Does Israel get taken over again?

jgr

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You seem to be unaware of the doctrine of the fourteenth century "Apostolic Brethren," who taught a future Antichrist, from whom they would be protected by being transfered into Paradise, only to return when the Antichrist was dead.

Sources, dates, and quotations?

You also seem to be wholly ignorant of the widely circulated works of William Lowth, who discussed at length how the scriptures taught, and clearly taught, a future return of the Jews to their ancient homeland, and their mass conversion after that time, in the early 1700s, more than a hundred years before Dispensationalism was first formalized as a doctrine.

Futurized antichrist? Sources, dates, and quotations?

You also seem to be wholly ignorant of the doctrines of the English writer Lewis Way, who taught a fully developed Dispensationalisn in the early 1800s, before Darby or Irving wrote anything, and before Lacunza's work was translated into English.

Futurized antichrist? Sources, dates, and quotations?
 
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jgr said in post #207:

Irenaeus and Hippolytus could not have known that virtually all of their futurism would find actual fulfillment in the relatively imminent appearance of the papacy, and its subsequent degeneration into an apostate antichrist.

Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Gnosticism and Luciferianism, also called Satanism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

*******

jgr said in post #212:

The papacy was a literal fulfillment of the associated prophetic Scriptures, specifically those of antichrist.

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3), who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18), and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon), and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone, could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.
 
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jgr

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Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Gnosticism and Luciferianism, also called Satanism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

*******



The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3), who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18), and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon), and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone, could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.
Many of these claims have been dealt with in previous exchanges.

A complete denial and betrayal of Reformation truth, faith, and sacrifice; and capitulation to Riberan fabricated futurism and counterfeit doctrine. Indicted, convicted, and condemned by the events of fulfilled prophetic history, and by the triumph of the true Christian Church who "came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14)

The success of the Reformation in unshackling Europe from spiritual bondage attests to the Hand of God in that success, and to the accuracy and legitimacy of the prophetic recognition and insight of the Reformers.
 
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jgr

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You seem to be unaware of the doctrine of the fourteenth century "Apostolic Brethren," who taught a future Antichrist, from whom they would be protected by being transfered into Paradise, only to return when the Antichrist was dead.

The Apostolic Brethren was a breakaway movement in Italy beginning in the later portion of the 13th century. Reformation thought and insight did not begin to penetrate Italy until the middle portion of the 15th century, under the leadership of Savonarola. It is therefore not surprising that the eschatology of the Brethren would have been more reflective of that of the futurists of the early Church. Unfortunately, the movement did not survive sufficiently long in a form which could have joined the Reformation and contributed to it. Had it done so, its eschatology would undoubtedly have aligned itself in unanimity with that of the Reformers regarding the fulfillment of antichrist in the papacy. However, the Italian Reformation itself withered in a relatively short time. Savonarola himself was burned at the stake.
 
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Davy

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There is no mention of a Roman general.

"Messiah" does not mean prince.

The Hebrew word for "prince" is the same ("nagid") in both instances.

Messiah is the only prince in the passage.

There is only one "prince" being spoken of in the Dan.9:26 verse, and it's a word for captain, commander, etc. And verse 26 is where the "he" of verse 27 must come from, the last person being spoken of. You cannot just jump back to the 25th verse because you want the "he" of verse 27 to be Christ. Thus the last person spoken of prior to the "he" of verse 27 is actually PLURAL, it's the PEOPLE of the prince that destroy the city and the sanctuary, which was the ROMANS who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 69 A.D. Thus the "he" of verse 27 is pointing back to the Romans and not Jesus.
 
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jgr

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There is only one "prince" being spoken of in the Dan.9:26 verse, and it's a word for captain, commander, etc. And verse 26 is where the "he" of verse 27 must come from, the last person being spoken of. You cannot just jump back to the 25th verse because you want the "he" of verse 27 to be Christ. Thus the last person spoken of prior to the "he" of verse 27 is actually PLURAL, it's the PEOPLE of the prince that destroy the city and the sanctuary, which was the ROMANS who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 69 A.D. Thus the "he" of verse 27 is pointing back to the Romans and not Jesus.

To preserve case consistency, the individual singular "he's" of verse 27 must refer back to the individual singular prince of verse 26.
The prince of verse 26 refers back to the Prince of verse 25.
The Prince of verse 25 is identified as Messiah.
Thus the "he's" of verse 27 refer to Messiah.

The individual singular "he's" of verse 27 cannot be referring to a plural "people". That is case inconsistency. One does not say "he is a people". One says "he is a person"; in this case "he is a prince".
 
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Davy

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To preserve case consistency, the individual singular "he's" of verse 27 must refer back to the individual singular prince of verse 26.
The prince of verse 26 refers back to the Prince of verse 25.
The Prince of verse 25 is identified as Messiah.
Thus the "he's" of verse 27 refer to Messiah.

The individual singular "he's" of verse 27 cannot be referring to a plural "people". That is case inconsistency. One does not say "he is a people". One says "he is a person"; in this case "he is a prince".

Absolutely not.
The "prince" of Dan.9:26 is a change of subject, and is about the leader of the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary, which per history was the Roman general Titus in 69 A.D.

You cannot arbitrarily assign that "prince" to Jesus.
When Jesus is the subject, it is either about His first coming, or His being cut off at His cross. And in the Daniel prophecy His being cut off means the event of His death on the cross. After that the subject changes to the one who destroys the city and the sanctuary, which was the Romans.
 
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jgr

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Then, he falsehood was finalized by JRG in post #151, saying “The cited brethren unanimously conclude that the required position which is the most consistent with the available evidence is that of historical fulfillment rather than futurized fulfillment.

“These brethren represent the prevailing view of the historical true Christian Church until the 19th century.”


This could not even possibly be further from the truth.

You evidently chose to ignore the fact that I was specifically addressing the interpretation of Matthew 24. The eight authors I quoted, from the first 18 centuries of true Church history, interpreted it, or significant varying portions of it, historically.

So in response, let us see your list of authors from the same period who interpreted Matthew 24, or significant varying portions of it, futuristically; with supporting quotations.
 
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BABerean2

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Absolutely not.
The "prince" of Dan.9:26 is a change of subject, and is about the leader of the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary, which per history was the Roman general Titus in 69 A.D.

You cannot arbitrarily assign that "prince" to Jesus.
When Jesus is the subject, it is either about His first coming, or His being cut off at His cross. And in the Daniel prophecy His being cut off means the event of His death on the cross. After that the subject changes to the one who destroys the city and the sanctuary, which was the Romans.

Based on your interpretation of the passage the Roman commander Titus made a covenant for a period of seven years.
Then in the middle of the seven years Titus stopped the temple sacrifices.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



The other option is that the New Covenant had already been promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Christ is the New Covenant Messiah as confirmed by Hebrews 8:6-13.
Therefore the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is about the New Covenant found in Hebrews 12:22-24.
And Jesus said in Matthew 23:38 that the Jewish temple would be left "desolate".


This interpretation is found below in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.



...............................................................................................

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

................................................

The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28, which is about the New Covenant.

.
 
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jgr said in post #223:

A complete denial and betrayal of Reformation truth . . .

Indeed, insofar as the Reformation idea that the papacy fulfilled the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") was not actually truth, but was mistaken.

For example, the papacy never fulfilled the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2), which will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will also be visible because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows that the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (that is, the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason that people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what was shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Satanists today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning that the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning that it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17). And they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image. For those people who agree to do these things, even if they're Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded by the Antichrist, will be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient Church of all times) at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (compare also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, and Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one who will cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus himself returned (via reincarnation). But he won't say that he's Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it's transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, 2 thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the future Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (that is, they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Satan will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism, also called Satanism. The Antichrist will be both a Satanist, a worshipper of Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend that he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend that he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.
 
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jgr

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Indeed, insofar as the Reformation idea that the papacy fulfilled the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") was not actually truth, but was mistaken.

The Reformation's success in throwing off hundreds of years of spiritual bondage was no "mistake", but rather proof of God's Hand of grace and mercy in restoring His true Church to its rightful place of preeminence as His Chosen People. The doctrine of the papacy as an antichrist was integral and essential to that success, as God opened the Reformers' eyes of spiritual insight, wisdom, and discernment to recognize and proclaim prophetic truth. It purchased, frequently with blood and in fire, a great many of the spiritual freedoms and liberties that we take for granted today, including those that permit armchair detractors to denigrate the Reformers' faith and sacrifice as "mistaken."

It is a privilege to be able to celebrate the 500th anniversary of that "mistake". There are many true believers within the Catholic church who acknowledge the need for and value of that "mistake". May God continue to enable such "mistakes" to occur when required within His true Church, as He calls it to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude 3)
 
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jgr said in post #232:

The doctrine of the papacy as an antichrist was integral and essential to that success . . .

Note that it wasn't. For the papacy can still be rejected today without having to think that it's the Antichrist. For the papacy can simply be a mistaken idea with no basis in the Bible.

It seems to be based on an idea of "apostolic succession".

But Jesus Christ Himself is the highest apostle (Hebrews 3:1). And He can ordain people directly, without any other apostles having to be involved (Acts 26:13-20, Galatians 1:1).

Also, Acts 14:14 shows that eventually there were at least fourteen apostles of Jesus Christ, including Paul and Barnabas, and the twelve apostles of Acts 1:26.

Also, if the pope today were the apostolic successor of Peter, then who today would be the apostolic successors of the at least thirteen other apostles besides Peter?

Did all of the other lines of apostolic succession peter out? And if so, how could this be? How could the Church today need only one apostolic successor, while the early Church needed at least fourteen apostles?

What has happened?

-

Also, the principle of Matthew 16:19 doesn't apply only to the apostle Peter, but to the entire Church which Jesus Christ would build upon Himself the rock (Matthew 16:18-19, Ephesians 2:20). For the same principle is repeated later in Matthew 18:18, where it is addressing plural people (see the Greek), and where it can apply to everyone in the Church, just as its context principles apply to everyone in the Church (Matthew 18:17-20).

In Matthew 16:19, in the original Greek, the "thee" and the two "thou" verbs are singular, while in the original Greek of Matthew 18:18, the "you" and the two "ye" verbs are plural.

jgr said in post #232:

. . . as God opened the Reformers' eyes of spiritual insight, wisdom, and discernment to recognize and proclaim prophetic truth.

Note that it is in no way prophetic truth to say that the papacy fulfilled the Biblical prophecies regarding the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). For the papacy never fulfilled those prophecies.

For example, the papacy never fulfilled the prophecies regarding the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15), which could be an android image of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could order to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think that the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma: G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way that this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of neural-network supercomputers running highly advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of the neural networks having been imprinted with the Antichrist's own brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer, and can't tell whether or not it has consciousness, because all of its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's. For it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it's not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: his android body could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The unsaved world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (of Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And to make it easy for everyone in the world to see the Antichrist's image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, tablet, laptop, PC, TV, GPS navigation system and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a lifelike computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives. For it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged remotely to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones which can be remotely opened secretly to see and hear what's going on around the smartphones at any time. So when the Antichrist's image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of his exact location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (in a brainwashing prison, or through physical torture, if necessary). But if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15), by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the Antichrist's image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start-out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it's released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U", and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out at the same time for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What's left of the bodies could then be stuffed in shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic "Black Pyramid of Death", which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is He didn't, for He created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to Christians through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center where everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", some people in each group could really get into the evening worship sessions, and even (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

For example, as a worshipper named Mary, a housewife with 2 little children, is bowing down before the image of the Antichrist, he could speak forth to her: "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish thee, my precious dove!". And poor Mary could begin to cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to her, not realizing that they're merely the concoction of an artificial-intelligence program running in a neural-network supercomputer down in the basement of some government building.

Also, the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns physically from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up His own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
 
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jgr

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Note that it is in no way prophetic truth to say that the papacy fulfilled the Biblical prophecies regarding the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). For the papacy never fulfilled those prophecies.
Thankfully, those whom God called, living in the belly of the beast, realized and recognized otherwise.


History can be denied. But history cannot be destroyed.

History realizes. Futurism fantasizes.

Fulfillment's assurance is infinitely superior to futurism's assumptions.
 
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Biblewriter

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Jerome came very close. All he missed was the timing. Had he survived until the Reformation, he would have corrected that too.

"when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves."
The ten horns of Daniel 7 -- Heruli, Suevi, Burgundians, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Anglo-Saxons

"Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise"
The little horn of Daniel 7 -- the papacy.

"who will overcome three of the ten kings"
The three horns of Daniel 7 -- Heruli, Ostrogoths, Vandals

"Then after they have been slain, the seven other kings will bow their necks to the victor."
The remaining seven horns subsequently converted to Catholicism under the papacy.


All sombrely rational and without pretense. In other words, the historical record.

This is futurism at its best, claiming a literal fulfillment of a prophecy by completely ignoring the detains of what the Bible actually says. The identity of the ten horns is explicitly stated in Revelation 17:12. "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast."

It took me a while to answer this ridiculous claim because I do not lie to go off half cocked. So I checked the historical information available about each of the groups you named.

Of the ten ethnic groups (neither kings, as in an individual ruler, not kingdoms, as in a land ruled by a king) you named in this list, all ten of them were already in existence at the time the Revelation was given. That is, every one of these ancient ethnic groups is explicitly named in ancient documents. Half of them are named in ancient documents that were were written before the Revelation was given, and the other half were already large and well developed ethnic groups when they were named in ancient documents that were written less than two centuries after the Revelation was given.

Nor were most of them ever given a kingdom, as such. These are ethnic groups, not kingdoms, although a few of them actually became kingdoms for at least a time.

Sadly, this is typical of the claims of historicism. They simply ignore the details of a Biblical prophecy, pretending that they are simply not important. They search until they find some historical event that somehow has a resemblance to a prophecy, and claim that event as a fulfillment of that prophecy.

But the scriptures repeatedly and explicitly state that the fine details of what God says are all important. No prophecy in the entire Bible has been fulfilled until every detail of that prophecy has been fulfilled.

A typical example of a prophecy that has actually been fulfilled is the first 34 verses of Daniel 11. Every detail of this long section was literally fulfilled, in such precision that unbelievers claim that its very accuracy proves that it could not have been written before the events described actually took place. This pre-written history covers a period of more than 150 years. But then verse 35 described a condition that it says will continue "even to the time of the end," and then the prophecy continues, but none of the rest of what it says has ever happened, even up to the present time.
 
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Biblewriter

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Thankfully, those whom God called, living in the belly of the beast, realized and recognized otherwise.


History can be denied. But history cannot be destroyed.

History realizes. Futurism fantasizes.

Fulfillment's assurance is infinitely superior to futurism's assumptions.

Actually, I am working on hard proof, much of what I have already found, that the reformers were NOT unaminoius in the historicist views held by some of them.
 
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seventysevens

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Thankfully, those whom God called, living in the belly of the beast, realized and recognized otherwise.


History can be denied. But history cannot be destroyed.

History realizes. Futurism fantasizes.

Fulfillment's assurance is infinitely superior to futurism's assumptions.

This is the future :)

Be glad, people of Zion,
rejoice in the Lord your God,
for he has given you the autumn rains
because he is faithful.

He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
24 The threshing floors will be filled with grain;
the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.

25 “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten—
the great locust and the young locust,
the other locusts and the locust swarm—
my great army that I sent among you.
26 You will have plenty to eat, until you are full,
and you will praise the name of the Lord your God,
who has worked wonders for you;
never again will my people be shamed.
27 Then you will know that I am in Israel,
that I am the Lord your God,
and that there is no other;
never again will my people be shamed.

32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the Lord has said,
even among the survivors
whom the Lord calls


Amos
8 Look, the Lord God is eyeing the sinful kingdom,
and I will destroy it from the face of the earth.
However, I won’t destroy fully the house of Jacob,
says the Lord.



4 I will improve the circumstances of my people Israel;
they will rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
and they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant them upon their land,
and they will never again be plucked up
out of the land that I have given them,
says the Lord your God.
 
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BABerean2

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15 I will plant them upon their land,
and they will never again be plucked up
out of the land that I have given them,
says the Lord your God.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.



Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

.
 
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seventysevens

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God say he will - the future not the past
What ya think Never again means :) it means Never again :)


15 I will plant them upon their land,
and they will never again be plucked up
out of the land that I have given them,
says the Lord your God.








Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them,
O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
 
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jgr

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This is futurism at its best, claiming a literal fulfillment of a prophecy by completely ignoring the detains of what the Bible actually says. The identity of the ten horns is explicitly stated in Revelation 17:12. "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast."

It took me a while to answer this ridiculous claim because I do not lie to go off half cocked. So I checked the historical information available about each of the groups you named.
Where does Revelation come into play? Jerome's commentary was on Daniel 7.

You tried not to go off half cocked, but failed.
 
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