LDS What the Mormon missionaries taught me...

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In 1973 after my husband and I were married, the Mormon church discontinued these lessons(i. e. discussions) that my husband and I had been taught.

FIRST DISCUSSION
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST

I. OUTLINE
__A. Create need for prophet
__B. Joseph Smith story
____1. Nature of Godhead
____2. Importance of Joseph Smith
__C. Apostasy
____1. Set up church (Eph. 2:19-20)
____2. Collapse church on flannel board
____3. Compare churches
__D. Baptismal date
__E. Restoration
____1. Divine messengers (Matt. 17:11-13)
____2. Total Restoration
__F. Secure commitments
____1. Baptism
____2. Study, pray, attend church

II. BASIC CONCLUSIONS*
__1. We need a prophet today.
__2. The Father and Son have bodies.
__3. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.
__4. The Church must be the same today as it was at the time of the Savior.
__5. Apostles and prophets are necessary in the Church today.
__6. The priesthood is necessary to act for God.
__7. There is no priesthood today without apostles.
__8. I agree the Church must be like this today.
__9. There was a complete apostasy and my church is false.
_10. I will be baptized as I come to believe the restoration.
_11. There was a restoration of the priesthood and the true Church.
_12. I will study, pray, and attend church to meet a specific baptismal date.
______
* Conclusions given in bold face at end of each section.
...

Note: I had no church at the time.
 
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What the Mormon missionaries taught me...

FIRST DISCUSSION
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST
__D. Baptismal date
__F. Secure commitments
____1. Baptism
____2. Study, pray, attend church


II. BASIC CONCLUSIONS
_10. I will be baptized as I come to believe the restoration.
_12. I will study, pray, and attend church to meet a specific baptismal date.


The very first lesson was when the pressure to be baptized began. All I knew about the organization prior to this was what I had read in the Encyclopedia Britannica and
What of the Mormons?: A Brief Study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a 1947 book by Gordon B. Hinckley that was published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
 
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fatboys

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What the Mormon missionaries taught me...

FIRST DISCUSSION
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST
__D. Baptismal date
__F. Secure commitments
____1. Baptism
____2. Study, pray, attend church


II. BASIC CONCLUSIONS
_10. I will be baptized as I come to believe the restoration.
_12. I will study, pray, and attend church to meet a specific baptismal date.


The very first lesson was when the pressure to be baptized began. All I knew about the organization prior to this was what I had read in the Encyclopedia Britannica and
What of the Mormons?: A Brief Study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a 1947 book by Gordon B. Hinckley that was published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
So what. Are you saying you buckled into pressure?
 
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Peter1000

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Throughout the Six Discussions, the interested non-member is never told that temple marriage is a commandment. People are baptized without that knowledge.
I was a missionary in Arizona in 1973. We would have never given a first discussion like that. Even if you were begging us to baptize you, we were still instructed to go through the 6 discussions. That is my experience as a missionary.

The non-member is not told that temple marriage is a commandment because it is not a commandment. It is a blessing that you can obtain only if you wish to. It is highly recommended and talked about a lot, but your bishop cannot look you in the eye and tell you that you must, by commandment, go with you husband to the temple and get married.

In a sense, it is commanded if you want that blessing, but you are not forced to go to the temple and be married for time and all eternity. That is why 60% of married people in the church are not married in the temple. It requries a committment to your marriage and Jesus Christ that some are not willing to abide by.
 
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Peter1000

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What the Mormon missionaries taught me...

FIRST DISCUSSION
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST
__D. Baptismal date
__F. Secure commitments
____1. Baptism
____2. Study, pray, attend church


II. BASIC CONCLUSIONS
_10. I will be baptized as I come to believe the restoration.
_12. I will study, pray, and attend church to meet a specific baptismal date.


The very first lesson was when the pressure to be baptized began. All I knew about the organization prior to this was what I had read in the Encyclopedia Britannica and
What of the Mormons?: A Brief Study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a 1947 book by Gordon B. Hinckley that was published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
This very, very, abnormal. Your entire Mormon experience is very, very abnormal. Sorry this happened to you.
 
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Rescued One

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This very, very, abnormal. Your entire Mormon experience is very, very abnormal. Sorry this happened to you.

It was NOT abnormal. The manual was printed by your church for Mormon missionaries. My entire Mormon experience was not abnormal. [Staff edit].

I was a missionary in Arizona in 1973. We would have never given a first discussion like that. Even if you were begging us to baptize you, we were still instructed to go through the 6 discussions. That is my experience as a missionary.

And the Mormon missionaries gave me all six lessons in two weeks.
I had all six discussions! That doesn't make the first discussion less true!

The non-member is not told that temple marriage is a commandment because it is not a commandment.

Learn your religion!

"Adam and Eve were married by God before there was any death in the world. They had an eternal marriage. They taught the law of eternal marriage to their children and their children’s children. As the years passed, wickedness entered the hearts of the people and the authority to perform this sacred ordinance was taken from the earth. Through the Restoration of the gospel, eternal marriage has been restored to earth."
Chapter 38: Eternal Marriage

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Enrichment G, p. 395.gif

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G, p. 395


“If the family unit continues, then by virtue of that fact the members of the family have gained eternal life(exaltation), the greatest of all the gifts of God, for by definition exaltation consists in the continuation of the family unit in eternity. Those so inheriting are the sons and daughters of God, the members of his family, those who have made their callings and elections sure. They are joint-heirs with Christ to all that the Father hath, and they receive the fulness of the glory of the Father, becoming gods in their own right. (D&C 132; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 58–99.)” (Mormon Doctrine, 117)...

Heavenly Father has given us the law of eternal marriage so we can become like Him.
Marriage for Eternity

ONLY THROUGH CELESTIAL MARRIAGE CAN A PERSON BECOME LIKE GOD

The Lord Commands Marriage

"Many people imagine that there is something sinful in marriage; there is an apostate tradition to that effect. This is a false and a very harmful idea. On the contrary, God not only commands but he commends marriage.
While man was yet immortal, before sin had entered the world, our Heavenly Father himself performed the first marriage. He united our first parents in the bonds of matrimony, and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. This command he has never changed, abrogated or annulled; but it has continued in force throughout all the generations of mankind."
(Joseph F. Smith, Juvenile Instructor, 1 July 1902, p. 400)
Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, copyright 1976, 1992, p. 175



It is a blessing that you can obtain only if you wish to. It is highly recommended and talked about a lot, but your bishop cannot look you in the eye and tell you that you must, by commandment, go with you husband to the temple and get married.

It is a commandment and a law.


In a sense, it is commanded if you want that blessing, but you are not forced to go to the temple and be married for time and all eternity. That is why 60% of married people in the church are not married in the temple.

Are you saying that Mormons are forced to keep some of the commandments? I wasn't forced to keep them.
60% of married people in the church have different reasons to not go to the temple. The Word of Wisdom became a commandment even though the D&C says it isn't a commandment. Do all those 60% keep the WOW? I doubt it. Can they all pass all the interview questions? Do they all pay a full tithe? Do they all want to wear the temple garments?

It requries a committment to your marriage and Jesus Christ that some are not willing to abide by.

It is a commandment and a law. Read D&C 132!

Doctrine and Covenants 132
3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power(and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead....

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved[resurrected] condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
  1. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the [Mormon]Gospel.
 
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Rescued One

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Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

  • God gives eternal life to the obedient, Moses 5:11.
  • OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE.
But to be exalted one must keep the whole law ... to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.
---Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith, 2:6

As used in the scriptures, eternal life is the name given to the kind of life that our Eternal Father lives.....Accordingly, eternal life is not a name that has reference only to the unending duration of a future life; immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But only those who obey the fulness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life.
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 237

Those missionaries never told me the requirements for eternal life. No one told my sister. She was such a Martha, I don't think she ever found out.
 
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Peter1000

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Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

  • God gives eternal life to the obedient, Moses 5:11.
  • OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE.
But to be exalted one must keep the whole law ... to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.
---Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith, 2:6

As used in the scriptures, eternal life is the name given to the kind of life that our Eternal Father lives.....Accordingly, eternal life is not a name that has reference only to the unending duration of a future life; immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But only those who obey the fulness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life.
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 237

Those missionaries never told me the requirements for eternal life. No one told my sister. She was such a Martha, I don't think she ever found out.
As far as I know even today, you do not know what is the path to eternal life? The bible is very confusing about the very subject that it should be a shining beacon about. A brilliant light illuminating the path that one must take to have eternal life.

But if I study the bible, I can come up with 20 different paths that are taught by our churches, all claiming they are the truth and they teach the true way to eternal life, but bring out 20 different ways to get there.

I suggest there is 1 way and 1 way only. You must find this 1 path to have eternal life. Jesus created the path, and has given us plenty of information to keep on the path.

Tell me if you can, what that path is??????????
 
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Rescued One

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As far as I know even today, you do not know what is the path to eternal life? The bible is very confusing about the very subject that it should be a shining beacon about. A brilliant light illuminating the path that one must take to have eternal life.

The Bible is clear to those who have eyes to see. I am not confused.

But if I study the bible, I can come up with 20 different paths that are taught by our churches, all claiming they are the truth and they teach the true way to eternal life, but bring out 20 different ways to get there.

Joseph Smith taught his followers that the Bible is an insufficient guide. You've embraced that teaching. And you are not the Holy Spirit. The Holy spirit teaches truth.

I suggest there is 1 way and 1 way only. You must find this 1 path to have eternal life. Jesus created the path, and has given us plenty of information to keep on the path.

Ye must be born again. Without the new birth you won't follow the Shepherd. Jesus didn't create Himself. He is the way!

Tell me if you can, what that path is??????????

I have told you and told you and told you, but you don't believe.

John 10
22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
 
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fatboys

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The Bible is clear to those who have eyes to see. I am not confused.



Joseph Smith taught his followers that the Bible is an insufficient guide. You've embraced that teaching. And you are not the Holy Spirit. The Holy spirit teaches truth.



Ye must be born again. Without the new birth you won't follow the Shepherd. Jesus didn't create Himself. He is the way!



I have told you and told you and told you, but you don't believe.

John 10
22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
The Bible is incomplete not insufficient. All of God’s words are important not hand picked and translated by uninspired man.
 
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Rescued One

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The Bible is complete and the Holy Spirit is the best Guide! Hallelujah! :clap:

John 17
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
:amen:
 
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Mormons are commanded to keep secrets:

Doctrine and Covenants 19
21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.
22 For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish.

................................................................................................................
D&C 65
2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.

D&C 42
69 Lift up your hearts and rejoice, for unto you the kingdom, or in other words, the keys of the church have been given. Even so. Amen.

D&C 90
3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this kingdom shall never be taken from you, while thou art in the world, neither in the world to come;

Some have asked, “Is your claim of authority more valid than that of other churches?” Our answer is, “Yes. We possess the same divine priesthood power and authority that was held anciently.”
David B. Haight, “The Keys of the Kingdom,” General Conference, October 1980

D&C 81
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you my servant Frederick G. Williams: Listen to the voice of him who speaketh, to the word of the Lord your God, and hearken to the calling wherewith you are called, even to be a high priest in my church, and a counselor unto my servant Joseph Smith, Jun.;
2 Unto whom I have given the keys of the kingdom, which belong always unto the Presidency of the High Priesthood:

What are the keys of the priesthood?
Priesthood keys are the authority Heavenly Father has given to priesthood leaders to direct the use of His priesthood on earth. Jesus Christ holds all priesthood keys. “The keys of this dispensation,” which are necessary to lead the Church, were conferred on the Prophet Joseph Smith (see D&C 110:16). Today the members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles hold those keys. Priesthood keys are also given to the Presidency of the Seventy; presidents of temples, missions, stakes, and districts; bishops; branch presidents; and quorum presidents—including Aaronic Priesthood quorum presidents.
What are the keys of the priesthood?

D&C 112
20 Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent, whom I have made counselors for my name’s sake unto you.

See my next post.
 
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Doctrine and Covenants 84

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

What of the non-Mormons who won't even talk to the missionaries at their door? They haven't received Christ?
 
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Ironhold

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Mormons are commanded to keep secrets:

Doctrine and Covenants 19
21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.
22 For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish.

Did not Jesus himself warn about pearls and swine?
 
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Are new Mormons unworthy of temple recommends?

Are most people unworthy of knowing how to have eternal life?

Can someone be ready to go on a mission without knowing that Mormons are commanded to have temple marriages?
 
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Ironhold

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Are new Mormons unworthy of temple recommends?

People have to wait a year past their baptism date, thereby ensuring that they've had a chance to learn the theology and why the temple is so important.

Are most people unworthy of knowing how to have eternal life?

Can kindergartners fill out a tax return? Or do they need to develop their vocabulary, reasoning abilities, and math skills first?

Can someone be ready to go on a mission without knowing that Mormons are commanded to have temple marriages?

Again, people are IIRC supposed to wait a full year from their baptism date before going on a mission, and for the same reason.
 
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BigDaddy4

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People have to wait a year past their baptism date, thereby ensuring that they've had a chance to learn the theology and why the temple is so important.
Thank God the time has come where the veil is torn and we no longer have to have a temple.

John 4:23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
 
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