PeaceByJesus
Unworthy servant for the Worthy Lord + Savior
- Feb 20, 2013
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The following is a "delayed transmission" due to being sidelined for a few days because of different forum posts, and with over 16'' of snow in this populous city I needed some time out anyway.
However, I intend this to be my last post you as do not think more should be needed in the light of what i have already said at length, by the grace of God.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
Paul could speak the word of God with power because he determined not to know any thing among the hearers, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified, (1 Corinthians 2:2) thus speaking not not enticing words of man's wisdom but preaching in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. The word of God itself is powerful, and will never return without fulfilling its purpose, whether for salvation or judgment, but when spoken by a man filled with the Spirit of God who spoke it then their can be a greater manifestation of this revelatory means expressing the heart of God and the condition of man before Him.
Thus as being the word of God, Paul's words were of supreme authority, and likewise his letters were said to be weighty and powerful. (2 Corinthians 10:10) As he also was in person when manifesting supernatural power such as in both healing and in discipline, but which is different than expressly revealing the Truth of God which enlightens the eyes and by which faith and progressive obedience is enabled.
Based on what Paul said was in demonstration here then without his words there would have been no revelatory demonstration of the Spirit and of power. while to set the latter against words would be another false dichotomy.
Thus when tested by Scripture your ongoing relationship with Mary and others is to be rejected, and reveals the danger of rejecting Scripture as the supreme standard.
In addition, we who are born again do indeed progressively grow in the knowledge of God via devout study of His inspired word, as God reveals His character, and will and ways therein, and He guides us by His Spirit in our everyday in obeying His word. Thus for instance, while God commands earnestly contending for the faith, the Lord can direct us to where we should.
But never having been truly born again usually means they have a low view of Scripture, is not being a the living and powerful word of God.
Which is another specious dichotomy. God and His pure express expression go together, as the Father and His Son, the express image of His person, also got together. In position, yes, as the God is the one sending His word, as the Father sent the Son.
Your exaltation of dreams and visions as supreme over the written word is too much akin to atheist's "golden compass" being superior, in rejection of the supreme objective standard for what is Truth.
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)
And they stood up in their place, and read in the book of the law of the Lord their God one fourth part of the day; and another fourth part they confessed, and worshipped the Lord their God. (Nehemiah 9:3)
And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Kings 22:10-11)
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalms 19:7-11)
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (2 Timothy 3:15)
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31)
And far from just to demonstrate the Spirit and the Power of God is some sort of miraculous way, they were also inspired of God as Divinely didactic, expressing God and His will and ways as the the author of 66 books.
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)
And BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. (Psalms 119:9)
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. (Psalms 119:11)
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. (Psalms 119:99)
Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way. (Psalms 119:127-128)
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:17)
A vision which you exalt, can also be revelatory, but Scripture far more comprehensive in scope and depth of overall revelation, and to which the validity of visions and preaching is subjected to testing by. Thus it is the supreme standard.
Now with about a foot of snow predicted it should be a busy day. Sorry I have not been as meek as 2 Timothy 2:25 calls for in the interest of conversion. Bye.
However, I intend this to be my last post you as do not think more should be needed in the light of what i have already said at length, by the grace of God.
Wrong: Read the text. His speech and preaching were not mere assistants, but they were in DEMONSTRATION of, the Spirit and of Power, demonstrating this.Patently false, unless your definition of the word "DEMONSTRATION" (above) disagrees with its English significance... Paul was simply and empirically describing his entire ministry as being this DEMONSTRATION of the Spirit and of Power (need I add "from on High"??)... Paul was NOT seeking to be this "manner of person"... Paul IS this manner of person - And even more so this day... "For to Live: God. To die, Gain." You know the place he wrote these words... So that his words were NOT some supreme authority, but adjuncts to the demonstration of the Spirit and of Power...
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
Paul could speak the word of God with power because he determined not to know any thing among the hearers, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified, (1 Corinthians 2:2) thus speaking not not enticing words of man's wisdom but preaching in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. The word of God itself is powerful, and will never return without fulfilling its purpose, whether for salvation or judgment, but when spoken by a man filled with the Spirit of God who spoke it then their can be a greater manifestation of this revelatory means expressing the heart of God and the condition of man before Him.
Thus as being the word of God, Paul's words were of supreme authority, and likewise his letters were said to be weighty and powerful. (2 Corinthians 10:10) As he also was in person when manifesting supernatural power such as in both healing and in discipline, but which is different than expressly revealing the Truth of God which enlightens the eyes and by which faith and progressive obedience is enabled.
Which is more misrepresentation. Where did i say Paul had elegance of words, or where does his speaking and preaching being in demonstration of the Spirit and of power mean elegance of words?Then you are at odds with the Scripture you cited from Paul who denies your claim as I demonstrated above... Paul did not have elegance of words...
Based on what Paul said was in demonstration here then without his words there would have been no revelatory demonstration of the Spirit and of power. while to set the latter against words would be another false dichotomy.
Certainly, but which is communicated, and both miracles and words must be subject to the test of Scripture so that we do not have Joe Smiths claiming to hear from God and getting away with it. The Lord and His apostles and writers etc. were not abundantly referencing Scripture as authoritative to fill space.The Ancient Faith of Christ has always and ever discipled this encounter with the Living God, and its transformative impact on the human person, and secondarily, on any local culture...
Which is just the type of thing i am talking about. You want to "know" the Blessed Virgin, but nowhere at all do we see believers praying to or otherwise developing an ongoing relationship with created beings in Heaven, as instead it is only and always with the Lord. And from what i recall, , two-way communication from created beings from each realm required both to somehow be in the same realm and was not that of asking intercession before God. Only pagans prayed to someone else in heaven and had an ongoing relationship with such.And besides: Who wants to know ABOUT God and Christ and Paul and the Blessed Virgin and the rest... I mean, knowing about them is a START... But I want to KNOW them, not merely know ABOUT them...
Thus when tested by Scripture your ongoing relationship with Mary and others is to be rejected, and reveals the danger of rejecting Scripture as the supreme standard.
In addition, we who are born again do indeed progressively grow in the knowledge of God via devout study of His inspired word, as God reveals His character, and will and ways therein, and He guides us by His Spirit in our everyday in obeying His word. Thus for instance, while God commands earnestly contending for the faith, the Lord can direct us to where we should.
But never having been truly born again usually means they have a low view of Scripture, is not being a the living and powerful word of God.
Your demeaning view of Scripture is consistent with your elevation of alternative specious esoteric visions. The word of God, which again, Scripture most assuredly is, is not of this world! "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven."(Psalms 119:89) Not is a second or third rate or superfluous authority. "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psalms 138:2)We are speaking of the unworldly Kingdom of Heaven into which we ENTER in a Mystery of the Faith of Jesus Christ which He discipled to His disciples... You are talking about arguing over a Book we wrote at God's behest from within this Kingdom...
Not in person, but the word of God is inseparable from God, it being an expression of Himself. To deny or demean the word of God is to do that to God. And Scripture is the assured word of God, versus what you hear in your dreams.All I said is that the written is not God,
..and that God is supreme over what He has caused to be written by His Holy Ones.
Which is another specious dichotomy. God and His pure express expression go together, as the Father and His Son, the express image of His person, also got together. In position, yes, as the God is the one sending His word, as the Father sent the Son.
Once again you resort to misrepresentation. I did not say God;'s word was over God Himself, nor is a vision of God. But both God and His pure expression go together, while His word is the only express comprehensive revelation, and Scripture is the wholly inspired preserved authoritative word, the supreme objective standard for what is of God, by which dreams and visions are tested God. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20)You call THAT marginalization?? I mean, OK - I guess from YOUR perspective of the supremacy of the written over God Himself, for Whom we wrote it, you can perhaps be right...
Your exaltation of dreams and visions as supreme over the written word is too much akin to atheist's "golden compass" being superior, in rejection of the supreme objective standard for what is Truth.
That seems nice to allow that, but how about,For us, it is a key feature of the Faith of Christ and the Services He prescribed for worshipping Him...
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)
And they stood up in their place, and read in the book of the law of the Lord their God one fourth part of the day; and another fourth part they confessed, and worshipped the Lord their God. (Nehemiah 9:3)
And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Kings 22:10-11)
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalms 19:7-11)
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (2 Timothy 3:15)
And just why do you think this is opposed to Scripture being the means for that? The two are not opposed despite your contrast recourse to this false dichotomy.And his discipling of the Cross of Christ in Power and the Spirit is unto purification of the heart in suffering and straits by which man can know God... As John wrote: "And this IS Life Eterenal: To KNOW the One true God..." That KNOWING GOD IS Salvation in the 2000 year old Orthodox Catholic Faith of Christ...
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31)
What arrogant disrepect! It is the living and powerful word of God you demean, and "used only?" Rather, his words, as said, themselves were said to be be weighty and powerful, (2 Corinthians 10:10) and which he was in person when manifesting supernatural power such as in both healing and in discipline but which is different than revealing the Truth of God which enlightens the eyes and whereby faith and progressive obedience is enabled.Which is pure balder-pucky - His words were crude and simple and used only to demonstrate the Spirit and the Power of God... I would not be surprised if he had a lisp...
And far from just to demonstrate the Spirit and the Power of God is some sort of miraculous way, they were also inspired of God as Divinely didactic, expressing God and His will and ways as the the author of 66 books.
And once again with your usual false dichotomies, you set this as opposed to knowing God and purity of heart by the enlightening word of God, which again, Scripture assuredly is.God is KNOWN only by and encounter with God, and Christ IS the Truth, and in that encounter, you will KNOW the Truth inasmuch as you possess purity of heart...I am telling you the Truth, my Brother...
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)
And BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. (Psalms 119:9)
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. (Psalms 119:11)
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. (Psalms 119:99)
Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold. Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way. (Psalms 119:127-128)
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:17)
Preaching the Cross, as seen from his letters, means preaching which that extends to, and is the normative means of enlightenment unto salvation and purity of heart, by the supernatural working of God's grace who opens the heart, and grants repentance, and gives faith.Paul preached the Cross of Christ, which is repentance unto purity of heart, where-in one even CAN come to encounter Christ-God to their betterment...
Which again is not that of a faith grounded in the assured word of God, the Scriptures, but appeals to esoteric knowledge, which is your apologetical recourse in order to justify Catholic distinctives which are not what we see manifest in the only wholly inspired and substantive record of what the NT church believed, even if not as far gone as Rome.The unrepentant Judas received Communion and got the Giver of that Communion siezed and crucified for 30 pieces of unrepentant silver...
Jean Val Jean was purchased for a pile of silver from the Gendarmes...
And found Salvation... Not a bad purchase...
We bring the Doctrine of Theosis, of the Divinization of the human being by God in the Mystery called Salvation - "Of God the Gift!" - To the western world... And it is more than amply attested in Scripture... Yet is unknown among most Christians we encounter here...
Which is simply a "no true Scotsman fallacy, that since I do not agree with you i must not be searching the Scriptures rightly, under the premise that all who do would agree with you. And as such your recourse in the light of reproof is ad hominem mind reading.IF you were a Berean, you would read the Scripture to see if what I bring is true... But instead, you look to Scripture knowing it is not, to find some way to deny what is true...
Meaning telling you like it is, exposing your sophistry.And you get a little wild in name calling and trashy words... No big..
Argumentum ad antiquitatem, since you like Latin. Antiquity does not make it right, unless antiquity is right, but the standard for correct antiquity is the only wholly inspired and substantive record of what the NT church believed, which does not manifest all your Catholic distinctives. Praying to every angel and saint in Heaven with your priests is not going to help that.But what I am showing to you is attested by two thousand years of the History of Christianity... Throughout all the Apostolic Churches...
Which means now you resort to a false charge while to be consistent then I can charge you with clinging to your exaltation of your church Bible as a substitute for God. Yet one cannot cling to God and not cling to the only wholly inspired substantive express revelation of Him. once know, which the veracity of church teaching is subject to.And you cling to your exaltation of the Bible as a substitute for God - in His Own Body on earth...
A vision which you exalt, can also be revelatory, but Scripture far more comprehensive in scope and depth of overall revelation, and to which the validity of visions and preaching is subjected to testing by. Thus it is the supreme standard.
What is it with your constant false dichotomies? Why must you make Scripture as being the supreme revelatory standard opposed their being a church?Do you really believe that Christ failed to establish His Body upon the earth?
Because nowhere is it promised that everything a church says will necessarily be of God, nor is oral transmission the most reliable means of long-term preservation, and God manifestly chose writing, as shown.And that only what His believers wrote is supreme?
No, the printing presses are not the ones who finally got it right, but the God who inspired the preaching and writing of His word got it right the first time, which does not mean the preachers/publishers of it always did so without error, and thus must be examined in the light of evidence. The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it. (Psalms 68:11)And that only the printing presses finally got it right, and then only when one could prove one's self right?
It is a failure in both doctrine and logic, both of which the Lord taught, and not reliance upon dreams and vision as a substitute for His word and the preservative writing of it. .So I'm sorry I failed you...
Please pray for me...
God Bless You...
Arsenios
Now with about a foot of snow predicted it should be a busy day. Sorry I have not been as meek as 2 Timothy 2:25 calls for in the interest of conversion. Bye.
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