Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

Sheep dog

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Also, what about 1 John 1:8?
Are Christians here thinking that they must have sin in their life right now or they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them? Is that what 1 John 1:8 is saying?
Just ignore the rest of the chapter. Not cool.
 
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Sheep dog

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Ah, then you would then be the third rare person I have ran into (over my many years of talking with OSAS proponents) who believes that Eternal Security is false but yet you hold to the idea that is similar to them that a believer does not need to have works or holiness as a part of the salvation process in the faith (In addition to God's saving grace).
Similar is never the same.
 
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Sheep dog

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Well, there is no need for you to be cruel with me, my friend. Just tell me the truth. Do you believe it is possible for a believer to overcome serious sin (like murder, lying, coveting, adultery, etc.) in this life? Yes, or no?
Cruel?
 
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SBC

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Of course I don't :). Jn 3:16, 5:24; Acts 16:30-31; Rom 4, 6:23; Eph 2:8-9 and more. Being saved is justification.Yes and this isn't progressive especially based on anything we do. It's a gift which only requires acceptance.In regards to salvation only the soul receives which are manifest in the body. This doesn't mean other blessings aren't received directly to the body. What a bunch of hooey.Not remotely what I posted.

Sure being saved, is justification, as is being born of God.....being justified to receive reward for doing works that glorify God....which is not justified for an unsaved person to receive.

Yep agree, it requires acceptance.
Yep agree, the soul becomes saved by restoration. The body becomes dead in Christ. The spirit becomes born again.

Bunch of hooey, that ANY man Jew or Gentile can receive saving by and through Christ's Blood....or not??

Justification thereafter affects the body, soul, spirit, of a man. Without justification, a mans works are not justified to be rewarded.
If you think that diminishes Jesus' dying, I disagree.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Sheep dog

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So you are saying that you read every single post of a topic you partake in within every thread on a Christian forum? Even if you did do that, you should not expect others to do the same. People are very busy and or others share things that are not profitable.
Yes I do. Many of the posts you seem to deny reading were written to you by quoting your post.
 
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Sheep dog

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Sure being saved, is justification, as is being born of God.....being justified to receive reward for doing works that glorify God....which is not justified for an unsaved person to receive.
If you in't justified, you in't saved and on your way to a warm retirement.
 
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Roseonathorn

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You reap what You sow and You do not pick figs on a lemontree. Remember that Paul called himself a follower of God when He killed christians. He did not know Christ but He was religious. He turned and became christian Himself and started bearing another fruit. I think He overcame grave sins as murder.
 
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Sheep Dog:

Sorry, I am placing you on ignore. You are not referring to the context to the verses I posted and you are merely bringing forth verses that just favor what you believe. You also think I attacked you personally on the forums when that was not the case with my words and my heart and thoughts.

Good day to you sir.
May God bless you.
 
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I was working on a reply to you with my stiff arthritic fingers but restarted my browser, and this deficient forum software does not save and restore text, and I am not about to start over, since i have already dealt with this sufficiently, most of which has been ignored. And thus and what we see is more assertions of error. Which most basically is, i a nut shell:

While you may imagine that you have arrived at the point which you no longer occasionally sin, and that the moment on sins he is lost, and thus penitent confession of all sin is required to be saved, yet,
  • what love for God out of your whole heart, mind, soul and strength,
  • and love for your neighbor as yourself
  • (and for brethren as Christ loved us, fervently)
  • requires in all your conscious moments,
  • in heart word and deed,
  • in what you should and what you should not do,
  • and the awareness and remembering of all such,
  • and the depth of all such,
is so extensive that one is in delusion who thinks they no longer occasionally sin, or that they were aware of and remembered all such unto penitent confession, and to the depth of what they did. They are neither conscious nor aware of the scope and the depth of their sin, and which would require not simply repentance but repentance corresponding to that depth, which blindness itself is due to defect of heart.

And to avoid occasionally sinning "Sinless Perfection" is required, "having reached a state whereby someone has put away even minor transgressions or faults out of their life," for any and all sin defiles. And to be aware and remember all sins also requires the extreme.

God knows how many sins I have done and was not aware of, let alone the depth, and the sinfulness of my heart. And for me sinning can even be letting a lost soul go close by me without giving them one of the gospel tracts i most always have on me (not trying to get in the way of souls headed to destruction with some means at hand can be sin), or not being sensitive to the Spirit of Christ, thus grieving Him, including on the time is to eat. (Or in restarting my browser without checking with Him, though that was not due to bodily desire, and may not be sin). And I have suffered much by doing a good charitable thing, even in obedience to leadership, but not walking in the fear of God, and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:31) in His will.

Also, from 684 to 1050 (with repetitions in the latter at least) commandments have been counted in the New Testament.

In addition, to not sin occasionally in all your conscious moments, in heart word and deed, in commission and omission, means that you have indeed arrived at the stage of perfection of character which is necessary to not sin occasionally. To fail to do so means iniquity is still to be found in you, even if latent and has not been expressed in actions, and thus you are not wholly holy in flesh and spirit.

And while it seems (as i recall) you have gone from denying that Christians can occasionally sin and be saved to requiring penitent confession of all such, thus requiring perfect awareness and memories of sin, you now made a distinction btwn "serious sin" and lesser sin. Yet while some sins can result in quick unrepentant death, yet the wages of any and all sin is death, leading to the second death, unless one has appropriated imputed righteousness by contrite repentant faith which essentially is repentant about all sin, as described, even if not aware of them all, nor been so fully crucified with Christ that they no longer will sin.

Therefore in the light of what this obedience really means then according to the false accursed gospel of Jason0047 is that anyone and everyone who fails in love for God out of their whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love for your neighbor as yourself (and for brethren as Christ loved us, fervently) in commission and omission is Hell bound unless and until they contritely confess their failure in each and every time. And if they not aware of even on failure, or did not remember to ask forgiveness for it then they will end up in Hell.

And thus at best the Christian life is a series of innumerable switching of their status from saved to lost to lost to saved (possibly) until they arrive at the condition of perfection of character needed to prevent occasional sin.

I have already explained that while those who willfully continue impenitently in sin testify to being unbelievers, and thus will be lost, yet the key issue is faith, and saving justifying faith is that of a poor and contrite heart, which thus hungers and thirsts to be in heart and practice what he is in Christ already. And thus he characteristically practices righteousness, and his failures/sins are usually out of weakness, and which he is repentant about in general and will not be damned for if he is not aware of them or forgotten, or the scope and depth of what he has confessed.

But such will penitently ask the Lord for forgiveness for sins he is aware of, and especially will remember any willful sins, and while Scripture promises salvation to the same Christians who have yet to attain the level in which they no longer will occasionally sin, yet it clearly warns believers as believers against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, drawing back unto perdition, back into bondage, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, falling from grace, etc., (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39; Gal. 5:1-5) as shown in a post on another thread. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

And contrary to your gospel, Scripture does indeed promise salvation to the same Christians who have yet to attain the level in which they no longer will occasionally sin, as it exhorts them to so do, to live in practice what they are positionally by faith:
  • If ye then be risen with Christ [positionally], seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead [positionally], and your life is hid with Christ in God. (Colossians 3:1-3)
  • When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:4)
  • Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; (Colossians 3:5-9)
  • Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. (Colossians 3:12-13)
Here believers are taught they will be with Christ since they believe, and thus no longer live in these things of the flesh, yet they need to overcome these sins by crucifixion of the flesh and the putting on of Christ.

What they are not told is neither that they can live in these sins and lay claim to being a saved believer, nor that they will only appear with the Lord in glory if they successfully stop sinning entirely, or are aware of and confess every failure that falls under wholehearted love for God and each other. Instead, they are exhorted to live in practice what they are in position as souls who will be with Christ by a faith which no longer lives in sin, but has yet not overcome all sinning.

To presume they were aware and remembered all their post-conversion sins unto impenitent confession in accordance with the depth is absurd, and is in contrast to being saved by purifying justifying faith which is penitent, even it not being aware of or remembering all their sin. Such is a true believer and is accounted righteousness, which is holy faith is the basis for his saved status, and as with David in Ps. 51 (which was after God had put away his sins) the focus of his confession of sin to God is that of his relationship with God, and his quest to fully restore that now-scarred relationship.

I have no need to deal with more of your objections and logical fallacies in which your conclusions are based on false premises. Last week I was refuting liberal Christians who marginalize the emphasis on personal purity, and this week it is those who deny Christians sin (based on their definitions) or otherwise effectively argue they must toggle btwn saved and lost based upon every single failure of constant total love of God and others, and have perfect awareness and remembrance of such unto penitent confession, until the next failure in heart, word or deed, in commission and omission.

Neither extreme is what we see in the collective totality of the NT.

I agree that it is not one extreme or the other. One extreme is "Works Alone Salvationism" and the other extreme is "Easy Believism."

As for whether believers can walk uprightly:

Jesus said, with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

Oh, and Here Are Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).
 
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SBC

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You reap what You sow and You do not pick figs on a lemontree. Remember that Paul called himself a follower of God when He killed christians. He did not know Christ but He was religious. He turned and became christian Himself and started bearing another fruit. I think He overcame grave sins as murder.

Remember God SHALL REAP what He sows!
It is HIS SEED He plants within a man.
It is HIS SEED that is sustained BY His Power.
It is HIS SEED that He gives His knowledge, His wisdom, His understanding.
It is He who shall reap the Harvest from His SEED.

Yes, There is nothing too great that God will not Forgive......EXCEPT LYING to the Holy Spirit.....

God Bless,
SBC
 
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In addition, to not sin occasionally in all your conscious moments, in heart word and deed, in commission and omission, means that you have indeed arrived at the stage of perfection of character which is necessary to not sin occasionally. To fail to do so means iniquity is still to be found in you, even if latent and has not been expressed in actions, and thus you are not wholly holy in flesh and spirit.

I believe Scripture when it says that with God, all things are possible.
I believe Paul when he says that we are to cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Oh, and is my life the standard of what God's Word says?
No. God's Word is true regardless of how man lives.

You said:
And while it seems (as i recall) you have gone from denying that Christians can occasionally sin and be saved to requiring penitent confession of all such, thus requiring perfect awareness and memories of sin, you now made a distinction btwn "serious sin" and lesser sin. Yet while some sins can result in quick unrepentant death, yet the wages of any and all sin is death, leading to the second death, unless one has appropriated imputed righteousness by contrite repentant faith which essentially is repentant about all sin, as described, even if not aware of them all, nor been so fully crucified with Christ that they no longer will sin.

1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin that does not lead unto death.
1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism does not save for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin).
So these are not sins that lead to the second death.
Speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven.
So yes, there are lesser sins and greater sins.
For Jesus Himself says there is a greater sin.

You said:
Therefore in the light of what this obedience really means then according to the false accursed gospel of Jason0047

It is against forum rules to insult or flame me on the forums. I was going to report your post, but I figure I will give you a chance to apologize for being unsulting towards me first. Granted, we do not have to agree with each others beliefs and we can even think they are wrong, but please do not slander my name in any way. It is a violation of forum rules to do that and it is not nice.

You said:
Therefore in the light of what this obedience really means then according to the false accursed gospel of Jason0047 is that anyone and everyone who fails in love for God out of their whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love for your neighbor as yourself (and for brethren as Christ loved us, fervently) in commission and omission is Hell bound unless and until they contritely confess their failure in each and every time. And if they not aware of even on failure, or did not remember to ask forgiveness for it then they will end up in Hell.

Well, to not love God and to not love your neighbor are sins that lead unto spiritual death.
How so?

Well, here are the consequences of not loving God:
“If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.”(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jesus is God; And Paul says if any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, he is accursed (Anathema).

What about not loving your neighbor?

Well, Jesus says our neighbor is the poor or the abused person on the side of the road (See the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37). In Matthew 25:41-46, Jesus says the person who did not help the poor in their life was as if they did not do such a thing unto the Lord and they will be cast into everlasting fire. So by not loving their neighbor, they were not loving the Lord our God, as well (Which has eternal consequences). I also believe that there are also consequences to not loving God with our soul (i.e. our whole life), as well. And Jesus said to him, "No one having laid the hand upon the plow, and looking on the things behind, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62). "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 16:25). One church was told to repent because they lost their first love. They hated the evil deeds of others, but they were no longer doing the first works of the faith anymore (See Revelation 2:1-7). They fell out of love with God. They lost the heart aspect in loving God. For they lost their first love. Loving God with all our minds requires us to renew our minds so as to discern between good and evil. Loving God with all our strength is sort of like striving to enter in by the narrow gate with the Lord. It is sort of like working out one's salvation with fear and trembling. We are to be overcomers with the Lord. For the unproftiable servant will be cast into outer darkness.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus
. - 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

The individual spoken of in these verses was saved. And as others have noted, was eventually welcomed back into fellowship.

1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.

2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?

3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.

4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.

6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
- 2 Corinthians 2:1-11

In regard to your claim that 1 Corinthians 5 was not written concerning the admonishment of an actual born again believer, when you understand the context of 1 Corinthians and who this Epistle is written to, you can see that is exactly what is being dealt with.

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. - 1 Corinthians 1:1-11

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
- 1 Corinthians 3:1-3

Concerning the restoration of a believer to fellowship, consider also Galatians 6:1-2

1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

The fact that such things can and do occur among born again, sanctified believers is precisely why Paul writes regarding how to deal with such things and how to restore a brother or sister in Christ to fellowship.

So, we can see when we read 1 Corinthians in context that Paul was indeed addressing a church of born again, sanctified brethren. Believers in Christ Jesus.


Amariselle.....thank you so much for this.....doing the typing I am too lazy to perform....lol....God has blessed you—- May He continue to do so!
 
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amariselle

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Amariselle.....thank you so much for this.....doing the typing I am too lazy to perform....lol....God has blessed you—- May He continue to do so!

You're very welcome Blood Bought. :) (I simply copied and pasted the Scripture)

Thank you for all you continue to share. I hope you had a blessed Christmas.
 
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You're very welcome Blood Bought. :) (I simply copied and pasted the Scripture)

Thank you for all you continue to share. I hope you had a blessed Christmas.


Having the support of a true sister in Christ like you blesses me more than you will ever know! Your posts are thrilling to me,truly God- inspired.May God continue to bless you!
 
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PeaceByJesus

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I agree that it is not one extreme or the other. One extreme is "Works Alone Salvationism" and the other extreme is "Easy Believism."

As for whether believers can walk uprightly:

Jesus said, with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

Oh, and Here Are Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).
Why are you responding to me as if i denied believers can walk uprightly? I contend against liberals by shown the same or like text. The issue is that walking walk uprightly means sinlessly, thus attaining the perfection of character to do so, or to be aware and remember and thus penitently confess every failure to love God with all your being and neighbor as thyself and believers with fervent in all your conscious moments, in commission and omission, and keep all 600+ NT commands.

You are the one who asserted to "sin even on rare occasion our whole lives is to admit defeat to sin," "if a believer does die in unrepentant sin it is a judgment against them....There is no case where a believer can die in unrepentant serious sin and be saved because that would mean God would have to agree with sin."

But you cannot be consistent introduce a separation of sin based on serious versus non-serious, for even one sin would send one to Hell unless they are counted as righteous by holy faith. And you attempt to do so with "sin unto death" is not sound, for it refers to judgment in this life, thus some persons can do the same things which brought execution for them, but not experience it. But the wages of all sin is death.

And if you make exception for less than deadly sin, then it must be on the basis of they are counted as righteous by holy faith, and which is what i argue as justifying penitent Christians who sometimes sin yet hunger and thirst to be like Christ, and thus are repentant about sin in general, and repent when convicted of it, but who are not denying the faith by not confessing sin they are convicted of, unlike those who will not repent but willfully continue in impenitent sin. Those are the ones Scripture warns against as departing from the living God.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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I believe Scripture when it says that with God, all things are possible.
I believe Paul when he says that we are to cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Oh, and is my life the standard of what God's Word says?
No. God's Word is true regardless of how man lives.

1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin that does not lead unto death.
1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism does not save for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin).
So these are not sins that lead to the second death.
Speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven.
So yes, there are lesser sins and greater sins.
For Jesus Himself says there is a greater sin.
Nothing new here that has not been refuted, yet we see it again, except your actual attempt to justify it.

First , as said I myself quote texts such as 2 Corinthians 7:1 in refuting liberals who marginalize such, and i have quoted such even toward you in showing you those who needed these text were also told they would be with the Lord. But it seems you continues to think i this supports your gospel and is contrary to my correction, which it simply is not.

Secondly, 1 John 5:16-17 does not say what the sin is that is unto death, though blasphemy against the Spirit one, but searching the Scripture we know that, "the wages of sin is death," (Romans 6:23) and that "The soul that sinneth, it shall die," (Ezekiel 18:20) and that "if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die," (Romans 8:13) and "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of [or "as"] all. (James 2:10)

Thus what we see in Scripture is that any sin can send one to Hell - unless one converts or returns to repentant faith. But as explained and ignored, there is the terminal sin of apostasy, the denial of the faith, which seems to be where Heb. 6 comes in with its warning of partakers of the Holy Ghost becoming impossible to renew "again unto repentance," and thus are "nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned," (Hebrews 6:4-8) and thus becoming reprobates: "Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

Which easily corresponds to the "great transgression" of the OT, of wickedly departing from the Lord, and which feared condition is perhaps why David prayed he would be "innocent from the great transgression," (Ps. 19:13) and that despite his capital crimes, could claim "I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God." (2 Samuel 22:22)

Thus in he light of Scripture see that while any sin can send one to Hell (here are 40) apart from repentant faith in the risen Lord Jesus save them on His account, His sinless shed blood, yet one sin is terminal as excluding repentance.

Thus while believers are to "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (2 Timothy 2:25-26)

Yet John tell us there are those who have committed a sin unto death which need not be prayed for, and Scripture warns believers as believers against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, drawing back unto perdition, back into bondage, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, falling from grace, etc., (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39; Gal. 5:1-5)

What it does not warn believers against is what your gospel does.

Therefore in the light of what this obedience really means then according to the false accursed gospel of Jason0047 is that anyone and everyone who fails in love for God out of their whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love for your neighbor as yourself (and for brethren as Christ loved us, fervently) in commission and omission is Hell bound unless and until they contritely confess their failure in each and every time. And if they not aware of even on failure, or did not remember to ask forgiveness for it then they will end up in Hell.

It is against forum rules to insult or flame me on the forums. I was going to report your post, but I figure I will give you a chance to apologize for being unsulting towards me first.
Seeing as you do not deny this gospel as i described it then there will be no apology, for what i did is insult what you are arguing, versus using ad hominem, and while you are insulted by this Biblical label, you have effectively insulted CF and broke forum rules by relegating an entire group of what CDF classes as Christians to Hell.

I encourage you to report this to the mods, as it would be very revealing to know if they find your gospel to be protected from such censure, and sanction you for implicitly damning all Christians here and for all history who believe on the Lord Jesus save them on His account, on His sinless shed blood, and walk in overall holiness with repentant faith, yet have not contritely confessed every single failure of love for God out of their whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love for their neighbor as themselves and for brethren as Christ loved us, fervently, in thought, word and deed.

If you want to deny this is what your gospel is and tweak it some more (maybe another class of serious sin), then do so.

Well, to not love God and to not love your neighbor are sins that lead unto spiritual death.

How so?


Well, here are the consequences of not loving God:

“If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.”(1 Corinthians 16:22).


Jesus is God; And Paul says if any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, he is accursed (Anathema).


What about not loving your neighbor?


Well, Jesus says our neighbor is the poor or the abused person on the side of the road (See the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37). In Matthew 25:41-46, Jesus says the person who did not help the poor in their life was as if they did not do such a thing unto the Lord and they will be cast into everlasting fire. So by not loving their neighbor, they were not loving the Lord our God, as well (Which has eternal consequences). I also believe that there are also consequences to not loving God with our soul (i.e. our whole life), as well. And Jesus said to him, "No one having laid the hand upon the plow, and looking on the things behind, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62). "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 16:25). One church was told to repent because they lost their first love. They hated the evil deeds of others, but they were no longer doing the first works of the faith anymore (See Revelation 2:1-7). They fell out of love with God. They lost the heart aspect in loving God. For they lost their first love. Loving God with all our minds requires us to renew our minds so as to discern between good and evil. Loving God with all our strength is sort of like striving to enter in by the narrow gate with the Lord. It is sort of like working out one's salvation with fear and trembling. We are to be overcomers with the Lord. For the unproftiable servant will be cast into outer darkness.
Which simply works against your attempt to restrict the damned to "unrepentant serious sin." Thus what we see in Scripture is that any sin can send one to Hell - unless one converts or returns to repentant faith, but it is that faith that is counted for righteousness, and which is so even though he may not be aware of and remember and be convicted of and thus penitently confess to God every single failure to love God with his whole being and His neighbor as himself, and brethren fervently as Christ did, but, who is characteristically repentant of sin overall, and penitently asks forgiveness for sins he is convicted of, and wishes he would never sin. And those who hunger and thirst for this will be filled, thanks be to God.

unlike those who will not repent but willfully continue in impenitent sin.
 
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And thus at best the Christian life is a series of innumerable switching of their status from saved to lost to lost to saved (possibly) until they arrive at the condition of perfection of character needed to prevent occasional sin.

If such is not the case then God would have to agree with sin in order for that plan of salvation to work. For while God can honor a person who is sorrowful over their sin and who may struggle and confess their sin (Seeking to overcome it), if they never really overcome their sin and stop, then this shows that they are not truly repentant. How so? Well, Jesus defines true repentance for us in Matthew 12:41.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God.
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways.​

After the Ninevites had turned from their wicked ways it was --- THEN --- that God decided to turn away from bringing wrath or Judgment upon them.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as he [Christ] is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Repentance is something that a believer does when they first come to the faith. They admit they are a sinner to Jesus and ask Him to be forgiven of their sins. They do this with the intention that they will turn away from sin and never do it again. Repentance can also be done on occasion (and not as a lifestyle) by a believer who has walked with God, as well. This would be 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:9 (cf. 1 John 1:7).

The parable of the two sons (Matthew 21:28-32) is a lesson also in proper repentance. The son who repented and obeyed the father is the one who repented.

You said:
I have already explained that while those who willfully continue impenitently in sin testify to being unbelievers, and thus will be lost, yet the key issue is faith, and saving justifying faith is that of a poor and contrite heart, which thus hungers and thirsts to be in heart and practice what he is in Christ already. And thus he characteristically practices righteousness, and his failures/sins are usually out of weakness, and which he is repentant about in general and will not be damned for if he is not aware of them or forgotten, or the scope and depth of what he has confessed.

Well, it is true that not all sin is the same. To whom much is given, much is required. However, the Moral Law of Love is written on even the Gentile's hearts (Romans 2:15). God will also convict the world of sin because they believe not on Jesus Christ, as well (John 16:8-9). For the global flood was an example to all who should live ungodly thereafter (2 Peter 2:5-6). So an unbeliever is without excuse if he breaks God's Eternal Moral Laws. God will bring to attention and convict a believer to repent of any sin that is causing them spiritual death. God's Eternal Moral Laws (after the "Fall") are laws such as: "Do not murder, do not covet, do not lie, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc." So are you saying that a believer can be right with God and unknowingly be breaking God's Eternal Moral Laws and still be saved? Can they be sleeping around with lots of women and think that is not wrong? Can they be lying and think that such a thing is not wrong? Can they be stealing and not know that such a thing is wrong? If so, I do not see how that is any different than somebody knowingly breaking God's laws and thinking they are saved. Jesus says, he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14). Paul says we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). How are we to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit if we will always have filthiness of the flesh and spirit within our lives? It makes no sense.

You said:
But such will penitently ask the Lord for forgiveness for sins he is aware of, and especially will remember any willful sins, and while Scripture promises salvation to the same Christians who have yet to attain the level in which they no longer will occasionally sin, yet it clearly warns believers as believers against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, drawing back unto perdition, back into bondage, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, falling from grace, etc., (Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39; Gal. 5:1-5)

I agree with what you had written in this paragraph here. But you said before that a believer may not always be unsaved if they commit sin as long as they repent of it later and they do not intend to sin. This is a problem for me:

#1. If God's Word teaches that we can sin and be saved as long as we do not intend to sin and we are confessing sin and we are striving to overcome such sin and we are generally living holy, then that can lead a person to deceive themselves about their own sin in their life. They can slip into the thinking that they can willfully sin and be saved and yet it is okay because they have mind tricked themselves that they are not intending to sin and that they do not do it very often.

#2. We see examples in Scripture of just one sin separating a believer on a spiritual level from God. Adam was separated spiritually by his one sin from God (Genesis 2:17) (1 Corinthians 15:22). David also was separated spiritually by his sins of murder and adultery. It was only when he repented in Psalms 51 whereby he was restored (Psalms 51:9-12). Peter told Simon to repent of his wickedness to the Lord and pray that the Lord would forgive him for his sin in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

You said:
And contrary to your gospel, Scripture does indeed promise salvation to the same Christians who have yet to attain the level in which they no longer will occasionally sin, as it exhorts them to so do, to live in practice what they are positionally by faith:

The Bible never says the words, "practice righteousness."

It says,
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,..." (1 John 3:7).
"He that committeth sin is of the devil;..." (1 John 3:8).

Also, when you say they are "positionally by faith", what do you mean by that?
Does that mean that just because a person has a belief alone on Jesus they are positionally saved by Christ their entire walk?
If that is what you are saying, 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So it is more than just a belief that is required to have the blood cleanse us from all sin.
Faith is more than a belief alone. For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).
James says show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith with works (James 2:18).
Why? Because faith without works is dead (James 2:17). So one cannot have a faith (that is lived out) without works. Works are a natural by-product of faith.

You said:
  • If ye then be risen with Christ [positionally], seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead [positionally], and your life is hid with Christ in God. (Colossians 3:1-3)
  • When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:4)
  • Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; (Colossians 3:5-9)
  • Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. (Colossians 3:12-13)
Here believers are taught they will be with Christ since they believe, and thus no longer live in these things of the flesh, yet they need to overcome these sins by crucifixion of the flesh and the putting on of Christ.

By what you said here, it sounds good. But we unfortunately appear to again disagree on other important points, my friend.

Anyways, if do not agree, I think it is best we agree to disagree and not have any hostility towards each other. I believe we are "Initially Saved" and "Ultimately Saved" by God's grace. But I do not believe that God's grace can be used as a license to even sin a little bit (even unknowingly or unintentionally). For the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

Good day to you;
And may God's love shine upon you today.
 
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Why are you responding to me as if i denied believers can walk uprightly? I contend against liberals by shown the same or like text. The issue is that walking walk uprightly means sinlessly, thus attaining the perfection of character to do so, or to be aware and remember and thus penitently confess every failure to love God with all your being and neighbor as thyself and believers with fervent in all your conscious moments, in commission and omission, and keep all 600+ NT commands.

As I said before.

#1. Not all sin leads to spiritual death (See 1 John 5:16-17).
#2. The breaking of the Moral Law (that is not repented of) leads to spiritual death (Revelation 21:8).
#3. "Sinless Perfection" (as taught in the Scriptures here) is not exclusively dealing with keeping of the Moral Law alone. "Sinless Perfection" also deals with perfecting minor character flaws and living completely in the will of God. For example: Jesus says to be perfect like the Father, we are to love our enemies (Matthew 5:43-48). Jesus said to the rich young ruler that if he wanted to be perfect, he was to sell all that he had and give it to the poor (Matthew 19:21). James says if a man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man (James 3:2). So a believer who has not attained a state of "Sinless Perfection" does not mean that they are not saved. Nowhere did I ever say such a thing.

As for not loving God and our neighbor with our entire being (and being saved):
Can we love God just a little? Can we just love our neighbor a little?
But does not God's love consume us and make us to grow?
Does not Jesus spew the lukewarm church out of his mouth?
Jesus would prefer that we are either hot or cold.
Oh, and yes; This applies to me as it applies to every other believer out there.
So I am not telling you or any other Christian anything that would not also apply to me, as well.
We have to submit to God fully and not half way.
God does not want half our hearts. God wants us to have new hearts and to have new desires that are in 100% in service to Him. Our very mind, heart, and soul should be in the love of God.

But what passage says we have to love God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind and our neighbor as a part of having life (i.e. eternal life)?

This one right here says it:

And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." (Luke 10:27-28).

For the efforts with our heart with God is very important. Why?
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).
Keeping God's commands in the New Testament is very important. Why?
1 John 2:3-4 says, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (1 John 4:7-8).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

Granted, I am not trying to minimize God's grace here. It is 100% true that we are saved by God's grace without works when we first come to Him and or how we are ultimately saved (For we do not get clean by doing a good work, but we get clean by confessing our sins to the Lord); However, we also have to keep God's commands as a part of the salvation process, as well. For it shows that we continually abiding in the love of God. For God is love.

You said:
You are the one who asserted to "sin even on rare occasion our whole lives is to admit defeat to sin," "if a believer does die in unrepentant sin it is a judgment against them....There is no case where a believer can die in unrepentant serious sin and be saved because that would mean God would have to agree with sin."

But you cannot be consistent introduce a separation of sin based on serious versus non-serious, for even one sin would send one to Hell unless they are counted as righteous by holy faith. And you attempt to do so with "sin unto death" is not sound, for it refers to judgment in this life, thus some persons can do the same things which brought execution for them, but not experience it. But the wages of all sin is death. And if you make exception for less than deadly sin, then it must be on the basis of they are counted as righteous by holy faith, and which is what i argue as justifying penitent Christians who sometimes sin yet hunger and thirst to be like Christ, and thus are repentant about sin in general, and repent when convicted of it, but who are not denying the faith

No. That is not true. 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin that is not unto death.

You said:
...by not confessing sin they are convicted of, unlike those who will not repent but willfully continue in impenitent sin. Those are the ones Scripture warns against as departing from the living God.

There are Eternal Security Proponents who said that they can sin as much as they want willingly as long as they confess their sins. Granted, you are not saying that exactly; But you are saying that a believer does not lose his salvation if he sins unintentionally and or it is done on rare occasion (As long as they are generally living holy). I am not denying that God cannot extend mercy to men of God who struggle with sin. I believe both Samson and Solomon were saved men of God in the end. But I believe they were men who were pure of heart (even though they did many wrongs in their life). But the New Covenant sets the bar higher for believers. Samson and Solomon did not have the opportunity to follow Jesus and His teachings like we have today and to walk in His footsteps (and be perfect). Such a thing was not available to them. We are saved by God's grace, but God cannot agree with sin (even if it is supposedly done unintentionally and or on rare occasion). We still have to repent in order to be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This verse would be meaningless rubbish if a believer thought they did not have to confess their sin to God because they did not intend to sin and this was an isolated one time occurrence in their life. Remember, it only took one sin to separate Adam from God. So believers should not even try and justify even one sin as being okay with God. Saying it is unintentional and or done on occasion does not erase the death sentence of a serious sin, my friend. For example: Let's say it was the sin of lying. If a believer lied and it was only one time and it was not done with any intention, but yet that believer refused to repent of such a sin because they have a belief on Jesus as their Savior, this would then undo what 1 John 1:9, Psalms 32:5, Proverbs 28:13, and other verses say. In fact, Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. So if a believer did not confess their sin to the Lord about their sin of lying, then how are they expressing a Godly sorrow that is a part of repentance? Especially when it says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Are we to assume that somebody is not a liar just because they did not intend to lie and they did it only once?
 
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