Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great

vinsight4u said:

Revelation 18 is about the regular Babylon. Only chapter 17 is about the mystery type of one.
Revelation 18 and 19 begin new visions. They are not continuing stories.

Click to expand...

Revelation 17: vision of the judgment of the great prostitute and it's meaning
Revelation 18: Judgment of Great prostitute who is Babylon the great
Revelation 19: Rejoicing over the judgment of the great prostitute

The woman (great prostitute) of revelation 17,19 and Babylon the great of Revelation 18 are the same, to say they are different is to completely ignore scripture:

1.) Whored the earth
The great prostitute: Revelation 17:2
With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:3
3For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

2.) Same clothing
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:4
the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls.
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:16
Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!

3.) Great City
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:10
Woe! Woe to you, great city, you mighty city of Babylon! In one hour your doom has come!’

4.) Brought to ruin in 1 hour
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:12,16
The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:19
Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

5.) punished for the blood of the saints and prophets
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:6, 19:2
saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
2for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:24
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

iamlamad said:

Good point! Of course the city per se, the brick and mortar is not what killed the prophets. It was the PEOPLE who lived there that were murders.

Click to expand...

No, it is the generation of vipers who are responsible for the blood of the prophets and Saints. It spanned from Cain to Second Coming. Not only those who lived to hear Christ said. They merely were part of it! They did not kill Seth physically but they are the same spiritual family of Satan. They had spiritual blindness that rejected the Truth. This generation of evil continued after the Cross, after the 70AD, after 1500 reformation, after 2000AD and it contiunes until Christ returns. This generation (of evil) shall not pass until all things are fulfilled. The generation of evil is the professed believers of the congregation, whether its old or new testament!

And it will be the PEOPLE, ie the Beast and False Prophet, that will turn the city of Jerusalem into MYSTERY BABYLON

Click to expand...

Sorry, you got wrong Jerusalem. The beast is a spiritual body of believers of Satan. They are the false prophets and christs today that turn the church that represents Jerusalem into what is spiritually is called Egypt and Sodom. It is all about the apostasy and desolation of New Testament congregation, Not physical city Jerusalem!

You see, the world outside of church, even the city Jersualem are already in Satan's camp. What Satan wants is the church that God has restrained Satan from for the past 2,000 years so that the church could be built with believers. Now the church is filled with TWO GROUPS of people, The Elect, and Professed Christians. It is the professed Christians who are under judgment of God when he allowed Satan to come in and deceive THOSE people, not the Elect to believe a lie! Can't you read the Scripture?

2Th 2:8-11
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is the judgment of the unfaithful New Testament congregation, Babylon the Great! This is where Satan rules through the false prophets and christ with the spirit of antichrist or foul spirit. They are the hateful birds!

Rev 18:2
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

God is talking about a congregation that ONCE WAS FAITHFUL REPRESENTASTIVE of God's kingdom on earth, but has BECOME the home of the devils (false prophets and christs) This is how Satan is revealed to us as his doctrines are coming out of fasle prophets and christs. This is taking place all over the WORLD, Gog and Magog!

This has NOTHING to do whatsoever with a piece of land in the Middle East or physical city of Jerusalem. You are being blind to look over there while not realizing we are under judgment in the church. What abominations do you see in the church? What did Christ warn when we see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place? Remember the church is the only holy place in this side of the Cross after the fall of old testament congregation. But guess you are too obsessed with the building of the so-called third temple in the physical city of Jerusalem to actually see the truth.

God's plan was that Jerusalem be the center to teach all people about the goodness of God, as in the Queen of Sheba, as an example. Instead, the Beast turns the city of Jerusalem into the greatest city of deception ever to exist on earth.

Click to expand...

No, God is talking about His congregation all over the world. This is where the rich of Gospel is found and where the armies of Satan wants to spoil, Eze 38:8-13.

claninja said:

4.) Brought to ruin in 1 hour
the great prostitute: Revelation 17:12,16
The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire
Babylon the great: Revelation 18:19
Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

Click to expand...

I will go ahead and pick number four your quoted so I can ask you questions:

1.) How will this prostitute get naked, exactly?

2.) What is her wealth? What happened to her wealth when she becomes desolate? And WHY?

3.) What did God mean by one hour to you?

Truth7t7 said:

Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
"That Great City" Babylon

Revelation 11:8KJV
"The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

Exodus 39KJV
Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

Matthew 23:37KJV
"Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
The harlot sits on seven mountains/hills.

Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

Ezekiel 16KJV
Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

8.) Revelation 17KJV
The Woman/harlot/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

Daniel 11:36-37KJV
The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

Jerusalem Is The harlot Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

Click to expand...

Hello Tuth7t7.

You may consider.

Revelations 17
18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.

Jerusalem never had authority over the kings of the earth, nor is Jerusalem considered a great city. Israel vanished from the face of the earth two thousand years ago, therefore the city of Jerusalem, is not even a possibility.

Rome for example reigned over the kings of the earth and is considered a great city.

The city must reign over world powers!

iamlamad said:

At the time the Beast and False prophet are deceiving the world, there will be nations and LEADERS of nations, so John wrote, "kings."

Click to expand...

Please try to be logical here. Why would the beast and false prophet try to deceive the world if the world is already in Satan's camp? That does not make any sense here. Satan is not attacking his own kingdom. Selah!

God is talking about the GENTILES (unsaved) which is also known as "nations" IN HIS CONGREGATION. They are the professed Christians who have not yet been sealed by God.

Didn't you read the Scripture?

Rev 9:4-6
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

The "in those days" are referring to the Great Tribulation period where men cannot find death. Now tell me why can't Man find death or death flee from them. What death is this, really? Physical death? NO! Think about it for a second! How will these men be different from those who DO HAVE the seal of God? Did these sealed people experience death? Yes! So what death was it that the professed Christians could not experience? Stop depends on your carnal mind and thinks about what God actually talk about here!

Yes, the harlot is the MYSTERY city of Jerusalem: the city that deceives the world.

Click to expand...

Sigh.... how can a physical city deceive the unsaved population of the world who are already in Satan camp, tell me?!

She "reigns" over because she deceived the entire world. It will be mostly JEWS that God is telling to flee. Jerusalem, the real city, will be captured. Some will be carried away as slaves - probably the woman and children. The men will be slain. The city will be burned - as much as stone and stucco etc can be burned.

Click to expand...

Noooo. but that is what happens when one is listening to too much garbage on youtube or from false televangelists.

Truth7t7 said:

Revelation 17 in verses

Click to expand...

Hello Truth7t7.

You may need to expand on what you said.

TribulationSigns said:

Please try to be logical here. Why would the beast and false prophet try to deceive the world if the world is already in Satan's camp? That does not make any sense here. Satan is not attacking his own kingdom. Selah!

God is talking about the GENTILES (unsaved) which is also known as "nations" IN HIS CONGREGATION. They are the professed Christians who have not yet been sealed by God.

Didn't you read the Scripture?

Rev 9:4-6
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

The "in those days" are referring to the Great Tribulation period where men cannot find death. Now tell me why can't Man find death or death flee from them. What death is this, really? Physical death? NO! Think about it for a second! How will these men be different from those who DO HAVE the seal of God? Did these sealed people experience death? Yes! So what death was it that the professed Christians could not experience? Stop depends on your carnal mind and thinks about what God actually talk about here!



Sigh.... how can a physical city deceive the unsaved population of the world who are already in Satan camp, tell me?!



Noooo. but that is what happens when one is listening to too much garbage on youtube or from false televangelists.

Click to expand...

Logic is good, but we also must go with what the word says.

Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes, I will agree that the world is in his camp. But he wants the world to worship him. Isn't that what Satan wanted in the beginning? He has not changed. I will agree, Buddhists already worship Him, but not as GOD. He will convince the world that He is the very same god of the Jews and God of the Muslims. Logic here, at least your logic, must bow to the word of God. If people worship the Beast, and behind the Beast, worship the devil, are they not deceived? Of course they are.

You missed it again! It is ISRAEL, from all 12 tribes, that get sealed. And yes, they are sealed for their protection during the trumpet judgments. The church, which will have been raptured at this sealing will have the seal of the Holy Spirit within them and will be caught up and taken out of the world.

Sorry, but you missed it again! The trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week, not the second half. The days of GT that Jesus spoke of will not begin until after the midpoint and then after the False prophet shows up.

You missed it yet again! Of course he is speaking of physical death! These stings of the little flying beasties do not kill, they just make people wish they could die. God controls whether or not the human spirit will leave the body and the body cease to function. At this time God is not going to allow physical death. God is sending these trumpet judgments and He will not allow anyone to escape.

You missed it again! There is not one scripture that shows us these 144,000 sealed ones die. I rather think they are raptured. Rev. 14 shows us they are around the throne in heaven. How did they get there?

You missed it again. Just because your theories differ from mine does not mean my mind is carnal. However, it probably makes you feel better to say that.

How can a physical city deceive? Don't be silly! A city of buildings and streets cannot deceive. But the Beast and False prophet FROM that city can deceive. The tower of Babel was not at fault: it was the people who were building it.

In reality you have no idea where or how I learn. So you missed it yet again. I may watch John Wayne on TV. I did last night. But I get my beliefs from studying the word, praying in the Spirit and waiting on God. And I certainly come up with different answers than I see here.

I am reminded of the famous quote by Socrates: the ills of the whole world are caused by those who think they know, when in fact, they don't.

TribulationSigns wrote,

No, it is the generation of vipers who are responsible for the blood of the prophets and Saints. It spanned from Cain to Second Coming. Not only those who lived to hear Christ said. They merely were part of it! They did not kill Seth physically but they are the same spiritual family of Satan. They had spiritual blindness that rejected the Truth. This generation of evil continued after the Cross, after the 70AD, after 1500 reformation, after 2000AD and it contiunes until Christ returns. This generation (of evil) shall not pass until all things are fulfilled. The generation of evil is the professed believers of the congregation, whether its old or new testament!

Click to expand...

Sorry, but Gentiles had nothing to do with killing the prophets. That was Israel.

TribulationSigns wrote,

Sorry, you got wrong Jerusalem. The beast is a spiritual body of believers of Satan. They are the false prophets and christs today that turn the church that represents Jerusalem into what is spiritually is called Egypt and Sodom. It is all about the apostasy and desolation of New Testament congregation, Not physical city Jerusalem!

Click to expand...

You can believe this if you choose, but you will be mistaken. The "Beast" is a man. Before he becomes "the beast" of Revelation 13, he is the "man of sin" Paul talked about.

I will give you this: OF COURSE the man turned Beast will have people following him. He will have Gentile armies to do his bidding. My guess is, they will be Muslim armies.

Say what you want: the Beast and False prophet will be IN JERUSALEM - the city - because that is where the REAL Jesus will come.

TribulationSigns said:

You see, the world outside of church, even the city Jersualem are already in Satan's camp. What Satan wants is the church that God has restrained Satan from for the past 2,000 years so that the church could be built with believers. Now the church is filled with TWO GROUPS of people, The Elect, and Professed Christians. It is the professed Christians who are under judgment of God when he allowed Satan to come in and deceive THOSE people, not the Elect to believe a lie! Can't you read the Scripture?

Click to expand...

Yes, of course I can, but my goal is to discover the Author's intent. Many of these "professing Christians" will still be born again. For some it may be after the rapture before they wake up. Some won't and will get the strong delusion. Please understand, God does not wish to push people away from His Gospel! He wants them to repent and come to Him. "Repent" is found ten times in Revelation. God will never force "strong delusion" upon people. But for those that reject Jesus Christ, they will receive this strong delusion. Did you take note that Muslims reject Jesus Christ? The truth is, Jesus is the SON, and GOD at the same time. Billions reject this truth. All of Islam, all of Buddhism and so many others reject it. And yes, some who live in the US and believe they are Christian also reject it.

TribulationSigns said:

2Th 2:8-11
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is the judgment of the unfaithful New Testament congregation, Babylon the Great! This is where Satan rules through the false prophets and christ with the spirit of antichrist or foul spirit. They are the hateful birds!

Click to expand...

WRONG! They are people who reject Jesus, not "Babylon the Great." God himself said it was the great city, and elsewhere told us the "great city" was Jerusalem. I see you don't believe what John wrote, prompted by the Holy Spirit. It is always good to believe what is written!

TribulationSigns said:

Rev 18:2
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Click to expand...

Once the Beast and False prophet move into Jerusalem (and make no mistake: they WILL) Where will Satan be? He will be possessing the Beast! So Satan's headquarters will move to Jerusalem also. And with that move, all the demons will headquarter in Jerusalem also.

TribulationSigns said:

God is talking about a congregation that ONCE WAS FAITHFUL REPRESENTASTIVE of God's kingdom on earth, but has BECOME the home of the devils (false prophets and christs) This is how Satan is revealed to us as his doctrines are coming out of fasle prophets and christs. This is taking place all over the WORLD, Gog and Magog!

Click to expand...

I think you have completely missed the intent of the Author. Devils are demonic spirits, not people.

TribulationSigns said:

This has NOTHING to do whatsoever with a piece of land in the Middle East or physical city of Jerusalem. You are being blind to look over there while not realizing we are under judgment in the church. What abominations do you see in the church? What did Christ warn when we see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place? Remember the church is the only holy place in this side of the Cross after the fall of old testament congregation. But guess you are too obsessed with the building of the so-called third temple in the physical city of Jerusalem to actually see the truth.

Click to expand...

It has everything to do with a physical city. that is where Satan will headquarter for most of the last half of the week. The "abomination" standing in the holy place will be an image in the temple in Jerusalem!
I really don't believe much of what you write.

Hello Truth7t7.

Thanks for the clarification.

Revelation 17 shows the "Beast Kingdom" ruling from Jerusalem, who will reign over the future Kings of the earth.

Click to expand...

The city identified in Revelations 17, rules over many nations.

Revelation 17:1
I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters...

Jerusalem has never ruled over the nations of the world, and never will.

This city that John writes about John does not know.

Revelation 17:6-7
When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...

If this woman was Jerusalem I can assure you that John would have recognized her. The fact that John is unable to identify the city, is proof that she is a future city that will control the nations, unknown to John.

You look at historical, chapter 17 is future and through the Beast in Jerusalem, the entire world will worship the Beast/Antichrist "Those Who's Names Are Not In The Book Of Life"

Click to expand...

Yes T7t7, a future city from the time that John wrote Revelations, certainly not historical from John's viewpoint.

Revelation 16:12-21 is a glimpse at the Beast, False Prophet. False Miracles, Through Devils In Deception, They Will Reign Over The Kings Of The Earth "From Jerusalem"

Click to expand...

No one can decide who own Jerusalem even to this very day, yet theocratic Rome in the future, ruled the world with an iron fist.

Jerusalem is not even a possibility, Rome is the best option currently available.

Many believe a future Temple will be built in Jerusalem, I do.

Click to expand...

Israel is a secular nation, Israel has no use for a temple.

Many believe animal sacrifice will resume in this Temple, I do.

Click to expand...

I can assure you that animal sacrifices will never occur again, this is the twenty first century after all.

Many Believe the Beast/Antichrist will stop a future sacrifice, I do.

Click to expand...

The sacrificial system ceased two thousand years ago, these prophecies have already been fulfilled.

Do you think the future Temple, Beast, Antichrist, will be in Iraq-Babylon or Rome-Italy?

Click to expand...

No need for a temple not in the modern era.

Jerusalem Is The Answers To The Mystery, Very Simple To See

Click to expand...

Jerusalem, the theocratic city of ancient Israel, will never be seen again this idea ended
2000 years ago.

iamlamad said:

Sorry, but Gentiles had nothing to do with killing the prophets. That was Israel.

Click to expand...

First, God is not talking about national Israel here. It is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the church. She is a holy city on this side of the Cross, not physical Jerusalem. Consider wisely:

Rev 11:1-2
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The Holy City is God's congregation on earth making up of two groups of people inside the church:

1.) True Elect - who are measured (sealed by God) to be part of Temple, and worship therein.

2.) Professed Christians - who are NOT measured (not sealed by God), are in the court, but professed to be part of the Holy City in name only.

Many are called into the church but few are chosen! Now...

3.) The Gentiles OUTSIDE the Holy City are heathens.

Now ask yourself a question, why do you think God has decided to give up the court of the city filled with professed Christians to the Gentiles?

iamlamad said:

Yes, of course I can, but my goal is to discover the Author's intent. Many of these "professing Christians" will still be born again.

Click to expand...

According to who? You or God? He is clear that they will NOT have a chance to be born again DURING THE TORMENT, if you ever know what torment of a scorpion is!

Rev 9:3-6
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Let see if you can find scorpion elsewhere in Scripture yourself to see what Christ is really talked about! And do you even know what "death" God is talking about in verse 6?! Something you have failed to research WITH SCRIPTURE? And no it is not about literal flying beasties and physical death.

What about five months? Do you know what it represents? I am asking you questions here to see if you know how to use Scripture for the answer! Not personal opinion.

Come on, do your homework with Scripture with chapter and verses for once, not an assumption based on your carnal indoctrination.

"Jerusalem Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great." So lets break this down. So do the people there know this about them selfs? Well I dont think that city is alive. So... you do understand you called men woman children this name right?

Theres this GOD..that came in the flesh.. and REV 3:20 is where He lives if you know Him. And when He left the Sweetsweet Holy Spirit is here.. ooh and HE TALKS! Did you run this past Him? Just asking

klutedavid said:

Hello Truth7t7.

Thanks for the clarification.

The city identified in Revelations 17, rules over many nations.

Revelation 17:1
I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters...

Jerusalem has never ruled over the nations of the world, and never will.

This city that John writes about John does not know.

Revelation 17:6-7
When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...

If this woman was Jerusalem I can assure you that John would have recognized her. The fact that John is unable to identify the city, is proof that she is a future city that will control the nations, unknown to John.

Yes T7t7, a future city from the time that John wrote Revelations, certainly not historical from John's viewpoint.

No one can decide who own Jerusalem even to this very day, yet theocratic Rome in the future, ruled the world with an iron fist.

Jerusalem is not even a possibility, Rome is the best option currently available.

Israel is a secular nation, Israel has no use for a temple.

I can assure you that animal sacrifices will never occur again, this is the twenty first century after all.

The sacrificial system ceased two thousand years ago, these prophecies have already been fulfilled.

No need for a temple not in the modern era.

Jerusalem, the theocratic city of ancient Israel, will never be seen again this idea ended
2000 years ago.

Click to expand...

You are mistaken. Worse, you don't even know you are mistaken.

Rev. 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

And WHERE is the Beast when all that dwell upon the earth worship him? Where is he when power is given to him over all nations?

The answer is, JERUSALEM. Of course that is where anyone would go when they want to imitate or make believe they are Christ.

TribulationSigns said:

According to who? You or God? He is clear that they will NOT have a chance to be born again DURING THE TORMENT, if you ever know what torment of a scorpion is!

Rev 9:3-6
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Let see if you can find scorpion elsewhere in Scripture yourself to see what Christ is really talked about! And do you even know what "death" God is talking about in verse 6?! Something you have failed to research WITH SCRIPTURE? And no it is not about literal flying beasties and physical death.

What about five months? Do you know what it represents? I am asking you questions here to see if you know how to use Scripture for the answer! Not personal opinion.

Come on, do your homework with Scripture with chapter and verses for once, not an assumption based on your carnal indoctrination.

Click to expand...

Yours is the writing of someone who thinks they know, when in fact, they don't. Prove to us by scripture that no one can be born again during the 70th week - that is, if you can. Remember, I wrote that John used "repent" ten times. Here is an example:

Revelation 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

From this we can ascertain that God WANTED people to repent, but they would not. However, we still find saints on earth - after the rapture. We find 144,000 from Israel that become believers. Therefore we know that many WILL turn to God during the 70th week. Here God is only angry with those who refuse to repent.

So you wish to take something literal and make it spiritual? Sorry, anyone can make any scripture say anything by doing this. I refuse. When John tells us there will be flying locusts with stings like scorpions, I will take him at his word.

I guess you have a theory about the 5 months and about these locusts. I have scripture. The purpose of these locusts is to inflict PAIN - physical pain. I am reminded of God sending hornets in the Old Testament. Think of it: God is sending terrible torment - pain so severe that men want to die. And yes, it is physical death then want, to end the pain.

I am looking forward to your theories.

TribulationSigns said:

First, God is not talking about national Israel here. It is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the church. She is a holy city on this side of the Cross, not physical Jerusalem. Consider wisely:

Click to expand...

Sorry, but anyone that denies the reality of the nation of Israel as the Israel God made promises to is far far off course.

Did you just ignore John in the sealing of the 12,000 men from each tribe? I guess you spiritualize that too! Until you being taking scripture literally, you will be off in a ditch one one or the other side of the road.

Jerusalem has a lot to answer for!