The Orthodox Book Club
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MrJim
Legend 3/17/05
Messalianism
I've never heard the word and now have been exposed to it twice in 24 hours. The first time was actually in the paragraph from with the passage in my previous post was taken. The second was in a book I picked up at a Catholic bookstore this afternoon called The Judas Syndrome: Seven Ancient Heresies Return to Betray Christ Anew.
...and the education continues
I've never heard the word and now have been exposed to it twice in 24 hours. The first time was actually in the paragraph from with the passage in my previous post was taken. The second was in a book I picked up at a Catholic bookstore this afternoon called The Judas Syndrome: Seven Ancient Heresies Return to Betray Christ Anew.
...and the education continues
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Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I just want to share two excerpts from professor Alexei Osipov's books God and "The Search for Truth on the Path of Reason", published in English and Russian. (Prof. Alexei Osipov is a well known Russian Orthodox theologian, professor and lecturer from Moscow Orthodox Theological Seminary):
1 What is religion? (From "The Search for Truth on the Path of Reason")
There are several different points of view about the derivation of the word religion (from the Latin word religio, meaning conscientiousness, piety, reverence, religion, holiness, service to God). Thus, Cicero, the famous Roman orator, writer, and political activist of the first century B.C. considered that this word came from the Latin verb relegere (meaning, to gather again, to re-consider, to set aside for a particular use), with a connotative meaning of showing reverence or relating to something with particular attention or respect. Proceeding from this, Cicero sees the very existence of religion as reverence before the higher powers, before the Divinity. This thought of Ciceros assuredly shows that piety is one of the most important elements of religion, without which religiosity becomes sanctimoniousness, hypocrisy, and empty ritual; and belief in God becomes no more than cold, lifeless doctrine. At the same time, we cannot agree with the statement that reverence toward something mysterious, even toward God, comprises the essence of religion. No matter how great and necessary piety is to religion, it is nevertheless only one of the feelings present in mans religious relationship to God, and does not express its essence.
The famous Western Christian writer and orator Lactantious (330) considered that the term religion comes from the Latin verb religare, which means to bind, to join. Therefore he defines religion as a union of piety between man and God. With this condition, he writes, we are born in order to show a just and dutiful submission to the Lord Who has given us being; to know only Him, to follow only Him. Being bound by this union of piety, we find ourselves in union with God, from which religion has received its name. Religion comes from the union of piety by which God has bound man with Himself .
Lactantious definition reveals the very essence of religiona living union of mans spirit with God, which takes place within the secret chambers of the human heart.
Blessed Augustine (430) similarly understood the essence of religion, although he considered that the word religion comes from the verb religare meaning to come together, and that religion itself indicates a coming together, the renewal of a once lost union between man and God. Seeking this, he writes, or rather, seeking out again (from which apparently it has received the name religion), we yearn towards Him with love, so that once we attain it, we will be at peace.
Thus, the etymology of the world religion points to its two basic meanings: unity and reverence, which explain religion as a mystical spiritual union: a living, reverent unification of man with God."
Sergei Bulgakov (1944), the great Russian thinker and later theologian, expressed this thought in the following words:
"Religion is [a process of] acquiring the knowledge of God, and the experience of a connection with God."
2 Are there contradictions in Gospels? (From God)
This objection comes from unawareness that Gospel has two sides. One is where external circumstances of the earthly life of Jesus Christ are described. This is where the authors of the New Testament report about what they saw themselves or heard about from others. It is possible to find here some inaccuracy in the presentation of facts and contradictions in the narration of one and the same event by different authors (e.g. one or two possessed with devils who met Jesus Christ Mt. 8:28 and Mk.5:1; or how many times [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew when Apostle Peter denied knowing Christ Mt.26:75 and Mk 14:72). Such discrepancy is usual when different people describe one event. Moreover, the existence of this kind of discrepancies confirm the authenticity of the witness of the authors of the Gospels and show the respectful attitude of all who copied these texts. It would have not been difficult to correlate the texts or even remove these contradictions.
The other side of the of the Gospel provides for the basis of the Christian confession and is its primary source. It comprises the teaching about God, about Christ, about commandments and about other truths of faith and life. This teaching contains no contradictions. For Christianity, this is Divine Revelation. The Gospels teaching cannot be looked upon as yet another religious philosophic system that can be discussed from the point of view of our logic and frame of mind. Our logic and assumptions are not applicable to that sphere of life. Christianity has a number of objective arguments witnessing to its Divine origin...
PS You can find Osipov's books (in Russian and English) at his website. But when you start reading his books, please filter his thoughts and ideas. Some of them do not sound Orthodox. For example, he is against infant baptism.
goo.gl/pDXcWU
goo.gl/GI4hCJ
I just want to share two excerpts from professor Alexei Osipov's books God and "The Search for Truth on the Path of Reason", published in English and Russian. (Prof. Alexei Osipov is a well known Russian Orthodox theologian, professor and lecturer from Moscow Orthodox Theological Seminary):
1 What is religion? (From "The Search for Truth on the Path of Reason")
There are several different points of view about the derivation of the word religion (from the Latin word religio, meaning conscientiousness, piety, reverence, religion, holiness, service to God). Thus, Cicero, the famous Roman orator, writer, and political activist of the first century B.C. considered that this word came from the Latin verb relegere (meaning, to gather again, to re-consider, to set aside for a particular use), with a connotative meaning of showing reverence or relating to something with particular attention or respect. Proceeding from this, Cicero sees the very existence of religion as reverence before the higher powers, before the Divinity. This thought of Ciceros assuredly shows that piety is one of the most important elements of religion, without which religiosity becomes sanctimoniousness, hypocrisy, and empty ritual; and belief in God becomes no more than cold, lifeless doctrine. At the same time, we cannot agree with the statement that reverence toward something mysterious, even toward God, comprises the essence of religion. No matter how great and necessary piety is to religion, it is nevertheless only one of the feelings present in mans religious relationship to God, and does not express its essence.
The famous Western Christian writer and orator Lactantious (330) considered that the term religion comes from the Latin verb religare, which means to bind, to join. Therefore he defines religion as a union of piety between man and God. With this condition, he writes, we are born in order to show a just and dutiful submission to the Lord Who has given us being; to know only Him, to follow only Him. Being bound by this union of piety, we find ourselves in union with God, from which religion has received its name. Religion comes from the union of piety by which God has bound man with Himself .
Lactantious definition reveals the very essence of religiona living union of mans spirit with God, which takes place within the secret chambers of the human heart.
Blessed Augustine (430) similarly understood the essence of religion, although he considered that the word religion comes from the verb religare meaning to come together, and that religion itself indicates a coming together, the renewal of a once lost union between man and God. Seeking this, he writes, or rather, seeking out again (from which apparently it has received the name religion), we yearn towards Him with love, so that once we attain it, we will be at peace.
Thus, the etymology of the world religion points to its two basic meanings: unity and reverence, which explain religion as a mystical spiritual union: a living, reverent unification of man with God."
Sergei Bulgakov (1944), the great Russian thinker and later theologian, expressed this thought in the following words:
"Religion is [a process of] acquiring the knowledge of God, and the experience of a connection with God."
2 Are there contradictions in Gospels? (From God)
This objection comes from unawareness that Gospel has two sides. One is where external circumstances of the earthly life of Jesus Christ are described. This is where the authors of the New Testament report about what they saw themselves or heard about from others. It is possible to find here some inaccuracy in the presentation of facts and contradictions in the narration of one and the same event by different authors (e.g. one or two possessed with devils who met Jesus Christ Mt. 8:28 and Mk.5:1; or how many times [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew when Apostle Peter denied knowing Christ Mt.26:75 and Mk 14:72). Such discrepancy is usual when different people describe one event. Moreover, the existence of this kind of discrepancies confirm the authenticity of the witness of the authors of the Gospels and show the respectful attitude of all who copied these texts. It would have not been difficult to correlate the texts or even remove these contradictions.
The other side of the of the Gospel provides for the basis of the Christian confession and is its primary source. It comprises the teaching about God, about Christ, about commandments and about other truths of faith and life. This teaching contains no contradictions. For Christianity, this is Divine Revelation. The Gospels teaching cannot be looked upon as yet another religious philosophic system that can be discussed from the point of view of our logic and frame of mind. Our logic and assumptions are not applicable to that sphere of life. Christianity has a number of objective arguments witnessing to its Divine origin...
PS You can find Osipov's books (in Russian and English) at his website. But when you start reading his books, please filter his thoughts and ideas. Some of them do not sound Orthodox. For example, he is against infant baptism.
goo.gl/pDXcWU
goo.gl/GI4hCJ
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~Anastasia~
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Hello SOVA, and welcome to CF and to TAW!
Sorry, I don't know which calendar you are on there, but if it's appropriate - Christ is Born! Glorify Him!
Great book. I got a copy from the library and read it, but I'm going to buy a copy someday, I hope.
I really enjoyed it. Again, welcome to CF. God be with you!
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S0VA
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Hello SOVA, and welcome to CF and to TAW!
Sorry, I don't know which calendar you are on there, but if it's appropriate - Christ is Born! Glorify Him!
Great book. I got a copy from the library and read it, but I'm going to buy a copy someday, I hope.
Again, welcome to CF. God be with you!
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S0VA
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Thanks a lot. I'm from Ukraine. Orthodox Christians in my country celebrates Christmas on 7th of January. I could help you to get this book in English if you want. It would be a little present from our parish for you))
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~Anastasia~
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Happy Birthday! We are only one day apart. My birthday is tomorrow.
Wow, that is very generous. It is certainly a wonderful book. If your parish is willing, I would like to accept ... very much I would love a copy of my own, but I am also in charge of building a library for our parish, so I would be most appreciative to accept a copy and place it there to share with everyone. I can always read it from there myself, so your gift would be to our parish, if you are so inclined. I would very much appreciate that, and would feature it in our parish newsletter if we had a copy to share.
If that is indeed possible, I would be happy to pm you the address for our parish. Thank you so much.
And again, happy birthday, and Many Years!
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S0VA
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I'm very glad to hear that I can make this good deed for orthodox brothers and sisters in USA. Contact me on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/alexander.ovechka.77Happy Birthday! We are only one day apart. My birthday is tomorrow.
Wow, that is very generous. It is certainly a wonderful book. If your parish is willing, I would like to accept ... very much I would love a copy of my own, but I am also in charge of building a library for our parish, so I would be most appreciative to accept a copy and place it there to share with everyone. I can always read it from there myself, so your gift would be to our parish, if you are so inclined. I would very much appreciate that, and would feature it in our parish newsletter if we had a copy to share.
If that is indeed possible, I would be happy to pm you the address for our parish. Thank you so much.
And again, happy birthday, and Many Years!
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LizaMarie
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So far I have read:
The Orthodox Church- Bishop Kallistos Ware
Facing East -by Federica Matthews Green
Thirsting for God in Shallow Wells -by Matthew Gallatin
Know the Faith by Rev. Michael Shanbour
What is the Orthodox Church-booklet-by Father Marc Dunaway
Marriage an Orthodox Perspective by John Meyendorff.
The booklet "What is the Orthodox Church" by Fr. Dunaway was for me very helpful in seeing all of church history from an Orthodox Perspective rather than from the Western perspective i.e. the split between East and West.
Know the Faith is also excellent. Was easy for me to understand, very well written. My big issue is Original sin, still kinda believe in it but the book explained for me the difference in Ancestral vs. Original sin as understood by the East.
I am currently reading "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" by Father Andrew Damick.
Have ordered "the Orthodox Way" by Bishop Ware.
And yes I know I need to get to a DL!!
I chose "Marriage an Orthodox perspective" because I wanted to hopefully find how the Church dealt with situations like mine and the book answered that mostly. Plus I wanted to see how the Orthodox deal with the sacramental aspect of marriage. No Protestant church considers marriage a sacrament.
I am ironically very much against divorce except in extreme cases. I think the Catholic Church is right on that issue, even though I don't go along with the annulment process. I think easy divorce, and to an extent artificial birth control, has led to our current crisis of the breakdown of the family. And the big issues we see today. My husband and I ,even though Protestants, made the decision to practice NFP. On the other hand, I realize there are situations in marriage where husband and wife will need to temporarily or even permanently limit size of family. that is between the couple and God. However, I am opposed to our current contraceptive mentalilty. This made me an oddball in my Protestant church.(Even the the WELS is somewhat against abortifacient birth control methods-barrier or sterilization OK)There are even Christians criticizing those who choose larger families. Birth control used to be precribed by doctors for married couples only. That went by the wayside of course.
Of course we have separation of Church and State so the Church must deal with how do we handle those who are divorced, remarried and want to come into or back to the Church? Each Christian community has their own way of handling it, while at the same time taking seriously Jesus' words in the Bible. I don't know the answer-Even Pope Francis thought the Orthodox way was good, from articles I read two years ago. But he has not changed the teaching, he cannot from what I've been made to understand.
The Orthodox Church- Bishop Kallistos Ware
Facing East -by Federica Matthews Green
Thirsting for God in Shallow Wells -by Matthew Gallatin
Know the Faith by Rev. Michael Shanbour
What is the Orthodox Church-booklet-by Father Marc Dunaway
Marriage an Orthodox Perspective by John Meyendorff.
The booklet "What is the Orthodox Church" by Fr. Dunaway was for me very helpful in seeing all of church history from an Orthodox Perspective rather than from the Western perspective i.e. the split between East and West.
Know the Faith is also excellent. Was easy for me to understand, very well written. My big issue is Original sin, still kinda believe in it but the book explained for me the difference in Ancestral vs. Original sin as understood by the East.
I am currently reading "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" by Father Andrew Damick.
Have ordered "the Orthodox Way" by Bishop Ware.
And yes I know I need to get to a DL!!
I chose "Marriage an Orthodox perspective" because I wanted to hopefully find how the Church dealt with situations like mine and the book answered that mostly. Plus I wanted to see how the Orthodox deal with the sacramental aspect of marriage. No Protestant church considers marriage a sacrament.
I am ironically very much against divorce except in extreme cases. I think the Catholic Church is right on that issue, even though I don't go along with the annulment process. I think easy divorce, and to an extent artificial birth control, has led to our current crisis of the breakdown of the family. And the big issues we see today. My husband and I ,even though Protestants, made the decision to practice NFP. On the other hand, I realize there are situations in marriage where husband and wife will need to temporarily or even permanently limit size of family. that is between the couple and God. However, I am opposed to our current contraceptive mentalilty. This made me an oddball in my Protestant church.(Even the the WELS is somewhat against abortifacient birth control methods-barrier or sterilization OK)There are even Christians criticizing those who choose larger families. Birth control used to be precribed by doctors for married couples only. That went by the wayside of course.
Of course we have separation of Church and State so the Church must deal with how do we handle those who are divorced, remarried and want to come into or back to the Church? Each Christian community has their own way of handling it, while at the same time taking seriously Jesus' words in the Bible. I don't know the answer-Even Pope Francis thought the Orthodox way was good, from articles I read two years ago. But he has not changed the teaching, he cannot from what I've been made to understand.
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~Anastasia~
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Some of your points would make a good thread on their own. They might get missed in here. If you like, bring them up in TAW (or St. Justin's depending on what kind of discussion you prefer).
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I hope this is the appropriate place to post this question.
I have a buddy who's interested in Orthodoxy, and is about 30 years old in case that matters. He is fairly well educated as well. He has asked me for a recommended reading list for him. I have my own reading list, but I have approached the discovery of Orthodoxy in a bit of an unorthodox (no pun intended) manner over a long period of time. I've recommended "The Orthodox Church", and "The Orthodox Way" to him so far, but beyond that I'm not too sure what else to recommend.
So, my question is since I didn't really discover Orthodoxy by means of books alone are there any books that you kind folks would recommend for my buddy? He's coming from a Protestant background that was most likely influenced by Baptists/Non-denoms as far as I know.
I'd appreciate any suggestions any of you might have. Thank you
I have a buddy who's interested in Orthodoxy, and is about 30 years old in case that matters. He is fairly well educated as well. He has asked me for a recommended reading list for him. I have my own reading list, but I have approached the discovery of Orthodoxy in a bit of an unorthodox (no pun intended
) manner over a long period of time. I've recommended "The Orthodox Church", and "The Orthodox Way" to him so far, but beyond that I'm not too sure what else to recommend.So, my question is since I didn't really discover Orthodoxy by means of books alone are there any books that you kind folks would recommend for my buddy? He's coming from a Protestant background that was most likely influenced by Baptists/Non-denoms as far as I know.
I'd appreciate any suggestions any of you might have. Thank you
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ZaidaBoBaida
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I hope this is the appropriate place to post this question.
I have a buddy who's interested in Orthodoxy, and is about 30 years old in case that matters. He is fairly well educated as well. He has asked me for a recommended reading list for him. I have my own reading list, but I have approached the discovery of Orthodoxy in a bit of an unorthodox (no pun intended
So, my question is since I didn't really discover Orthodoxy by means of books alone are there any books that you kind folks would recommend for my buddy? He's coming from a Protestant background that was most likely influenced by Baptists/Non-denoms as far as I know.
I'd appreciate any suggestions any of you might have. Thank you
Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells and Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy.
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~Anastasia~
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Oh, Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is especially good for an intellectually-leaning person. As long as they won't be offended by a polemical tone.
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Thirsting is great too because the author was still Protestant when he began it.
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