Why is Babylon the Great a Mystery?

Radagast said:

Well, no. In the N.T., the Church are the good guys.

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Obviously you do not know how Covenant Kingdom works. There is the earthly Covenant Kingdom, through the church, which both believers AND unbelievers are part of. The short version is that "there are two groups spoken about as Covenant people." There are the children that represent the Covenant. And then there are the true covenant children. Just like God says that there was Israel, and then there was Israel, meaning only one was the true Israel of God.

Romans 9:4

• "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"

There are all the children who were/are part of the covenant Kingdom of God, and then there are true born of God covenant children, the seed of Christ, which is only a remnant. It's my experience that "this" is where most of the confusion comes it. People like you lack of distinguishing between the two. These are all children of the Kingdom, yes, BUT one of these groups is by profession only!

Matthew 25:1-2

• "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
• And five of them were wise, and five were foolish."

This imagery is of all the Covenanted kingdom children, but only five of them are truly saved that they will enter into the true kingdom of God. Just like there were many "of" the Covenanted congregation Israel, but only a remnant was truly saved Israel. In simple terms, there is a visible Covenant kingdom on earth (the Congregations or Churches) within which are both saved and unsaved professing Christians. And then there is the indivisible Covenant kingdom on earth (the true body of Christ) and all these elect have all been washed in the blood of the Lamb. They are both called children of the kingdom. Just as God called all Israel His Covenant People, children of the kingdom collectively, and yet only a remnant of them were His people spiritually. Likewise, the congregation today are His Covenant People, children of the kingdom collectively, and yet not all of them are redeemed either. That's why God in scripture could declare that He pours out His wrath out on "His People." Because they are only His people "externally," not eternally. God never pours out His wrath on His True (saved) eternal people.

Matthew 23:37-38

• "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

This is Lord's Old Testament Covenant congregation could only be left desolate "because" they were the external Covenant Kingdom. Likewise, the Lord's New Testament Covenant congregation today (the Church) can only be left desolate because they are are the external Covenant kingdom. It's the only place where apostasy can stand, where the man of sin can rule in God's house. This is Babylon the Great which is a mystery to those who do not really understand the Covenant relationship of the church with God.

Again...the external "Covenant or Promissory Kingdom" is that special relationship that God has with those who are called by His name. They are Covenanted by their own consent and profession to be part of the children of God. It is a conditional covenant. In the time before the cross, it was the Old covenant congregation of Israel. Which is also why it fell in 32AD when Christ spoke it. They were the one who has broken the covenant. However, AFTER the cross, the church is NOW the Covenant congregation made up of all nations! The congregation takes the name of God, and with it comes the responsibility. The church, too, can fall in like manner as Old Israel did. There are conditional promises implicitly made to the external covenant community (the visible church) Israel, and rebellion means God's judgment upon it. Of course keeping these precepts will save no one, but they are there to direct the "true believers" to the object of faith that can, which is Christ! For example, the desire to faithfully keep God's laws are one of the evidences of faith and true love, not a reason for covenant salvation.

An external covenant congregation exists to be the outward sign of our professed relationship with God. Just as the nation Israel was the outward sign of God's people. Even in a sense, as circumcision or water baptism was/is an outward sign of a Covenant (promissory) relationship with God. It didn't/doesn't mean that everyone that took this profession or sign was redeemed or saved, but rather that they received that covenant signification, made them externally God's covenant people. The same principle here. And indeed this is how/why the signification could be taken away and given to another group entirely. Obviously!

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Clearly, God is declaring that the Old Testament external covenant congregation (representation of God's covenant people) is no longer the nation of Israel. It's "taken from" the nation of Israel. It was then "given to" the church as a world congregation, made up of all peoples! This is the very same covenant concept that God illustrates in the symbolism of the Gentile branches being grafted into Israel, the external Covenant Olive Tree. In other words, this New Testament Congregation is now the Kingdom of God represented on earth. The covenant kingdom representation (taken from Israel) has been given to them. And they likewise can be branches of this Olive tree "cut off" by unbelief in the last days, just as Israel was, if they fall into unbelief. So again, obviously, you misunderstood that this has NOTHING to do with an eternal Covenant relationship (saved believers), but an external one (the professed believers) One that can be broken by unbelief.

So to claim that the church as a whole is a "good guys," that somehow must be immunity from God's judgment, does not know the Scripture nor covenant kingdom relationship.

Jonathan Leo said:

No, the beast is the worlds leaders. The beast has ten horns. The beast it the worlds system
Satans Spirit/demons are in the beast.

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The beast is not a man nor world leaders. The beast is a kingdom, a body of Satan, which makes up of people who come with a spirit of antichrist.

Besides, do you even know what is God's definition for the horns in Scripture? What does the number 10 represents in Scripture? Show me what you understand by doing some homework with Scripture yourself, not what false prophets tell you who they are. (hint: they are not ten nations nor ten men).

Jonathan Leo said:

Catholism seems like the Babylon, so does Muslim

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Revealing Times said:

There are SEVEN HEADS (Beast Kingdoms over Israel, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the ANTI-CHRIST) The Last Beast A MAN, will have 10 Kings that GIVE THEIR POWERS unto him freely........The Bible explains itself: Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The Beast is a MAN......

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Nope.

Again, here is what you need to do while researching with Scripture, not author books or world news. Why? Because interpretations belong to God and we need to search it out in SCRIPTURE and allow it to interpret itself!

1.) What is God's defination for the heads in Scripture?
2.) What is spiritual signification for number seven in Scripture?
3.) What is God's definition of the horns in Scripture?
4.) what is spiritual signification for number ten in Scripture?

Then we will go from there "IF" you surrender to Scripture!

Truth7t7 said:

We will disagree, as the early church fathers mentioned, also taught of a "Literal Human Man" to fulfill the role of Daniel 11:36-37 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

We will disagree, your symbolic representation of "Sinful Man" isnt the interpretation I see.

Thanks for the response

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Of course, you could not see it because you do not have the spirit of Christ to discern what Christ actually talked about. You are forcing the Scripture (eg. beast, little horn, king, man of sin, etc.) to be a human man to fit your faulty literalism doctrine because an assumption is not Scripture and supposition is no way to learn what God is teaching in this event. We cannot interpret Scripture by supposing anything, but by comparing Scripture with Scripture, bringing the word into harmony with itself, because an assumption is the mother of errors. This is the problem in eschatology as well. Too much assumption rather than an actual study of the Scriptures allowing God to interpret His own word.

Revealing Times said:

Brother, I know you from other Message board sites, not being ugly, but I do not pay any attention to what you say as per eschatology, it just doesn't seem to be your calling. Yo might be great on other things pertaining unto the bible, but your views as pertaining to eschatology is not something that I see as being in the least bit informative.

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Oh sure! I do not know you or do I care who you are, but you are saying things that you could not be able to do your homework yourself. Your eschatology position is indeed incorrect, so prove me otherwise with Scripture.

I do not care if you know me from somewhere else, but I am waiting for your biblical response to my questions for all to see!

Truth7t7 said:

You have judged my eternal destiny stating I dont have the "Holy Spirit Of Christ" because I disagree with your views of eschatology?

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Since who said it has to do with your salvation?

No, I was saying that you do not have the spirit of Christ (wisdom) in order to discern what God said prophetically. Nothing to do with Salvation which is up to God's Grace. The knowledgeable of Eschatology does not determine salvation.

I strongly suggest you refrain from "False Accusation" of the God Fearing Christian.

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Obviously, you misunderstood my intent!