Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great

Truth7t7

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Hello Truth7t7.

Thanks for the clarification.

The city identified in Revelations 17, rules over many nations.

Revelation 17:1
I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters...

Jerusalem has never ruled over the nations of the world, and never will.

This city that John writes about John does not know.

Revelation 17:6-7
When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...

If this woman was Jerusalem I can assure you that John would have recognized her. The fact that John is unable to identify the city, is proof that she is a future city that will control the nations, unknown to John.

Yes T7t7, a future city from the time that John wrote Revelations, certainly not historical from John's viewpoint.

No one can decide who own Jerusalem even to this very day, yet theocratic Rome in the future, ruled the world with an iron fist.

Jerusalem is not even a possibility, Rome is the best option currently available.

Israel is a secular nation, Israel has no use for a temple.

I can assure you that animal sacrifices will never occur again, this is the twenty first century after all.

The sacrificial system ceased two thousand years ago, these prophecies have already been fulfilled.

No need for a temple not in the modern era.

Jerusalem, the theocratic city of ancient Israel, will never be seen again this idea ended
2000 years ago.
I have shown you clearly Jerusalem Is The harlot In my opinion, We Disagree No Need to beat a dead horse.

John didn't recognize the harlot and beast because its a future Jerusalem, simple :)

I agree no temple or sacrificial system is needed, Jesus died blood sacrifice is abolished.

However the Jews dont see it our way, and a future temple in Jerusalem for the Jews is "Their High Priority" as the temple faithful are already sacrificing animals inside the city walls for passover.

They are moving the US embasy to Jerusalem, talks on the temple mount are at an all time high, Saudi Arabia, UAE, are onboard, the layout and drafts to build are ready, all priestly garments, vessels, etc ready to go, Interesting"

Isaiah 66:1-3 strongly suggest a renewed sacrificial system, "Not Blessed By God"

We will disagree :)

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.
 
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iamlamad

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Rev 11:1-2
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Do you understand what is happening in these scriptures? Yes, John is sent to measure the temple, real, brick and mortar, not yet built, in Jerusalem. This temple, will be JEWISH and not for the church. It will be a synogogue type temple. Gentiles not allowed. Why is the Holy City to be trampled by Gentiles?

And do you know the timing here?

The man of sin MUST be in Jerusalem for he is to enter the temple and declare he is God. But at this time, he does not live in Jerusalem, so he must arrive. He does, and this chapter gives us a hint when. I believe he will arrive in Jerusalem just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint, with his Gentile armies. I believe they will be Muslim armies. So the city will begin to be trampled starting 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. Because he arrived, the two witnesses will arrive, probably seconds after he arrives. Three and a half days later, the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is god.

The Holy City is God's congregation on earth making up of two groups of people inside the church:

1.) True Elect - who are measured (sealed by God) to be part of Temple, and worship therein.

2.) Professed Christians - who are NOT measured (not sealed by God), are in the court, but professed to be part of the Holy City in name only.
Amazing! God is talking about a real temple in a real city, with Jews and maybe other Israelites in the temple worshiping God, and you imagine it is the church. Go figure!
Many are called into the church but few are chosen! Now...

3.) The Gentiles OUTSIDE the Holy City are heathens.

Now ask yourself a question, why do you think God has decided to give up the court of the city filled with professed Christians to the Gentiles?
You are a mile and a half off. You are way past left field. You left the ball park. God is talking about Israel, Jerusalem, and Jews, not the church! Do you imagine the church will be paying any attention to the video from the Holy of Holies on that day when the man of sin enters? NO! It will be JEWS mostly that see and begin fleeing. Any member of the truth church will have been raptured way back before the 6th seal. And most who are following Jesus at this time, near the midpoint, will be Gentile believers who turned to God after the rapture.

Do you have any idea WHERE Jesus will touch down when He comes?
 
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iamlamad

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Hello Truth7t7.

Thanks for the clarification.

The city identified in Revelations 17, rules over many nations.

Revelation 17:1
I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters...

Jerusalem has never ruled over the nations of the world, and never will.
I already answered this post. The Beast will rule from Jerusalem, over the world.

This city that John writes about John does not know.

Revelation 17:6-7
When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...

If this woman was Jerusalem I can assure you that John would have recognized her. The fact that John is unable to identify the city, is proof that she is a future city that will control the nations, unknown to John.
This is a VISION, not a city, John is seeing. It is a WOMAN! And I can assure you, after the vision, John knew this woman was to represent Jerusalem.
Yes T7t7, a future city from the time that John wrote Revelations, certainly not historical from John's viewpoint.

No one can decide who own Jerusalem even to this very day, yet theocratic Rome in the future, ruled the world with an iron fist.
Israel KNOWS they own it. There is no doubt of this.

Jerusalem is not even a possibility, Rome is the best option currently available.
This answer just shows how far you are from the intent of the Author. Sorry, but human reasoning cannot get this book.

Israel is a secular nation, Israel has no use for a temple.

Wow! Have you not watched those at the wailing wall praying? Do you imagine they are praying "secular" prayers? There are MANY in Israel today that love God.

I can assure you that animal sacrifices will never occur again, this is the twenty first century after all.
So you would disagree with Daniel?
The sacrificial system ceased two thousand years ago, these prophecies have already been fulfilled.

No need for a temple not in the modern era.

Jerusalem, the theocratic city of ancient Israel, will never be seen again this idea ended
2000 years ago.
You are miles off from the truth of scripture. Jesus will return to the EXISTING Israel. But when He comes, there will be a new temple.
 
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Truth7t7

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I ady answered this post. The Beast will rule from Jerusalem, over the world.


This is a VISION, not a city, John is seeing. It is a WOMAN! And I can assure you, after the vision, John knew this woman was to represent Jerusalem.

Israel KNOWS they own it. There is no doubt of this.

This answer just shows how far you are from the intent of the Author. Sorry, but human reasoning cannot get this book.



Wow! Have you not watched those at the wailing wall praying? Do you imagine they are praying "secular" prayers? There are MANY in Israel today that love God.

So you would disagree with Daniel?

You are miles off from the truth of scripture. Jesus will return to the EXISTING Israel. But when He comes, there will be a new temple.
I agree with much of your response :)

However Jesus isnt going to return to earth and hang out in Jerusalem with Mortal Humans.

The Antichrist Will, Claiming To Be The Messiah to the Jews, And Jesus returned to the "Deceived Apostate Church"

Jesus warned the believer against the teaching of himself walking on this earth in Matthew 24:23-27

"Believe It Not"!

Jesus Christ will return with the Holy angels in final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, "Eternity Begins" :)

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34
 
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DavidPT

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Revelation 18:24
Is Rome, New York, The UN, guilty of the prophets blood? "Nope"

But Gods word clearly tells us Jerusalem Is :)
Matthew 23:37 Jerusalem, Thou That Killest The Prophets, :)

Pretty simple, thanks for the response :)


Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

This verse says---And in her was found the blood-----of all that were slain upon the earth.


So, everyone that were slain upon the earth, this happened in Jerusalem? So, if a saint is slain in China, for example, China is really meaning Jerusalem? It would have to mean that since you apparently interpret the 'her' in that verse to be meaning Jerusalem, and that the text indicates that in her(Jerusalem according to you)was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 
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Marvin Knox

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Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"The Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

Matthew 23:37KJV
"Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
The harlot sits on seven mountains/hills.

Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

Ezekiel 16KJV
Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

8.) Revelation 17KJV
The Woman/harlot/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

Daniel 11:36-37KJV
The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7
I believe you've got this wrong.

In fact you aren't even close to having it right.
 
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Truth7t7

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Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

This verse says---And in her was found the blood-----of all that were slain upon the earth.


So, everyone that were slain upon the earth, this happened in Jerusalem? So, if a saint is slain in China, for example, China is really meaning Jerusalem? It would have to mean that since you apparently interpret the 'her' in that verse to be meaning Jerusalem, and that the text indicates that in her(Jerusalem according to you)was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Well Matthew 23:35-37 states Jerusalem is guilty/blamed of "All Bloodshed Upon Earth" and guilty of "Killing The Prophets"

This clearly answers Revelation 18:24 as Jerusalem being the Mystery.

Now the question of Matthew 23:35, why is Jerusalem guilty/blamed of all the righteous blood on earth?
 
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klutedavid

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Why do so many people 'THINK' they have the correct answers or are the only ones with the truth?
Hello Antig.

Having witnessed so many variations in interpretation of the scripture, I have asked myself that question many times. There are so many different views on so many topics in the scripture, it is simply alarming.

I must say it makes a person very careful in the way they read the scripture, trust no one.
 
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Truth7t7

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Hello Antig.

Having witnessed so many variations in interpretation of the scripture, I have asked myself that question many times. There are so many different views on so many topics in the scripture, it is simply alarming.

I must say it makes a person very careful in the way they read the scripture, trust no one.
Matthew 24:24
Your 100% Correct, "Trust No Man"!

Unbelievable Deception!

The Greatest Deception I See Is The False Teaching Of Jesus Christ Returning, And Hanging Out With Mortal Humans On This Earth In A Proclaimed Millennial Kingdom?

Jesus Warned The Believer Against This Teaching In Matthew 24:23-27, He Won't Be Any Place On This Earth!

"Believe It Not"!

The Apostate Church Is Ripe And Ready To Receive The Walk On Messiah To The Jews, And Returned Jesus To The Deceived Apostate Church, This Will Be The Antichrist/Man Of Sin, Beware!
 
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DavidPT

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Well Matthew 23:35-37 states Jerusalem is guilty/blamed of "All Bloodshed Upon Earth" and guilty of "Killing The Prophets"

This clearly answers Revelation 18:24 as Jerusalem being the Mystery.

Now the question of Matthew 23:35, why is Jerusalem guilty/blamed of all the righteous blood on earth?


It seems to me then, if mystery Babylon is meaning Jerusalem, which it very well could be, it wouldn't be meaning it in the literal sense though, as in the literal city itself.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.


Some take this to mean what eventually occurred in 70 AD. I myself don't. I don't feel it's meaning generation in that sense.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward(skolios) generation(genea).


Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked(skolios) and perverse nation(genea), among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

I think it could be meaning in the same sense as per these verses---a crooked and perverse nation

And if I'm on the right track, that would basically make the following in Matthew 24 to be meaning the following.

Matthew 24:34 Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.



IOW----Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This crooked and perverse generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Whether this might be correct or not, that I don't know. All I do know is, I prefer my interpretation of this over the Preterists who place Matthew 24:34 being fulfilled in the first century, namely having to do with 70 AD. I totally reject that interpretation of this verse, regardless whether my interpretation is correct or not. I at least know their's 100% isn't correct, while mine I give it a 50-50 chance that it is correct.
 
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TribulationSigns

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So you wish to take something literal and make it spiritual? Sorry, anyone can make any scripture say anything by doing this. I refuse. When John tells us there will be flying locusts with stings like scorpions, I will take him at his word.

Obviously, you do lack spiritual discernment.

The purpose of these locusts is to inflict PAIN - physical pain. I am reminded of God sending hornets in the Old Testament.

Sigh... since you do not bother to do your homework by comparing Scripture with Scripture which is NOT surprising with the majority of people here, I will show you some of my understanding on Revelation 9 so pay attention:

When the bottomless pit (where Satan was bound) was opened, the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. The sun being darkened is the portrait God was painting of the darkness of Revelation 16, where it says the kingdom of the beast became full of darkness. The king of the symbolic locusts that came out of the pit had a king rule over them, whose name was the Destroyer which obviously is Satan. The locusts with power as scorpions, represent the false prophets and teachers under the spirit of the Antichrist that has been loosed as a judgment upon the unfaithful church, and their power was to hurt all those who weren't sealed in their foreheads. This means they can only cause this same spiritual torment, pain or anguish upon those who are are not saved or sealed (Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). Spiritually speaking they are hurt by this judgment of strong delusion that God has brought upon them so they will BELIEVE a lie as judgment.

Revelation 9:5
  • "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."
This pain or torment is the power of the Scorpion, which is Satan. Satan is a spirit being causing spiritual hurt. God is not talking about Satan who will literally command grasshoppers or physical predatory arthropods to physically sting people who have no mark. It's symbolism! God is speaking symbolically of the power that Satan has as an enemy of Christ. For example, when God uses the locusts devouring the fruitful field, or the power of the Scorpion's sting, or the bite of the serpent to hurt those who are not sealed, it's symbolic terminology representing Satan's power. That's why Mark 16 says believers cannot be hurt by the serpent--because those who believe are sealed unto the day of redemption and cannot be spiritually hurt by serpents, Scorpions or locusts (Revelation 9:4). Even as Christ illustrated this "perfectly" in Luke 10 when He sent His witnesses out by two's and they came back saying the Devil as subject unto them. Or for example:

Luke 10:18-19
  • "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
  • Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
What power did Christ talk about here? DDT spray cans? No! Seriously! Here Christ is equating the power of Satan to the power of Scorpions and of Serpents, which is not surprising because Satan is identified/symbolized by the Serpent and Scorpion. He is saying nothing can hurt those who are in Christ Jesus, not the physical sting of the scorpion nor the bite of the great serpent. In like manner, in Revelation chapter 9 when God speaks of those locusts with the power to hurt as scorpions (but only those without the seal), it's referring to the power of the enemy, Satan. It's not literal vials sticking out of heaven, carried by angels, or physical sores, or literal scorpions, locusts, stars falling to earth (ridiculous) or a literal woman sitting in heaven waiting to give birth, it's all symbolism. Get it?! Here where the pit is opened and locusts with the power of the Scorpion is symbolism of God sending those without the seal of redemption strong delusion, that they speak evil or blasphemy and be damned who would not believe the truth.

Ephesians 1:13-14
  • "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
  • Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
The Elect can NOT be hurt BECAUSE they have this seal of promise in their foreheads. Obviously thus hurting is no more literal/physical than the sealing was. Selah! That's why God insisted that none of this could happen until ALL Israel was sealed (Revelation 7:3) or saved FIRST, only then could this judgment by God's messengers take place. Selah.

Think of it: God is sending terrible torment - pain so severe that men want to die. And yes, it is physical death then want, to end the pain.

You have no clues to what you are blabbing about! God was not talking about terrible physical pain that one is having a death wish. That is NOT what God talked about! You have no common sense to begin with when you read Revelation 9.

Do you realize that those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit have EXPERIENCED DEATH which the others cannot? To seek death or to desire to die are the same thing as seeking salvation in Christ! It is about being born again and put old self to death! Think about it!

The language of "men seeking death, and can't find it, and desiring to die, and death shall flee from them," is symbolism for salvation not being available to them after all 144,000 has been sealed!

Rev 14:3
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

So Revelation 9 is talking about these men who have not sealed AFTER all Israel has been sealed, will not be able to find salvation in Christ anymore. They have waited too long and that time is past. That is why Elect is mourning over the church because they can "SEE" HER TORMENTS with locusts that no one will be able to buy their merchandise of salvation anymore. Consider verses wisely:

Rev 18:10-11
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

For the past 2,000 years, the merchants of the earth (Elect) has been busy selling Gospel so that people could get saved. But once God has sealed all of the spiritual tribes of Israel or in other words, the fulness of Gentiles be coming in, there will be no more sealing. Then God will allow the locusts to torments those in the church, but only those who have NOT YET SEALED so that they will not be able to find salvation (death in Christ). This is what the judgment of the unfaithful church looks like today.

Of course, you may not be buying this which is sad because... guess what, people like you may already be been stung and not knowing about it. It is NOT a physical pain! It is spiritual pain or torments which is DECEPTION that you will think you are saved when you will realize you are not on the day of Judgment. See my point? The spiritual stings of the locusts are alot more dangerous than any physical pain of the sting because it determines destiny of your souls. So you need to pray carefully about it.

Whoever have the ears let him hear!
 
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TribulationSigns

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Sorry, but anyone that denies the reality of the nation of Israel as the Israel God made promises to is far far off course.

I am not worried about that. I know exactly what Scripture says about Israel. You got wrong Israel just like the scribes and the Pharisees who were seeking the same thing.

Did you just ignore John in the sealing of the 12,000 men from each tribe? I guess you spiritualize that too!

Anyone can read this and pray about it.

Revelation 7 and the 144,000
 
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Marvin Knox

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Thanks for the response Marvin, who do you think the harlot is, Mystery Babylon?
I believe there are two Babylons in the book of Revelation.

In chapter 17 we see religious Babylon which I equate with Roman Catholicism - likely in league in the last days with other false gospel systems such as Islam.

In chapter 18 we see economic Babylon which I equate with western economic systems including the United States and it's currencies and New York City in particular.

I could be wrong of course. But I don't think that Jerusalem fills the bill in the way it is described in the OP.

Time will tell of course.:)

I don't intend to be on earth to find out for sure. But that's another controversial doctrine isn't it?:rolleyes:

It's funny how, when I was in my thirties, I would have told you I knew it all for sure. But now that I'm in my seventies I'm not so sure any more.
 
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Truth7t7

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It seems to me then, if mystery Babylon is meaning Jerusalem, which it very well could be, it wouldn't be meaning it in the literal sense though, as in the literal city itself.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.


Some take this to mean what eventually occurred in 70 AD. I myself don't. I don't feel it's meaning generation in that sense.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward(skolios) generation(genea).


Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked(skolios) and perverse nation(genea), among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

I think it could be meaning in the same sense as per these verses---a crooked and perverse nation

And if I'm on the right track, that would basically make the following in Matthew 24 to be meaning the following.

Matthew 24:34 Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.



IOW----Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This crooked and perverse generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Whether this might be correct or not, that I don't know. All I do know is, I prefer my interpretation of this over the Preterists who place Matthew 24:34 being fulfilled in the first century, namely having to do with 70 AD. I totally reject that interpretation of this verse, regardless whether my interpretation is correct or not. I at least know their's 100% isn't correct, while mine I give it a 50-50 chance that it is correct.
We agree Dave, I believe its a literal Jerusalem, and I reject the preterist interpretation also, as I see it as you do :)
 
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Truth7t7

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I believe there are two Babylons in the book of Revelation.

In chapter 17 we see religious Babylon which I equate with Roman Catholicism - likely in league in the last days with other false gospel systems such as Islam.

In chapter 18 we see economic Babylon which I equate with western economic systems including the United States and it's currencies and New York City in particular.

I could be wrong of course. But I don't think that Jerusalem fills the bill in the way it is described in the OP.

Time will tell of course.:)

I don't intend to be on earth to find out for sure. But that's another controversial doctrine isn't it?:rolleyes:

It's funny how, when I was in my thirties, I would have told you I knew it all for sure. But now that I'm in my seventies I'm not so sure any more.
Well Marvin I disagree with your view of Revelation 17/18 as I believe the OP, I been at this for 40 years.

I was bound for 20 years in the dispy pre-trib Calvary Chapels And Baptist Churches.

I believed the rapture, without a clue of who John N. Darby Was, The C.I. Scofield bible was the thing to have, that made anybody carrying it a prophecy teacher?

Marvin Your Smiling Right Now :)

You gotta remember the movie series"A Thief In The Night" the unite squad running around for the antichrist, hunting down christians?

Now its the dispy, Dallas Theological Grad "Tim La Haye" in the Sci-Fi "Left Behind" series?

Marvin Your Smiling Again :)

We went from Billy Graham, To TBN Paul Jan Crouch, Jimmy Swaggart, Kenneth Copeland, Jim And Tammy Faye Baker, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, TD Jake, Creflo I Want Your Dollar, With His Wife Daffy, On And On.

The mark of the beast was a tattoo in the 70's a barcode in the 80's-90"s Now its a micro chip implant.

60 million unborn being killed every year in the world, abortion.

Same Sex Marriage in about every western country right now?

Rainbow Flags flying infront of buildings that state they are God's church?

Homosexuals parading in the streets of Jerusalem?

How much longer will God allow this to continue?

The Deception Is Great Marvin, Matthew 24:24, Those that shall endure to "The End" shall be saved.
 
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iamlamad

Lamad
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I am not worried about that. I know exactly what Scripture says about Israel. You got wrong Israel just like the scribes and the Pharisees who were seeking the same thing.



Anyone can read this and pray about it.

Revelation 7 and the 144,000
What? Pray and ask God if He really meant 12,000 from each tribe? It would be a wasted prayer!
 
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iamlamad

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Obviously, you do lack spiritual discernment.



Sigh... since you do not bother to do your homework by comparing Scripture with Scripture which is NOT surprising with the majority of people here, I will show you some of my understanding on Revelation 9 so pay attention:

When the bottomless pit (where Satan was bound) was opened, the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. The sun being darkened is the portrait God was painting of the darkness of Revelation 16, where it says the kingdom of the beast became full of darkness. The king of the symbolic locusts that came out of the pit had a king rule over them, whose name was the Destroyer which obviously is Satan. The locusts with power as scorpions, represent the false prophets and teachers under the spirit of the Antichrist that has been loosed as a judgment upon the unfaithful church, and their power was to hurt all those who weren't sealed in their foreheads. This means they can only cause this same spiritual torment, pain or anguish upon those who are are not saved or sealed (Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). Spiritually speaking they are hurt by this judgment of strong delusion that God has brought upon them so they will BELIEVE a lie as judgment.

Revelation 9:5
  • "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."
This pain or torment is the power of the Scorpion, which is Satan. Satan is a spirit being causing spiritual hurt. God is not talking about Satan who will literally command grasshoppers or physical predatory arthropods to physically sting people who have no mark. It's symbolism! God is speaking symbolically of the power that Satan has as an enemy of Christ. For example, when God uses the locusts devouring the fruitful field, or the power of the Scorpion's sting, or the bite of the serpent to hurt those who are not sealed, it's symbolic terminology representing Satan's power. That's why Mark 16 says believers cannot be hurt by the serpent--because those who believe are sealed unto the day of redemption and cannot be spiritually hurt by serpents, Scorpions or locusts (Revelation 9:4). Even as Christ illustrated this "perfectly" in Luke 10 when He sent His witnesses out by two's and they came back saying the Devil as subject unto them. Or for example:

Luke 10:18-19
  • "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
  • Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
What power did Christ talk about here? DDT spray cans? No! Seriously! Here Christ is equating the power of Satan to the power of Scorpions and of Serpents, which is not surprising because Satan is identified/symbolized by the Serpent and Scorpion. He is saying nothing can hurt those who are in Christ Jesus, not the physical sting of the scorpion nor the bite of the great serpent. In like manner, in Revelation chapter 9 when God speaks of those locusts with the power to hurt as scorpions (but only those without the seal), it's referring to the power of the enemy, Satan. It's not literal vials sticking out of heaven, carried by angels, or physical sores, or literal scorpions, locusts, stars falling to earth (ridiculous) or a literal woman sitting in heaven waiting to give birth, it's all symbolism. Get it?! Here where the pit is opened and locusts with the power of the Scorpion is symbolism of God sending those without the seal of redemption strong delusion, that they speak evil or blasphemy and be damned who would not believe the truth.

Ephesians 1:13-14
  • "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
  • Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
The Elect can NOT be hurt BECAUSE they have this seal of promise in their foreheads. Obviously thus hurting is no more literal/physical than the sealing was. Selah! That's why God insisted that none of this could happen until ALL Israel was sealed (Revelation 7:3) or saved FIRST, only then could this judgment by God's messengers take place. Selah.



You have no clues to what you are blabbing about! God was not talking about terrible physical pain that one is having a death wish. That is NOT what God talked about! You have no common sense to begin with when you read Revelation 9.

Do you realize that those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit have EXPERIENCED DEATH which the others cannot? To seek death or to desire to die are the same thing as seeking salvation in Christ! It is about being born again and put old self to death! Think about it!

The language of "men seeking death, and can't find it, and desiring to die, and death shall flee from them," is symbolism for salvation not being available to them after all 144,000 has been sealed!

Rev 14:3
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

So Revelation 9 is talking about these men who have not sealed AFTER all Israel has been sealed, will not be able to find salvation in Christ anymore. They have waited too long and that time is past. That is why Elect is mourning over the church because they can "SEE" HER TORMENTS with locusts that no one will be able to buy their merchandise of salvation anymore. Consider verses wisely:

Rev 18:10-11
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

For the past 2,000 years, the merchants of the earth (Elect) has been busy selling Gospel so that people could get saved. But once God has sealed all of the spiritual tribes of Israel or in other words, the fulness of Gentiles be coming in, there will be no more sealing. Then God will allow the locusts to torments those in the church, but only those who have NOT YET SEALED so that they will not be able to find salvation (death in Christ). This is what the judgment of the unfaithful church looks like today.

Of course, you may not be buying this which is sad because... guess what, people like you may already be been stung and not knowing about it. It is NOT a physical pain! It is spiritual pain or torments which is DECEPTION that you will think you are saved when you will realize you are not on the day of Judgment. See my point? The spiritual stings of the locusts are alot more dangerous than any physical pain of the sting because it determines destiny of your souls. So you need to pray carefully about it.

Whoever have the ears let him hear!
Sigh! The sun being darkened is exactly what it says and why it says: these flying little stinging beasties were coming out of the pit in such numbers they blocked the sun. In Revelation 16, the sun, the moon, and even the stars are darkened. So you missed it yet again.

Only you imagine these locusts are symbolic.

You go ahead and spiritualize all these things. But remember this axiom on Revelation:

If the plain sense makes good sense seek no other sense lest it result in nonsense.

You see, nonsense is all you have been writing.
 
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