Satanism and Freemasonry.

Doulosiesou · Jan 3, 2018

Albion said:
Fair enough. Personally, I consider that to be a non-issue since we all keep secrets all the time in other aspects of our daily lives and also, I don't find anything in Scripture that is critical of it. However, I can respect your thinking there, even if the "so called" secrets that you are referring to are similar to the internet passwords and Social Security numbers each of us keeps to ourselves.

Well there's this one

Luke 8:16 "Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed; but he puts it on a lampstand, so that those who come in may see the light.

And this:

Matt 10:27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

And this:

Luke 11:34-35 The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness. Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.

There are lots of others I'm too lazy to post them all.

Albion · Jan 3, 2018

Doulosiesou said:
Well there's this one

Luke 8:16 "Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed; but he puts it on a lampstand, so that those who come in may see the light.

And this:

Matt 10:27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

And this:

Luke 11:34-35 The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness. Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.

There are lots of others I'm too lazy to post them all.

Well, my reaction is that none of those actually addresses the point I made. Sure, it's good to let your light shine. That, in fact, is a cardinal principle of Masonry. But none of these is saying that absolutely nothing can be kept from the knowledge of other people, especially those who are intent upon deceit or harm.

And if we were to follow your line of thinking to the letter, there would be quite a few Christian churches (including those who criticize Masonry) who violate the principle! Consider the secrecy of the Confessional in Catholicism and some other churches, for example, according to which the priest is not allowed to reveal the sins confessed by any penitent, not even in criminal cases.

Doulosiesou · Jan 3, 2018

Albion said:
Well, my reaction is that none of those actually addresses the point I made. Sure, it's good to let your light shine. That, in fact, is a cardinal principle of Masonry. But none of these is saying that absolutely nothing can be kept from the knowledge of other people, especially those who are intent upon deceit or harm.

And if we were to follow your line of thinking to the letter, there would be quite a few Christian churches (including those who criticize Masonry) who violate the principle! Consider the secrecy of the Confessional in Catholicism and some other churches, for example, according to which the priest is not allowed to reveal the sins confessed by any penitent, not even in criminal cases.

Well personally I believe Christ came to do away with all priestly orders, including the order of
Melchizedek:

Heb 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

Christ said:

Matt 23:8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Christianity is not a means to an earthly hierarchical structure like governments, it is a way of life.

https://www.startpage.com/do/search...&no_sugg=1&ff=&nj=0&hmb=1&engine0=v1all&abp=1

Albion · Jan 3, 2018

Doulosiesou said:
Well personally I believe Christ came to do away with all priestly orders, including the order of
Melchizedek:

Heb 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

Christ said:

Matt 23:8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

That's informative--as regards your personal religious convictions--but it doesn't do a thing to change what's been said so far about secrecy.

Doulosiesou · Jan 3, 2018

Albion said:
That's informative--as regards your personal religious convictions--but it doesn't do a thing to change what's been said so far about secrecy.

Hmm well since you didn't accept the passages I note above, let's just talk about logic. Secrecy requires energy input, to maintain secrecy you have to expend energy. Secrecy isn't necessary, therefore it's a waste of energy.

americanvet · Jan 6, 2018

Prov 11:13 - A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.

Prov 25:9 - Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another

Prov 12:23 - he prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool’s heart blurts out folly.

Matthew 16:19-20 And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Then he sternly warned the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Matthew 9:28-30 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

I believe the Bible and Christ that it is ok to keep secrets.

Rick Otto · Jan 8, 2018

americanvet said:
Prov 11:13 - A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.

Prov 25:9 - Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another

Prov 12:23 - he prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool’s heart blurts out folly.

Matthew 16:19-20 And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Then he sternly warned the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Matthew 9:28-30 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

I believe the Bible and Christ that it is ok to keep secrets.

Of course it is.
Different context, though.

JM · Jan 8, 2018

Everyone keeps secrets. What is said between brothers may not be for everyone's ears.

Rick Otto · Jan 8, 2018

JM said:
Everyone keeps secrets. What is said between brothers may not be for everyone's ears.

Do they swear to disembowel each other if they tell?
See how easily we equate apples and oranges?

americanvet · Jan 9, 2018

Rick Otto said:
Do they swear to disembowel each other if they tell?
See how easily we equate apples and oranges?

I'd never belong to an organization that made you swear to disembowel others. I'm glad the Masonic Lodge doesn't do that.

Rick Otto · Jan 9, 2018

americanvet said:
I'd never belong to an organization that made you swear to disembowel others. I'm glad the Masonic Lodge doesn't do that.

Me neither. One reason I didn't join the Masons.

JM · Jan 9, 2018

Rick Otto said:
Do they swear to disembowel each other if they tell?
See how easily we equate apples and oranges?

lol How do you know so much Otto, are you shill working for the Illuminati? lol

JM · Jan 9, 2018

americanvet said:
I'd never belong to an organization that made you swear to disembowel others. I'm glad the Masonic Lodge doesn't do that.

I think he missed it.

Rick Otto · Jan 9, 2018

JM said:
lol How do you know so much Otto, are you shill working for the Illuminati? lol

Thank you for asking.
I simply don't always believe what I'm told to, even if the person telling me really believes it. I kind of learned that from the Santa Clause lie.
I like to look at the preponderance of circumstantial evidence rather than to dismiss or think I debunked an entire topic just because I found a contradictory fact.
And level of commitment to truth figures in as well.
I am willing to accept financial loss and social ostracism in pursuit of truth. Most people won't pursue truth past their own comfort zone.

Rick Otto · Jan 9, 2018

JM said:
I think he missed it.

I answered in kind. Look again.
Then reference Proverbs 26:5

Rick Otto · Jan 9, 2018

americanvet said:
Prov 11:13 - A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.

Prov 25:9 - Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another

Prov 12:23 - he prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool’s heart blurts out folly.

Matthew 16:19-20 And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Then he sternly warned the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Matthew 9:28-30 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

I believe the Bible and Christ that it is ok to keep secrets.

Lol,... I don't condemn keeping secrets per se. And I could easily find passages against secrets and oaths...
Bottom line though, is motive and discernment.

JM · Jan 10, 2018

Rick Otto said:
Thank you for asking.
I simply don't always believe what I'm told to, even if the person telling me really believes it. I kind of learned that from the Santa Clause lie.
I like to look at the preponderance of circumstantial evidence rather than to dismiss or think I debunked an entire topic just because I found a contradictory fact.
And level of commitment to truth figures in as well.
I am willing to accept financial loss and social ostracism in pursuit of truth. Most people won't pursue truth past their own comfort zone.

Yup, I've stumbled into an argument between Freemasons and the Illuminati. You guys bickering over membership or something?

Rick Otto · Jan 10, 2018

JM said:
Yup, I've stumbled into an argument between Freemasons and the Illuminati. You guys bickering over membership or something?

Just the usual - domination and control because after all ego knows best, right?

...It seems like you want to actually discuss, learn and share but you keep it at a distance with your sense of humor.
I do that some.

JM · Jan 10, 2018

I'm just curious. I enjoy conspiracy theories and get a kick out of them.

My great grandfather was a Freemason, a member of the Orange Order and a devout Presbyterian. He fought in the Great War and World War 2 along with all three of his sons, two of which were underage when enlisted and captured by the Germans. I find the whole 'world domination' and 'satanism' thing odd, especially knowing the legacy of faith and service my great grandfather left my family - it seems out of step and character.

But you never know!

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Rick Otto · Jan 10, 2018

JM said:
I'm just curious. I enjoy conspiracy theories and get a kick out of them.

My great grandfather was a Freemason, a member of the Orange Order and a devout Presbyterian. He fought in the Great War and World War 2 along with all three of his sons, two of which were underage when enlisted and captured by the Germans. I find the whole 'world domination' and 'satanism' thing odd, especially knowing the legacy of faith and service my great grandfather left my family - it seems out of step and character.

But you never know!

Yours in the Lord,

jm

And sometimes we do know.
Thing is, if you're not serious about the subject it's easy to misunderstand what's being said.
The oaths are on all levels but the lower levels are not knowingly initiated into the globalist conspiracy. The good people on the lower levels are protective covering for bad guys on top who do know the plan.

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