How can I avoid becoming despondent in my situation?

Prayers!!!!

In a sense I can relate, though I know I'm often saying how much I love my parish family (and I do). Like you, I'm pretty alone in my demographic. I think there is one other woman in my parish who is similar in age, economic status, and whose spouse isn't Orthodox - Lord have mercy, maybe I should reach out to her?!?!

I sort of got adopted into the senior citizens group, though I suppose I'm really too young according to the stated guidelines, and actually 30 or more years younger than most of them. But might be why in several years I have been asked to one Thanksgiving gathering in someone's home and that is all.

Ah I am sorry. I started this post to say how connected I feel (which I do) but in fact it's 98% due to interactions AT Church. And because I've been "adopted" into a demographic not my own. I do tend to get involved as much as I can though, and we have a weekly Bible study and a monthly senior luncheon.

Can you get involved with a different demographic? I've found seniors so welcoming, and even though some are/were wealthy and I'm not (Greeks tend to mostly do well!) they mostly have to be cautious in having to provide for the rest of their lives and medical needs. I don't feel like such a fish out of water as I do with the professionals my age who tend to be very well off.

Or be helpful to the younger ones with young children? They so often need a hand. Though they are probably less likely to be aware of needing to invite. But if you offer to help with the children they may get into that habit?

Or can you start some ministry or group or plan some event(s) you would enjoy and then build something regular from that?

I don't get nearly enough opportunity to discuss spiritual things with those in my parish as I would like. There are varying degrees of interest, but basically I find those who have been Orthodox all their lives don't have a need to talk about it, while I do. I think that may be somewhat universal, since I find it when I travel too. Visiting a parish of mostly converts tends to be much more stimulating!

And while I too enjoy the fellowship of my Orthodox family, that doesn't mean at all that we have to cut ourselves off from our Protestant friends. As long as it isn't presenting some kind of spiritual difficulty for you (I get weary if it's the kind of thing where everyone thinks they need to pray for my conversion!) ... but in the right atmosphere it can be a blessing, and you can also share a little light just by being as Orthodoxy teaches us to be with them?

Not sure if any of these sound like they might help. But I am left feeling like I really need to talk to that other lady and see if she happens to feel like you!

God be with you. Prayers!!!

Lord have mercy!

what about furthering education if that can open you up to the more professional crowd? I know there are some good distance or hybrid programs out there.

and I can say here at Seminary, one guy that I became very close to is almost ten years my junior, and one professor I have gotten very close to is more than 30 years my senior.

Thats a tough one Handmaiden. I can see what your saying but I dont have any solutions. Are you friends with the church members outside of church? No immediate family around thats a bummer. Orthodox peoples tend to be insular and are not sure how to deal with the "odd man out" . Maybe a change to a parish with more converts (sounds like you attend an ethnic parish). This is a tough one, a sad one, which I don't have any good advice. My prayers and Merry Christmas, and many blessings to you !

handmaiden64 said:

I'm finding my life as an Orthodox Christian (convert) to be a very lonely existence. I am middle aged, divorced with no children and my extended family does not live nearby. I do have many friends, however, who are Protestant here in town from former churches I have attended.

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There's nothing saying that you cannot still be friends with them, so long as you do not get pulled back into Protestantism. I am the only Orthodox Christian in my circle of friends and family (including my wife). It can get very lonely, but I remember that I am in the right Church.

It comes across to me too in getting to know people that status matters, being financially well off and being well established in one's chosen profession and I can tell in people's interactions with me that someone, such as myself, who just has a job to meet my financial obligations with a modest place to live, doesn't seem to fit in.

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How confident are you that this is occurring? I ask because I was in a similar situation; I grew up in a very modest environment. Only in the past few years have I gotten to a place where I would consider myself "well off" and with a high education. I have found that my perceptions that people looked down at me were nothing more than perceptions. Unless someone has said something to/about you, I would not assume that you do not belong.

Guess I said all of the above to say this. For Thanksgiving it was only my long-time Protestant friends who invited me to spend the day with them and tomorrow for Christmas my Protestant friends have again invited me to join them. No one from my Orthodox church has even asked me if I have any plans, not even my godparents, and it would be my Orthodox family who I really would have wanted to spend Christmas with. To be honest, I'm hurt and alone in my "Orthodox world" and don't know if I should continue to struggle where I am.

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Without knowing the details of the get-togethers, I should not comment. There could be a number of reasons why you may not have been invited. But, I agree with Anastasia here: think about moving out of your demographic and befriending others. We do not have a regular church here in Hanoi, but when we do have the Divine Liturgy, I am definitely the only person in my demographic (in fact, I'm the only only non-Russian). But, the "older" ladies have embraced me and the young men always translate for me.

I don't mean to sound like it's so simple and I will be praying for you. It sounds like a difficult situation.

handmaiden64 said:

I'm finding my life as an Orthodox Christian (convert) to be a very lonely existence. I am middle aged, divorced with no children and my extended family does not live nearby. I do have many friends, however, who are Protestant here in town from former churches I have attended.

I've been a member of an Orthodox parish for a few years now, a parish where most people are upper-middle class, highly educated professionals, which I am not. I am active at church in our women's group and over the past few months we have been busy with various events sponsored by our women's group, all of which I've been apart of. So, it's not like I just attend liturgy on Sunday and immediately leave, not interacting with anyone. I'm usually helping to set up for coffee hour and/or cleaning up after coffee hour. However, as involved as I am at church, I am very lonely, especially for the company of people that I can discuss the faith with. There are unspoken cliques at church that I don't fit into - young married couples with children, professional women who are juggling family and career, people who are retired 65+. Now, I know most everyone and everyone knows me, and they interact with me to a point, but it seems like everyone is so wrapped up in their own cliques that I find it hard to break through. It is hard also to go on social media and see a post of multiple photos of individuals and families from church, along with the priest and his family all at a get-together that you weren't invited to with the caption "I just love my church family". It comes across to me too in getting to know people that status matters, being financially well off and being well established in one's chosen profession and I can tell in people's interactions with me that someone, such as myself, who just has a job to meet my financial obligations with a modest place to live, doesn't seem to fit in.

Guess I said all of the above to say this. For Thanksgiving it was only my long-time Protestant friends who invited me to spend the day with them and tomorrow for Christmas my Protestant friends have again invited me to join them. No one from my Orthodox church has even asked me if I have any plans, not even my godparents, and it would be my Orthodox family who I really would have wanted to spend Christmas with. To be honest, I'm hurt and alone in my "Orthodox world" and don't know if I should continue to struggle where I am.

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I would have a quiet word with your priest about those photographs. It may well be that nobody has noticed that you are being excluded, in which case he may be able to help. Alternatively, it may be that you are being excluded because you are single; I am afraid this is something that happens in every church community. They may not realise that they are doing it, but they are.

In the meantime, go where you are loved, and next time there is some cleaning to be done, remember what happened at Christmas, and unless your name is actually Cinderella, perhaps let someone else take their turn. You have done the right thing in serving your brothers and sisters; they have not done the right thing in then regarding you as the equivalent of the help; a servant who does not have to be invited to any parties.

The priest is the place to start on this one.

handmaiden64 said:

I'm finding my life as an Orthodox Christian (convert) to be a very lonely existence. I am middle aged, divorced with no children and my extended family does not live nearby. I do have many friends, however, who are Protestant here in town from former churches I have attended.

I've been a member of an Orthodox parish for a few years now, a parish where most people are upper-middle class, highly educated professionals, which I am not. I am active at church in our women's group and over the past few months we have been busy with various events sponsored by our women's group, all of which I've been apart of. So, it's not like I just attend liturgy on Sunday and immediately leave, not interacting with anyone. I'm usually helping to set up for coffee hour and/or cleaning up after coffee hour. However, as involved as I am at church, I am very lonely, especially for the company of people that I can discuss the faith with. There are unspoken cliques at church that I don't fit into - young married couples with children, professional women who are juggling family and career, people who are retired 65+. Now, I know most everyone and everyone knows me, and they interact with me to a point, but it seems like everyone is so wrapped up in their own cliques that I find it hard to break through. It is hard also to go on social media and see a post of multiple photos of individuals and families from church, along with the priest and his family all at a get-together that you weren't invited to with the caption "I just love my church family". It comes across to me too in getting to know people that status matters, being financially well off and being well established in one's chosen profession and I can tell in people's interactions with me that someone, such as myself, who just has a job to meet my financial obligations with a modest place to live, doesn't seem to fit in.

Guess I said all of the above to say this. For Thanksgiving it was only my long-time Protestant friends who invited me to spend the day with them and tomorrow for Christmas my Protestant friends have again invited me to join them. No one from my Orthodox church has even asked me if I have any plans, not even my godparents, and it would be my Orthodox family who I really would have wanted to spend Christmas with. To be honest, I'm hurt and alone in my "Orthodox world" and don't know if I should continue to struggle where I am.

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De-cloaking to let you know that I know EXACTLY what you're going through- right down to the social media pictures of get togethers. I have absolutely no good advice- because I'm still muddling through- and my solution has not been a very healthy one. I've gone from being VERY active to being WAY less active. My issue is that I don't really have close Protestant friends either- but I do have a supportive husband. Most of my friends that want to do things with me aren't particularly religious. I'm not a parent (though I'd love to be), I'm not related to the right people, I'm not the right ethnicity, and I don't have an extremely outgoing personality to make up for the rest.

ArmyMatt said:

Lord have mercy!

what about furthering education if that can open you up to the more professional crowd? I know there are some good distance or hybrid programs out there.

and I can say here at Seminary, one guy that I became very close to is almost ten years my junior, and one professor I have gotten very close to is more than 30 years my senior.

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I rarely disagree with you, but this is one area in which I do. A person should not have to increase their education for others to sense their worth. I have a Masters degree and my wife has two Masters. However, we don't fit in with the educated crowd because we associate more with those who have no education. I am just one generation removed from share cropping and although I grew up middle class, I grew up very much connected to that demographic.
Additionally I work with learning disabled youth. They cannot make academic advancements and often feel as though they are second class humans. It is BS.

I have called out at least one PhD in our church on this type of behavior. Academic elitism is sin.

handmaiden64 said:

I'm finding my life as an Orthodox Christian (convert) to be a very lonely existence. I am middle aged, divorced with no children and my extended family does not live nearby. I do have many friends, however, who are Protestant here in town from former churches I have attended.

I've been a member of an Orthodox parish for a few years now, a parish where most people are upper-middle class, highly educated professionals, which I am not. I am active at church in our women's group and over the past few months we have been busy with various events sponsored by our women's group, all of which I've been apart of. So, it's not like I just attend liturgy on Sunday and immediately leave, not interacting with anyone. I'm usually helping to set up for coffee hour and/or cleaning up after coffee hour. However, as involved as I am at church, I am very lonely, especially for the company of people that I can discuss the faith with. There are unspoken cliques at church that I don't fit into - young married couples with children, professional women who are juggling family and career, people who are retired 65+. Now, I know most everyone and everyone knows me, and they interact with me to a point, but it seems like everyone is so wrapped up in their own cliques that I find it hard to break through. It is hard also to go on social media and see a post of multiple photos of individuals and families from church, along with the priest and his family all at a get-together that you weren't invited to with the caption "I just love my church family". It comes across to me too in getting to know people that status matters, being financially well off and being well established in one's chosen profession and I can tell in people's interactions with me that someone, such as myself, who just has a job to meet my financial obligations with a modest place to live, doesn't seem to fit in.

Guess I said all of the above to say this. For Thanksgiving it was only my long-time Protestant friends who invited me to spend the day with them and tomorrow for Christmas my Protestant friends have again invited me to join them. No one from my Orthodox church has even asked me if I have any plans, not even my godparents, and it would be my Orthodox family who I really would have wanted to spend Christmas with. To be honest, I'm hurt and alone in my "Orthodox world" and don't know if I should continue to struggle where I am.

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I too struggle with this. I love the people in my parish, but I've struggled in making deep relationships. I blame several things, some of which are my fault (not saying this is your fault). I don't know what the answer is.

Hermit76 said:

I rarely disagree with you, but this is one area in which I do. A person should not have to increase their education for others to sense their worth. I have a Masters degree and my wife has two Masters. However, we don't fit in with the educated crowd because we associate more with those who have no education. I am just one generation removed from share cropping and although I grew up middle class, I grew up very much connected to that demographic.
Additionally I work with learning disabled youth. They cannot make academic advancements and often feel as though they are second class humans. It is BS.

I have called out at least one PhD in our church on this type of behavior. Academic elitism is sin.

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I never said anyone HAD to, I merely gave a suggestion if it was something she might be willing to consider to open a door. I never once equated anyone's education level to their worth.

ArmyMatt said:

I never said anyone HAD to, I merely gave a suggestion if it was something she might be willing to consider to open a door. I never once equated anyone's education level to their worth.

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Education is not a status booster in Christ's Church. When we get to the place where someone is increasing education to open social doors, we've lost Jesus.

You know- don't know if it will help- but I've been contemplating this since he mentioned it. Let's see if I can recall particulars (I'm likely forgetting some rather important context). Our bishop was here recently and he said that it was perfectly fine to do your thing and be alone- as it were- if people weren't accepting of you and your interests (assuming the interests aren't sinful). I think to an extent he's right. If I let it bother me- then it will. However- the more I'm concentrated on cultivating my prayer life and reading scripture- the less it seems to matter if others at church want to hang out with me (it's when I stumble and am not so concentrated on this that things start getting bad again).

Hermit76 said:

Education is not a status booster in Christ's Church. When we get to the place where someone is increasing education to open social doors, we've lost Jesus.

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as someone who is at a monastery, I am well aware of this. it was merely a suggestion.

Handmaiden, I feel your pain. As a single adult male (who does not currently aspire to a religious vocation), I often find myself excluded from Orthodox social circles. I have had instances where I walked into a room and tried to conversate with others, and they have completely turned there backs to me and ignored me. The sad fact is that there are very few single non-monastic or vocational seeking members within American Orthodoxy.

I second what others have said, talk to your parish priest and relay your concerns to him. It can only help, not hurt. If this does not work, and if there are other Orthodox parishes in your region, start visiting one of the other parishes. Hopefully your old parish notices your absence and reaches out to you, and if they do not, then hopefully you will find a better social situation at the new parish.

Also, not to impugn anyone's character here, but be careful of the intentions of your protestant friends. A certain subset of protestants, from what I have seen, befriend people with the sole intention of leading them to whatever form of the Protestant faith that they follow. If you trust your friends, then pay no mind to my warning.

It's funny how you can feel left out and not part of the crowd. At church I read at least every other week, usually two weeks in a row at least. I teach Sunday school also. I go clear up to Fresno for Vespers and then turn around the next day to go to Divine Liturgy. I'm 42 with 3 kids ages 9, 10, 11, and yet I cannot identify with the other parents! My wife and I are usually sitting with the folks in their 60's and 70's and a few in their late 40's or early 50's. The parents with lots of kids are mostly millennials, and they tend to drive my wife and I bat poop crazy. Me and millennials by and large are a bad mix. So we tend to hang out with older people! But we don't care. There is one couple that is early 50's/late40's and we are buddies with them, they have two girls, but even those girls are teens.

I never feel like I fit in.

My first piece of advice to OP is DO NOT DESPAIR. That is never an option with The Lord. I know you're praying about this, so make sure your prayers are a firm trust that God will pair you up with some great folks or a great person. It might just be a matter of time. Also, maybe this has been asked, but are there other Orthodox parishes around your area? And I know this might sound crazy, but perhaps the Lord wants you to make friends and relationships OUTSIDE the Orthodox Church so you can bring them TO the Orthodox Church? I know I sound like a crackpot, but honestly there are some wonderful non-Orthodox people who just don't know what we're about. Maybe the Lord is wanting you to grow the faith through friendships you make from without, not from within?

Hermit, go with your instincts with Matt. He's incredible. You are correct in what you say about adapting education just to make others happy and fit in. I don't recommend it generally either. I think you're talking past each other. If Matt meant what you are thinking, I'd agree. I think Matt was talking about how HE made friends upping his education. He didn't do it in order to earn people's friendships, but in the process of trying to better himself with knowledge, he made new people with whom he shares a common interest because of the seminary environment. It's like when you decide to go back to college to become a teacher, you meet other people with that same interest and friends are made out of nowhere. His suggestion I think is about all the good things that can come from higher education. I don't think he meant it's a cure-all or something to do to earn the respect of coffee hour folks.

Like I said, having been in this forum a long time now, Matt is about as straight an arrow as you're going to get, firm as granite. I'd always, ALWAYS give him the benefit of the doubt.

But I respect your desire to make sure the OP doesn't think education would increase her value or worth as a person. That would be a load of kaka!

Hermit76 said:

I rarely disagree with you, but this is one area in which I do. A person should not have to increase their education for others to sense their worth. I have a Masters degree and my wife has two Masters. However, we don't fit in with the educated crowd because we associate more with those who have no education. I am just one generation removed from share cropping and although I grew up middle class, I grew up very much connected to that demographic.
Additionally I work with learning disabled youth. They cannot make academic advancements and often feel as though they are second class humans. It is BS.

I have called out at least one PhD in our church on this type of behavior. Academic elitism is sin.

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If I was not married and had no children, I would join a solid monastic community, as a novice, and be led from there. Not saying at all that you should do this though. you gotta do you man.

The most important thing not to forget, and this is directed more at myself than at you: our Faith isn't about being Orthodox. It is about living our Lives to please our Lord. Our Lord is with us and in us, and he is in everyone around us in various ways, whether they be Orthodox or not. Be with whoever you're with, keeping God in your heart and attention, and don't be lonely. The world is never going to be an Orthodox one.

GoingByzantine said:

Also, not to impugn anyone's character here, but be careful of the intentions of your protestant friends. A certain subset of protestants, from what I have seen, befriend people with the sole intention of leading them to whatever form of the Protestant faith that they follow. If you trust your friends, then pay no mind to my warning.

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As an Anglican I have to say your last comment about protestant intentions is very unfortunate. It may be true of some people but none that I know; not a single one.

I would like to think it is possible to be faithful Orthodox without disrespecting other Christians. The OP has friends who love her; that is sufficient to know, particularly when her Orthodox brothers and sisters are showing a distinct lack of love themselves.

My comments to the OP remain: go where you are loved & talk to your priest.

Didn't GoingByzantine say "a certain subset of protestants" and not "all protestants?" I think he went out of his way to be careful in what he said? No disrespect was shown for you to react this way? Plus he even ended the post with a qualification if his concern might not apply? It had a disclaimer.

Also, it seems like the OP was asking Orthodox advice?

Catherineanne said:

As an Anglican I have to say your last comment about protestant intentions is very unfortunate. It may be true of some people but none that I know; not a single one.

I would like to think it is possible to be faithful Orthodox without disrespecting other Christians. The OP has friends who love her; that is sufficient to know, particularly when her Orthodox brothers and sisters are showing a distinct lack of love themselves.

My comments to the OP remain: go where you are loved & talk to your priest.

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