how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

LoveofTruth said:

the

Spirit and the word go together. You cannot speak of a spiritual man without his continuing in the word and even the very gospel pPaul preached was according to scripture and revelation.

To understand scripture is a deeply spiritual revelation.

I have been at this for almost 30 years. I see the very dangerous heresy you teach and according to many many scriptures it is wrong.

You also don't seem to understand God's holiness and wrath against sin. Or at least you seem not to.

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The Spirit and the Word do not always go together that is why we have two views of God's Word the letter that killeth and what the spirit quicken. You do not let God's Spirit quick any thing spiritual or hidden; I see this in your post. All you know is you MUST defend your bias and do not have an open Spirit where God can show you something outside your man made broken cistern.

Jesus took care of sin on Calvary and the word Wrath means over desire. You believe God is angry at His creation and He will get His revenge. I believe nothing happens outside of God's Sovereign will to include Adam's fall.

Many people are afraid of the word wrath. I‟m not afraid to use it because it is not a mean or vindictive word!

What is wrath? It has always been taught by the carnal church systems in a negative way and it should not be.

What is the biblical meaning of wrath?

The Greek word is orge meaning “to reach out with passionate desire and take hold of.” It is quite clear that the orge of the Lamb has nothing to do with uncontrolled anger or vindictive vengeance! The very simplest definition of the Greek word orge is “passion.” The passion of the Lamb! What a word that is! That rendering certainly reconciles the apparent contradiction inherent in the King James Bible: “The wrath of the Lamb.” Who has ever seen a wrathful lamb?

God uses symbolic spiritual words for a reason. I use to believe like you all Christian Universalist have come out of Baby-lon because they hear that hidden manna that you do not see. You have religious eyes not spiritual eyes and our so well verse in the letter you reject all new revelation. Like the goat in Matthew 25 being a clean animal that is not heresy that is a piece of hidden manna that God's Word is pregnant with. But those religious eyes will reject all things that do not fit in their broken cistern. The wall is much to hard and made from man's traditions and the letter that killeth. I am sure you have seen a little bit of God's new wine but it does not fit into what you have taught so your old wine skin will burst from the lees . Do you know what lees are? This is scriptural. They are the competencies en wine is made and the vessel must be changes for the wine to ferment.

It is not amazing how you give me a vengeful scripture or Word and there is a deeper spiritual understand that shows us God's love not His anger. The while Bible is full of the GOOD News if you have spiritual eyes to see.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

The Spirit and the Word do not always go together that is why we have two views of God's Word the letter that killeth and what the spirit quicken. You do not let God's Spirit quick any thing spiritual or hidden; I see this in your post. All you know is you MUST defend your bias and do not have an open Spirit where God can show you something outside your man made broken cistern.

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You couldn't be further from the truth n that statement. God has shown me many things in the Spirit.
I am not talking about the letter of the Mosaic law and the Old Covenant and even that is not understood but by the Spirit.

I am talking about the spirit not the letter. By the way the letter does not relate to all the New tTestament scriptures that were given by the Spirit. Paul wrote the commandments of the Lord and this was the word from God to believers, the word of truth as he said that effectually worketh in those who believe. This inward working is the mystery hidden from ages. Christ in you is the hope of glory.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

"37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant."( 1 Cor 13:37,38 KJV)


Paul also said

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Jesus said

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."(John 6:63)

The word sown in the hearts of men is the word of Christ, the word of the kingdom, the seed and truth that men hold inwardly. This word is the Light that lightieth every man and it is quick and powerful. When we read holy scrupture and particularly in the New Testament we see the men moved by the Holy Spirit and writing the words of truth.

They are one in the same. The letter, ( referring to the ministration of condemnation in the Mosaic law is different ( 2 Çor 3) you confound this with the Spirit ministration of the word and scripture from the New Testament writers.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

It is not amazing how you give me a vengeful scripture or Word and there is a deeper spiritual understand that shows us God's love not His anger. The while Bible is full of the GOOD News if you have spiritual eyes to see.

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I speak of the wrath of God and his holiness and judgement because that is misunderstood by many. They act like "how could a loving God send someone to a place of fire forever". They say "what kind of God is that?"

This shows a lack of spiritual understanding and a confusion about the very need of the gospel for salvation.

I point this out because that is one of the great errors in what is being said here by you and some

Soar Like and Eagle said:

It is not amazing how you give me a vengeful scripture or Word and there is a deeper spiritual understand that shows us God's love not His anger. The while Bible is full of the GOOD News if you have spiritual eyes to see.

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Yes God is holy love and full of mercy and compassion. But he is also

"
Psalm 7:11
"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

Psalm 5:5
"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

The wrath of the lamb. Have you ever seen a lamb get mad???

LoveofTruth said:

I speak of the wrath of God and his holiness and judgement because that is misunderstood by many. They act like "how could a loving God send someone to a place of fire forever". They say "what kind of God is that?"

This shows a lack of spiritual understanding and a confusion about the very need of the gospel for salvation.

I point this out because that is one of the great errors in what is being said here by you and some

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If there is so much error than how come I use the very same wrathful vengeful scripture you damn the people never called and make good new from the same scripture? Scripture is divine and God's Word you make it anger, wrath, hate, torture. This is how Islam sees thing NOT Jesus. His wrath is the wrath of the lamb.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

If there is so much error than how come I use the very same wrathful vengeful scripture you damn the people never called and make good new from the same scripture? Scripture is divine and God's Word you make it anger, wrath, hate, torture. This is how Islam sees thing NOT Jesus. His wrath is the wrath of the lamb.

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No you cannot understand the cross and the need for verses like this unless you understand the good, holy, just, and righteous God. Then you see the love and mercy extended to those who believe,

"4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.") Isaiah 53:4-11 KJV)

The Old Testament Conceals Christ to include the Mosaic law, The New Testament reveals Christ. You mention the word mystery which is used over twenty times in the NT. It means sacred secret. God is not angry with the loss He made them that way before there was ever a sin of Adam. God knows all things and plans all things and nothing happens outside of God's total sovereign will. Did we as a carnal person ask to live under the curse of sin and death? The creature was not subject to vanity willingly.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

The wrath of the lamb. Have you ever seen a lamb get mad???

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Revelation 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

LoveofTruth said:

No you cannot understand the cross and the need for verses like this unless you understand the good, holy, just, and righteous God. Then you see the love and mercy extended to those who believe,

"4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.") Isaiah 53:4-11 KJV)

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That is why Jesus died to reverse the sin of Adam. What is greater the sin of Adam or the blood of Jesus. You seem to think the sin is Adam is greater. Explain to me why the wrath of the Lamb?

Soar Like and Eagle said:

The Old Testament Conceals Christ to include the Mosaic law, The New Testament reveals Christ. You mention the word mystery which is used over twenty times in the NT. It means sacred secret. God is not angry with the loss He made them that way before there was ever a sin of Adam. God knows all things and plans all things and nothing happens outside of God's total sovereign will. Did we as a carnal person ask to live under the curse of sin and death? The creature was not subject to vanity willingly.

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God tempts no man, God makes no man sin God cannot be tempted with evil, nor tempteth he any man, every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.

Is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid

God worket no iniquity

it is impossible for God to lie

etc

God cannot deny himself and when men deny him, they do it of themselves.

God did not make Adam and Eve sin.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

That is why Jesus died to reverse the sin of Adam. What is greater the sin of Adam or the blood of Jesus. You seem to think the sin is Adam is greater. Explain to me why the wrath of the Lamb?

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show me the verse "reverse the sin of Adam?


waiting....

LoveofTruth said:

Revelation 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

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Amen because He is holy not because He is mad. This is spiritual language not literal physical rocks. John was in Spirit on the Lords day. The Book of revelation is the most spiritual book ever written. Mountains speak spiritually of the high place of God.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

God knows all things and plans all things and nothing happens outside of God's total sovereign will.

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but

"35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jeremiah 32;35 KJV)

LoveofTruth said:

God tempts no man, God makes no man sin God cannot be tempted with evil, nor tempteth he any man, every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.

Is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid

God worket no iniquity

it is impossible for God to lie

etc

God cannot deny himself and when men deny him, they do it of themselves.

God did not make Adam and Eve sin.

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No He made them fall. When Adam became a dust man it was his nature to do the natural thing. It was God not Adam who formed man from the dust of the earth and made Him a living soul. So you do not believe God know Adam would fall and it was not part of His plan? God is sovereign and omni-present, Omni- etc Nothing happens outside of His will

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

Notice the time frame.

LoveofTruth said:

but

"35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jeremiah 32;35 KJV)

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So God is not sovereign and carnal man's will supersedes God?

LoveofTruth said:

show me the verse "reverse the sin of Adam?


waiting....

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Here are two.



Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.





1 Corinthians 15:22-24


22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So you believe Jesus blood is weaker than the sin of Adam?

You quote a verse but did not explain the wrath of the lamb?