OSAS Discussion

What do you believe the OSAS doctrine teaches?

  • God's grace allows a christian to sin as much as they wish without fear of consequence.

  • God's grace is provided to christians in order to overlook a christian's sin in their walk with God.

  • God's grace is provided as a means of forbearance by God. Not permission to sin.

  • OSAS teaches it is perfectly ok to continue to sin

  • OSAS teaches we are not without sin, and we are still God's child in our personal walk with Christ.

  • OSAS teaches there is no sin once you have been saved, and you can no longer be condemned.

  • Works are necessary, but only grace merits salvation.

  • Works are more important than grace

  • Works are not as important as grace

  • Works are unimportant at all. All you need is grace


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iwbswiaihl2

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You are still grasping at straws. The Old testament does not support that God Holy Spirit literal would dwell in any individual man, not even Jesus Christ in the flesh. The spirit in Jesus was his own spirit but kept holy because his spirit always sought to be filled of God's spirit and from no other source.

About the only place we find in the OT which could be misconstrued to support belief is Ezekiel 36:27 “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

All other places make it rather clear that God's spirit is with them as a people, influencing them as a people and as individuals meek enough to let themselves receive of that holy influence, rather than literally in them as individuals. And so does Ezekiel 36:27 when properly understood. And here at Ezekiel 36:27 we have no problem identifying who this “you” is that he puts his spirit “in”, if we care to look further at the context:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; …................
Ezekiel 36:24 ... I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

“You”is thus very clearly “the house of Israel” and putting his spirit in “you” clearly means in the house of Israel as a holy nation.

Thus we can properly understand Ezekiel 36:27, as saying, “And I will put my spirit within you (O house of Israel), and cause you (O house of Israel) to walk in my statutes, and ye (O house of Israel) shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

And this does relate to the OSAS doctrine. You use this to explain how God does it all for you. That is how you draw your comfort, not knowing that the reality is that you are wrong.

Your single point in this post is trying to make the point that the whole of Israel is explained by house meaning plural, which no one has disagreed with except when you try to explain that the house is not made up of everyone who is in the house. All of the saints are the body of Christ and each have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, thus all in the house have the Holy Spirit in them.

I did notice while reading your last post, those I highlighted, in the last sentence, there were 9 things I agreed with you on: the last 9 words: knowing that the reality is that you are wrong.
 
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aiki

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The literal translation of Acts 2:3 is, as follows:

(((Acts 2:3
kai wphtheesan autois diamerizomenai glwssai
AND THEY WERE SEEN TO THEM BEING DISTRIBUTED TONGUES
hwsei puros kai ekathisen eph hena hekaston
AS IF OF FIRE, AND IT SAT DOWN UPON ONE EACH
autwn
OF THEM,)))

It is important to note that verse 3 shows that the thing doing the distributing "IT SAT DOWN UPON ONE EACH". Not "in", but, "upon" each of them.

No, actually, strictly following the Greek, the verse in English reads:

And there appeared to them divided tongues as of fire and sat upon one each of them.

There is no "to them being distributed" and no "it" in the verse. What's more, the verse does not say that the thing doing the distributing is the same thing that was seen to sit upon those believers gathered together at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit, the Bible says, is a Person, not a visible, flame-like phenomenon. The flame-like phenomenon merely indicated the Holy Spirit's presence but was not itself the Holy Spirit. This is confirmed by verse 4 which tells us that the Holy Spirit did not merely sit upon the gathered Christians but filled them like jugs filled with water.

The literal translation of Acts 2:4 is, as follows:
(((Acts 2:4
kai epleestheesan pantes pneumatos hagiou kai
AND THEY BECAME FILLED ALL OF SPIRIT HOLY, AND
eerxanto lalein heterais glwssais kathws
THEY STARTED TO BE SPEAKING TO DIFFERENT TONGUES ACCORDING AS
to pneuma edidou apophtheggesthai autois
THE SPIRIT WAS GIVING TO BE UTTERING TO THEM.)))

Again, this is not a good rendering of what is written in the Greek. It reads instead:

and they were filled all with (the) Spirit Holy, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave to them to utter forth.

It is important to note that verse 4 shows no indefinite article in relation to "BECAME FILLED ALL OF SPIRIT HOLY.." Therefore (in the absence of the indefinite article which would have been used to secure the thought as being God's literal Holy Spirit) it is a stretch to claim that God's Holy Spirit itself is literally what entered into them.

"A" or "an" are the only two indefinite articles in English. And you are right: Acts 2:4 does not use such an article in connection with "Holy Spirit." I did not say, though, that this sort of article appeared in the verse. I spoke of the definite article "the" and its relationship to "Holy Spirit." As one who presents himself as knowledgeable in things grammatical, you have made a very simple - and glaring - grammatical error here.

In any event, it is no stretch at all to recognize that in translating into English from Greek, the verse should include a definite article before the first mention of the "Holy Spirit," as it does in every single English translation of the Bible that I know of (which is over fifty of them). The use of such an article in relation to a proper noun may not be as consistent in Greek as in English, but since our Bibles are in English, not Greek, employing the definite article twice in Acts 2:4 is perfectly correct. I am, therefore, extremely confident in reading the verse with two definite articles introducing the two proper noun phrases "Holy Spirit" that appear in the verse.

By the way, are you a Seventh-Day Adventist? You sound like it.

But keep up trying and you will figure it out IF you do not fixate on forcing it to have to be as you believe.

Do you really think these obnoxious remarks strengthen your case or make me more amenable to your views? I can tell you unequivocally that they don't.

The rest of what you said in the post is but seeking of justification to dismiss what is making you uncomfortable and so I will just ignore it.

This is a...convenient side-stepping of my challenge. But not unexpected.

Merry Christmas!
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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You are still grasping at straws. The Old testament does not support that God Holy Spirit literal would dwell in any individual man, not even Jesus Christ in the flesh. The spirit in Jesus was his own spirit but kept holy because his spirit always sought to be filled of God's spirit and from no other source.


About the only place we find in the OT which could be misconstrued to support belief is Ezekiel 36:27 “And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

All other places make it rather clear that God's spirit is with them as a people, influencing them as a people and as individuals meek enough to let themselves receive of that holy influence, rather than literally in them as individuals. And so does Ezekiel 36:27 when properly understood. And here at Ezekiel 36:27 we have no problem identifying who this “you” is that he puts his spirit “in”, if we care to look further at the context:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; …................

Ezekiel 36:24 ... I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

“You”is thus very clearly “the house of Israel” and putting his spirit in “you” clearly means in the house of Israel as a holy nation.

Thus we can properly understand Ezekiel 36:27, as saying, “And I will put my spirit within you (O house of Israel), and cause you (O house of Israel) to walk in my statutes, and ye (O house of Israel) shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

You cited the following: Luke 4:1-2 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry.

Now investigate further:

(((Luke 4:1
ieesous de pleerees pneumatos hagiou hupestrepsen
JESUS BUT FULL OF SPIRIT HOLY TURNED UNDER
apo tou iordanou kai eegeto en tw pneumati en
FROM THE JORDAN, AND WAS BEING LED IN THE SPIRIT IN
tee ereemw
THE DESOLATE [PLACE])))

First we what you say is God's Holy Spirit literally in Jesus "JESUS BUT FULL OF SPIRIT HOLY", and then we see it reversed, "LED IN THE SPIRIT"

First, according to your belief, you have God's literal Holy Spirit in Jesus and then if you interpreted consistently the way you interpreted the first part, as the verse continues on you would have to have Jesus literally IN God's literal Holy Spirit.

You do not understand that word "spirit" and you do not understand these figurative influencial relationships the Scriptures use. And you do not understand that your ideas conflict with much of the OT. Why? Because you are filled up with a belief that comforts you, making you unwilling to put any more work into making sure your ideas harmonize with the OT. God' spirit on the OT has to guide our understanding of the NT or what we get is what you got.

And this does relate to the OSAS doctrine. You use this to explain how God does it all for you. That is how you draw your comfort, not knowing that the reality is that you are wrong.


I never knew Christianity was so complicated.....I Don’t have your vast knowledge of everything ,but I do know this.....if one has the Holy Spirit in Him, I don’t believe God will cast him into hell.....how do we know who has that Spirit.....”no man can say JESUS IS LORD without the Holy Spirit inside him” I draw my comfort from the fact that if OSAS is wrong,Gods word is not true.God can not lie.....the reality is YOU are wrong. “Anybody that ASKS to be saved W I L L be saved....”........tell me ,kind sir—-is that true or false?
 
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Buzz_B

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Your single point in this post is trying to make the point that the whole of Israel is explained by house meaning plural, which no one has disagreed with except when you try to explain that the house is not made up of everyone who is in the house. All of the saints are the body of Christ and each have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, thus all in the house have the Holy Spirit in them.

I did notice while reading your last post, those I highlighted, in the last sentence, there were 9 things I agreed with you on: the last 9 words: knowing that the reality is that you are wrong.
See your straight out lie born of your imagination. I never have said what you claim. You claim about me, "you try to explain that the house is not made up of everyone who is in the house." And that is a flat out lie.

I claim exactly the opposite of what you have said. And so on that point we evidently agree. So where do we differ?

We differ only that I say the model given us in the Old Testament both by the shadow of the design of Israel's temple and by the words of God's prophets proves that the Holy Spirit dwells among the people in the house of God and does its work IN the individuals in that house by its influence.

I did not cite the location for it to be found in the NT the last time I mentioned the following verse, but once again I draw your attention to it:
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

There at Ephesians 2:2 we see what it is like for us outside the house of God's spiritual Israel, in the world. Outside that house, in the world, the power of Satan permeates the air we breath and all who are yet living for the life of the old man who lived in the world and for the world, suffers the effects of that upon their inner spirit.

We who through Christ live for the life that is in the house of God's spiritual Israel are enabled to obey the following: Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind

And what makes that possible? It is possible because in the house of God, God's Spirit has taken over the air so that it is free of that tainted air caused of the spirit of Satan, which permeates the air of the world. The taking in of spirit (drinking of it like water as one way it is pictured) works in similar ways whether we are speaking of that spirit in the world or the spirit that is in God's house of Israel. Our advantage is that God's spirit is greater (mightier) than that in the world. 1 John 4:4 tells us that but we need to once again understand that "you" means that house we are, as contrasted to the world: Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

That house is who Paul speaks to when he uses the plural 2nd person pronoun in most cases. Many have missed that truth. That does not make me wrong for having found the evidence is there right in front of our noses. Just as I inserted the 'O house of Israel' from the context there at Ezekiel 36:27 we can correctly insert that same expression in a good many of Paul's statements. And the same with all the NT Bible writers:

1 John 4:4 Ye (O house of Israel) are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you (O house of Israel), than he that is in the world.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye(O house of Israel) are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in<(the OT says "among" and isn't it just ironic that "en" can be translated "among") them (of the house of Israel), and walk in<(again, the OT says, "among") them; and I will be their God, and they (the house of Israel) shall be my people.

What Paul is there speaking of is the fulfillment of OT prophecy. The evidence is undeniable but the many are too stubborn to look at it.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

How long will you refuse to look and see. You are proving yourselves masters of criticisms. Now try mastering truth. Let your be pointed toward where you need to look by one who has came as a friend rather than to meet out wrath.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
 
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Buzz_B

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I never knew Christianity was so complicated.....I Don’t have your vast knowledge of everything ,but I do know this.....if one has the Holy Spirit in Him, I don’t believe God will cast him into hell.....how do we know who has that Spirit.....”no man can say JESUS IS LORD without the Holy Spirit inside him” I draw my comfort from the fact that if OSAS is wrong,Gods word is not true.God can not lie.....the reality is YOU are wrong. “Anybody that ASKS to be saved W I L L be saved....”........tell me ,kind sir—-is that true or false?
post 224 should help you see better.
 
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Buzz_B

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No, actually, strictly following the Greek, the verse in English reads:

And there appeared to them divided tongues as of fire and sat upon one each of them.
I beg your pardon for clipping and posting from Westcott-Hort without specifying that. It is them you are challenging.

But post 224 should be sufficient to get my point across to you also if such a thing is possible.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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See your straight out lie born of your imagination. I never have said what you claim. You claim about me, "you try to explain that the house is not made up of everyone who is in the house." And that is a flat out lie.

There at Ephesians 2:2 we see what it is like for us outside the house of God's spiritual Israel, in the world. Outside that house, in the world, the power of Satan permeates the air we breath and all who are yet living for the life of the old man who lived in the world and for the world, suffers the effects of that upon their inner spirit.

And what makes that possible? It is possible because in the house of God, God's Spirit has taken over the air so that it is free of that tainted air caused of the spirit of Satan, which permeates the air of the world. The taking in of spirit (drinking of it like water as one way it is pictured) works in similar ways whether we are speaking of that spirit in the world or the spirit that is in God's house of Israel. Our advantage is that God's spirit is greater (mightier) than that in the world. 1 John 4:4 tells us that but we need to once again understand that "you" means that house we are, as contrasted to the world: Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

1 John 4:4 Ye (O house of Israel) are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you (O house of Israel), than he that is in the world.

What Paul is there speaking of is the fulfillment of OT prophecy. The evidence is undeniable but the many are too stubborn to look at it.
and they shall be to me a people:

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

You are the one that is mistaken and I have narrowed your post to stick with your single point as I said before; you may a great deal out of the plural, you and such in the sentence, house another word, but cannot grasp what I said, the house is made up of each individual in the house, the called out ones and they individually are sealed with the HolySpirit just as it says in Eph 1:13-14 unto the day of redemption; Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. And because you do see that this is about OSAS you should also see the point that I have been trying to instill in you is the house without people is vacant; those inside the house are saved and sealed, thus the writer say, the House of God which are not all of Israel, but those who are of the promise Seed, being Jesus, we are children of Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ, not the children of the flesh, as was Ismael. I have never called you a liar, just greatly deceived and not seeing the truth which is right before your eyes, the word declares who is in error. And your sharp over tones reflect a nerve has been struck. Maybe you are seeing the flaw in your reasoning, let's hope so.
 
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Buzz_B

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You are the one that is mistaken and I have narrowed your post to stick with your single point as I said before; you may a great deal out of the plural, you and such in the sentence, house another word, but cannot grasp what I said, the house is made up of each individual in the house, the called out ones and they individually are sealed with the HolySpirit just as it says in Eph 1:13-14 unto the day of redemption; Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. And because you do see that this is about OSAS you should also see the point that I have been trying to instill in you is the house without people is vacant; those inside the house are saved and sealed, thus the writer say, the House of God which are not all of Israel, but those who are of the promise Seed, being Jesus, we are children of Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ, not the children of the flesh, as was Ismael. I have never called you a liar, just greatly deceived and not seeing the truth which is right before your eyes, the word declares you is in error.
I have been learning from God these past few months concerning another mistake I was formerly making in my understanding. And it just happens that the point I formerly did not see is what this post from you now makes apparent to me that you also do not see.

As each member of Christ's body is baptized in the holy spirit they are become sealed together with the other members already in Christ's body. This is for a two-fold reason.

One reason is that they need the bath in the holy spirit to render them clean else they could not enter into God's temple to be with those other members in that temple with the body of Christ.

The second reason is that God is not directly saving the individual but is saving the individual through and in the body of Christ which is as a house. That house is what God is directly saving. And if a member of that household, then the individual gets saved.

Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Hebrews 3:6 "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end."

It is only by staying faithfully in the body of Christ as our house provided us of God that we can have that clean conscience which Peter said is saving us at 1 Peter 3:20-21.

The body of Christ is our Ark of Salvation and just as God saved the Ark that Noah built through the flood, the guarantee is that God will also save our Ark which is that temple built up of the body Christ and we, if we as a member of that house remain faithful in that house.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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I have been learning from God these past few months concerning another mistake I was formerly making in my understanding. And it just happens that the point I formerly did not see is what this post from you now makes apparent to me that you also do not see.

The body of Christ is our Ark of Salvation and just as God saved the Ark that Noah built through the flood, the guarantee is that God will also save our Ark who is Christ and we if we remain faithfully in him.

I cut out part of your post which I must say is enlightening. And to put attention on what I do not see, as you state it. In part we agree on the house phraseology, but not completely. Its not the body of Christ(the church) that is the ark, the ark is Jesus, being in Him gives us the security and the entrance into the body(house). The ark in Noah's day was a type of being in Jesus, Noah and his family were all saved because they were in the Ark(God) and riding in the ark brought to a safe landing. When they entered the wooden ark they were guaranteed to be delivered from the flood, just like when a sinner becomes a saint, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, is like God said He would shut the door to the wooden ark, thus by being sealed, we will reach our eternal destination, because He holds us by the hand.

And concerning where I said "Its not the body of Christ(the church) that is the ark" it one sense it is, being that the church is made up of those already saved, but like Israel, scripture does say, not all Israel are of the promised Seed. Many, many physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not of the promised Seed. When one is saved they are placed into the true Ark of Christ, which is His body. But each saved one is filled with the Holy Spirit, which is what is meant by the house was filled with the Holy Spirit. I can only testify that were He not in me, I would not be saved, according to scripture which I will show again which specifically states this fact, Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. And the house has no body, only the saints inside the house are sealed, because they are in the Ark(the body of Christ).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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When they entered the wooden ark they were guaranteed to be delivered from the flood, just like when a sinner becomes a saint, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, is like God said He would shut the door to the wooden ark
COOL EXAMPLE!

Realize, of course, that if any one of them had climbed out of the ARK during the flood,
and jumped overboard, they would have died..... 'selah'
....
corresponding perhaps to : if anyone departs after having tasted of heavenly blessings on earth, and turns and tramples Jesus underfoot putting the GOSPEL to shame,

there NO LONGER remains any sacrifice for their sin.
 
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Buzz_B

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I cut out part of your post which I must say is enlightening. And to put attention on what I do not see, as you state it. In part we agree on the house phraseology, but not completely. Its not the body of Christ(the church) that is the ark, the ark is Jesus, being in Him gives us the security and the entrance into the body(house). The ark in Noah's day was a type of being in Jesus, Noah and his family were all saved because they were in the Ark(God) and riding in the ark brought to a safe landing. When they entered the wooden ark they were guaranteed to be delivered from the flood, just like when a sinner becomes a saint, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, is like God said He would shut the door to the wooden ark, thus by being sealed, we will reach our eternal destination, because He holds us by the hand.:amen:
Sure they were, so long as they did not jump out of it thinking that it would be OK to go for a pleasurable swim in the water which was heavily muddied from being in the world.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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COOL EXAMPLE!

Realize, of course, that if any one of them had climbed out of the ARK during the flood,
and jumped overboard, they would have died..... 'selah'
....
corresponding perhaps to : if anyone departs after having tasted of heavenly blessings on earth, and turns and tramples Jesus underfoot putting the GOSPEL to shame,

there NO LONGER remains any sacrifice for their sin.

"IF" is the key word to focus on, when God said get in the ark and I will close the door, He knew already that they were going to get off the boat on dry ground. Whom He seals will never depart the faith or else He would never have sealed them unto the day of redemption with the Holy Spirit and Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit could never have said, Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who began the good work in me will perform unto the end. :amen:
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Sure they were, so long as they did not jump out of it thinking that it would be OK to go for a pleasurable swim in the water which was heavily muddied from being in the world.
read the above post to another and that is what I would say to you. :amen: Also, that is why Romans 8:28-30 is in the past tense, the promise and works of God is from the eternal past and guaranteed to be fulfilled in the future. Someone has written there is no past nor present in the eternal realm, God always can see both if necessary, He never forgets and His word does not return to Him void, but does accomplish that for which He sends it to prosper.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

And being the scholar you are, you will know that the phrase, and we know in v28 is in the perfect tense, which you would know is an action in the past never needing to be repeated, thus the saints(house of God) know this and believe it is true. Here is the interlinear text;
8:28 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | And we know (5758) that all things work together (5719) for good to them that love (5723) God, to them who are (5752) the called according to his purpose.
 
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Buzz_B

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read the above post to another and that is what I would say to you. :amen:
I appreciate that you think Phil 1:6 supports what you are saying but unfortunately it doesn't. It supports that he is fully able to do his part, and that should give us the assurance we need to place our full confidence in him so that we do not end up wavering in our faith. But it does not ensure that it is impossible for us to waver. To take it as if Paul meant that it ensures that it is impossible for us to waver ignores most of what Paul spoke in that chapter and the next chapter and in most of his writings.

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

But you will see it your preferred way, won't you. Oh well. :)

Edit: And PS/ I did not use the word "IF" in post 232. Did that help? LOL.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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To take it as if Paul meant that it ensures that it is impossible for us to waver ignores most of what Paul spoke in that chapter and the next chapter and in most of his writings.
Amen.
There are more warnings about the judgments, about the possibility of being deceived again, of losing it all again,
than there are blessings for those who do endure to the end to be saved.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Good, no problem.
"IF" a person tramples Jesus underfoot, they lose their salvation, as written in God's Word.
And affirming what I believe you mean, as the writer of Hebrews said, Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. I am thinking you will agree with this. :oldthumbsup:

After reading your above post, I am :scratch:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And affirming what I believe you mean, as the writer of Hebrews said, Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. I am thinking you will agree with this
Why ?
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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I appreciate that you think Phil 1:6 supports what you are saying but unfortunately it doesn't. It supports that he is fully able to do his part, and that should give us the assurance we need to place our full confidence in him so that we do not end up wavering in our faith. But it does not ensure that it is impossible for us to waver. To take it as if Paul meant that it ensures that it is impossible for us to waver ignores most of what Paul spoke in that chapter and the next chapter and in most of his writings.

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

But you will see it your preferred way, won't you. Oh well. :)

Edit: And PS/ I did not use the word "IF" in post 232. Did that help? LOL.

But post 235 did and that is who I replied too. :oldthumbsup:
 
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