Jesus Told Many They Would Live to See His Coming.

Douggg said:

Re Question 1

The gathering of the elect (I think you meant Mark 13:27, not Luke? ) in Matthew and Mark.

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I changed it from Luke to Mark.

I'll have to answer you guys in the afternoon, it's almost 4Am. here.

Truth7t7 said:

The Fatherhood of God, and The Brotherhood of man is a doctrine of occultic "Freemasonry"

Just because God is the creator of all, does not make the wicked his children and God their father.

God is not the Father of the wicked, not all men in the world are brethren.

The Fatherhood of God, and Brotherhood Of Man is a false doctrine in occultic "Freemasonry" and is used in universalism teaching.

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The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the Gospel of the Son of God. Of coarse the arrogant Jews and the religiously proud don't like it. It's one reason that the theology lawyers regected Jesus and tried to kill him.

There is only one God, one maker of heaven and earth. There aren't other Gods that create other humans on earth. One would think that's common sense???

Anyway, if you don't understand it Jesus did.

Matthew 5:45.
That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh
his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


One might be the Pridigal son or ignorant that God is their Father, but that doesn't change the facts. For the Buddhist, born into Buddhism, a missionary can carry the "good news" that God is his Father, that by faith he can unite with his true God and Father and find salvation.

Satan was first a Son of God, a created being with the will to choose. There was no other God who created Satan. Even though he fell into grave sin, the fact remains, God is his true Father.

Colter said:

The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the Gospel of the Son of God. Of coarse the arrogant Jews and the religiously proud don't like it. It's one reason that the theology lawyers regected Jesus and tried to kill him.

There is only one God, one maker of heaven and earth. There aren't other Gods that create other humans on earth. One would think that's common sense???

Anyway, if you don't understand it Jesus did.

Matthew 5:45.
That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh
his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


One might be the Pridigal son or ignorant that God is their Father, but that doesn't change the facts. For the Buddhist, born into Buddhism, a missionary can carry the "good news" that God is his Father, that by fait he can unite with his true God and Father and find salvation.

Satan was first a Son of God, a created being with the will to choose. There was no other God who created Satan. Even though he fell into grave sin, the fact remains, God is his true Father.

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The Fatherhood Of God and Brotherhood Of Man Is A False Doctrine And Teaching From Occultic "Freemasonry"

Daniel Martinovich said:

That would be a problem with your doctrine that teaches there is a one time end of the world as we know it event in the fuutre called a "second" coming.

Plus, why the need to twist and torture the scripture to come to a conclusion like that when every single verse of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and luke 21 came to passs with a vengence on the region in the lifetimes of many of those he was speaking to?

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MATTHEW.24: = 1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” ...

.... 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ...

.... 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. ...

.... 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

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1THESS.4: = 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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MATTHEW.13: = 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
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2TIMOTHY.3: = 1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

Truth7t7 said:

The Fatherhood Of God and Brotherhood Of Man Is A False Doctrine And Teaching From Occultic "Freemasonry"

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10See that you do not look down on any of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.a

12What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? 13And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he rejoices more over that one sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14In the same way, your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Truth7t7 said:

The Fatherhood Of God and Brotherhood Of Man Is A False Doctrine And Teaching From Occultic "Freemasonry"

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Let's see what scripture says...

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We were all made in the image of God, the father. Just that a deep slumber and eyesight change came upon Adam in the garden which has everything to do with perception (as in the question "Where art thou?") Jesus tells us the Kingdom of Heaven is within you/us and is not an over here or over there that can be seen by observation with the five senses. It is revealed inwardly by the spirit. We are all somewhere in the process taking place within and 'see'/perceive from where we are. Seeing the spirit of Christ as something separate/outside of our being is to not yet be one, but double-minded or not single of eye (Matthew 6:22-23)...or to still be eating from the tree that caused the eyesight change/perception of the first Adam...

Luke 11:35 Be careful, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

Our body is the temple not made with human hands. It is what is being restored (God's glory fills the temple) in the inner man...John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God...

The same spirit that rose Jesus from the grave lives in each of us...and it is that which is being brought to light...

The love of God is impartial. He loved us while we were yet sinners...because we are all His children...though some still sleep in the dust (perceiving with the five senses) and some have entered through The Door (back)...carnal man divides and measures (perceiving lack) that which is immeasurable and infinite.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Alpha and Omega, First and Last Adam, The beginning and the End...the end of our faith takes us full circle back to the beginning, restored/reconciled/renewed mind (all things brought (back) to remembrance...loving our neighbour as we love our self...we all come from the same place...all paths that come from heaven lead back to heaven...

ebedmelech said:

I encourage you to read John 12:31, 32 because Satan is cast out of heaven to earth, which is also pointed out in Revelation 12:7-13. This was going on in heaven as Christ was headed to the cross.
Satan is thrown down to earth because he can no longer accuse the brethren as Jesus has made atonement for our sins.

Just because Satan is on earth doesn't mean Christ is not reigning. Remember that God's salvation plan will be completed and Satan can only go as far as Christ allows him to. That's because Jesus reigns.

Jesus was given all power and authority after He was raised...so how is it Jesus doesn't reign?

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You should read verses 25 - 36 to see what Jesus was saying
Satan will be cast out of heaven but it has not happened as of yet , in Rev12 is when it happens

25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. 36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.

To reign with Christ now means that if we stay with Christ he will empower us to resist sin and temptation , but since we are still in this carnal human body we are still subject to those things.
If a person turns away from the faith and Christ they will no longer reign with Christ but when in Rev 20 says we reign with Christ it is in a immortal body
When we reign with Christ we will even reign over angels , mankind has the intended purpose to be above the angels , angels cannot be redeemed when they sin

When satan is thrown down to earth it is then the Man Of Lawlessness comes who will be the person who Christ will throw alive into the lake of fire
Jesus is the Almighty God the Alpha and the Omega the Beginning and the End

He had forsaken some of his divinity when he came to earth to be the sacrifice on the cross; Jesus said that no man can take his life but he lays it down of his own accord because he has the power to take it up again

Jesus has never lost His reign over ALL things he came to take the sins of all the world upon himself so that we now have the path to follow Christ and be redeemed through His blood shed on the cross

Truth7t7 said:

Appears John Gill is Roman Catholic, Or Following Constantine As A Orthodox Christian Leader, Or Both

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John Gill a Roman Catholic, Yike. Gill was a Calvinist and so was Matthew Henry and Charles Spurgeon.
John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology
per Wiki, you could learn if you took the time to do a little research before guessing.

Truth7t7 said:

Are you a Roman Catholic?

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No. Probably closest to Baptist but not Calvinist.

Truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Hank77 to Truth7t7

Your eschatology is that of a "Partial Preterist" in that you believe the AOD in Matthew 24:15 and "Great Tribulation" Matthew 24:21 has been fulfilled.

Yet You see a future literal second advent and future literal bodily resurrection of the believer. "Partial Preterism"

John Gill denies Matthew 24:29 and refrences the cross of Constantine isn't in the air

Appears John Gill is Roman Catholic, Or Following Constantine As A Orthodox Christian Leader, Or Both

Are you a Roman Catholic?

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You sure like to put labels on others don't you?
Why is it so important to seek out the divide in others and your own Theology?
Is the Beam any less in your own eye, as compared by others.
Deal with people here as Christians, not lessors.

Hank
Doug

My questions were.
1) Who are the Elect spoken of in the Mark and Matt. verses,
2) When ( WERE, ARE) they gathered, (1st. Century, or some time in the future)?



The Elect = Election = Remnant.
In the following verses, Paul is speaking about those Jews of his time, these Jews would see the destruction of The Temple, and Jerusalem.

It is clear by what Paul wrote, he is not speaking of some time (In Our Future)
Therefore the Elect spoken of in the New Testament are those of the time of the Destruction of Jerusalem.

The Elect are not US, Christians of today, but them of that time.


Rom 11:1-10
1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3) Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4) But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8) (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this day.

9) And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10) Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

In conjunction with these verses, I posted something else Paul said, which bears repeating here.

JIMINZ said:

Who then was Paul speaking,.......US?

1Co. 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

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From what I read, Paul was not concerned with the people of today as much as he was, with the people of his time, and what he understood was coming.

PeaceJoyLove post: 72167423 said:

Let's see what scripture says...

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We were all made in the image of God, the father. Just that a deep slumber and eyesight change came upon Adam in the garden which has everything to do with perception (as in the question "Where art thou?") Jesus tells us the Kingdom of Heaven is within you/us and is not an over here or over there that can be seen by observation with the five senses. It is revealed inwardly by the spirit. We are all somewhere in the process taking place within and 'see'/perceive from where we are. Seeing the spirit of Christ as something separate/outside of our being is to not yet be one, but double-minded or not single of eye (Matthew 6:22-23)...or to still be eating from the tree that caused the eyesight change/perception of the first Adam...

Luke 11:35 Be careful, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

Our body is the temple not made with human hands. It is what is being restored (God's glory fills the temple) in the inner man...John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God...

The same spirit that rose Jesus from the grave lives in each of us...and it is that which is being brought to light...

The love of God is impartial. He loved us while we were yet sinners...because we are all His children...though some still sleep in the dust (perceiving with the five senses) and some have entered through The Door (back)...carnal man divides and measures (perceiving lack) that which is immeasurable and infinite.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Alpha and Omega, First and Last Adam, The beginning and the End...the end of our faith takes us full circle back to the beginning, restored/reconciled/renewed mind (all things brought (back) to remembrance...loving our neighbour as we love our self...we all come from the same place...all paths that come from heaven lead back to heaven...

Click to expand...

The Fatherhood Of God, Brotherhood Of Man

Is a false doctrine from the occultic "Freemasonry"

JIMINZ said:

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You sure like to put labels on others don't you?
Why is it so important to seek out the divide in others and your own Theology?
Is the Beam any less in your own eye, as compared by others.
Deal with people here as Christians, not lessors.

Click to expand...

I believe scripture teaches of a future abomination of desolation. Matthew 24:15

A Future literal human man of sin/beast/antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:36-37, Revelation 13:1-6

A Future great tribulation of 42 months, 1260 days Matthew 24:21, Revelation 11:1-4, Revelation 13:1-5

Future literal prophets returned/two witnesses, literal plagues upon earth Revelation 11:3-15

Future literal battle of Armageddon Revelation 16:12-17, Revelation 20:7-9, Zechariah 14:1-4

Future Literal second advent of Jesus Christ Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Zechariah 14:1-4

Future second advent, immediately after the future tribulation Matthew 24:29-31

Future literal resurrection of all at the second advent John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Future resurrection on "The Last Day" John 6:40

Future literal final judgment at the second advent, Revelation 20:11-15, Matthew 25:31-46 with a literal lake of fire for the wicked.

Future literal dissolving of the heavens and earth by the Lords fire at his return 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Malachi 3:2, Luke 17:29-30

A Future literal eternal kingdom for the righteous Revelation 21 & 22

The second advent, final judgment, eternal kingdom, "God Speed" in the twinkling of an eye 1 Corinthians 15:52-54

That's my belief, feel free to label it all ya want, no hard feelings whatsoever

Jesus Christ Is The Lord

Truth7t7

Hank77 said:

John Gill a Roman Catholic, Yike. Gill was a Calvinist and so was Matthew Henry and Charles Spurgeon.
John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology
per Wiki, you could learn if you took the time to do a little research before guessing.

No. Probably closest to Baptist but not Calvinist.

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Thanks for the response

Why would a baptist pastor alude to Constatine in the cross in the air, in denial of Matthew 24:29 wierd?

I believe Matthew 24:29-31 represent the future second advent and resurrection.

I believe Matthew 24:21 "Great Tribulation" is a future event, and is directly tied to verse 29 "immediately after the tribulation of those days" also a future event in verse 30 "They shall see the Son Of Man Coming"

I believe these verses are inseparable. I believe the "Partial Preterist" sweeps Matthew 24:29-31 under the carpet in symbolic allegory, to maintain 66-70AD fulfillment of the "Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to the second advent, to sweep verses 29-31 under the carpet is error in my opinion.

I also would lean to Baptist, split on Calvin/Armenian

Are believers chosen/predestined "Yes"

Is Faith Dead without works "Yes"

Catch 22, I avoid the debate

Thank you Daniel for making this thread I agree with the original post in particular this verse:

Mark 14:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62. And Jesus said, I am: and you will see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven

I believe these individuals are still alive and have been the primary architects of our 'civilization'. It explains why humanity has increased so quickly in terms of technology since the time of Christ.

Good thread, thank you.

Crazy talk maybe but I take scripture literally. My argument is that for 2000 years people have argued over meanings and words metaphorically. And I'm sure you have a hundred different references from 'scholars' of the past.

It's easier to take it on faith, like a child. Christ said Caiphus would see Him on Clouds of Power that is a direct reference to the Book of Daniel:

Daniel 7:13

“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him"

This is Christ speaking here Christ is God in the flesh His Word is permanence and reality friend.

Daniel Martinovich said:

From the article: The End Of An Age . Referencing Matthew 24:30, Mark 13:26, Luke 21:27 and The Clouds of Heaven

What are the clouds of heaven Jesus refers to?
There are two types of clouds Jesus could be referring to in this statement. The first is the obvious. In exactly the same manner this language was used to describe days of judgment where the Lord came in the Old Testament. Days of the Lord that that proceeded this prophecy about end of the Old covenant age. Literal clouds in the sky were used in a descriptive manner about those days and this one.
​

A prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon destroying Egypt.
Isaiah 19:1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. 2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts.

This first one is from Zephaniah, approximately 638 BC. The day of the Lord being prophesied here is about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon destroying all the nations around Judea and razing Jerusalem to the ground.
Zephaniah 1: 14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hastens greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. 15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of devastation and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Joel's prophecy about 835 BC is also about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon. Or it could also be viewed as a prophecy about the entire age of the four Gentile empires. Jerusalem was completely destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Later rebuilt in very troubling times. Then completely destroyed by the Romans.
Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. .... 2:1 1 Blow you the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD comes, for it is near at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread on the mountains: a great people and a strong; there has not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Same thing with Ezekiel, a prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of the nations around Judea.
Ezekiel 30: 1. The word of the Lord came again to me, saying, 2. Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus says the Lord God; Wail, Alas the day! 3. For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. 4. And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down. 5. Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league, shall fall with them by the sword....10. Thus says the Lord God; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. 11. He and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

So one can see in those scriptures that the language Jesus is using to describe his coming and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is the exact same language he used to describe his coming and the destruction of the nations around Judea centuries earlier. The language his prophecy uses of his coming in the NT is not "unique" other than the fact it is talking about the end of the Old Covenant age. Based on the scripture one cannot say it is still to be fulfilled in the future because nothing has ever happened that fits the phraseology being used. Unless of course one is not familiar enough with the Bible to see that the same wording was used in prophecies already recorded as fulfilled in the OT. There is however another type of cloud that could be construed as speaking to his coming and the fulfillment of prophecy about the messiah. The cloud of his power. A manifestation of the Holy Spirit displayed in all the works of power, miracles and healings wrought through the hands and Jesus and his disciple's that preceded the end. To put it another way. The miracles, signs and wonders that accompanied the appearing of the Messiah were part of the fulfillment of the great body of prophecy concerning the end the end of the Old Covenant Age.

Exodus 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.
Exodus 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Leviticus: 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
II Chronicles 5:1 Thus all the work that Solomon made for the house of the LORD was finished: and Solomon brought in all the things that David his father had dedicated; and the silver, and the gold, and all the instruments, put he among the treasures of the house of God. 2 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion...... 11 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place: (for all the priests that were present were sanctified, and did not then wait by course: 12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets 13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endures for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; 14 So that the priests could not stand (Stand up, they fell , or modern lingo, slain in the spirit.) to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
Ezekiel 10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubim there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. 2 And he spoke to the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill your hand with coals of fire from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. 3 Now the cherubim stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. 4 Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD's glory.
Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus takes Peter, James, and John his brother, and brings them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said to Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if you will, let us make here three tabernacles; one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spoke, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear you him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and on the cloud one sat like to the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in your sickle, and reap: for the time is come for you to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Speaking of the salvation in the nations) 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great wine press of the wrath of God. (Speaking of the judgments of the nations.)


Here is a speculation of mine about what happened in the book of Acts that might furthers what the scripture is laying out on this subject.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat on each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance......14......You men of Judaea, and all you that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known to you, and listen to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as you suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, said God, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
Great storms are preceded by great winds bringing the storms. This is especially apparent in desert regions. Perhaps the Holy Spirit being poured out this way with the sound of a great rushing wind was meant to illustrate the great storm and dark clouds that would envelope the region 35 years later. Likewise the great signs and wonders, miracles and healings that accompanied the Lords and his apostles ministries. Manifestations of the Holy Spirit's clouds from heaven and the glory of God. This was part of what signified the coming of the Messiah to ancient Israel and the end of that age.

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That is a interesting a a good rebuttal to my original comment, however I see now why people may have questioned if this was preterist or not. Personally I am weak in eschatology, I guess I'd call myself a mid-tribulational rapturist if anything.

So I cannot debate you effectively enough to increase my understanding or your own. Suffice it enough to say that I do take those scriptures in the original post as literal, and I have no problem with believing people could be alive for 2,000 years.

The genealogy from Adam to Noah in the Old Testament says people lived for hundreds of years so I have no problem believing people could live for 2,000 years especially if Christ told them directly they would live until He returned.

Nevertheless, I like the thread it is an interesting topic.

You believe the abomination of desolation Matthew 24:15 and the great tribulation Matthew 24:21 were fulfilled in the 1st century.

You deny a future return of Jesus Christ In Glory Matthew 24:29-31, Colossians 3:4

You deny a future bodily resurrection of the believer. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

You deny a future eternal kingdom. Revelation 21:1-5, Revelation 22:1-5

You deny the "Tree Of Life" is seen in Revelation 22

Your Teachings are that of "Full Preterism" this "False Teaching" is "Banned" in the Eschatology forum, please read the rules

"Stop The Heresy"!

Daniel Martinovich said:

What? That is crazy talk. This is what happens when the Biblical doctrine of the coming or day of the Lord gets replaced with the fake doctrine called a “second” coming. It screws up all kinds of people’s ability to reason when it comes to the scriptures.
The doctrine of the coming or day of the Lord revolves around the multiple times the Lord has physically\literaly come down to earth at certain times and seasons to oversee great days of judgement or calamity. He did this multiple times in the Old Testament. Many of those days of the Lord had prophecies of his coming telling when and why he was coming. We have the record in scripture of the fulfillment of those prophices.
Then we also have prophecies in the old and New Testaments of multiple other days of the Lord where he said he would come to judge certain nations and set up the fulfillment of promise that were out beyond when the New Testament was written.
The literal\physical coming of the Lord is not a new or unique thing that was to occur in NT Times.
But some genuine ignoramouses came up with this utterly absurd notion that the coming of the Lord is a one time event at the end of the world and called it a second coming because Christ came in the flesh “a first time.” And we get this kind of crazy talk and a complete inability to comprehend the times and seasons of Bible prophecy....Even though we have hindsight on much of it!
So no, all those folks are dead and gone and in heaven or hell and yes many of them lived long enough to see that particular day of the Lord where Jesus literally came to earth to oversea the judgement and calamity in ancient Israel that marked the finality of the nation as a whole being almost exclusively used to herald the Gospel, bring us the written and living Word and establish a d-day type beachhead in the earth for the invasion by his invisible kingdom.
Got news for everyone. The Lord still physically comes to the earth in in certain times and seasons in judgements against the wicked and for the righteous. Christians used to understand this.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord: He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword: His truth is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps, They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps; I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps: His day is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel: "As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal; Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel, Since God is marching on."
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat; He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat: Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet! Our God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea, With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me: As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, While God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave, He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave, So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave, Our God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

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