Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

Buzz_B

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No, claninja has it correct, the future Jerusalem on earth when taken over by the coming Antichrist (or beast king) will be the harlot city of Revelation.

And your analogies are more like mysticism than actual Scripture supported common sense.
That Jerusalem we see in the flesh has long been under the control of the antiChrist.

claninja is wrong. The New Jerusalem will be free of all such corruptors. There is only the fleshly Jerusalem which is now controlled by the antichrist and the spiritual congregation which is in the process of dying to the flesh so that it can become that New Jerusalem. Its flesh which must die is that apostate element.

Edit: Or, I should say, 'The flesh tent in which the present congregation is built, is what fed the growth of the false body of Christ among those who do not let their own flesh really die with Christ in his death at Calvary. And that element yet exists even in those who are not any longer going the way of the antichrist body. Defeating death in the flesh is no easy task. It takes time for us and can only happen by completely disowning ourselves to live fully for the life that is in Christ.
Sin has been like an addiction in that regard. And just as we see most drug addicts failing at recovery and may excuses being made for them, so also many excuses have been invented to make those who are failing to fully grasp onto God's help and put to death the flesh which brings death seem innocent. It is the antichrist who makes those excuses for them.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Who is the woman on the beast in Revelation 17-18?
_______________________________________________________________
The woman is the great city
Revelation 17:18
And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

A.)the great city is Jerusalem
Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.

B.) Peter states that the church in Jerusalem, is in Babylon.
1 Peter 5:13
She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.
________________________________________________________________
Punishment for the woman in Revelation 17-18

A.)God uses the beast and 10 horns to desolate the woman, who is unfaithful Jerusalem.
Revelation 17:16-17
And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
________________________________________________________________________
Why was the woman punished?

A.) she killed the saint of Jesus
Revelation 17:6
could see that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and of the witnesses for Jesus. And I was greatly astonished at the sight of her.

B.) She killed the prophets and saints
Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.

C.) Her sins were piled to heaven
Revelation 18:5
For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

D.) She had been immoral with other nations
Revelation 18:3
All the nations have drunkc the wine of the passion of her immorality.
The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy through the extravagance of her luxury.”
_________________________________________________________________________

When did her punishment occur?

When Jesus said it would, on the generation of his audience:

matthew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.
_________________________________________________________________________

The woman was unfaithful Jerusalem (israel), who was made desolate by the roman armies because of all the righteous blood it had spilled.
Books - Page 1 - KennethGentry.com

Dr. Kenneth Gentry makes the strongest argument for that position of which I'm aware
 
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John Prewett

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The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ.
The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities,
but rather Papist activities. People need to know this

Though many modern Christians are oblivious to (or pretend to be) the following fulfillment,
many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries. It was a main battle-cry of the
Reformation era Protestants
and was common knowledge in Protestant circles
until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].

One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince. Prophecy fulfillment is EVIDENCE.
Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.

Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1

Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment
of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great harlot Mother is highly significant,
precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus

Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions,
and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.

From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF

Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.

Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.

Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations
came out of her. The denominations share her perversion.

Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people,
carried out openly over centuries. Inspired and directed by men who claim to be
the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.

Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.

NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.
For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ... just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]
Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great harlot
is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.

Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.

Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy, then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.

Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.

[they will also come out of the denominations] This is happening now, and has happened before.

Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the great harlot.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.

The Revelation says there is a great harlot in the city of 7 hills. Lo and behold, there is.

Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.
This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.

"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]

Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing. Being in denial is not.
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

SLINGING SEEDS

State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia
 
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Antig

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The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ.
The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities,
but rather Papist activities. People need to know this

Though many modern Christians are oblivious to (or pretend to be) the following fulfillment,
many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries. It was a main battle-cry of the
Reformation era Protestants
and was common knowledge in Protestant circles
until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].

One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince. Prophecy fulfillment is EVIDENCE.
Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.

Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1

Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment
of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great harlot Mother is highly significant,
precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus

Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions,
and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.

From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF

Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.

Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.

Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations
came out of her. The denominations share her perversion.

Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people,
carried out openly over centuries. Inspired and directed by men who claim to be
the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.

Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.

NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.
For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ... just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]
Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great harlot
is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.

Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.

Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy, then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.

Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.

[they will also come out of the denominations] This is happening now, and has happened before.

Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the great harlot.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.

The Revelation says there is a great harlot in the city of 7 hills. Lo and behold, there is.

Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.
This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.

"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]

Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing. Being in denial is not.
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

SLINGING SEEDS

State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Very much wrong in all aspects.
 
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iamlamad

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Preview of future events as per scripture:
The Beast of Rev. 13, or the man of sin of 2 Thes. 2, will enter the future temple in Jerusalem. We see him and his Gentile armies arriving in Jerusalem in Rev. 11:1-2.
At the exact midpoint of the 70th week, he will enter the most holy place in the temple and will proclaim to all that HE IS JEHOVAH GOD and people must worship him.

He will remain in Jerusalem, and in the temple, just as God would, and erect an image, probably of himself. He will force all to worship this image or lose their head. He will establish a mark and force all to receive this mark - or lose their head.

Along with the false prophet doing false miracles, these two will deceive the entire world - all except those whose names are written in heaven. So picture this: entire world deceived, and this deception coming from the city of Jerusalem. This will be the worst or greatest deception ever to be presented to the world. And the world will fall for it. This means Buddihsts will fall for it, Muslims will fall for it. They will all take the mark, believing in a lie. And this great lie is coming from Jerusalem.

Make no mistake: Jerusalem is intended when John wrote "Mystery Babylon."
 
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Buzz_B

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Preview of future events as per scripture:
The Beast of Rev. 13, or the man of sin of 2 Thes. 2, will enter the future temple in Jerusalem. We see him and his Gentile armies arriving in Jerusalem in Rev. 11:1-2.
At the exact midpoint of the 70th week, he will enter the most holy place in the temple and will proclaim to all that HE IS JEHOVAH GOD and people must worship him.

He will remain in Jerusalem, and in the temple, just as God would, and erect an image, probably of himself. He will force all to worship this image or lose their head. He will establish a mark and force all to receive this mark - or lose their head.

Along with the false prophet doing false miracles, these two will deceive the entire world - all except those whose names are written in heaven. So picture this: entire world deceived, and this deception coming from the city of Jerusalem. This will be the worst or greatest deception ever to be presented to the world. And the world will fall for it. This means Buddihsts will fall for it, Muslims will fall for it. They will all take the mark, believing in a lie. And this great lie is coming from Jerusalem.

Make no mistake: Jerusalem is intended when John wrote "Mystery Babylon."
It is true that the Jerusalem over there in the middle east is yet involved in prophecy. Just not in the way your Harry Potter fairytale describes.

I just saw on the news today that Trump is convincing other nations to move their embassies to Jerusalem along with the USA. What is being mounted for is the destruction of the real Babylon the Great who has led many to see that Jerusalem as God's holy city. And that city may well be destroyed but that yet does not make that city by herself who you say although she is a part of Babylon the Great just as are all religions who push false doctrine.

I figure that when that Jerusalem is destroyed it is then that this this earth disbelieves in religion all together. They having heard that Jerusalem touted by Christians for so long as something special to God. And so the overwhelming majority of mankind will then see all religion as false and turn on it to destroy it, justifying it as having been the cause of most our evils of war.

It will be after destroying religion that they become able to find the true believers whom they were powerless to disperse and end their worship of God. True worshipers have been sort of hidden like the woman portrayed at Revelation 12 given a place in the wilderness away from the face of the dragon. But once false religion is gone they will no longer be hidden. It is then that the human forces who have given their allegiance to the dragon's armies will be led to strike at God's true people. And when they do it will be just as it is spoken of in Zechariah. So listen and heed:

Zechariah 2:7 ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’
8 For thus says Yahweh of Armies: ‘For honor he has sent me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye. (WEB)
 
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Douggg

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The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ.
The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities,
but rather Papist activities. People need to know this

Though many modern Christians are oblivious to (or pretend to be) the following fulfillment,
many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries. It was a main battle-cry of the
Reformation era Protestants
and was common knowledge in Protestant circles
until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].

One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince. Prophecy fulfillment is EVIDENCE.
Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.

Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1

Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment
of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great harlot Mother is highly significant,
precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus

Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions,
and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.

From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF

Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.

Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.

Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations
came out of her. The denominations share her perversion.

Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people,
carried out openly over centuries. Inspired and directed by men who claim to be
the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.

Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.

NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.
For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ... just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]
Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great harlot
is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.

Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.

Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy, then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.

Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.

[they will also come out of the denominations] This is happening now, and has happened before.

Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the great harlot.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.

The Revelation says there is a great harlot in the city of 7 hills. Lo and behold, there is.

Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.
This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.

"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]

Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing. Being in denial is not.
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

SLINGING SEEDS

State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia
Hi John, I became a Christian about the same time you did.

Okay, I agree with a just about everything of what you wrote concerning the Vatican, Pope issue. But I would not say the woman herself is Babylon the Great, just as I would not say that persons who will be having the 666 on their foreheads are themselves the beast.

Babylon the Great in my opinion is the mystical Kingdom of Satan. And it's influence in the affairs of men. Guilty of the deaths of all the prophets and apostles since the beginning of time.

Revelation 18:
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It is talking about the end of Satan's kingdom.
 
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Douggg

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I figure that when that Jerusalem is destroyed it is then that this this earth disbelieves in religion all together. They having heard that Jerusalem touted by Christians for so long as something special to God.
Hi Buzz, what is your explanation of Zechariah 14 ?
 
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iamlamad

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It is true that the Jerusalem over there in the middle east is yet involved in prophecy. Just not in the way your Harry Potter fairytale describes.

I just saw on the news today that Trump is convincing other nations to move their embassies to Jerusalem along with the USA. What is being mounted for is the destruction of the real Babylon the Great who has led many to see that Jerusalem as God's holy city. And that city may well be destroyed but that yet does not make that city by herself who you say although she is a part of Babylon the Great just as are all religions who push false doctrine.

I figure that when that Jerusalem is destroyed it is then that this this earth disbelieves in religion all together. They having heard that Jerusalem touted by Christians for so long as something special to God. And so the overwhelming majority of mankind will then see all religion as false and turn on it to destroy it, justifying it as having been the cause of most our evils of war.

It will be after destroying religion that they become able to find the true believers whom they were powerless to disperse and end their worship of God. True worshipers have been sort of hidden like the woman portrayed at Revelation 12 given a place in the wilderness away from the face of the dragon. But once false religion is gone they will no longer be hidden. It is then that the human forces who have given their allegiance to the dragon's armies will be led to strike at God's true people. And when they do it will be just as it is spoken of in Zechariah. So listen and heed:

Zechariah 2:7 ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’
8 For thus says Yahweh of Armies: ‘For honor he has sent me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye. (WEB)
I disagree, Buzz. There was the original "Babylon" which was the tower of Babble incident. Then later the empire of Babylon came along. And it persecuted Israel.
Then God called Israel "Babylon" because she kept going after false Gods.

But in Revelation, we find for the first time, "Mystery Babylon."

What did God mean by "the mother of harlots?" I suggest the meaning as the biggest, the greatest, etc. And when Jesus tells us that the days of GT coming will be greater than anything ever before or after, the reason is that the killing machine put together by the Beast and False Prophet will be the baddest ever to come on planet earth. The bible tells us that the deception will be at a greater level than every before. And all this will take place in Jerusalem Israel. And every last human on earth except those whose names are written in heaven will fall for this deception. Islam cannot come close to these numbers. Neither can Buddhism or any other religion of today. This is why I disagree with you.
 
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Davy

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That Jerusalem we see in the flesh has long been under the control of the antiChrist.

claninja is wrong. The New Jerusalem will be free of all such corruptors. There is only the fleshly Jerusalem which is now controlled by the antichrist and the spiritual congregation which is in the process of dying to the flesh so that it can become that New Jerusalem. Its flesh which must die is that apostate element.

Edit: Or, I should say, 'The flesh tent in which the present congregation is built, is what fed the growth of the false body of Christ among those who do not let their own flesh really die with Christ in his death at Calvary. And that element yet exists even in those who are not any longer going the way of the antichrist body. Defeating death in the flesh is no easy task. It takes time for us and can only happen by completely disowning ourselves to live fully for the life that is in Christ.
Sin has been like an addiction in that regard. And just as we see most drug addicts failing at recovery and may excuses being made for them, so also many excuses have been invented to make those who are failing to fully grasp onto God's help and put to death the flesh which brings death seem innocent. It is the antichrist who makes those excuses for them.

Again, just more words without Scripture support.

Revelation is pointing to Jerusalem on earth as the Babylon harlot "great city". Jerusalem is where Jesus condemned the evil scribes and Pharisees for the blood of the prophets (Matt.23; Rev.18:24). Jerusalem is where Rev.11 shows the beast will ascend and kill God's two witnesses. Jerusalem is where Jesus showed the "abomination of desolation" will be setup for the end (Matt.24; Mark 13). Jerusalem is where Apostle Paul showed the "son of perdition" (the Antichrist) will come to sit in another temple and proclaim himself as God.
 
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claninja

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You have not missed the fact that the Bible book of Revelation was written long after her destruction in around 96 CE in Asia Minor? She was destroyed about 70 CE.

This is a highly debated topic, one that probably needs its own forum

1.) No destruction of the temple is mentioned in Revelation. This would have been huge to the Jews and vindication of the words of Jesus Christ temple destruction prophecy. If Revelation was written after the destruction of the temple, it is likely this would have been included.

2.) There is a window of a few years when there were only 7 churches in Asia. In 60/61 AD, Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossea were destroyed in an earthquake. Only Laodicea was rebuilt in 1-2 years without the assistance of Rome (Laodicea was very wealthy). If Revelation was written in 95-96AD, there would have been 9 churches, as Colossea and Hierapolis would have been rebuilt by this time.

3.) In the early second century, Tertullian wrote that John was exiled to patmos under Nero, the same time Paul and Peter were martyred.

4.) the Aramaic Peshitta begins revelation with "The revelation which God gave the evanglist John on the island of Patmos where he had been banned by Nero Caesar."

_______________________________________________________________

The future date mainly comes from Irenaeus, who dates John having received the vision around the time of domination.

Irenaeus also wrote that Jesus lived to be an old man; so I take his writing with a grain of salt:

On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify
 
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iamlamad

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Again, just more words without Scripture support.

Revelation is pointing to Jerusalem on earth as the Babylon harlot "great city". Jerusalem is where Jesus condemned the evil scribes and Pharisees for the blood of the prophets (Matt.23; Rev.18:24). Jerusalem is where Rev.11 shows the beast will ascend and kill God's two witnesses. Jerusalem is where Jesus showed the "abomination of desolation" will be setup for the end (Matt.24; Mark 13). Jerusalem is where Apostle Paul showed the "son of perdition" (the Antichrist) will come to sit in another temple and proclaim himself as God.
All good points!
 
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Douggg

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What did God mean by "the mother of harlots?" I suggest the meaning as the biggest, the greatest, etc.

What do you think about the mother being the woman personifying "wickedness" in Zecharaiah 5 ?
 
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iamlamad

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What do you think about the mother being the woman personifying "wickedness" in Zecharaiah 5 ?
I don't know what the vision Zech. saw meant.

What we do know about this Mystery Babylon is that she is exercising some control over the Beast. In this picture of the beast, it represents the kingdom, not the man.

Of course Jerusalem will exercise authority over the entire world, because the Beast will reside there and God has given him authority over all the world.
 
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Davy

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Babylon the Great in my opinion is the mystical Kingdom of Satan. And it's influence in the affairs of men. Guilty of the deaths of all the prophets and apostles since the beginning of time.

Revelation 18:
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It is talking about the end of Satan's kingdom.

It is that also, i.e., Satan's mystical kingdom. But in Rev.17-18, the harlot is Jerusalem, which is an old metaphor God used in the OT for Jerusalem in a state of false worship.

Ezek 16:15
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
KJV


God in Ezek.16 also uses the concept of a harlot to describe Jerusalem in false worship with pagan idols.

That's where those Rev.17-18 metaphors about the Babylon harlot originate. This is why in Rev.11 Jerusalem in that time of the 2nd Woe is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt.
 
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Douggg

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It is that also, i.e., Satan's mystical kingdom. But in Rev.17-18, the harlot is Jerusalem, which is an old metaphor God used in the OT for Jerusalem in a state of false worship.
But that is when Israel got into worshipping other gods. For which they went into the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Later, in the four gospels, Jesus never accused anyone of that generation of worshiping idols, I don' think.

One of the difficulties in naming Jerusalem the harlot of Revelation 17 is in Zecharaiah 14, God comes to the defense of Jerusalem from the nations gathered against her.
 
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Servant232

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The Great City is Three - Parts

1) The RCC is the Mother of Harlots - Religious

2) The USA is the Daughter of Babylon - Political

3) The City of London - Financial

Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before ELOHIYM, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

She is Tri-Part entity before being destroyed...

Each of these three cities are Independent City-States.

obelisks.jpg

The obelisk which is pictured at these three locations are monuments to baal, lucifer, satan, the dragon

The Destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem on

8/4/70 until The Greatest Recorded Earthquakes: Here Is Wisdom

8/4/70 until The Largest Recorded Solar Flares: Here Is Wisdom

8/4/70 until "The Roadmap for Peace" Speech.

8/4/70 until 6/24/2002 = 705,609 days

705609/31102 - Remainder ~ 21365

21365| Eze 36:5 Therefore thus saith Adonai YHWH; Surely in the Fire of My jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the nations, and against all Idumea, which have appointed My Land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

~~~~~~~

Tisha B'Av

8/4/70 until 12/27/2017 = 711,274 days

27030| Act 4:7 <<<


Here Is Wisdom


~~~~~


Strengthening the plan that began in a speech in 2002, The pope in his yearly christdeath message on 12/25/17 called for a two-state solution to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

usa-9.jpg

usa usa usa Jeremiah 51:25

8/4/70 until the Six Day War that began on June 5 1967, wherein Judah retook their rightful possession of East Jerusalem, with a Big Helping Hand.

692,806 days

1) 8562| 2Sa 20:7 And there went out after him Joab's (YHWH is Father) men, and the Cherethites ("executioners"), and the Pelethites ("couriers"), and all the mighty men: and they went out of
Jerusalem, to pursue after Sheba ( "seven") the son of Bichri ( "youthful").

2) 8563| 2Sa 20:8 When they were at the great stone which is in Gibeon, Amasa ("burden") went before them. And Joab's garment that he had put on was girded unto him, and upon it a girdle with a sword fastened upon his loins in the sheath thereof; and as he went forth it fell out.

3) 8564| 2Sa 20:9 And Joab said to Amasa, Art thou in health, my brother? And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand to kiss him.

4) 8565| 2Sa 20:10 But Amasa took no heed to the sword that was in Joab's hand: so he smote him therewith in the fifth rib, and shed out his bowels to the ground, and struck him not again; and he died. So Joab and Abishai his brother pursued after Sheba the son of Bichri.

5) 8566| 2Sa 20:11 And one of Joab's men stood by him, and said, He that favoureth Joab, and he that is for David ("Beloved"), let him go after Joab.

6) 8567| 2Sa 20:12 And Amasa
wallowed in blood in the midst of the highway. And when the man saw that all the people stood still, he removed Amasa out of the highway into the field, and cast a cloth upon him, when he saw that every one that came by him stood still.
 
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Davy

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But that is when Israel got into worshipping other gods. For which they went into the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Later, in the four gospels, Jesus never accused anyone of that generation of worshiping idols, I don' think.

Yeah, it was because Jerusalem fell big time into pagan idol worship. Jerusalem has been taken something like 27 times in its history. One time its name was even changed to represent idol worship. There is one final time Jerusalem is to be under siege and an abomination idol placed there; Apostle Paul warned about it in 2 Thess.2.

Our Lord Jesus did link the scribes and Pharisees who wanted to kill Him with the OT workers of iniquity that killed the prophets (Matt.23). Many miss it, but per 1 Chronicles 2:55, the scribes were the Kenites of the land of Canaan. They weren't of Israelite birth, which was a requirement for those duties. Likewise per Josephus, there were foreigners that crept into the priesthood, which also God had forbidden under the old covenant (see Ezra 2). God's Word when studied more in-depth points to the unawares crept in mentioned in the Book of Jude. And God actually foretold of this back in Judges 2 & 3, which can also be traced to 1 Kings 9, then Ezra 2 & 9, and Nehemiah. By the time Jesus was born, the children of darkness had already crept into the scribes and priest's positions.

One of the difficulties in naming Jerusalem the harlot of Revelation 17 is in Zecharaiah 14, God comes to the defense of Jerusalem from the nations gathered against her.

Yes, but what happens when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives? A great valley is formed there. The whole earth is going shake too, the great earthquake in Jerusalem is going to flatten this 3rd temple today's Jews are getting ready to build in Jerusalem for the coming false messiah to sit in; and 7,000 there will be killed, representing Satan's workers there in Jerusalem. Afterall, Jerusalem on earth is where GOD said He chose to dwell forever.

In Isaiah 10, God uses an analogy for "the Assyrian", calling him "the rod of Mine anger" like a punishing rod. God uses the title of "the Assyrian" at times to point to Satan (especially in Ezek.31 and Isaiah 30:31-33). Thus Satan is only allowed to do what God lets him do, and one of Satan's duties God's gives him is as a punishing rod upon the rebellious. He will allow it upon the rebellious of His chosen people also.

No less important is the future role God has given to Satan of coming to earth to play Messiah and fool the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem, and the whole world. This is the main event for the end of this world, and everyone alive on the whole earth will be subjected to false worship Satan will cause over the whole earth. So our Heavenly Father is not just picking on Jerusalem. He is going to tremble this whole earth and all of man's works here will be destroyed (Heb.12; 2 Pet.3:10).
 
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Buzz_B

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Again, just more words without Scripture support.

Revelation is pointing to Jerusalem on earth as the Babylon harlot "great city". Jerusalem is where Jesus condemned the evil scribes and Pharisees for the blood of the prophets (Matt.23; Rev.18:24). Jerusalem is where Rev.11 shows the beast will ascend and kill God's two witnesses. Jerusalem is where Jesus showed the "abomination of desolation" will be setup for the end (Matt.24; Mark 13). Jerusalem is where Apostle Paul showed the "son of perdition" (the Antichrist) will come to sit in another temple and proclaim himself as God.
I reject that idea because it plainly calls the temple, "the temple of God", at 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and a rebuilt temple in the flesh Jerusalem would not be a temple of God, even if some claimed that it was.

No, the temple is God's congregation in which the antichirist rose to enough power to take it over here in the flesh.

I was only speculating as to what i think might happen with regard to the Jerusalem we see in the middle east. If I had meant it as a prophesying I would not have said, "I figure that when that Jerusalem is destroyed it is then that ..." When I say "I figure" I mean I am only speculating. Back when I was forewarned of the 911 event I told the group I was with about my two dreams and afterward told them all I could tell them was that I was being told to brace for a world shaking event that would occur primarily in the United States. I knew that buildings were struck and collapsed but I did not know which buildings they would be. I knew it would lead to wars. But I spoke only what I knew from the dreams God had given me. 911 occurred a few weeks after that.

Then in about 2009 or early 2010 I was given knowledge which I published in posts on another Bible Discussion forum, that Syria would be devastated and that many people would flow out of her to other lands. This was in response to many claiming the end was then. The spirit uttered to me that it would not happen before the decimation of Syria and many people coming out of her. I also gave the date 2017 as a year we would see things step up. But I did not go beyond what the spirit uttered to me. So I am sorry I speculated now. I don't really like to speculate that way.

The thing I like to do is stick to properly translating the Greek language and let the Bible tell me what is to be. And I know that cannot be done unless one properly and consistently uses the Greek grammar and Greek perspectives in relation to Greek words. And I have educated myself well enough in the languages to know for a certainty that most of you do not do that.

One thing I am certain of, and that is the flesh Jerusalem of our middle eastern block of nations is being used to distract you.
 
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