Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

iamlamad · Jan 3, 2018

David Kent said:
But have you a scripture which shows that?

God did not waste the last ten chapters or so of Ezekiel!

Truth7t7 · Jan 3, 2018

iamlamad said:
Perhaps you can show us a scripture that says we will meet the Lord in the air AFTER the tribulation?

In Matthew 24:29-31 we see the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds and angels gathering the elect believer in the resurrection, verse 29 clearly states this event is "immediately after the tribulation", verse 31 states the trump

John 6:40 teaches this resurrection of the righteous believer takes place on "The Last Day"

Is the Jesus, Angels, Clouds, and Trump in Matthew 24:29-31The Same Jesus, Angels, Clouds, and Trump, Seen In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, And The Very Same Event And Place?

100% Yes, That Will Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation"

iamlamad · Jan 3, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
In Matthew 24:29-31 we see the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds and angels gathering the elect believer in the resurrection, verse 29 clearly states this event is "immediately after the tribulation", verse 31 states the trump

John 6:40 teaches this resurrection of the righteous believer takes place on "The Last Day"

Is the Jesus, Angels, Clouds, and Trump in Matthew 24:29-31The Same Jesus, Angels, Clouds, and Trump, Seen In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, And The Very Same Event And Place?

100% Yes, That Will Take Place "Immediately After The Tribulation"

Nice try, but no reward. There is no proof that this group of "elect" that will be gathered from heaven are the church being raptured. In fact, the evidence is, it is not. The rapture will not gather from heaven.

It will be the Old Covenant saints that are raised on the last day. Jesus was talking to Jewish men about THEIR questions on the end. There end will be the 70th week of Daniel, a time set aside for Daniel's people.

Therefore your proof is no proof at all. In fact, men have been arguing these points since Jesus ascended. Chances are good you will never change your mind. Chances are just as good I will not change my mind. I see pretrib in the scriptures - and I can show the rapture AND the "trib" start to finish, in Revelation. The rapture comes before the "trib.

GUANO · Jan 4, 2018

claninja said:
The woman (great prostitute) of revelation 17,19 and Babylon the great of Revelation 18 are the same, to say they are different is to completely ignore scripture:

1.) Whored the earth
The great prostitute: Revelation 17:2
With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:3
3For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

2.) Same clothing
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:4
the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls.
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:16
Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!

3.) Great City
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:10
Woe! Woe to you, great city, you mighty city of Babylon! In one hour your doom has come!’

4.) Brought to ruin in 1 hour
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:12,16
The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:19
Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

5.) punished for the blood of the saints and prophets
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:6, 19:2
saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
2for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:24
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

The great city is easily defined as Jerusalem as it is described in Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.

In order to prove that the great city is different, you'll have to provide scripture, specifically between revelation 12 and 16, that gives us a different description of what the great city is, otherwise, we know the great city in revelation 17 is Jerusalem.
8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.

I agree that in the examples above those are all pointing to the same "woman". I was particularly referencing the woman in Revelation 12 who is seen being ready to give birth and whose child the "dragon" positions itself to devour. I do not believe that "woman" in these scriptures is the "harlot"... I'm sure you agree.

John Prewett · Jan 4, 2018

claninja said:
The woman (great prostitute) of revelation 17,19
and Babylon the great of Revelation 18 are the same

Right !

claninja said:
The great city is easily defined as Jerusalem

Wrong.

Your obliviousness to the significance of the Vatican is astounding.

ps: The Great harlot riding the Beast is a great clue to the identity of the supreme Beast, so your failure to see the Vatican as the Great harlot contributes to blinding you as to the identity of the supreme Beast.

John Prewett · Jan 4, 2018

Revelation 20:4
" I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and the authority to judge was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

The saved of OUR era will be "beheaded" Not "raptured."

Of course Satan would have you surprised-confused-vulnerable when the Beast emerges and and you are still on earth .... some of the "rapture next" people will deny the true identity of the Beast rather than give up their fantasy of being "raptured" before the Beast emerges.

"Those who wait on the Lord will be empowered" Isaiah 40:28-31
"When the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord will lift up a standard" Isaiah 59:19

One should now be looking forward to serving Jesus IN POWER (like the disciples after the day of Pentacost) during the reign of the Beast .... NOT looking forward to being whisked away before the Beast reigns.

The BLESSED look forward to the "day of beheading"

....knowing the moment the blade falls is the REAL moment of "rapture" .....

Consider the attitude of the newly empowered disciples (new apostles) to persecution:

After being beaten ...."41 Then they departed from the presence of the Sanhedrin,
rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.

David Kent · Jan 4, 2018

iamlamad said:
I think you are lost in history! Sorry, but much of Revelation is for the futue 70th week of Daniel:

There can never be a "future 70th week of Daniel: for a number of reasons,

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Many commentators in the past couple of centuries have shown that the original of the word 'are' is singular, thus showing the continuity of the period.

The period 69 weeks ended at the baptism of Jesus when he was anointed.

During the 70th week the transgression of the Jews was finished or completed when they had their Messiah crucified. They "filled up the measure of their fathers." Matthew 23:30-32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Jesus made an end of sins for the faithful by his death on the cross as well as making reconciliation for iniquity.

He brought in everlasting righteousness for the saints.
He sealed up the vision and prophecy as the "law and the Prophets were till John."

Jesus was crucified in the midst of the 70th week, by which he caused the sacrifice to finish.

Truth7t7 · Jan 4, 2018

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"The Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

Matthew 23:37KJV
"Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
The harlot sits on seven mountains/hills.

Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

Ezekiel 16KJV
Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

8.) Revelation 17KJV
The Woman/harlot/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

Daniel 11:36-37KJV
The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

John Prewett said:
Right !

Wrong.

Your obliviousness to the significance of the Vatican is astounding.

ps: The Great harlot riding the Beast is a great clue to the identity of the supreme Beast, so your failure to see the Vatican as the Great harlot contributes to blinding you as to the identity of the supreme Beast.

John Prewett · Jan 4, 2018

Revelation 17 &18 is where the Great harlot is described.

During the time span of the Revelation, Jerusalem was a powerless city.
During the same time span it was the Vatican that was (as it still does) fornicating with kings, shedding blood of martyrs, amassing great wealth, exercising power all over the world, famous for purple and scarlet costumes, ......

One who pulls a verse out of Chapter 11 to make claim that Jerusalem is the Great harlot
is revealing their support of the Vatican and their antipathy toward Jews.

And of course antipathy toward Jews has been a prominent feature of Trinitarianism
since the Trinitarian cult was empowered by Pagan Roman Empire in 380 AD.

David Kent · Jan 4, 2018

John Prewett said:
One who pulls a verse out of Chapter 11 to make claim that Jerusalem is the Great harlot
is revealing their support of the Vatican and their antipathy toward Jews.

It is not really surprising as futurism is a Jesuit teaching from the 16th century. This was to counter the teaching of the reformation and also churches before the reformation that the papacy is the Antichrist.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Which great city reigned over the kings of the earth at the time that Joan saw the vision, but Rome?

Rome is proud of her title of "The City of th Seven Hills"

Truth7t7 · Jan 4, 2018

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"The Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

Matthew 23:37KJV
"Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
The harlot sits on seven mountains/hills.

Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

Ezekiel 16KJV
Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

8.) Revelation 17KJV
The Woman/harlot/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

Daniel 11:36-37KJV
The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

John Prewett said:
Revelation 17 &18 is where the Great harlot is described.

During the time span of the Revelation, Jerusalem was a powerless city.
During the same time span it was the Vatican that was (as it still does) fornicating with kings, shedding blood of martyrs, amassing great wealth, exercising power all over the world, famous for purple and scarlet costumes, ......

One who pulls a verse out of Chapter 11 to make claim that Jerusalem is the Great harlot
is revealing their support of the Vatican and their antipathy toward Jews.

And of course antipathy toward Jews has been a prominent feature of Trinitarianism
since the Trinitarian cult was empowered by Pagan Roman Empire in 380 AD.

Postvieww · Jan 4, 2018

claninja said:
Who is the woman on the beast in Revelation 17-18?
_______________________________________________________________
The woman is the great city
Revelation 17:18
And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

A.)the great city is Jerusalem
Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.

B.) Peter states that the church in Jerusalem, is in Babylon.
1 Peter 5:13
She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.
________________________________________________________________
Punishment for the woman in Revelation 17-18

A.)God uses the beast and 10 horns to desolate the woman, who is unfaithful Jerusalem.
Revelation 17:16-17
And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
________________________________________________________________________
Why was the woman punished?

A.) she killed the saint of Jesus
Revelation 17:6
could see that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and of the witnesses for Jesus. And I was greatly astonished at the sight of her.

B.) She killed the prophets and saints
Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.

C.) Her sins were piled to heaven
Revelation 18:5
For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

D.) She had been immoral with other nations
Revelation 18:3
All the nations have drunkc the wine of the passion of her immorality.
The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy through the extravagance of her luxury.”
_________________________________________________________________________

When did her punishment occur?

When Jesus said it would, on the generation of his audience:

matthew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.
_________________________________________________________________________

The woman was unfaithful Jerusalem (israel), who was made desolate by the roman armies because of all the righteous blood it had spilled.

I have a few questions about this theory.

How can Jerusalem be the Babylon destroyed in Revelation by God?

1. Utterly burned with fire Revelation 18:8

2. Babylon is thrown down and shall be found no more at all Revelation 18:21

3. The voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee Revelation 18:23

How can we square that with Zechariah 14?

1. The Lord will smite the people who have fought against Jerusalem. Who is coming against a Jerusalem destroyed by fire?

2. Zechariah 14:11 tells us Jerusalem will be safely inhabited. That is in direct contrast with Revelation 18:8,21, & 23

3.Zechariah 14:16-17 tells us those left of the nations that come against Jerusalem will come to Jerusalem to worship the King, How can we square that with Revelation 18?

Jerusalem is not the Babylon of Revelation 18!

I would suggest Mecca, a much better fit.

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

GUANO said:
I agree that in the examples above those are all pointing to the same "woman". I was particularly referencing the woman in Revelation 12 who is seen being ready to give birth and whose child the "dragon" positions itself to devour. I do not believe that "woman" in these scriptures is the "harlot"... I'm sure you agree.

It is easy to determine that the woman in chapter 12 is referencing Israel. The Messiah came out of Israel. And it was those living in Judea that Jesus told to flee when they saw the abomination. Mary was a Jew. God put Virgo in the sky to tell the story of Mary as a virgin giving birth to the King of Kings. There can be no doubt, the Dragon, the devil, was behind King Herod's attempts to kill the child before it could become a king.

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

Postvieww said:
I have a few questions about this theory.

How can Jerusalem be the Babylon destroyed in Revelation by God?

1. Utterly burned with fire Revelation 18:8

Why not Jerusalem? What city on earth is hated more by the devil than Jerusalem? What city did God say He would make a stumbling block for the world?

Postvieww said:
2. Babylon is thrown down and shall be found no more at all Revelation 18:21

Right, "Babylon or MYSTERY Babylon is to be destroyed and never seen again. "Mystery Babyon" is the city of Jerusalem that is under the control of the devil and is deceiving the entire world. Such a city of deception will never exist again. In other words, the real city can be rebuilt and exist forever, while the city as a babylon city of deception can never live again,

Postvieww said:
3. The voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more in thee Revelation 18:23

How can we square that with Zechariah 14?

Same answer as above. Jerusalem the city will never, ever again be "Mystery Babylon." Zec. 14 does not tell us the state of the real city when Jesus touches down. Of course a burnt city could be rebuilt.

Postvieww said:
1. The Lord will smite the people who have fought against Jerusalem. Who is coming against a Jerusalem destroyed by fire?

You have it wrong: it will be those coming against Jerusalem that burn her with fire. Their goal (and Satan's goal behind them) is to erase Israel and Jerusalem from all maps. My guess is, it will be the combined armies of the world that come against Israel. (The ten kings that throw in with the Beast for one hour.)

Postvieww said:
2. Zechariah 14:11 tells us Jerusalem will be safely inhabited. That is in direct contrast with Revelation 18:8,21, & 23

Same answer as above: Jerusalem the real city will live again, but Jerusalem the "Mystery Babyon" will never live again. In other words, Jerusalem the real city will never, ever, be taken over by Satan to deceive the world.

Postvieww said:
3.Zechariah 14:16-17 tells us those left of the nations that come against Jerusalem will come to Jerusalem to worship the King, How can we square that with Revelation 18?

Same answer as above. God does a play on words here.

Postvieww said:
Jerusalem is not the Babylon of Revelation 18!

I would suggest Mecca, a much better fit.

I disagree.
Even if we don't like what Scripture shows us, we must believe it anyway. John tells us the "Mystery Babylon" city is the very city where Jesus was crucified."

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

David Kent said:
It is not really surprising as futurism is a Jesuit teaching from the 16th century. This was to counter the teaching of the reformation and also churches before the reformation that the papacy is the Antichrist.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Which great city reigned over the kings of the earth at the time that Joan saw the vision, but Rome?

Rome is proud of her title of "The City of th Seven Hills"

"At the time?" John was seeing a vision of the FUTURE. Really, David, that is not a bad word. The intent of the Author is that this is the time that the Beast and False Prophet will rule and deceive the world from the city of Jerusalem. The "reigning over" idea is what John wrote. If the Beast has deceived the entire world from Jerusalem, could we not say that Jerusalem is reigning over the world?

BABerean2 · Jan 4, 2018

iamlamad said:
Nice try, but no reward. There is no proof that this group of "elect" that will be gathered from heaven are the church being raptured. In fact, the evidence is, it is not. The rapture will not gather from heaven.

It will be the Old Covenant saints that are raised on the last day. Jesus was talking to Jewish men about THEIR questions on the end. There end will be the 70th week of Daniel, a time set aside for Daniel's people.

Therefore your proof is no proof at all. In fact, men have been arguing these points since Jesus ascended. Chances are good you will never change your mind. Chances are just as good I will not change my mind. I see pretrib in the scriptures - and I can show the rapture AND the "trib" start to finish, in Revelation. The rapture comes before the "trib.

Once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls apart with it.

.

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

John Prewett said:
Revelation 17 &18 is where the Great harlot is described.

During the time span of the Revelation, Jerusalem was a powerless city.
During the same time span it was the Vatican that was (as it still does) fornicating with kings, shedding blood of martyrs, amassing great wealth, exercising power all over the world, famous for purple and scarlet costumes, ......

One who pulls a verse out of Chapter 11 to make claim that Jerusalem is the Great harlot
is revealing their support of the Vatican and their antipathy toward Jews.

And of course antipathy toward Jews has been a prominent feature of Trinitarianism
since the Trinitarian cult was empowered by Pagan Roman Empire in 380 AD.

Are you saying that we as humans were not really made in the image of God and after His likeness? Are you saying that Jesus really was not the I AM of the Old Testament? Are you saying that God is not Spirit, Soul, and Body like we are, a three part being? You might as well throw the entire bible away. It is THE CHURCH - the body of Christ on earth - that believes in the triune Godhead, and the church universal is not a cult.

Anyway, much of Revelation is FUTURE, not past. If you don't understand this by now, there is little hope you ever will.

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

David Kent said:
There can never be a "future 70th week of Daniel: for a number of reasons,

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Many commentators in the past couple of centuries have shown that the original of the word 'are' is singular, thus showing the continuity of the period.

The period 69 weeks ended at the baptism of Jesus when he was anointed.

During the 70th week the transgression of the Jews was finished or completed when they had their Messiah crucified. They "filled up the measure of their fathers." Matthew 23:30-32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Jesus made an end of sins for the faithful by his death on the cross as well as making reconciliation for iniquity.

He brought in everlasting righteousness for the saints.
He sealed up the vision and prophecy as the "law and the Prophets were till John."

Jesus was crucified in the midst of the 70th week, by which he caused the sacrifice to finish.

You can try to rewrite Daniel 9 to fit your theory, but most of us won't buy it. Daniel did NOT write that Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th week. He wrote "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off..." And he wrote this before he wrote anything about the 70th week.

Next, God's covenant will last forever, not for one week. Next, God does not go back on His covenants. Next, the daily sacrifices continued LONG after Jesus died and rose from the dead.

Sorry, but your theory simply does not fit what is written.

iamlamad · Jan 4, 2018

John Prewett said:
Revelation 20:4
" I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and the authority to judge was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

The saved of OUR era will be "beheaded" Not "raptured."

You are reading that text wrong. "I saw thrones and they sat on them, and authority to judge was given to them." It is this group that is the raptured church. You will see them in Rev. 7 as the great crowd too large to number, and you will see them at the first part of Rev. 19 preparing for and then going to the marriage and supper that will take place in heaven.

John Prewett said:
Of course Satan would have you surprised-confused-vulnerable when the Beast emerges and and you are still on earth .... some of the "rapture next" people will deny the true identity of the Beast rather than give up their fantasy of being "raptured" before the Beast emerges.

Maybe you, but not the church, for the true church will never see the man of sin. The true church will have departed, or been "taken out of the way" before the man of sin can be revealed as the Beast.

John Prewett said:
"Those who wait on the Lord will be empowered" Isaiah 40:28-31
"When the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord will lift up a standard" Isaiah 59:19

Sorry, but the verse that fits the 70th week is that the saints will be "overcome." Your verse does not fit the season.

John Prewett said:
One should now be looking forward to serving Jesus IN POWER (like the disciples after the day of Pentacost) during the reign of the Beast .... NOT looking forward to being whisked away before the Beast reigns.

You are simply mistaken, not understanding the intent of the Author.

John Prewett said:
The BLESSED look forward to the "day of beheading"

No, the blessed are caught up before the man of sin is revealed.

Postvieww · Jan 4, 2018

iamlamad said:
I disagree.

I just don’t agree with weaving back and forth from the literal to the figurative to obtain the desired result.

iamlamad said:
Even if we don't like what Scripture shows us, we must believe it anyway. John tells us the "Mystery Babylon" city is the very city where Jesus was crucified."

What scripture do you refer to here? Are you not combing Rev. 11:8 and 17:5 to get the result you desire? Rev 11:8 doesn’t say “Mystery Babylon”. This is Jerusalem, Revelation 17:5 is not.

Revelation 11:8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

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