Jesus Told Many They Would Live to See His Coming.

98cwitr said:

From the OP




(Full) preterism is controversial theology, yes. See Statement of Purpose in this forum (stickied at the top) if you need more info. Otherwise, feel free to PM me.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

Well you say he was here one time and will come back one time. I say he has been coming down to earth multiple times both before he became a man and afterwards. The discussion needs to focus on this particular time in Matthew 24. Mark, 13 and Luke 21.
To address my "stringecy" on placing the word "second" in front of the word coming? Its not me that is stringent on the matter. About 20% of evangelical Christianity calls the doctrine of the "second" coming an essential truth. Meaning you can't even be a real Christian unless you accept it. So the other 80% don't agree with that but wait! You just try saying you don't believe in a "second" coming and watch the very first thing any pastor in this country will ask you. "Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and died for the sins of mankind and rose from the dead?" In other words they treat it as an almost essential truth. Yet the word phrase send coming does not exist in the Bible. It is a doctrine of man that has blinded millions of beleivers to the great truths of scripture that are aimed at eventually setting billions of believers free from oppressors. So lets stick to Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 for now.

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vinsight4u said:

The final week is yet to come. It will also bring back out of limbo the prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11. This prophecy caused Daniel to supplicate at the beginning of Daniel 9. Daniel realized that the Babylonian kingdom fell to the Medes when Babylon had time yet to rule the nations. Babylon will rise again and finish the transgression at the holy site. See how it says - consummation? Daniel 9:27
It shows that only one Babylonian king is yet to come that will do the desolations of that verse.

Daniel 9 tells the reason why Gabriel came to Daniel. He was given the command due to Daniel had been supplicating over the words written by Jeremiah. Realize too, that it is not just a time of 70 weeks determined that Gabriel told to Daniel, but a time also of unto the end of the war desolations are determined. That was the time of Titus. It was not part of the 70 weeks events that are also determined in the prophecy message.

unto the end of the war - determined
final week- desolations -that determined
70 weeks are determined - to finish the transgression
The time of Titus destroying the city and the sanctuary was not a part of the 70 weeks.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

Because it is a direct threat to the will of God and the welfare of billions of people.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

I answered a similar complaint in this thread but I certainly would not expect someone to read every comment and see it. So I'll say it again and try to clarity it a little more.

The terms and the harshness are a tactic not a mannerism on my part because of the present circumstances. The reason for this is people need to get passionate enough about this to think on it some. There is such an overwhelming consensus and group think about this that they will not unless someone comes along and stirs their emotions. Yes even get them angry. What I am directly referring to is the doctrine expressed by a phrase that does not exist in the Bible. "The second" coming. The phrase itself is an interpretation of Bible prophecy. It is not Bible prophecy but via and overwhelming consensus and a very dangerous group think it is treated as Bible prophecy. Let me express this another way.

I don't know exactly what groups of Christians these are but I hear it all the time and see it statements of faith. That "the second" coming is an essential truth like belief in the death burial and resurrection essential. If you don't it shows your not a real Christian and not heaven bound. I estimate that 20% of evangelicals hold this. But that is not the bottom line. The other 80% although not claiming its an essential truth treat it as such. Because if you were to say you don't believe in the "second" coming, just the coming of the Lord. Then the first questions your going to get will be based on them believing your not a real Christian. "Have you accepted Jesus and your personal savior. etc. etc. If this phrase was of anything near the prominence they are placing in it, it would be in scripture. You would see the Greek word for second and the Greek word for coming in the same sentence probably a dozen times. It's not there once. This indicates that the evangelical\Pentecostal world is under a heavy influence of a sectarian spirit. So much so that I am having to use a tactic to get them passionate, even angry over the subject to cause them to think.......otherwise the sleep feels just fine.

What does it matter? Come on. If every time the Bible talks about the coming or day the Lord it is taking about a one time event at the end of the world then how on earth are you to determine the times and seasons of multiple prophecies about multiple events some spread out over a thousand years? You cannot. How are you supposed to figure out what prophecies are for today and what ones applied to another age? What proof can you have for your faith if not given through the word? We have a million people a day teaching\prophesying that we are in the end times of the world as we know it. Yet the opposite is actually happening, the Gospel is becoming more influential world wide. A billion people have become Christians in the last 50 years. Another 2 billion will in the next 50 years. They are changing their world the same way our Christian ancestors changed the world we live in and there is well over a hundred chapters of Bible prophecy that says this would happen in this age we live in. But here we have these teaching the end is near. Maybe for them, maybe for them.

That is why. It is necessary at this time. It is time for western Christians to arise from their slumber and anoint their eyes and Christ shall give them light. The pop culture end time teachings are self fulfilling. God has a different plan.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

The reason I usually do not answer you Vinsight4u is because of your method of debate. That being said. Surprisingly I agree with you that the 6th seal of Revelation is a different prophecy about the same thing in Matthew 24. I obliviously disagree with you that it is talking about anything other than the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Below is a section of my article on the internet called: End Time Prophecy
This part of it starting with Revelation 6 shows what I say about all the seals including the sixth one are referring to. I already know you'll disagree., If you throw a dozen prophecies back to me from other parts of the Bible that you place within the context of what you believe I will not answer you. I'm only doing this because you might find it interesting and because you properly indentified the 6th seal as part of the the same prophecy as Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21.

Revelation Chapter Six​

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, what sounded like the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. 3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given to him a great sword. 5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and saw a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see you don't hurt not the oil and the wine. 7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. In these first verses of the book that was sealed we are again looking at the four empires as prophesied in the book of Daniel. One of the reasons this can be easily ascertained is that this whole vision from Revelation 6-11 is repeated in Revelation 13-19 with more familiar symbolism than these horsemen.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
These are believers that perished at the hands of the wicked over those centuries. A little more specifically though. They are the ones Christ refers to many times in his prophecies and denunciations of kings and leaders of Israel. Matthew 23: 29. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, 30. And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31. Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32.Finish then what your ancestors started. 33. You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? 34. Therefore, look, I will send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them you shall beat in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36. Truly I say to you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that murder the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not! 38. Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
Notice who Christ is referencing in this word. Just like Revelation 6:9-11, the saints of the Old Testament that were murdered and the saints of the New Testament that were yet to be persecuted and murdered. This judgment and prophecy that the Messiah is rendering against Jerusalem directly proceeds his prophecy in Matthew 24 about the end of the first covenant age. In practicality it is part of that prophecy. Similar words of judgment proceed all three accounts of the Lords prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. John's vision precisely mimics Jesus's prophecy. That the cries of the saints of the Old Testament who were persecuted and murdered will be answered after the saints, the followers of the messiah in the New Testament are subjected to the same treatment. Then in these next verses that judgment falls upon Jerusalem.
Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, look, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
These verses even use some of the same illustrative language that Jesus uses when referencing the same events of the first century. Some of them are hyperlinked to those locations. A word about the illustrative pictures and language of prophecy before going on to the next chapter. As an example: the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; If this were a literal event rather than illustrative language all life on planet earth would end. Yet there are still chapters ahead with life on the planet. It is a shame that something like this would even have to be pointed out to illustrate the absurdity that passes as serious Bible prophecy teaching in the world today.

Revelation Chapter Seven​

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 about the destruction of Jerusalem was spoken to explain to those who would take heed how they might escape it. In that discourse he first teaches those who were listening what would be going on in the interim period so as to keep them focused on their ministries instead of on their escape. He did this by telling them such and such will be happening but the time has not come. Then he focuses on telling them what will be happening up until the time arrives. After this he tells them the specific sign that heralds the end and how to make their escape.
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and families, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be to our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and where did they come from? 14 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sits on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
In Revelation 7:9-17 John is seeing the multitudes that came to Christ during the time of the Roman Empire before it permanently split into an eastern and western branch and the city of Rome was depopulated (546 A.D.) It is important that it notes that these came out of great tribulation. It does this as a prophecy and to show the righteous judgment of God's response to this persecution and murder. (Perhaps it would be better stated; the effects, of persecuting and murdering the righteous.) It was illegal to be a Christian in the empire during these first three centuries. The penalty was death. Under most emperors Christians were not actively hunted down. Typically those that were accused were given the choice to offer a sacrifice to the Roman gods and the emperor. Upon doing so all was forgiven. Eventually the numbers and influence of Christians became so great that Emperor Diocletian and a couple of others decided to rid the empire of them. At this point they were actively hunted down in most of the empire. A link will be provided to go over some of that information eventually. Christians suffered this same fate in other empires of the world that they went to.
Revelation Chapter 8-9
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thundering's, and lightning's, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Now the attention of this prophecy turns to the Roman empire. The righteousness and the salvation that the saints are bringing is being answered with persecution from the powers that be. Their prayers are symbolic of this and thus the righteous judgment of God manifested. These seven judgments were to come upon the Roman Empire, specifically at the city of Rome. The empire itself is spared total destruction and carries on. The city of Rome though ceases to be the seat of the empire. These seven judgments that were empire wide but aimed specifically at the city of Rome are assumed to be seven literal calamities. The author is not familiar enough with this time of history to write specifically about each judgment and what actually occurred. Perhaps in the future a link will be provided for this. The sixth judgment was possibly the invasions of the Huns and eventual empire of Attila. Also, Rome was sacked three times (perhaps the three woe's) during this time period. The third time in 546 A.D. when Totila, King of the Ostrogoths marks the end point of these particular judgments.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

Because it is a direct threat to the will of God and the welfare of billions of people.

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2tim_215 said:

I noticed this thread just now and I haven't looked at the all posts (so someone may have already said what I'm about to share) but I believe I can provide an explanation for some of this confusion, so here goes (I apologize if someone has already posted this). Listing each one of those verses again:
Matthew 16:27(KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:28(KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
I believe (in all 3 cases), Jesus is speaking of two different events, 1 in verse 27 and the other in verse 28. In 27, He is speaking of a future event which hasn't occurred yet, which we read about later in the New Testament (end times). The 2nd event occurs shortly thereafter, in the next chapter of Matthew, starting in verse 1 (which is where Chapter 16 left off) which is when Jesus takes 3 of His disciples onto the Mount of Transfiguration where Jesus is transformed into His glorious self, and Moses and Elijah "magically" appear with Him. It was Peter, John and James who I believe that Jesus was referring to when He made the statement that some would see the Kingdom (verse 28) and what Jesus would like when He returns to this earth in His glory. We see this repeat itself in all 3 gospels.
Matthew 17:1-8(KJV) And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Mark 8:38(KJV) Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Note that again He's speaking of the day that He comes to the Earth with His angels to put down all unrighteousness and establish His kingdom here on earth and Mark 9:1 is the continuation hich comes at the end of chapter 8.
Mark 9:1-13(KJV) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Next is the Mount of Transfiguration:
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Luke 9:26(KJV) For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:27(KJV) But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:28-36(KJV) And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
His word holds true as Peter, James and John all saw this before they died. Hopes this helps to clear some of this up.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

I think your are being completely dishonest with the word, with God and with yourselfI at trying to connect those verses to the transfiguration. a number of folks have said this. I mean its the last sentence of a paragraph that has nothing to do with the transfiguration and then because the next paragraph has the transfiguration six days later you connect it to that?
By the way; are you getting this from a commentary? It's so disconnected to me that I cannot imagine people coming to this same the conlcusion on thier own. I just posted this to someone else a few minutes ago that I think fits well here to.
Your repeating pattern of many here that when verses and chapters that are using the same language as chapters and verses they authoritatively demand be recognized as a "second" coming and demand that they be taken literally. All of a sudden start straining at gnats and swallowing camels, splitting hairs and "spiritualizing" every thing. The very first verse you quoted . Look at the first half: Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. If a statement like: "he shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." were in Mathew 24, Mark 13 or Luke 21 or the book of Revelation there would be instant demands that it be taken "literally" as the resurrection or "the Great White Throne" judgment at the second coming etc etc. But now it must be spritualized since it won't fit into the idea of a one time end of the world as we know it event called "the second" coming.

Seriously, why? Were not the buildings and the city destroyed in 70 AD like Jesus said? Was there not horrendous tribulation that brought the war about? Were there not earthquakes, famines, and pestilences, false prophets and false Christ's all over the place? Did it not happen to the very generation he was speaking to exactly as predicted? Was he not speaking to the people in the second person for the entire prophecy? A fact that cannot be disputed if your going to follow any rules at all in the reading and understanding of literature. Did not the age end were God almost exclusively used the Hebrew people to herald the Word and the Gospel? Didn't the believers get delivered from the war? I spent a long time demonstrating that the highly illustrative verses were also fulfilled. Why the need for such gymnastics? I mean if the city and the sanctuary were not destroyed and the trials and tribulations elucidated didn't happen then I might see the point. By why the necessity to "spiritualize" the verses in your comment but not allow the same thing with the three chapters?

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Daniel Martinovich said:

I think your are being completely dishonest with the word, with God and with yourself at trying to connect those verses to the transfiguration. a number of folks have said this. I mean its the last sentence of a paragraph that has nothing to do with the transfiguration and then because the next paragraph has the transfiguration six days later you connect it to that?
By the way; are you getting this from a commentary? It's so disconnected to me that I cannot imagine people coming to this same the conlcusion on thier own. I just posted this to someone else a few minutes ago that I think fits well here to.
Your repeating pattern of many here that when verses and chapters that are using the same language as chapters and verses they authoritatively demand be recognized as a "second" coming and demand that they be taken literally. All of a sudden start straining at gnats and swallowing camels, splitting hairs and "spiritualizing" every thing. The very first verse you quoted . Look at the first half: Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. If a statement like: "he shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." were in Mathew 24, Mark 13 or Luke 21 or the book of Revelation there would be instant demands that it be taken "literally" as the resurrection or "the Great White Throne" judgment at the second coming etc etc. But now it must be spritualized since it won't fit into the idea of a one time end of the world as we know it event called "the second" coming.

Seriously, why? Were not the buildings and the city destroyed in 70 AD like Jesus said? Was there not horrendous tribulation that brought the war about? Were there not earthquakes, famines, and pestilences, false prophets and false Christ's all over the place? Did it not happen to the very generation he was speaking to exactly as predicted? Was he not speaking to the people in the second person for the entire prophecy? A fact that cannot be disputed if your going to follow any rules at all in the reading and understanding of literature. Did not the age end were God almost exclusively used the Hebrew people to herald the Word and the Gospel? Didn't the believers get delivered from the war? I spent a long time demonstrating that the highly illustrative verses were also fulfilled. Why the need for such gymnastics? I mean if the city and the sanctuary were not destroyed and the trials and tribulations elucidated didn't happen then I might see the point. By why the necessity to "spiritualize" the verses in your comment but not allow the same thing with the three chapters?

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Daniel Martinovich said:

Not not really. Especially since I define heresy very narrowly. Its the Greek word for sect. It really has nothing to do with a false teaching. People can become sectarian over something that is the truth just as easily as something that is false. A group of people goes full sectarian when they separate themselves from all other Christians and say their little group are the only ones with the truth. But I guess I can turn on the snark if that's all I am getting and believe me on some forums talking to leftists that is all I get.

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Daniel Martinovich said:

I answered a similar complaint in this thread but I certainly would not expect someone to read every comment and see it. So I'll say it again and try to clarity it a little more.

The terms and the harshness are a tactic not a mannerism on my part because of the present circumstances. The reason for this is people need to get passionate enough about this to think on it some. There is such an overwhelming consensus and group think about this that they will not unless someone comes along and stirs their emotions. Yes even get them angry. What I am directly referring to is the doctrine expressed by a phrase that does not exist in the Bible. "The second" coming. The phrase itself is an interpretation of Bible prophecy. It is not Bible prophecy but via an overwhelming consensus and a very dangerous group think it is treated as Bible prophecy. Let me express this another way.

I don't know exactly what groups of Christians these are but I hear it all the time and see it statements of faith. That "the second" coming is an essential truth like belief in the death burial and resurrection essential. If you don't it shows your not a real Christian and not heaven bound. I estimate that 20% of evangelicals hold this. But that is not the bottom line. The other 80% although not claiming its an essential truth treat it as such. Because if you were to say you don't believe in the "second" coming, just the coming of the Lord. Then the first questions your going to get will be based on them believing your not a real Christian. "Have you accepted Jesus and your personal savior. etc. etc. If this phrase was of anything near the prominence they are placing in it, it would be in scripture. You would see the Greek word for second and the Greek word for coming in the same sentence probably a dozen times. It's not there once. This indicates that the evangelical\Pentecostal world is under a heavy influence of a sectarian spirit. So much so that I am having to use a tactic to get them passionate, even angry over the subject to cause them to think.......otherwise the sleep feels just fine.

What does it matter? Come on. If every time the Bible talks about the coming or day the Lord it is talking about a one time event at the end of the world then how on earth are you to determine the times and seasons of multiple prophecies about multiple events some spread out over a thousand years? You cannot. How are you supposed to figure out what prophecies are for today and what ones applied to another age? What proof can you have for your faith if not given through the word? We have a million people a day teaching\prophesying that we are in the end times of the world as we know it. Yet the opposite is actually happening, the Gospel is becoming more influential world wide. A billion people have become Christians in the last 50 years. Another 2 billion will in the next 50 years. They are changing their world the same way our Christian ancestors changed the world we live in and there is well over a hundred chapters of Bible prophecy that says this would happen in this age we live in. But here we have these teaching the end is near. Maybe for them, maybe for them.

That is why. It is necessary at this time. It is time for western Christians to arise from their slumber and anoint their eyes and Christ shall give them light. The pop culture end time teachings are self fulfilling. God has a different plan.

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