God curses Christians

GirdYourLoins said:

EDIT: I have removed most of my personal circumtances as I want this to be a theological discussion based on scripture. It is posted in controversal theology for this reason. I am not after advice that I already know. I am not after sympathy.

I am after sound biblical doctrine why this would not apply to Christians.

My reason for saying this is that I have seen it in my life and the lives of other Christians. The reason I believe it can only be a curse from God is because the bible clearly states god will curse people in Exodus 20:5. I have been taught that this doesnt apply to Christians but believe that would make God a liar. I have seen this in my life and situation in other Christians lives that Christians cant explain with their theology that God blesses Christians that could be explained by this verse being applied.

My evidence of it was when I was a teenager I started going to a Christian youth group with a friend and my dad said he did not want me to go to a Christian thing. He said he hated God and when he was saying it he had the most hateful contorted vile look I ever saw on his face (and he often had a hateful look on his face when he beat me up) and spit coming out of his mouth as he said it.

In responding, I would like any scripture that shows that this does not apply to be included. As it is a very specific situation in response to someone hating God the scriptures would need to show this. And if possible, how to break the curse nd move into Gods blessing. I have been a Christian for about 20 years by the way.

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Hi this is not a curse but really a truth that is not a law. You see sins like alcohol abuse and incest tend to be repeated by many who grew up in homes where this tool place and often lasting many generation of repeated behavior. The Bible says if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation and old things are passed away. If you look at the book of kings it records the king when his dad died and how old he was when he took the throne. It records if walked in the ways of the LORD and then compares if he followed the path of his father too. Many times there are a few wicked kings in a row and then one rises up and breaks the chain. We are all free to make our choices but the fact is many of our choices will effect the generations to follow. We cannot control the past but are given every promise and the power of the Holy Spirit to live Godly lives and overcome whatever proceeded us to this point. God bless.

GirdYourLoins said:

My first question when reading your reply is how are you able to see and quote something I edited out not long after writing this?

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I started writing my reply about 5 minutes after you posted the thread, so when I clicked "reply", it quoted everything you had written.
It took me ages to finish my post; I kept stopping to think and look up Scripture. So when I posted it about 12 other people had already replied.

GirdYourLoins said:

Just to clarify, your last comment is wrong, I never said God hated me or anyone else.

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I didn't say that you did. But you listed a whole string of events as "evidence" that God was cursing you - for someone to curse someone else, it suggests that they dislike, or are annoyed with, the person they wish to curse.

GirdYourLoins said:

While I appreciate your input, I would like to concentrate on one thing. The verse I quoted says God curses those that hate Him to the third and fourth generation. What I am looking for is a biblical argument that this does not apply to believers.

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Firstly, that's all very well, but I didn't know that when I spent over an hour this morning responding to all the circumstances and personal details that you had posted.
Secondly, I have told you;
a) you quoted ONE verse - you can't make a doctrine from, or base a belief on, one verse.
b) that verse was from the Old Testament.
c) it was written to Israelites at a certain time - not to Christian believers who know Jesus. Even in the OT, there is no evidence that God curses believers.
d) I quoted a number of verses, and there are many more, which show God's love and that Christ died for sinners.
e) it is clear in the NT that everyone is responsible for their own sin, the way they live their lives, how they use their gifts and whether or not they respond to God in the first place. A person cannot now say "oh, I had bad luck; not my fault, it was my father's sin".
f) even if God had said to you as a baby, "you are cursed because your parents are unbelievers", Jesus broke the curse of sin when he went to the cross. If you believe in him, have accepted him and trust in him, he has saved you. He also said, "if the Son sets you free you are free indeed", John 8:36.

I would also say that another answer is in the verse you quoted; that verse says "those who hate God". If you are a Christian, and have been for 20 years, while you may be cross with God, and not understand him, it doesn't sound like you hate him.
In Scripture, "hate" doesn't always mean what we believe it to mean either.

mozo41 said:

"Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"

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Indeed Jesus Christ took every curse we deserve on His shoulders.

GirdYourLoins said:

EDIT: I have removed most of my personal circumtances as I want this to be a theological discussion based on scripture. It is posted in controversal theology for this reason. I am not after advice that I already know. I am not after sympathy.

I am after sound biblical doctrine why this would not apply to Christians.

My reason for saying this is that I have seen it in my life and the lives of other Christians. The reason I believe it can only be a curse from God is because the bible clearly states god will curse people in Exodus 20:5. I have been taught that this doesnt apply to Christians but believe that would make God a liar. I have seen this in my life and situation in other Christians lives that Christians cant explain with their theology that God blesses Christians that could be explained by this verse being applied.

My evidence of it was when I was a teenager I started going to a Christian youth group with a friend and my dad said he did not want me to go to a Christian thing. He said he hated God and when he was saying it he had the most hateful contorted vile look I ever saw on his face (and he often had a hateful look on his face when he beat me up) and spit coming out of his mouth as he said it.

In responding, I would like any scripture that shows that this does not apply to be included. As it is a very specific situation in response to someone hating God the scriptures would need to show this. And if possible, how to break the curse nd move into Gods blessing. I have been a Christian for about 20 years by the way.

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God does not curse His people, He chastises them Hebrews 12:6
If you feel God has cursed you, and you are a child of God, you ain’t cursed, He’s teaching you something. This, we have all experienced.

I’m going to tell you a story of a Christian woman that was born blind. The woman became a popular and well known amongst her piers. She always thanked God for everything she had, has, went through, lost, mourned etc.
One day an unbelieving work colleague asked her, “why do you give thanks to God, even though He allowed you to be born blind? You can’t see anything in the world, to me God had taken away from you, not blessed you”
Her response was,
“God did not curse me, yes I cannot see anything, but when I do go to heaven and I gain my eyesight, the first thing I will ever see in my life, will be His face. God has not cursed me, He has blessed me with that privilege.”

We need to understand that this world was never Gods plan for us, we sinned and caused this ourselves.
Another point I want to mention is that God does not listen or interact with sinners. (Unbelievers) The only time He will listen to is your repenting heart and acceptance of His Son.
He interacts with those who are His (accepted Jesus and walk accordingly) by loving, giving peace, joy, allowing us to make mistakes, comforts, humbles when our heads get to big, raises us when we’re humble, and chastises us.

None of us like humble pie and
None of us like being chastised, but rest assured and I promise you this, If you accepted Gods gift (Jesus) and are walking in faith accordingly, He is not cursing you, He’s teaching you.
The only curse we now have from God is rejecting the One He sent (Jesus)
And that’s not a curse in my eyes, it’s a pity and inevitably your worst nightmare x 1,000,000

Be humble in your time of trials and give God the thanks regardless how much your hurting or feeling cursed. It’s His very nature to lift us high, when we put ourselves down as low as you can go.
Relax, Gods in control
God Bless
Jonathan

redleghunter said:

Indeed Jesus Christ took every curse we deserve on His shoulders.

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knowledge being the necessary serpent in the coming to the truth of who/where we are ...

GirdYourLoins said:

Thank you all for your replies. First of all I should confess that I put a deliberately contentious title and OP to promote discussion. I usually try to be nice and only get a few responses. I have been a Christian for many years and have a good relationship with God.

I wanted to ask a very specific question about a very specific situation. Not many people have actually addressed it but your views on how to answer it are still appreciated. For example condemned and cursed are different things. Condemned is found guilty, cursed is in this context ill-fated.

I will add another question; have you ever experienced someone saying they hate God with such venom that you are left in no doubt it is true?

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their is GOD and then there is the perception of GOD ... one can not serve two masters ...

I think the difference between a “curse” and a “blessing” is all in the
narrative one chooses to apply to the situation.

Is it a “curse”? Is it a “kindness”?
Perspective is, indeed, everything.

And if I insist on seeing all that comes to me as a blessing, what will be the
point of God attempting to “curse” me? I’m busy “blessing those who curse
me”, including blessing Him.


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Brian Mcnamee said:

Hi this is not a curse but really a truth that is not a law. You see sins like alcohol abuse and incest tend to be repeated by many who grew up in homes where this tool place and often lasting many generation of repeated behavior. The Bible says if anyone is in Chris he is a new creation and old things are passed away. If you look at the book of kings it records the king when his dad died and how old he was when he took the throne. It records if walked in the ways of the LORD and then compares if he followed the path of his father too. Many times there are a few wicked kings in a row and then one rises up and breaks the chain. We are all free to make our choices but the fact is many of our choices will effect the generations to follow. We cannot control the past but are given every promise and the power of the Holy Spirit to live Godly lives and overcome whatever proceeded us to this point. God bless.

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I used to blame my parents for my failures. Only when I accepted responsibility for my own actions and started to succeed did I have a better chance to appreciate the good things my parents had done for me.

GirdYourLoins said:

EDIT: I have removed most of my personal circumtances as I want this to be a theological discussion based on scripture. It is posted in controversal theology for this reason. I am not after advice that I already know. I am not after sympathy.

I am after sound biblical doctrine why this would not apply to Christians.

My reason for saying this is that I have seen it in my life and the lives of other Christians. The reason I believe it can only be a curse from God is because the bible clearly states god will curse people in Exodus 20:5. I have been taught that this doesnt apply to Christians but believe that would make God a liar. I have seen this in my life and situation in other Christians lives that Christians cant explain with their theology that God blesses Christians that could be explained by this verse being applied.

My evidence of it was when I was a teenager I started going to a Christian youth group with a friend and my dad said he did not want me to go to a Christian thing. He said he hated God and when he was saying it he had the most hateful contorted vile look I ever saw on his face (and he often had a hateful look on his face when he beat me up) and spit coming out of his mouth as he said it.

In responding, I would like any scripture that shows that this does not apply to be included. As it is a very specific situation in response to someone hating God the scriptures would need to show this. And if possible, how to break the curse nd move into Gods blessing. I have been a Christian for about 20 years by the way.

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I wouldn't focus on curses especially ones from God. Don't see things that aren't there, just ignore it and live your life. If God curses you then ignore it and be tough. That's what God wants, because technically curses come from Satan in the bible, like in Jude. That's my personal beliefs.

GirdYourLoins said:

EDIT: I have removed most of my personal circumtances as I want this to be a theological discussion based on scripture. It is posted in controversal theology for this reason. I am not after advice that I already know. I am not after sympathy.

I am after sound biblical doctrine why this would not apply to Christians.

My reason for saying this is that I have seen it in my life and the lives of other Christians. The reason I believe it can only be a curse from God is because the bible clearly states god will curse people in Exodus 20:5. I have been taught that this doesnt apply to Christians but believe that would make God a liar. I have seen this in my life and situation in other Christians lives that Christians cant explain with their theology that God blesses Christians that could be explained by this verse being applied.

My evidence of it was when I was a teenager I started going to a Christian youth group with a friend and my dad said he did not want me to go to a Christian thing. He said he hated God and when he was saying it he had the most hateful contorted vile look I ever saw on his face (and he often had a hateful look on his face when he beat me up) and spit coming out of his mouth as he said it.

In responding, I would like any scripture that shows that this does not apply to be included. As it is a very specific situation in response to someone hating God the scriptures would need to show this. And if possible, how to break the curse nd move into Gods blessing. I have been a Christian for about 20 years by the way.

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Exodus 20:5-6
You must not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the fathers’ sin, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing faithful love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commands.

This is about those who be worshiping idols, you said you be aware of biblical things, then you should know that Israel and others in the Bible kept falling back into idol worship over and over again...but when they repented of idol worshiping, God accepted their repentance and extended grace.

Those generations being punished were also worshiping idols...the clue is, "those who hate me"....however, Ruth in the Bible found forgiveness of her pagan ways, she turned from idolatry to worshiping the One True God and keeping His commands, Ruth found grace and Boaz demonstrated being a kinsman redeemer. Ruth abandoned pagan ways and came into fellowship and is the Messiah's family.

GirdYourLoins said:

Thank you all for your replies. First of all I should confess that I put a deliberately contentious title and OP to promote discussion. I usually try to be nice and only get a few responses. I have been a Christian for many years and have a good relationship with God.

I wanted to ask a very specific question about a very specific situation. Not many people have actually addressed it but your views on how to answer it are still appreciated. For example condemned and cursed are different things. Condemned is found guilty, cursed is in this context ill-fated.

I will add another question; have you ever experienced someone saying they hate God with such venom that you are left in no doubt it is true?

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Yes I have,
And it’s nothing new under the sun.
God says they will Hate Him because they love their darkness.
And if somebody is indepth with the occult, they will despise God, even to the fact as you said froughting at the mouth. Frought when angry comes from complete hatred within someone.

Doulosiesou said:

You said this:



That comes from the Old Testament, before Christ had made atonement for sins and nullified the Law for believers. It seemed to me that you were implying a blessing and a curse by not following the Law. But Christ became the curse for us at the cross, thus nullifying the curse for those who believe.

This is what the Book of Hebrews says in this regard:

Hebrews 9:11-14

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

No one is justified by following the Law because there is no way to cleanse your conscience without Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. If your conscience is not clean it is defiled. That is why we confess our sins to God and seek forgiveness (repentance).

There is no possibility for repentance without intercession by the Holy Spirit, the Law convicts us of our sins (instruction) but the Holy Spirit intercedes for us so we can obtain repentance.

Paul says this in Galatians 3:10-11

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them. Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, the righteous man shall live by faith.

The blessing is Christ, not adhering to the Law.

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I see nothing wrong in you believing what you believe.

I believe there is such a thing as demon possession. Jesus expelled many demons in His ministry, it's recorded in the NT.

I think we can be influenced by demons, who probably exist in the 'spiritual' realm. This is a possibility for people who show overt hatred for Christ.

God chastises those He loves sometimes (unlike our natural fathers for the most part at times).
Hebrews 12:4-15(KJV) Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
God doesn't chastise us without reason, it's purpose being to bring us back to Him and even though it might hurt is at first, it's for our best interests. Could be some of the reason for the the troubles you've been dealing with. As for the health issues, Paul tells us how he was plagues with some sort of health problem (which he referred to as "the thorn in his flesh"), and he even gives us possible the reason why:
Paul actually said that he "gloried" in his infirmities (now I realize that we are not all Paul's but this is apparently how he approached it):
2 Corinthians 12:5-10(KJV) Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
Brother, there's a purpose behind all that you've gone through in your life. A person who has gone through all the things that you have, and who remains faithful, has an even greater testimony to give to the world. The fact that you still do (and have been doing "good" Christian works in the name of the Lord) in spite of everything is a true testimony for you love of God and to the rest of the world. So rejoice that in spite of everything, you're still serving the Lord and can't be moved, He'll make sure you don't give up. And don't forget most importantly what Jesus did for you. He suffered far more than any of can imagine and we ourselves have suffered in this lifetime. Look at what Peter says:
1 Peter 2:19-25(KJV) For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
We she never lose sight of what Jesus did for us, and what He went through, no matter how bad things may seem for us. We can overcome whatever hand we're dealt on this earth, as long as we do not give up and have Christ in our lives. Be blessed and may God continue to protect you and bring you strength in the midst of your troubles, in Jesus name.

Michael Collum said:

I recommend reading Galatians, being under the law is a choice, (Galatians 5:18) if you choose to be under the law then the curse applies, but only to you

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Those who choose not to be obedient to God, claim those who try to be obedient, are trying to be under the law, even cursed in this case. That is their way of keeping the obedient from being obedient, while helping themselves to justify their disobedience.

What that has to do with the OP, I don't know....just thought that, and so many past posts just like it needed a reply.