Atheists /agnostic free thinkers or not?

mathinspiration said:

I had encountered intolerant atheists and agnostic who claim they are free thinkers and I find they are more intolerant than right winged conservative fundamentalists.

Click to expand...

Me too, I used to mock them here for claiming to be free thinkers/open minded.

I think they are basically claiming they don't need God to do their thinking for them, they are quite capable of dealing with life without having to have God as a pacifier. Probably making those claims is supposed to make the Christian feel inferior, while making the insecure Atheist feel superior.

Help them? Maybe, but not sure how, maybe by just being you/your actions as a Christian, but reasoning in that area is likely to not work at all. Help the ones that are open minded, the ones that want it, the others? Not much we can do aside from pray their eyes will be opened. God won't force anyone but I think he does put us in positions to make us think, the rest is up to us. He may even give you the right words to make them think, if you ask...it's certainly a noble request.

Only difference between us and them is we live by a set of rules from God. Where as they live by none. Theres nothing ruling their life. No code. No rules. No anything. They live freely and yet can't even agree with each other on what is right or wrong at times. Its why they do the things they do as I mentioned above. If they were capable of dealing with life they wouldn't be doing drugs, drinking, having casual sex, partying, wanting money....etc. These things make them feel safe, happy, better. Just as to us we feel the same way, but God brings us those feelings.

There "god" is what controls them. They make idols of everything. And look at their lifes from a bigger picture. The music they make, the things they do, the things they say. They are unhappy many times. They always complain about things and harass others. They feel sad or depressed about things. They feel life is pointless.

So really the actual difference between us is they are unhappy, we are not. We don't need drugs or drunkness or partying or money to be happy. We have God at the end of the day. Doesn't mean we don't have trials of course or that we don't need money for example. Money pays bills. But we are still happy. We don't fear death. We don't fear "what ifs". We know the ending to this story. Its written in the bible. They on the other hand don't know of any ending. In their minds life is pointless and short. Its all about having a good time with the life you have.

I feel sad for them. Not meant in a snarky way mind you. I feel sad they will never have true happiness. I feel sad they don't know life has a point. I feel sad they don't realize what happens when they die. I feel sad that they don't see how at peace christians are with life. And I feel most sad because they don't realize most christians can see through the facade they put on. We see they attack us to feel better about themselves because of how they feel deep down.

Its rare to get them to admit it though. Deep down in their core their inner self is thinking "Man, what if God is real?" and "If I am wrong do I want to go somewhere like hell?". They fear God. I think whats hard for them when it comes to God is not really about accepting God is real. But realizing they would have to take on values that would make the world hate them. Carrying the cross is a hard thing to do for christians, let along those who may consider becoming one. Its way easier for them to hate God and ignore your inner feelings because it makes you feel safer knowing the world will accept you.

So maybe along with fearing God they also fear the world being against them. Which is understandable. If you went to somewhere in the middle east and someone said "I'll give you $100,000 to go into a ISIS controlled village and proclaim you are a christian and God is real!", you would fear that! Fear is not easy to get over. Heck I used to fear death because I was confused. Now I am not confused anymore. If anything I'm very accepting of death. I know what happens after.

My concern about many atheists is their very narrow-minded perspective in terms of belief is proving counter-productive even in non-religous matters like science and engineering.

In the past, I had some fairly radical ideas that unbelieving engineers have dismissed outright and even talked me down, well... until Lockheed Martin, an very large aerospace company, made something closely similar to my ideas some time later to achieve the same objectives. If they took me seriously the first time, they would have something quite advanced at a much earlier time.

I also had ideas that was treated in the same manner by reputable PhD holders in MIT, until again, my hunches were proved correct by another group.

Anyway, I am an inventor and I sometimes develop theories and solutions for practical applications. I haven't made any breakthroughs yet, unless when other people or other companies I am totally not connected were able to prove my ideas independently.

mathinspiration said:

How do you help people who claim to be open minded or even good christians or religious people but they are tolerant to others, other beliefs and are bias because of something? I had encountered intolerant atheists and agnostic who claim they are free thinkers and I find they are more intolerant than right winged conservative fundamentalists.

Click to expand...

Some people just cannot be helped.. only The Holy Spirit can do that. The Holy Spirit might be able to use you in that process by bringing them to enquire of you in humbleness, because although they seem to ridicule you in their contention, it is within His power to remind them that you have a respectable Christian knowledge when it matters to them. Take to heart Matthew 7:6 and Jeremiah 15:19 because it can help to develop a more noble quality (Galatians 4:18).

Remember that these ones have chosen to not give due honour to Jesus Christ, so they have yielded their mind to demonic thinking. Jesus still pursues them though (Genesis 6:3), and He orchestrates (Matthew 28:18) to bring them to a place of genuine seeking (Isaiah 45:7). The proper place for such rebels is found in Genesis 3:15 and Luke 10:19, though the proper way to handle them is a bit more complex (Matthew 10:16, Ephesians 2:1-8, 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 4:5-6).

I have loved ones in my life who are atheist/agnostic, very boastfully so. Honestly, I feel very sorry for them. I know what it's like to live as if I'm the most important person in the world, and I know what it's like to give that life over to our Lord and Savior and make Him the foundation of my existence. If I could flip a switch and let my atheist/agnostic friends experience that, even for five minutes, I would. but I don't control that switch, God does, and it's called grace. Each and every day I am thankful for the blessings He has given me in restoring my life for Him.

mathinspiration said:

How do you help people who claim to be open minded or even good christians or religious people but they are tolerant to others, other beliefs and are bias because of something? I had encountered intolerant atheists and agnostic who claim they are free thinkers and I find they are more intolerant than right winged conservative fundamentalists.

Click to expand...

What has worked best for me has been to build positive relations with no intentions other than being friendly. Some atheists and agnostics are intolerant. The best weapon is to be the opposite ourselves.

NothingIsImpossible said:

Only difference between us and them is we live by a set of rules from God. Where as they live by none. Theres nothing ruling their life. No code. No rules. No anything. They live freely and yet can't even agree with each other on what is right or wrong at times. Its why they do the things they do as I mentioned above. If they were capable of dealing with life they wouldn't be doing drugs, drinking, having casual sex, partying, wanting money....etc.

Click to expand...

In fairness to atheists, many atheists do have a code of right and wrong that they live by. You're correct that they don't look to a set of rules from God. You're also right that atheists don't all agree with each other about what ethical system to follow. But it is quite possible for an atheist to base an ethical system on principles like treating others as you want to be treated, or treating people as though every individual has intrinsic worth, or protecting the rights of people in marginalized groups because such people often don't have the power to protect their own rights. Being an atheist doesn't have to mean an irresponsible life of drugs and orgies; it simply means that one's ethical system has to be formulated without referring to God(s).

mathinspiration said:

How do you help people who claim to be open minded or even good christians or religious people but they are tolerant to others, other beliefs and are bias because of something?

Click to expand...

Any thoughtful person convinced of what they believe must be in some respects (and often in many) very closed-minded and intolerant. How open-minded are you toward rape or murder, for example? Would you tolerate someone mixing a bit of rat poison into your favorite chocolate chip cookies? Are you open or closed-minded about 2+2 equaling 7? Would you tolerate a restaurant tallying up your dining bill while having an open-minded attitude about basic math sums not being fixed? Hopefully, you can see that in and of itself being closed-minded and intolerant is both common and necessary. As the saying goes, "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

A Christian ought to be very intolerant of a number of things: lying, fornication, false teachers and Gospels, gossip, perversion, arrogance, laziness, gluttony, denying the deity of Christ, the insufficiency of God's word, and so on. If your intent is to get believers to soften toward any of these things, you make yourself an enemy of God. He gives not the slightest bit of ground to sin and false belief. Neither should you - or other believers.

mathinspiration said:

I had encountered intolerant atheists and agnostic who claim they are free thinkers and I find they are more intolerant than right winged conservative fundamentalists.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by "right-wing, conservative fundamentalists"? I find people like to throw around these labels without having a clear idea of what they are referring to.

The most intolerant and murderous political regimes in the last 100 years or so were all atheistic ones. Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao together murdered over a 100 million people! Never has intolerance been more severe and more destructive than when exerted by people who have forsaken God.

Hi

Jesus said the disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Another words what people have said, done, and the way they have treated Jesus the master, is the same way they will say, do, and treat the disciple.

So the same way Jesus responded and treated them, is the example for the disciple to follow and treat them the same way.

Peace.

You can't they believe their open minded so their own pride/arrogance won't allow room for other viewpoints.