Heaven

Viren · Dec 26, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
Paul's final words to the Ephesus elders are in Acts 20:19-31, including: "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:30) Paul was also concerned about rightly dividing the Truth (2 Tim 2:15).

If "The kingdom of God is within you" was meant the way you and dreadnought use it, then why is there so much in the New Testament about a place?

It's spiritual language. Kind of like the 9 fruits of the Spirit are all ways of being. Patience, kindness, self control, love, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness.

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
Consider who Jesus was talking to when He spoke Luke 17:21--He was talking to the pharisees who were challenging Him. Read the rest of the chapter (Luke 17:22-37): "Then He said unto the disciples...." If heaven is within us, how does 1 Thes 4:13-17 make any sense?

If our sum total is our physical body how does 2 Peater 1:13 make any sense? "I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me."

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
What about the 1 Cor 15:13-58? What about Rev 6:9-11? What are the martyrs waiting for, if they were already in heaven before they died on earth? What is the purpose of John sharing Revelation, especially Rev 20:10-15 and Rev 21:1-8, if heaven is achieved when you repent of your sins? Why would Jesus even have to speak to the 7 churches in Rev 2 & 3? Worse, why would He only make promises to those who overcame--if upon repentance everyone had already achieved heaven in their mind?

In short, I would challenge you to re-examine your understanding of what Jesus meant in Luke 17:21.

I believe in the resurrection, but it's raised a spiritual body. Otherwise, the church being the body of Christ wouldn't make any sense.

Also, if Revelation is taken literally, how does Revelation 2:26 make any sense? 26 "To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’"

So according to this only one person will overcome and they will rule over all the nations. Personally, I don't think I will be the only one and rule over Russia, China, India....etc. This is clearly spiritual language imo.

DamianWarS · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
And what would lead you to say that?

the Nicene creed

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
I agree. It is easier for you to repent. Start by being honest with yourself. If you could exchange Scriptures, you would. You can't, so you don't. Instead, you just make claims you can't back up.

If "heaven" is all in your heart and head, then you can make your own god--like the shackian god that Young creates; because who you design doesn't have to be in concert with the only True and Living God described in what we call the New Testament.

Again, as a simple--and yet ignored by you multiple times--example: Paul clearly repented of his sin. And, it is hard for anyone to justify that Paul wasn't wholly dedicated to God after his encounter with Jesus Christ. Yet, Paul clearly taught there was something more that he was looking forward to. If he "came into heaven" when he repented, then why did he look for something greater--as Paul clearly believed that it was better for Him to be somewhere else. (Phil 1:23-24, for example). If in heaven there is no more suffering, then why did Paul have to complain to God about a thorn in his flesh, if he was already in heaven? Was "the heaven" you would claim Paul received just not good enough and he was only vainly hoping for more?

I think the path to repentance is being aware of the sin we are committing and knocking it off.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

DamianWarS said:
the Nicene creed

I think the words of God and Jesus trump things that we come up with.

Stormy · Dec 26, 2017

If this is Heaven then its been way over rated.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Stormy said:
If this is Heaven then its been way over rated.

I don't think so. There are consequences to our sin, so as long as we sin, we will have difficulty.

Stormy · Dec 26, 2017

I feel bad for you. Beccause when hurtful things happen in your life, instead of knowing that God is with you and holding you while you cry... You will be blaming yourself and feeling like you were in charge and caused all the pain.
You are so wrong. Bad things happen to good people that know and love God. Good things happen to bad people.
God causes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on us all.
Life is not heaven.
I have lost two of my children. There is not a day that goes by that I do not reach to God for comfort. And I know that when I part this life to be with him...
Then, and only then, will he wipe my tears away and I will cry no more. I will be in heaven

Tutorman · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
I think the words of God and Jesus trump things that we come up with.

It's all words we come up with and I can tell you the Nicene creed trumps anything evangelicals can come up with

DamianWarS · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
I think the words of God and Jesus trump things that we come up with.

Perhaps you should read the forum rules first

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Stormy said:
I feel bad for you. Beccause when hurtful things happen in your life, instead of knowing that God is with you and holding you while you cry... You will be blaming yourself and feeling like you were in charge and caused all the pain.
You are so wrong. Bad things happen to good people that know and love God. Good things happen to bad people.
God causes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on us all.
Life is not heaven.
I have lost two of my children. There is not a day that goes by that I do not reach to God for comfort. And I know that when I part this life to be with him...
Then, and only then, will he wipe my tears away and I will cry no more. I will be in heaven

You might remember that Jesus said none but the Father is good. However, the point would be that when we repent of our sin, we are at peace no matter what happens.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Tutorman said:
It's all words we come up with and I can tell you the Nicene creed trumps anything evangelicals can come up with

I think the words of God and Jesus are sufficient, coupled with a personal relationship with our Father in heaven.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

DamianWarS said:
Perhaps you should read the forum rules first

My allegiance is to our Father in heaven.

Tutorman · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
I think the words of God and Jesus are sufficient, coupled with a personal relationship with our Father in heaven.

You have to agree with the Nicene Creed to post here in the Christian section, if you do not you are breaking the rules.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

from the statement of faith for CF:

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed
We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

Cat Loaf You · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
And what would lead you to say that?

Because this universe is forced to die soon or later and Christians are promised eternal life , you don't have to be genius to figure out that we must be taken out of this corrupted universe and put to new one without entropy .

Smylie · Dec 26, 2017

I think you're confusing Heaven with being generally happy on Earth through God. It might seem like Heaven while you're happy on Earth through God, but it's not. Heaven will 100% be better.

DamianWarS · Dec 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
My allegiance is to our Father in heaven.

Don't you mean "our Father in his state of peace of mind". Does this allegiance cause you to disrespect a public Christian forum by conflicting their SoF? There is a spot in CF for this kind of dialog... it's not here.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Tutorman said:
You have to agree with the Nicene Creed to post here in the Christian section, if you do not you are breaking the rules.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

from the statement of faith for CF:

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed
We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

I don't know what the Nicene Creed says. I am a follower of Jesus Christ.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Cat Loaf You said:
Because this universe is forced to die soon or later and Christians are promised eternal life , you don't have to be genius to figure out that we must be taken out of this corrupted universe and put to new one without entropy .

Yes, there is a life after this one. I call it the resurrection.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

Smylie said:
I think you're confusing Heaven with being generally happy on Earth through God. It might seem like Heaven while you're happy on Earth through God, but it's not. Heaven will 100% be better.

I think heaven is peace of mind.

dreadnought · Dec 26, 2017

DamianWarS said:
Don't you mean "our Father in his state of peace of mind". Does this allegiance cause you to disrespect a public Christian forum by conflicting their SoF? There is a spot in CF for this kind of dialog... it's not here.

My only allegiance is to our Father in heaven. That would include Jesus Christ, who, I believe, is God in flesh.

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