What is the correct denomination or faith?

Vicomte13

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If you want to convince a Catholic, quote Jesus. Otherwise, call it a day.
What quotes of Jesus “ convinced you” to believe in Mary-Worship,Purgatory, etc , etc , etc ....be specific. Please.Not interested in what a thousand different councils dreamed up. Actually, never mind— been down this road enough to last my a thousand lifetimes.....I’m gonna call it a day.

Purgatory? Every time Jesus says "Gehenna". Gehenna is Jewish Purgatory.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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Purgatory? Every time Jesus says "Gehenna". Gehenna is Jewish Purgatory.
Gehenna is hell. Not purgatory.
1067. geenna
Strong's Concordance
geenna: Gehenna, a valley W. and South of Jer., also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Original Word: γέεννα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: geenna
Phonetic Spelling: (gheh'-en-nah)
Short Definition: Gehenna
Definition: Gehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.
HELPS Word-studies
1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation).

Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Hebrew origin gay and Hinnom
Definition
Gehenna, a valley W. and S. of Jer., also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
NASB Translation
hell (12).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1067: γηννα

γηννα (others would accent γηννα, deriving it through the Chaldee. In Mark 9:45 Rec.st γηνα), γηνης (Buttmann, 17 (15)), ἡ, (from הִנֹּם גֵּי, Nehemiah 11:30; more fully בֶּן־הִנֹּם גֵּיא, Joshua 15:8; Joshua 18:16; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Jeremiah 7:32; בְּנֵי־הִנֹּם גֵּי, 2 Kings 23:10 Kethibh; Chaldean גְּהִנָם, the valley of the son of lamentation, or of the sons of lamentation, the valley of lamentation, הִנֹּם being used for נִהֹם lamentation; see Hiller, Onomasticum; cf. Hitzig (and Graf) on Jeremiah 7:31; (Böttcher, De Inferis, i., p. 82ff); accusative to the common opinion הִנֹּם is the name of a man), Gehenna, the name of a valley on the south and east of Jerusalem (yet apparently beginning on the Winer's Grammar, cf. Joshua 15:8; Pressel in Herzog, under the word), which was so called from the cries of the little children who were thrown into the fiery arms of Moloch (which see), i. e. of an idol having the form of a bull. The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. And since fires were always needed to consume the dead bodies, that the air might not become tainted by the putrefaction, it came to pass that the place was called γηννα τοῦ πυρός (this common explanation of the descriptive genitive τοῦ πυρός is found in Rabbi David Kimchi (fl. circa A.D. 1200) on Psalm 27:13. Some suppose the genitive to refer not to purifying fires but to the fires of Moloch; others regard it as the natural symbol of penalty (cf. Leviticus 10:2; Numbers 16:35; 2 Kings 1; Psalm 11:6; also Matthew 3:11; Matthew 13:42; 2 Thessalonians 1:8, etc.). See Böttcher, as above, p. 84; Meyer (Thol.) Wetstein (1752) on Matthew 5:22); and then this name was transferred to that place in Hades where the wicked after death will suffer punishment: Matthew 5:22, 29; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:5; Mark 9:43, 45; James 3:6; γηννα τοῦ πυρός, Matthew 5:22; Matthew 18:9; Mark 9:47 (R G Tr marginal reading brackets); κρίσις τῆς γηννης, Matthew 23:33; υἱός τῆς γηννης, worthy of punishment in Gehenna, Matthew 23:15.
 
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Vicomte13

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Gehenna is hell. Not purgatory.

According to this source.
But according to the Jews, to whom Jesus was speaking, it's Purgatory.

There is no "Hell". There is Gehenna, before the Resurrection, and then there is the Lake of Fire, after the Resurrection.

If you're a Scandinavian, Hell is the opposite of Valhalla, but it does not appear in the Bible.

In the Bible there is Sheol/Hades (the world of the dead), Gehenna (Purgatory), Gan Eden (Paradise). Then at the end of the world there is the City of God, which comes out of the sky ("heaven" is the sky), and the Lake of Fire for those who fail final judgment.

Nobody goes to either Heaven or Hell in the Bible. They only do that in Christian tradition.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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What convinced me about the Immaculate Conception is: Mary's apparition at Lourdes saying she is the Immaculate Conception, coupled with the spring springing up there from which ten thousand miraculous healings (including about 70 "official" miracles) have flowed and still flow, coupled with the fact that the girl who saw her, Bernadette Soubirous - St. Bernadette - died, was buried and was found 30 years later incorrupt, and remains so to this day.

That clinches it for me.

Where is Jesus in that? The miraculous healings and incorruption of St. Bernadette's body could not occur were they not the active will of God.

So, that's how I know. Nothing to do with the Bible. Empirical fact, miracle and inductive reasoning.


ACHHHHHHHHH!!!! Ladies and Gents,let it be known— I Officially give up....Congrats to all my worthy foes out there....you have worn me out.....now, does anybody have a gun so I can go shoot myself? Lol
 
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Denadii

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If you follow Christ, you cant go wrong. If you follow man....you have to make sure you are following the right men, with the correct doctrine, in the right churches of the right denomination. So to limit my chances of being wrong....I follow Christ.
Define..."Christ" Is that Jesus' last name?
 
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FireDragon76

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That would mean every church! Lol

There really are churches out there where the people aren't nasty and intolerable, that's all I was saying. Nobody should put up with that sort of behavior out of people in the name of having the right doctrines.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Sorry, that doesn’t seem to say “Jesus said to follow Paul as Paul follows Christ”.


What do you think it means and who do you think prompted Paul to include this in Holy Scripture? Thanks for your answer
 
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Denadii

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ACHHHHHHHHH!!!! Ladies and Gents,let it be known— I Officially give up....Congrats to all my worthy foes out there....you have worn me out.....now, does anybody have a gun so I can go shoot myself? Lol
Immaculate conception....I can easily accept that Mary had not known a man when she bore Jesus.....But Lourdes? Really? That was not Mary...The picture you see painted or drawn of the woman is not even accurate...Do some digging and you will find that the woman wore a short dress...Mini skirt? That type of garment was worn, at the time, only by hookers. The woman, simply put, was a demon. The entire thing was demonic. It used and fooled three children, and deceived thousands of adults as well.
A friend of mine just finished some deep research into the subject...Read 'Fatima' By L.A. Marzulli...
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Purgatory? Every time Jesus says "Gehenna". Gehenna is Jewish Purgatory.


If the Jews believe in purgatory ,that’s at least two things we know they got wrong.
 
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Vicomte13

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ACHHHHHHHHH!!!! Ladies and Gents,let it be known— I Officially give up....Congrats to all my worthy foes out there....you have worn me out.....now, does anybody have a gun so I can go shoot myself? Lol

LOL! So I'll see you at Mass next Sunday? :liturgy:
 
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Vicomte13

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Immaculate conception....I can easily accept that Mary had not known a man when she bore Jesus.....But Lourdes? Really? That was not Mary...The picture you see painted or drawn of the woman is not even accurate...Do some digging and you will find that the woman wore a short dress...Mini skirt? That type of garment was worn, at the time, only by hookers. The woman, simply put, was a demon. The entire thing was demonic. It used and fooled three children, and deceived thousands of adults as well.
A friend of mine just finished some deep research into the subject...Read 'Fatima' By L.A. Marzulli...

Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Peter, Paul, Paul. I asked for Jesus.
The last quote is from Jesus. Jesus also send the Apostle Judas Iscariot out to teach the good news and heal the sick, cast out demons, and Judas did so just as the other Apostles did. Merely being commissioned to preach did not transform Judas into Jesus, with the same authority as Jesus on all things, and it did not do so for Paul either. Apostles cannot make law. Only God can do that, and they are not God.

You did not show me where Jesus said that every word Paul or the Apostles spoke is God-breathed. You showed me Peter saying that men were and are moved by God. That's true. It was true of Judas Iscariot also, except when it wasn't.

Being inspired by God does not transform an apostle into God, able to make laws for God, and able to speak authoritatively in a way that overrides what Jesus said.

This is a fundamental difference between your religion and mine. Apostles cannot transform a series of letters and scrolls into a God-maker, thus elevating their own words to the authority of Jesus. This is the great error lying at the very heart of Protestantism.

Paul is not worthy to loosen the strap of Jesus' sandals - and Paul knew that. HE never forgot that he was a killer of Christians before Jesus blinded him and gave him new sight. Jesus used him to carry forth an important message. Jesus did not use him to overturn the very things that Jesus said out of his own mouth.

You have used the Bible to elevate Paul to the status of God, capable of overriding Jesus. Because you and your type do that, I do not trust the Bible in your hands. Which is why I tell you truly that if you want me to accept your arguments, you must quote Jesus alone. You abuse Paul and Peter so very badly in the way you handle him that I hear you, not them, when you quote them.

Make your argument with Jesus' words.
Every argument I make with the world about these things is based on the direct words of Jesus or the Father. If you can't make the argument from God's own words and have to try to bootstrap Peter and Paul into being God, we're already so far apart there's no point going on. The only man who was ever God was Jesus. I know that you believe your book turns Paul, and Peter, etc., into God also. This is quite absurd. Your repeating over and over that it does doesn't convince anybody of anything.

If you want to convince a Catholic, quote Jesus. Otherwise, call it a day.

Vicomte13, this is the first time I've heard a professed catholic state with such simple truth and clarity, the issue of many of our theological differences among the denominations today.

My question to you however, is you say that no apostle can make laws or change the teachings of Christ.. and I completely agree with you. How does that statement square with your church's belief that the leadership is from apostolic succession, yet they have changed God's law and taught contrary to His teachings?
 
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redleghunter

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How do you determine whether you follow the correct denomination or faith? How can you be sure your denomination is the right one and all the others are wrong and full of lies that have deceived you?
1 Corinthians 1: KJV

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
 
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BobRyan

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What convinced me about the Immaculate Conception is: Mary's apparition at Lourdes saying she is the Immaculate Conception, coupled with the spring springing up there from which ten thousand miraculous healings (including about 70 "official" miracles) have flowed and still flow, coupled with the fact that the girl who saw her, Bernadette Soubirous - St. Bernadette - died, was buried and was found 30 years later incorrupt, and remains so to this day.

That clinches it for me.

How odd that no Bible writer "noticed"..
 
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