Gods will for healing

Daniel Marsh

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One of the things that has been bothering me about the issue of healing in the church goes back to James 5:13-16 13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

I have never seen an anointing service in which confession of sin was a part of the service nor have I ever seen the elders take responsibility for not having enough faith or for not being righteous enough for the miracle to happen.

I remember a case in scripture where a dead person is thrown into a cave on another dead man's bones and was brought back to life. How much faith does a dead person have?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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As a follower of Jesus Christ, I really hope that one day I can heal people but until God shows and gives me this power, I will remain very weary of anybody who claims they can heal people. Let me share with you what I believe is the case.
First off, if God ever chooses to do a miraculous healing with someone who is terminally ill, it will happen. That I believe 100%. It is God who will heal, not any Christians.

If Christians possessed such healing power, then why is it that none us visit hospitals and heal the sick, the dying, the children with Lukemia etc etc. After all, if we claimed to have healed people because of The Holy Spirit, wouldn't this lead more people to repent and believe in God? The very purpose of our mission. The great commission.
You see they don't visit because they don't posses healing powers. If you try and use the point that those in hospitals are none believers, well such healing don't happen in church between believers neither. Also, Jesus healed a lot of unbelievers that later became believers. Physical healing does not happen the way believers wish or say they have the power to do so. Yes Jesus and the apostles did heal and raise the dead but you need to understand that such power was to show that Jesus Christ was who He said He was. The messiah, God Himself etc etc.

Another point I want to make is that why would God allow us to heal people physically when He already designed our body's with immune systems that heal all by itself ? Coupled with the fact that there is almost a plant or herb available that help aid in our healing, take toxins out of the body etc. Cancer by the way is not a sickness, it is the last resort by the body to heal itself. Unfortunately it's radiation from chemo and other drugs that kill what good cells we have left. I will talk with anyone about this subject if they like but back to my point in hand.
It don't matter to God if we die in a sense that when we die we enter into eternity anyway. God wants us to turn from sin and be saved from the eternity of hell. If God was worried about how we die, He would prevent a lot of stuff but He don't interfere with free will. As a result from sin and how God cursed the earth, sickness and death are part of it. Jesus mission was never to prolong our life's but to save our souls.

It is appointed for Every human to die. This is the first death as a result of sin. How we die varies from cancer to gunshots, car crashes to overdoses and cot deaths to natural causes. I am sorry to hear of your sad news but incurable cancer fits perfectly with what I am saying. We are all going to die one way or another. Some tragic, others unfortunate and this will happen to us all whether we believe or not, have faith or not or follow Jesus or some other false God. So please don't ever listen to such rubbish from any pastor or other. Such foolish words lead us into guilt and I can see your point exactly. Do you think a loving father would make you feel guilty for something He could prevent.? Never! That only comes from the devil and your sin ridden consciousness. Jesus came to set us free from guilt and shame. Trust in His words and His alone. Never feel guilty for the passing of a family member or other because you think you didn't pray or have enough believe. I hope this helps and my prayers are with anybody that loses someone to death.
One final note that I personally believe because of scripture.
I do believe the healing Jesus promised us is spiritual healing. It is such healing to set people free from depression, addictions, suicides etc etc. If we battle not against flesh and blood (physical) but against powers of darkness and demons (spiritual) then that is what we need to be freeing people from. The battle for our souls are in our minds and that's where we need to heal people. It is easier to have negative thoughts rather than positive ones without the Holy Spirit within us. That's why we are called to renew our minds by washing them with the word of God.
God Bless Jonathan

Amen and even those Jesus rose, died later. If we were always healed in this life, why don't we get younger?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hes makeing Christ out to be a lair for God shall only know his will and him alone who is this mere mortal who decides Gods will he has no divine authority stay away from such men its not what he says this Dan Mohler what does christ say ben

I am curious, what is Dan Mohler's Theological training?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Matthew 13:58

“And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.”

From your own quote, it shows that he did do some miracles there despite their unbelief.

53 When Jesus finished telling these parables, he left that place 54 and went back to his hometown. He taught in the synagogue, and those who heard him were amazed. “Where did he get such wisdom?” they asked. “And what about his miracles? 55 Isn't he the carpenter's son? Isn't Mary his mother, and aren't James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas his brothers? 56 Aren't all his sisters living here? Where did he get all this?” 57 And so they rejected him.

Jesus said to them, “A prophet is respected everywhere except in his hometown and by his own family.” 58 Because they did not have faith, he did not perform many miracles there.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Moses and David prayed for others at times. such as when they were under a plague or when fire came out - and it was quenched

Paul once told about 260 people on a ship that to survive they all had to stay on the boat.


Numbers 11:2

“And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched.”

Your quotes do not prove that God always heals. In fact, where are those 260 people today? dead I bet.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Sometimes a person must first humble themselves before God. Hezekiah loved God. Isaiah had told him that he would die. Hezekiah's tears were seen by God and he was later told that God heard his prayer and added to him 15 more years.

2 Kings 20:6

“And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.”

the city is saved - because of David and God's own sake
Lots of times in the OT, God is still showing mercy on Israel and noted it as because of David, even after David was long dead.

good point, the fact that God added time to his life proves that God is.... what??

today, does Jesus have the keys to death?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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1 Samuel 26:10

“David said furthermore, As the LORD liveth, the LORD shall smite him; or his day shall come to die; or he shall descend into battle, and perish.”

A person can die before their time and there is also a set time. This is David speaking as to not slaying his enemy Saul.

How do you know that was not part of God's plan to teach others something?

Where does it say the number of days Saul had to live in the Bible?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The notion of "the only barrier to healing is our unbelief" is a stumbling block, a man made trap that causes harm to believers. It is an abuse, a misuse, a misapplication of Scripture. It is built on an assumption that the power is in us and we have control over it, when in fact this is not true, it is quite the opposite. God has the power, He is sovereign, He has control, and it is always for His purposes and according to His will, whether or not a person is healed or not. It is our duty to embrace and accept the will of God for our life, to humble ourselves and submit to His will, which quite often does not line up with our will(s), His plans are more often than not, not our plans. I have witnessed too many ministers who act and speak as though God, the creator of the universe, were on a leash like a puppy, like they have any right to give orders to their Lord and master. Lord please forgive their ignorance, forgiven them for they know not what they do. amen.

well said
 
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Daniel Marsh

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A lot of Old Testament healing from healing agreed. A lot of New Testament healing too but my point being if prayer helped people live or heal, then why aren't we Christians out there praying and healing the blind, the lame, the sick, the dying?
It's either two things,
1 healing physically like restoring sight etc does not happen today or since the last apostle died.
2 nobody, not one Christian out there has enough faith and prayer life to heal, this I find it hard to imagine as there are lots of devoted Christians out there, like the ones getting the heads cut off because of the belief

Healing physically does not happen or Jesus never existed and it's all lies, which one do you pick? But please be real with yourselves

There exists a dictionary of miracles that speaks of healing since John died.
There is also today a group of doctors who have strict guidelines to document healings and have done so. Kurt Koch documents people being brought back to life somewhere.

The Revival in Indonesia
Kurt E. Koch

A Pathologist Looks at Healing natural, miraculous, spiritual by Dr. David Powell
A pathologist looks at healing

A dictionary of miracles, imitative, realistic, and dogmatic by Ebenezer Cobham Brewer
dictionary of miracles - Google Search
 

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Posted this part to show that at least one righteous man was among the 276 people/Paul. An angel had come to Paul before the ship was wrecked and told him as to all on the ship would be spared. Later, Paul told them that they must all remain on the boat or they would die. People have to follow God's way. He had let them know what to do. Paul warned them as to what the angel had said. God was even caring then about the wicked, unless everyone had become a believer by then. It seems not as the one guy wanted to kill Paul after the ship ran aground.
Was not trying to say that it was a time of healing right then, but later Paul was bitten by a viper or something that hung on his hand. People thought he would die soon, but he did not. After that, sick people came to be healed. There is nothing saying that they became Christians first.

Thanks, clearly I misunderstood you. sorry about that
 
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Consider: Is anything difficult for the Creator of All Things ? (hint: no)

There are things God can not do like lie. But, he can make a rock too heavy for him to lift. Jesus is the creator of large rocks before he came to earth, but while on earth as man.... smile
 
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Why can't they look and see? That is clear from God's Word why they can't.
Read His Word and it's clear ? Not to most of the world.


We are all fallible human beings or something like that --- thus our memory does not always work and I forget the rest.

James 4:13-15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

13 Some of you say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to some city. We will stay there a year, do business, and make money.” Listen, think about this: 14 You don’t know what will happen tomorrow. Your life is like a fog. You can see it for a short time, but then it goes away. 15 So you should say, “If the Lord wants, we will live and do this or that.”

Job 14:1-6Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
14 “We are all human beings.
Our life is short and full of trouble.
2 Our life is like a flower that grows quickly and then dies away.
Our life is like a shadow that is here for a short time and then is gone.
3 God, do you need to keep an eye on something so small?
Why bother to bring charges against me?

4 “No one can make something clean from something so dirty.
5 The length of our life has been decided.
You alone know how long that is.
You have set the limits for us and nothing can change them.

6 So stop watching us; leave us alone,
and let us enjoy this hard life until we have put in our time.

Is The Time Of Your Death Predestined By God?

Psalm 31:15King James Version (KJV)
15 My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.

Psalm 31:15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
15 My life is in your hands.
Save me from those who are persecuting me.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Amen and even those Jesus rose, died later. If we were always healed in this life, why don't we get younger?
True point and if we could always be healed and never die, we would never get to heaven, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] that, I wanna go home now nor amind grow old. That said I love my life now and thank God literally for knocking on my door. It makes this life so so much easier although it throws up some pretty big dirt!
 
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Jonathan Leo

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There exists a dictionary of miracles that speaks of healing since John died.
There is also today a group of doctors who have strict guidelines to document healings and have done so. Kurt Koch documents people being brought back to life somewhere.

The Revival in Indonesia
Kurt E. Koch

A Pathologist Looks at Healing natural, miraculous, spiritual by Dr. David Powell
A pathologist looks at healing

A dictionary of miracles, imitative, realistic, and dogmatic by Ebenezer Cobham Brewer
dictionary of miracles - Google Search
That's all good and I am open to being proved wrong, but I'm the sort of doubting Thomas kind of guy and when the bible says test everything, I want proof. Yes God can make me or anybody a healer of the physical if He wants , it's just I have never seen it or received such gift and people in my church who claim to have the gift of healing, don't actually heal. As I said, I want to see it with my own eyes. As for doctors healing people, isn't this their duty? And I'm sorry, but if I break my leg, that bone will heal with or without faith or believe, and with or without the doctors help. Yes a cast heals it straight so there's no deformation but rest assured without a cast it will still heal. God designed our bodies to heal themselves physically so why give people a gift that's already incorporated within us?
 
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