Once the tax reform bill passes will the left still say Trump has accomplished nothing?

Go Braves said:

37 of 38 economists said the GOP tax plans would grow the debt. The 38th misread the question.

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Those who say that the debt will not go up say this at the direct request of the president. But that isn't the point. Some believe in debt when needed; at least that's what Democrats have preached for many decades. In the end, the measure will be the future growth rates, future labor participation rates, and election results. The level of the debt will have little to do with these. BTW, it is really the percentage of debt to GNP that is more critical than the level of the debt.

About the ratio of debt to GDP, we are on pace to have the debt to exceed the GDP.

mark kennedy said:

About the ratio of debt to GDP, we are on pace to have the debt to exceed the GDP.

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Yes, I believe that is already the case. If labor participation rates were much higher, wages increase, and companies competitive and moving more production and investment to the US, the amount of the debt would be almost irrelevant.

Now the Democrats are deficit hawks, a year ago it was the Republicans.

Mountainmanbob said:

For it seems there are a few that no matter what Trump does in the positive will never give him credit.

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Just like the drones that inhabit these forums...

mark46 said:

Those who say that the debt will not go up say this at the direct request of the president. But that isn't the point. Some believe in debt when needed; at least that's what Democrats have preached for many decades. In the end, the measure will be the future growth rates, future labor participation rates, and election results. The level of the debt will have little to do with these. BTW, it is really the percentage of debt to GNP that is more critical than the level of the debt.

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As the article I posted states, "the GOP tax bills in Congress would cause U.S. debt to increase "substantially" faster than the economy." Conservative economists have railed against the plan.

Mountainmanbob said:

Just a test of the left here. We will see after the tax reform bill passes today.

I believe Trump will receive no credit from the left. For they are whining about how bad this will be while most Economist are excited about the bill.

M-Bob

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No, speaking for the liberals (defined by Webster as "marked by generosity"), I will acknowledge that Trump has accomplished something--he just hasn't accomplished anything POSITIVE.

As for "most economists," name one.Here's 38 "no's."
Poll: Economists Unanimous That Debt Would Balloon Under GOP Tax Plan

And here's 42 more: Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy

You should read what Nobel Prize economist Paul Krugman writes in the NY Times eviscerating these tax proposals.

Or former NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg--10 times wealthier than Donald Trump "alleges" to be.

My own personal choice for smartest man in America--economist and former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, now a leader in the Resistance.

By the time the 2018 election comes, the names of the representatives who supported this bill will be mud. The Common Sense Coalition has been mobilized.

mark46 said:

No, the Democrats will NOT give Trump credit for what they believe is the worst tax legislation since before the Depression.

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make him responsible.

Mountainmanbob said:

The thread was not meant to Flame anyone just a little discussion regarding something that I'm wondering about.

For it seems there are a few that no matter what Trump does in the positive will never give him credit. Understood this appears to be the world we live in today.

M-Bob

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i dont think asking for a citation for a claim that runs counter to ALL present evidence is a flame in any way.
Frankly id wager the purpose of this thread is FAR closer to a flame.

Go Braves said:

37 of 38 economists said the GOP tax plans would grow the debt. The 38th misread the question.

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onion headline?

Trying to convince the Middle Class that the increases in their paychecks are bad because Congress might not extend them in 2027 is NOT a winning issue. In fact, taxes and the economy are probably the only issues where the Democrats could snatch defeat out of the jaws of rather automatic victory.

Fantine said:

No, speaking for the liberals (defined by Webster as "marked by generosity"), I will acknowledge that Trump has accomplished something--he just hasn't accomplished anything POSITIVE.

As for "most economists," name one.Here's 38 "no's."
Poll: Economists Unanimous That Debt Would Balloon Under GOP Tax Plan

And here's 42 more: Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy

You should read what Nobel Prize economist Paul Krugman writes in the NY Times eviscerating these tax proposals.

Or former NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg--10 times wealthier than Donald Trump "alleges" to be.

My own personal choice for smartest man in America--economist and former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, now a leader in the Resistance.

By the time the 2018 election comes, the names of the representatives who supported this bill will be mud. The Common Sense Coalition has been mobilized.

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rambot said:

make him responsible.

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You are betting on a recession by November. Otherwise, taxes and the economy are winning issues for Republicans.

mark46 said:

You are betting on a recession by November. Otherwise, taxes and the economy are winning issues for Republicans.

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To the simple and the short term minded yes.

rambot said:

To the simple and the short term minded yes.

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The majority in any jurisdiction do NOT vote based on effects 5 or 10 years in the future. Do you disagree?

mark46 said:

The majority in any jurisdiction do NOT vote based on effects 5 or 10 years in the future. Do you disagree?

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Not at all

I think people will stop saying that Trump accomplished nothing. But after one year holding both parliaments of the government, getting one thing done is nothing to brag about.

I'm sure most will say that what he did was a bad thing.

mark46 said:

Those who say that the debt will not go up say this at the direct request of the president. But that isn't the point. Some believe in debt when needed; at least that's what Democrats have preached for many decades. In the end, the measure will be the future growth rates, future labor participation rates, and election results. The level of the debt will have little to do with these. BTW, it is really the percentage of debt to GNP that is more critical than the level of the debt.

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Debt is strangely enough always alright as long as you are the one acruing it and the other party will propably have to deal with the fallout.

Aryeh Jay said:

Has the bar really been set that low or did we just do away with it?

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It would seem that, for Republicans, being able to toss anything in the Win column is good enough.

rambot said:

onion headline?

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I've been listening to a lot of back episodes of Freakonomics and Planet Money, and these University of Chicago surveys (which are conducted all the time, I believe) come up semi-regularly. Having a couple people misunderstand a question seems disappointingly common.

rambot said:

onion headline?

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The Trump administration has made Poe's Law a part of everyday life. We can no longer tell when a headline is from The Onion or real. Unfortunately, that one is real.

Fantine said:

No, speaking for the liberals (defined by Webster as "marked by generosity"), I will acknowledge that Trump has accomplished something--he just hasn't accomplished anything POSITIVE.

As for "most economists," name one.Here's 38 "no's."
Poll: Economists Unanimous That Debt Would Balloon Under GOP Tax Plan

And here's 42 more: Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy

You should read what Nobel Prize economist Paul Krugman writes in the NY Times eviscerating these tax proposals.

Or former NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg--10 times wealthier than Donald Trump "alleges" to be.

My own personal choice for smartest man in America--economist and former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, now a leader in the Resistance.

By the time the 2018 election comes, the names of the representatives who supported this bill will be mud. The Common Sense Coalition has been mobilized.

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Conservative economists also called it the turd bucket that it is.

Conservative economists rail against the GOP tax plan
http://www.businessinsider.com/republican-tax-plan-consequences-2017-12

People who qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit, are there as common as weeds in all those red Deep South States, won't get a penny more. Seniors who see their Medicare and Social Security under attack by Republicans, won't be big fans either. All those employees who won't get overtime because Trump rescinded Obama's executive order won't be happy either. People in states with high local taxes will be angry. And all that will happen immediately.

There are, and will be many reasons to be mad at the administration.

Folks here tie the coming SS discussions to the new tax law. I don't the voters will do that in 11 months. They will evaluate the effect of any new change in Social Security rules, or Medicare or Medicaid.

IMHO, it will be a poor strategy to tell people how terrible their pay increases are (to the 80 or 90% who now pay taxes), because the rich got more. That is simply my opinion.

Even those who pay no tax are eligible for increased child care credits.
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I agree 100% that in the rich suburbs and even elsewhere in the rich states, the Republican action will be very unpopular. Of course, these are almost all Democratic states. However, there are lots more seats to be had in CA, WA, CO, NJ, NY, CT, MD, and VA.
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As an aside, as far as actually filling out a tax form, that won't happen until AFTER the mid-term.
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In the meantime, lots of counties can get lots of money immediately by accepting payment in 2017 for 2018 property taxes. Many counties allow this; many do not. And my guess is that some will announce very quickly the they will accept the payments.

Fantine said:

People who qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit, are there as common as weeds in all those red Deep South States, won't get a penny more. Seniors who see their Medicare and Social Security under attack by Republicans, won't be big fans either. All those employees who won't get overtime because Trump rescinded Obama's executive order won't be happy either. People in states with high local taxes will be angry. And all that will happen immediately.

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Basically the folks who voted for Trump are the ones who are going to be the most screwed over by this tax bill in the long run.