Electricity on the Sabbath

31gH9N.9. · Dec 30, 2017

Daryl, right after posting this I read the quote from the Messiah on your signature and got a little hope. I've been experiencing a MAJOR shaking of my faith and it's caused me to begin to even sometimes doubt that He is my savior... something I've never done in the past.

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Doug Melven said:
God didn't cease creating because of the Sabbath.
God finished creating on the 6th day and rested the 7th day.
Because of that He sanctified the Sabbath.
Sabbath = Rest

He ceased to create when day 6 was complete - that was end of day 6 and the start of day 7. He rested on day 7, after creating on day 6

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

31gH9N.9. said:
Last night I finally figured out this is what some orthodox Jews do ( leave on a light.) although it does honestly sound a little bit like man made tradition to me. I don't see why it's not Ok to use a light but if you just leave one on from before the beginning of the Shabbat until the end that it makes it different. Honestly I am beginning to find some of God's laws to be very much a burden in certain conditions, especially the Shabbat. I understand that others find it to be such a blessing and I totally believe it is that way for them but for me it has alaways been so hard. Before I started tyring to observe it I thought "Boy that would be really nice actually. A day when I wouldn't have to worry about all my regular responsibilities." I thought I'd have joy just reading God's word and praying and not feeling guilty about doing so ( Not that it's a sin, but that to neglect other responsibilties in order just to read more is something I've never felt right about.) But what it's ended up being for me is so far from what I expected. At first I would feel guilty if I didn't drive down to the city and spread the word of salvation to others on the street. Then I would feel guilty if I didn't go and congregate with other believers. Now I feel guilty if I do either of those things and instead I just feel like a slug all day because I don't do anything but just sit around the house. It must be a lot easier if you're just a Jew and not a Christian, they just live in the same communtiy and help each other. It seems like compared to them Christians just have to fend for themselves.

That is why most Jews live within easy walking distance of their Shul!

31gH9N.9. · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
That is why most Jews live within easy walking distance of their Shul!

That would make a lot of sense to do that. Why don't Messianic believers follow suit?

Doug Melven · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
He ceased to create when day 6 was complete - that was end of day 6 and the start of day 7. He rested on day 7, after creating on day 6

He ceased creating because He was finished.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The way you say it makes it seem as if God is subservient to the Sabbath.

Doug Melven · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
That is why most Jews live within easy walking distance of their Shul!

Where does God say you can only walk so far on the Sabbath?

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

31gH9N.9. said:
Howdy. I'm very new to observing the sabbath. I have gone to a few messianic/ Hebrew roots fellowships but have not found a home yet.

Anyways my question is about electricity and driving a car on the sabbath. I Feel guilty about both but then I'm left with two problems. I can't study on Friday night or early Saturday morning, and I can't attend a sabbath observant congregation. This makes it a little hard for me also because I don't get a chance to get together with other believers on this day and have to compromise by going to a church that preaches against the law and sabbath on Sunday. Also, I just sit in my room in the dark and have a really hard time with depression and anxiety and sinful thoughts and can't just read the scriptures for guidance. I know that some orthodox Jews don't use lights. How do they study when It's dark if they do at all?

Not being able to get to a Shul should not be a major problem - Messianic services are available on the internet. Leave your computer running if switching on lights is a concern, and tune into one or other of them to share in the service.

You can still walk / cycle to do other things, according to your level of observance at this point in time.

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Doug Melven said:
He ceased creating because He was finished.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The way you say it makes it seem as if God is subservient to the Sabbath.

Correction - the way you read it ...

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Doug Melven said:
Where does God say you can only walk so far on the Sabbath?

If you have read the whole thread you will see where I wrote the position about not creating, in relationship to a few things, including the car. If you cannot drive, the best thing to do is live near the Shul. That is simply G_d given common sense, really!

See: Tanach - Exodus 16:22-30; 29:21-29; Numbers 35:5; Christian Testament - Acts 1:12

Tutorman · Dec 30, 2017

31gH9N.9. said:
Sometimes I wish I could just talk to Him and learn exactly what the truth is on everything He teaches.

This is what God says:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40 nkjv

Notice nothing about light switches or anything like that. Trying to follow the law will not work only trusting in the Grade of Christ will.

Christians are not under the law:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:4-6 NKJV Emphasis added

For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) Romans 7:10 NLT

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:9 NKJV

Rely on Christ not the works of the law

Doug Melven · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
If you have read the whole thread you will see where I wrote the position about not creating, in relationship to a few things, including the car. If you cannot drive, the best thing to do is live near the Shul. That is simply G_d given common sense, really!

See: Tanach - Exodus 16:22-30; 29:21-29; Numbers 35:5; Christian Testament - Acts 1:12

Exodus 16 says you are to not even leave your dwelling on the Sabbath.
Exodus 29:21-29 does not refer to the Sabbath at all.
Numbers 35:5 talks about the size of the Levites cities.
Acts 1:12 talks about a Sabbath day's journey with no specification of how far it is.
And this "Sabbath day's journey" has no record in the OT.
I think this Sabbath day's journey is a man made rule.
Also the rule about fire is to not kindle a fire in your dwellings. Is your car your dwelling?

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Tutorman said:
This is what God says:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40 nkjv

Notice nothing about light switches or anything like that. Trying to follow the law will not work only trusting in the Grade of Christ will.

Christians are not under the law:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:4-6 NKJV Emphasis added

For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) Romans 7:10 NLT

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:9 NKJV

Rely on Christ not the works of the law

This is a Messianic Judaism forum, not a Christian forum . Please read the SOP in the top section of these Messianic fora before posting again.

Tutorman · Dec 30, 2017

Sorry about that. I forgot that and was trying to help a Christian brother understand that the law is dead to Christians but I guess not to some who want to be burden by the law

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Doug Melven said:
Exodus 16 says you are to not even leave your dwelling on the Sabbath.
Exodus 29:21-29 does not refer to the Sabbath at all.
Numbers 35:5 talks about the size of the Levites cities.
Acts 1:12 talks about a Sabbath day's journey with no specification of how far it is.
And this "Sabbath day's journey" has no record in the OT.
I think this Sabbath day's journey is a man made rule.
Also the rule about fire is to not kindle a fire in your dwellings. Is your car your dwelling?

The Exodus reading is a typo - it should read 16:21-29. That reading and other Exodus reading, and the Numbers reading set the principle that they must not walk far. The Numbers reading sets the limit if you can understand what you are reading, and the background to it. You could also look in the Mishnah to see how it was arrived at.

The Acts readings does give a distance, from a to b - it is measurable at about .57 of a mile. It is a bit steep, but walkable!

If you think G_d's word is man made that is your prerogative, but it would explain why you are confused about this.

CherubRam · Dec 30, 2017

Tutorman said:
This is what God says:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40 nkjv

Notice nothing about light switches or anything like that. Trying to follow the law will not work only trusting in the Grade of Christ will.

Christians are not under the law:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:4-6 NKJV Emphasis added

For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) Romans 7:10 NLT

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:9 NKJV

Rely on Christ not the works of the law

Here is my translation of Ephesians 2:14-19. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us one, and has broken down the middle wall partition, 15. By abolishing with his flesh the hostility of the commandment laws of ordinances; for to create in himself and us, one new man, making peace; 16. There by reconciling us to God in one body through the stake, having slain the hostility. 17. He came to those near and far preaching peace. 18. For through him we both have access to one Spirit, the Father. 19. Therefore you are not alienated foreigners, but citizens with the holy household of God.

Doug Melven · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
If you think G_d's word is man made that is your prerogative, but it would explain why you are confused about this.

I do not believe God's Word is man made.
I said "Sabbath day's journey" is man made.
And in Exodus 16:29 it says they were not to leave there dwellings.
No journeying whatsoever on the Sabbath.

Heber Book List · Dec 30, 2017

Doug Melven said:
I do not believe God's Word is man made.
I said "Sabbath day's journey" is man made.
And in Exodus 16:29 it says they were not to leave there dwellings.
No journeying whatsoever on the Sabbath.

I am not sure why you have a fixation on Ex.16. If you read it in context you will understand it. It always helps, when asking questions, if you have, at least, done your homework on the background to the points you are refuting.

The quote from Luke is, then, man made according to you, so 2 Tim 3:16 -17 is a lie? You can't have it both ways round!

Doug Melven · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
I am not sure why you have a fixation on Ex.16. If you read it in context you will understand it. It always helps, when asking questions, if you have, at least, done your homework on the background to the points you are refuting.

The quote from Luke is, then, man made according to you, so 2 Tim 3:16 -17 is a lie? You can't have it both ways round!

Luke said in Acts 1:12 that they traveled a Sabbath day's journey.
But, this concept is not found anywhere in the OT.
So in NT times it may have been a well known concept because of the Pharisees teaching.
My fixation as you call it, you were the one that told me to look at it. Post 31

HARK! · Dec 30, 2017

Heber Book List said:
This is a Messianic Judaism forum, not a Christian forum . Please read the SOP in the top section of these Messianic fora before posting again.

I was looking for Lulav's hanger! LOL!

visionary · Dec 30, 2017

Tutorman said:
This is what God says:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40 nkjv

Notice nothing about light switches or anything like that. Trying to follow the law will not work only trusting in the Grade of Christ will.

Christians are not under the law:

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:4-6 NKJV Emphasis added

For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) Romans 7:10 NLT

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:9 NKJV

Rely on Christ not the works of the law

You are saying Christians are lawless people, which isn't true. True believers are obedient children of God. The law in the scriptures you are quoting should not be understood in the context you give them. But then it takes the newness of the Spirit to understand this walk is not in the oldness of the letter and that the best way to avoid breaking the law is to be obedient to the Law like His Son who kept it perfectly as an example of how we are to live.

Electricity on the Sabbath

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