The second beast, the image of the first, and the mark.

Yanni depp said:

What is the image if the beast that is brought to life? My best guess, is that the image of the beast that is given the power to talk and kill those unwilling to worship, would be a form of artificially intelligent robots that are brought to sentience. Killing those who will not worship (did i mention the AI Church thats starting up?) And then forcing the rfid chip as the mark.

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I try to keep an open mind when interpreting prophecy. It could be AI. It could be an otherwise inanimate object brought to animation by a supernatural force. It could be just an "image," and that could take on several kinds of form.

As for the RFID chip problem, I tend not to agree with that notion. The mark is described as a mark, his name, or the number of his name. That gives three possibilities, not all of which are necessarily numbers. If all three are just three different ways of describing the same thing, then the number must be his name in some way. Even so, the number is 666, which means that we're not dealing with a serial number to be used to identify individuals, because that would have to be different for each person (the number stored in the RFID). Some have argued that 666 would be incorporated into the number, but, again, it would not be the serial number that was the mark, but a separate component added to it. That means an RFID as an identifier is not the mark. It would have to be an RFID with a component that was the same for everyone. This begs the question as to why it would need to be an RFID at all. A tattoo, or other visible mark, would be just as likely, and it would be easier to see, which would make it easier for people to use for discrimination. This doesn't mean that it can't be RFID; it just means that there's no special reason for it to be that.

Yanni depp said:

If you disagree, thats fine, but im interested in how you would interpret these symbols, whichever way you slice it.

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The evil beasts are images in Scripture that often signify the carnal (fleshly), beastly, dangerous nature of man. It is sometimes used to signify evil Kingdoms or wicked carnal individuals. Even King David considered himself as beast:

Psalms 73:22

• "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."

Of course, David is not saying he is a literal beast, but he was "AS" a beast, but in what way? It is my position that beasts are often used in Scripture to signify the animalistic flesh driven nature of man. Without Christ, man is a creature or beast without conscience or wisdom, and like a beast. David was foolish to God with his decisions or sins. The beast is often used to represent kingdoms or individuals as a token of those who live by the flesh (carnal nature) rather than the Spirit. I also believe that Revelation chapter 13 uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets who he empowers to devour. I will explain a little about Revealtion 13 to give you some general ideas where I come from:

Revelation 13:1-2

• "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
• And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

Without going into too much detail, the sea often used in Scripture as a synonym for the deep, bottomless pit or abyss, the spiritual place where this evil spirit resides ready to be loosed upon man at any moment. The first beast is the body of the antichrist (his kingdom) that was wounded at Christ's death and resurrection. The heads in Scripture often signify authority, and the number 7 is the perfect number of completeness. Thus I believe that the 7 heads represent Satan's authority to rule as the prince of this world throughout time (7 mountains = 7 kingdoms). Horns in Scripture often signify the power of whatever is in view, as the horn that was broken in Daniel (meaning his power was broken). The number 10 signifies the fullness of whatever is in view. In this instance, the 10 horns signify Satan's "power" over men to rule for the fullness of this short period of time near the time of the end of the world. The fullness and rule of this period are also spoken of in Scripture as one hour. Thus these 10 horns rule (as kings) with the beast kingdom one hour. And their crowns again illustrate they reign with him. For example, crowns are for kings.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

This also shows clearly that the first beast (with these 10 horns) spans the completeness (7) of time, and near the end of this time (the 1 hour of God's judgment) when the church becomes spiritually Babylon, these 10 kings will reign with him for this short period (little season KJV) after Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit. The wound that was healed was the power of Satan to deceive the nations, which was before taken away (when Satan was bound) by Christ. At this time when Satan is loosed (the would healed), he again goes out to gather together and deceive the nations to bring them up against the camp of the saints.

Revelation 13:3

• "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Christ, of course, wounded Satan by the cross, and also looses or heals that wound, AFTER ALL Israel are sealed (Revelation 7:1-4), so that He might bring judgment upon the unfaithful (spiritual harlot) church.

Revelation 13:4-5

• "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
• And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

Under the authority of Satan, these kings rule and go to make war against the camp of the saints (the church), it is judged of God for its abominations, after which is the return of Christ on the clouds of glory. Christ was in complete control. He wounds and Christ heals that wound to serve His purpose for the Church, to the glory of God.

Psalms 68:20-22

• "He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
• But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
• The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:"

Compare Revelation 17:8,11 of, "the beast that was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit." In other words, this is the Beast, this is the power of Satan as he brought Old Testament congregation of Israel into apostasy, as Christ defeated him at the Cross, and as he again ascends out of the bottomless pit to attack the church. Just as a ravenous beast would attack the sheep in a fold, so Satan comes as an adversary of the house of God. He was because He ruled before Christ bound him. He is not because Christ bound Him. And He ascends out of the Pit because Christ loses him.

And the ability to bring God's external church down was bound or restrained by Christ's binding Satan over 2000 years ago, but his loosing after the millennial reign allows this judgment, even as Israel was judged. Thus the Gentile New Testament congregation is no better than the Jewish Old Testament congregation. Apostasy knows no bounds. The blasphemies that he speaks is his false teachings and contradictions forsaking the Word of God. These are the great things he speaks that deceive and which Revelation 13 talks about.

Revelation 13:6-7

• "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
• And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Same as Revelation 20 when Satan is loosed from the Pit to make war with the saints.

Revelation 13:8-9

• "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
• If any man have an ear, let him hear."

All of those who are NOT sealed of God in Israel worship the carnal, Pseudo or Antichrist instead of God. He has deceived them so that they serve him, thinking they do God service.

Revelation 13:10-11

• "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
• And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

John sees another vision of a beast coming up from the earth. The earth signifies they come up from the world, and this beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon. This beast represents the false christs and prophets. Why? They come looking like they have the power of the messenger of light (Remember, the horns signify power, the number two signifies the truthful witness of the church), but what gives them away is that they, through their doctrines, speak as the Dragon, which is Satan. In other words, they appear as a messenger of light, but their gospel is false and of the adversary Satan.

Now, the first beast, who the false prophets cause men to worship, represents the antichrist, or more to the point Satan's substitute kingdom. It is the body of false worshipers. Revelation is written this way because just as the true church is represented by the body of Christ, and the Old Testament congregation by the body of Moses, the false congregation is seen as the body of the anti (substitute) or false Christ. The false prophets are those who cause the unfaithful to depart from Scripture and worship Him. All Israel who are not sealed unto the day of redemption.

Revelation 13:12-14

• "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
• And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
• And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

The deadly wound was given the beast who is to be worshiped at the cross. Christ dealt the adversary a death wound so that he could not deceive the nations (so that the church could be built), but at this time Satan is loosed from his prison. This is spoken of as the deadly wound being healed, and the reason is so that the unfaithful people of the world might again serve him (as for judgment). The false prophets, the second beast, deceive these unfaithful people and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs and wonders. Remember, Christ was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that He is loosed, his false prophets again deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 13:15-16

• " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
• And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

The false prophets give life to the likeness of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the church and causing all the faithful therein (the two witnesses) to be killed (silenced). Those remaining as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their right hand (not literally as some suppose, but spiritually) signifying their will belongs to them, and in their forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies these unsealed are slaves to the antichrist.

Revelation 13:17-18

• "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
• Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Not the number of "a" man as may be written in your "translation," but the original says it is the number "of Man," signifying the lawless man (man of sin) or man of lawlessness. The buying and selling signify the work of the church, and no one can work there except those who have been spiritually marked slaves of Satan. The mark God tells us is 666, the number of man (not a man).

ewq1938 said:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

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It is because you believe that Revelation 13 beast is a man, not the body of carnal kingdom making up of false prophets and christs as I explained previously.

The beasts are spiritually speaking Satan's body, just as those of the Spirit of Christ is Christ's body. The beast represents Satan's kingdom, Satan's children, Satan's ministers. Satan personified in his kingdom. The Dragon (Satan himself) gives the beast its power (Revelation 13:4) signifying Satan gives the false prophets and christs their strength! Not to a single man. Just as the four beasts in Revelation 4:6 (more literally, four living creatures) are a figure or representation of the body of Christ, the spiritual Kingdom of the God of heaven. A body making up of, not one Christian man, but many! The Lamb (God Himself) gives it its power. Same thing! We see in these cryptic images the figures of the true Christ Kingdom versus the figure of the anti or substitute or pseudo Christ Kingdom. Satan the adversary, is a kingdom of darkness masquerading as a kingdom of light, and it has been going forth killing the prophets of God.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

I try to keep an open mind when interpreting prophecy. It could be AI. It could be an otherwise inanimate object brought to animation by a supernatural force. It could be just an "image," and that could take on several kinds of form.

As for the RFID chip problem, I tend not to agree with that notion. The mark is described as a mark, his name, or the number of his name. That gives three possibilities, not all of which are necessarily numbers. If all three are just three different ways of describing the same thing, then the number must be his name in some way. Even so, the number is 666, which means that we're not dealing with a serial number to be used to identify individuals, because that would have to be different for each person (the number stored in the RFID). Some have argued that 666 would be incorporated into the number, but, again, it would not be the serial number that was the mark, but a separate component added to it. That means an RFID as an identifier is not the mark. It would have to be an RFID with a component that was the same for everyone. This begs the question as to why it would need to be an RFID at all. A tattoo, or other visible mark, would be just as likely, and it would be easier to see, which would make it easier for people to use for discrimination. This doesn't mean that it can't be RFID; it just means that there's no special reason for it to be that.

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The RFID was the first technology that could accommodate and fulfill the scripture in this regard which is why it has such popularity as being the mark and it is also implemented in a microdot methodology. But just a mobile phone used to be a monstrous size device that had a collapsing antenna and only capable of limited range phone calls ; we now have a much more advanced cell phone device that can connect to anywhere and is not just a phone but a camera and computer , GPS device capable of texting and email that fits in your pocket. So we are at the beginning of what technology can be regarding the 'mark ' required to buy and sell things , Now that AI is getting much more attention and advancement to be interconnect with every iOT device that will make much greater use of IPv6 protocol and 5G is being introduced - we will see a quantum leap forward in this arena .

In order to know what the mark is (or to even have a clue) we first need to know what the beast is,and I think tribulationsigns is on the right track by saying it is the sinful nature of man.

The sinful nature of man has existed since Adam was removed from Eden , the mark is pertaining to the ability/permission to buy or sell anything ., It is on the body to identify who a person has pledged allegiance to -as in submitting their life unto in such a way that God has declared anyone who has done this has given up all chances to spend eternity with Him- this is way far more than just some symbolic symbolism

Don't we sorta have to go through the whole 7 Trumpets Before the MOB is even an issue?

LastSeven said:

In order to know what the mark is (or to even have a clue) we first need to know what the beast is,and I think tribulationsigns is on the right track by saying it is the sinful nature of man.

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Exactly right.

You are one of many people have been trying to figure out what the mark of the beast meant, and what was the significance of the number six hundred threescore and six. Let me tell you something... how about we forget debit cards, the Pope's address, the numeric equivalents of Greek letters, a new one world government, computer chips under the skin, magnetic scans in the forehead, Hebrew numerology, cell phones with Amazon app, etc. etc. and get our interpretation from...


Not YouTube. Not televandalists' books. Not National Geography. Selah!

Now in Revelation 13:16 we see that this beast causes all to receive the mark of his name. And no, this beast is not one world leader or a single man. Rather a body of Satan making up of false christs and prophets preaching lies in the church. However, verse 17 assures us that this "all" is qualified. In other words, it's not everyone in the world as most believe, but it is everyone that will "buy and sell" at this time. Only the buyers and sellers will receive this mark of the beast. Buy and sell what, exactly? See, the buyers and sellers depicted are not literal merchants and purchasers, rather this is symbolic of those merchants of the church. These will not be able to practice their trade in the church except they are marked of the beast. Revelation is a book of symbolism, and to take this buying and selling literally would be just as much a mistake as taking the beast who gives the mark literally.

Revelation 3:17-19

• "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
• I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
• As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

Christ did not ask you to buy a literal gold. Christ was warning the messenger of the church of Laodicea in "symbolic" terms to be a faithful "merchant" of spiritual things, and "buy of Him" Gold tried in the fire, Gold that would not corrupt, Gold that thieves would not seek to break through and steal, Gold that would be more precious than any literal merchant could ever obtain!! And it affects your souls! He is told to be the merchant of these precious "spiritual" things, and he is rebuked and chastened for not doing this. This messenger of Laodoicea thought that he was rich and had need of nothing because of his literal wealth, but God did not say that! He is declaring that "spiritually speaking", he was spiritually poor and blind and naked, just as Babylon the Great will be found to be spiritually naked by the ten horns (more on that later). For the Merchant that Christ had in view was the spiritual merchant of the church, the earthly representation of the Kingdom of God. The one who was seeking to buy and sell precious things far more valuable than literal gold, wonder bread, or ribeye steaks:

Matthew 13:45-46

• "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
• Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

The Kingdom of heaven is likened unto a merchant man. This is the symbolism of God's congregation going forth. At this time depicted in Revelation 13, no one will be able to be these merchants in the church except the buyers and sellers. Those who will not worship the 'image' of the beast, we read these are all killed. These are those who will not be deceived by the false prophets with their lying signs and wonders (false doctrines) and who will not receive the mark of Satan's name to buy and sell in the Lord's house. Remember when Christ threw buyers and sellers out of God's House as an example. God is not talking about the mark taking place in the world, but rather His House. That is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church prior to Second Coming. So it's important that we understand that the symbolism here is that no one can buy and sell "except" those who receive the mark of the beast. In other words, professed Christians will buy or sell whatever comes out of the mouths of false prophets/christs so they will believe a lie. Any true Christians who claim that it is a false doctrine will be considered as unloving, uncompassion, or judgmentative will be killed (their truthful testimony being silenced in church -not physically killed.

Think about this... if some police or solider captured and temporarily sedative you so they put the mark on your right hand or on your forehead against your will. Will this automatically mean you are no longer saved? Of course not, that's absurd. God is not talking about the physical mark of the beast here!

A spiritual mark is much more dangerous than you think and it does deceive many... TODAY! Right in the church where false prophets and christs (beast) rules.

Something to think about.

Deleted. Duplication

Yanni depp said:

In another thread it was an opinion of some that the rfid chip shown as the mark of the beast was simply fantasy and fearmongering.

So im curious what you think this means, regardless of your disagreements or interpretations, im happy to hear everyone.

The second beast causes fire to come down from heaven, forces people to make images of the first beast, then gives breathe to the image of the first beast so that it may talk. And the image has the power to slay those who will not worship it. And eventually causes everyone to recieve the mark.

What is the image if the beast that is brought to life? My best guess, is that the image of the beast that is given the power to talk and kill those unwilling to worship, would be a form of artificially intelligent robots that are brought to sentience. Killing those who will not worship (did i mention the AI Church thats starting up?) And then forcing the rfid chip as the mark.

If you disagree, thats fine, but im interested in how you would interpret these symbols, whichever way you slice it.

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As I see it, there is the king of the North (ancient Babylon) (UN logo is from the Northern pole view) and the King of the South (ancient Egypt) (as propaganda seems to indicate, will be Australia led by Prince Harry).

the RFID mark of the beast is in relation to the king of the South:
Isaiah 36:6 Behold, you are trusting in Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of any man who leans on it. Such is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him.

that verse in relation to Judah allying itself with Egypt so as to survive the an attack by Babylon. In other words, the way the end times are constructed, Babylon enforces statue worship (a la Daniel 2) (in the modern context, probably the United Nations), but Egypt pretends to be the false alternate choice to this system (just like whether one votes Democrat or Republican, both are evil - Satan will get people coming or going).

the crux of the issue being: within the beast from the sea - they worship their own mortally head wounded leader. within the beast from the earth system - they worship an image of the sea's leader. For example: Republicans would be happy to worship Trump if the dreaded Muslim terrorists ruin the American way of life, but Democrats hate Trump... so, in a civil war type scenario with Republicans & Democrats, Democrats would get an AI Trump robot (that has transcended his human foibles) and a transhumanist agenda.

in essence, there are 2 marks of the beast (beast from the sea & beast from the earth) and they mean different things to each group. To the beast from the sea kingdom, the people of the earth kingdom 'took the mark of the beast' (RFID), but 'we have taken the mark of God'.

tranquil said:

As I see it, there is the king of the North (ancient Babylon) (UN logo is from the Northern pole view) and the King of the South (ancient Egypt) (as propaganda seems to indicate, will be Australia led by Prince Harry).

the RFID mark of the beast is in relation to the king of the South:
Isaiah 36:6 Behold, you are trusting in Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of any man who leans on it. Such is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him.

that verse in relation to Judah allying itself with Egypt so as to survive the an attack by Babylon. In other words, the way the end times are constructed, Babylon enforces statue worship (a la Daniel 2) (in the modern context, probably the United Nations), but Egypt pretends to be the false alternate choice to this system (just like whether one votes Democrat or Republican, both are evil - Satan will get people coming or going).

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That is a really bad private interpretation that you had to come up with United Nations and Egypt. Isaiah 36:6 has nothing to do with the mark of the beast.

TribulationSigns said:

That is a really bad private interpretation that you had to come up with United Nations and Egypt. Isaiah 36:6 has nothing to do with the mark of the beast.

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the Isaiah 36:6 verse is the exact same as this verse from 2 Kings 18:24

How then wilt thou turn away the face of one captain of the least of my master's servants, and put thy trust on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen?

from the passage

19And the Rabshakeh said to them, “Say to Hezekiah, ‘Thus says the great king, the king of Assyria: On what do you rest this trust of yours? 20Do you think that mere words are strategy and power for war? In whom do you now trust, that you have rebelled against me? 21Behold, you are trusting now in Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of any man who leans on it. Such is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him. 22But if you say to me, “We trust in the Lord our God,” is it not he whose high places and altars Hezekiah has removed, saying to Judah and to Jerusalem, “You shall worship before this altar in Jerusalem”? 23Come now, make a wager with my master the king of Assyria: I will give you two thousand horses, if you are able on your part to set riders on them. 24How then can you repulse a single captain among the least of my master’s servants, when you trust in Egypt for chariots and for horsemen?

Isaiah 36
4 And the Rabshakeh said to them, “Say to Hezekiah, ‘Thus says the great king, the king of Assyria: On what do you rest this trust of yours? 5 Do you think that mere words are strategy and power for war? In whom do you now trust, that you have rebelled against me? 6 Behold, you are trusting in Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of any man who leans on it. Such is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him. 7 But if you say to me, “We trust in the Lord our God,” is it not he whose high places and altars Hezekiah has removed, saying to Judah and to Jerusalem, “You shall worship before this altar”? 8 Come now, make a wager with my master the king of Assyria: I will give you two thousand horses, if you are able on your part to set riders on them. 9 How then can you repulse a single captain among the least of my master's servants, when you trust in Egypt for chariots and for horsemen?

Horsemen in the 2 Kings 18 version has a gematria of 666: ולפרשים
Full Text Hebrew/Greek Bible Gematria Database

so please, enlighten me some more about the matter!

seventysevens said:

The sinful nature of man has existed since Adam was removed from Eden

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Exactly. Which means the mark of the beast has also been around since Adam and Eve.

seventysevens said:

the mark is pertaining to the ability/permission to buy or sell anything

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That could be symbolic for something. I don't know what.

seventysevens said:

It is on the body to identify who a person has pledged allegiance

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It doesn't say that.

seventysevens said:

as in submitting their life unto in such a way that God has declared anyone who has done this has given up all chances to spend eternity with Him- this is way far more than just some symbolic symbolism

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See, this is where your line of thinking totally falls apart. Your line of thinking would require that there are two ways to be damned. One, reject Christ or two, take the mark.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if they were both the same thing? In other words, if rejecting Christ = taking the mark? Or put yet another way, "taking the mark" is merely poetic language to describe people who've rejected Christ.

tranquil said:

the Isaiah 36:6 verse is the exact same as this verse from 2 Kings 18:24

How then wilt thou turn away the face of one captain of the least of my master's servants, and put thy trust on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen?

Horsemen in the 2 Kings 18 version has a gematria of 666: ולפרשים
Full Text Hebrew/Greek Bible Gematria Database

so please, enlighten me some more about the matter!

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Misapplication of Scripture. What does this have to do with OP about the Image of the Beast? Your point is??