Millennial Considerations

Truth7t7 said:

I

You have wicked walking around living in Revelation 22:15 "Wrong"!

I clearly showed you the wicked will be outside the gate in the lake of fire "Burning"!
Isaiah 66:24

You have been clearly shown "Twice" will you continue your teaching in error?

Click to expand...

You're doctrine is wrong, because when the "lake of fire" happens, the wicked are burned up and destroyed. At this point in time in the Millennium, the wicked are still existing and are outside the gates of the beloved city...

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV


This is timing just before... that destruction event...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Sorry Davy, the final judgment has taken place already as seen in Revelation 20:11-15

There will be no wicked walking around living in the eternal kingdom where the tree of life is present in Revelation 22:14-15

As seen below, in the eternal new heaven and earth in Isaiah 66:22-24 below, the wicked will be outside the gate burning in the eternal lake of fire.

(Inside The Gate)
Verse 23, All Flesh Worships Before The Lord.

(Outside The Gate) Verse 24, The Wicked In The Lake Of Fire.

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, when Jesus returns the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom takes place. Matthew 25:31-46

Davy said:

You're doctrine is wrong, because when the "lake of fire" happens, the wicked are burned up and destroyed. At this point in time in the Millennium, the wicked are still existing and are outside the gates of the beloved city...

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV


This is timing just before... that destruction event...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Click to expand...

Truth7t7 said:

I

You have the unrighteous wicked, walking around living outside the gates in Revelation 22:15 "Wrong"!

I clearly showed you the wicked will be outside the gate "In The Lake Of Fire Burning"! As Isaiah 66:24 clearly teaches.

You have been clearly shown "Twice" will you continue your teaching in error?

Click to expand...

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you here, to a degree anyway. Now ask yourself this----

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


This is clearly meaning after the 2nd coming and is occurring during the new heavens and new earth. Unless people could still transgress against the LORD after this, what is the point in them going forth and looking upon these? I tend to think it is a further warning to the mortal survivors remaining after the 2nd coming, that if you transgress against me as well, you too will meet this same fate. They are then given a thousand years and are tested one last time when satan is loosed.

I have always concluded that the creating of the new heavens and new earth are not instantaneous, but is a process over time. Isaiah 66:24 seems to somewhat prove this theory. How? Compare that verse with the following.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Compared with---

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind----And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me


How can both be true at the same time?

Davy said:

Well, in the resurrection, there is no such thing as a 'physical resurrection' if by that you mean a resurrection of a flesh body. Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15 taught only one type of resurrection, one to a "spiritual body":

Click to expand...

Obviously I know that the body is raised a spiritual body, but even though it's a spiritual body it's still a physical resurrection. It's not a resurrection of the flesh, but it's still physical.

Davy said:

You're simply doing what those on the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine often do, assuming something says an idea when it does not. The Acts 3:21 verse does NOT define the 'when' of the restitution of all things. You are adding... a time to that verse that is not defined there!

Click to expand...

I think you're confused. I never claimed to know when the restitution of all things would take place, but Acts 3:21 does tie two events together. The return of Jesus and the restitution of all things happen in the same time frame.

Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Which means Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. I think that's pretty clear. I don't know why you insist on jumping through hoops to change the meaning of that verse. Would it be so horrible for Jesus to return at the end?

Davy said:

And what is making you do that is the doctrinal tradition you follow that wrongly teaches to omit the "thousand years" Millennium written in Rev.20 that's to occur right after Jesus' return.

Click to expand...

What makes you think the millennium occurs right after Jesus' return? I've already shown you two scriptures that tell us he returns at the end, and I've never seen a single one that says he returns at the beginning.

DavidPT said:

I'm somewhat inclined to agree you here, to a degree anyway. Now ask yourself this----

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


This is clearly meaning after the 2nd coming and is occurring during the new heavens and new earth. Unless people could still transgress against the LORD after this, what is the point in them going forth and looking upon these? I tend to think it is a further warning to the mortal survivors remaining after the 2nd coming, that if you transgress against me as well, you too will meet this same fate. They are then given a thousand years and are tested one last time when satan is loosed.

I have always concluded that the creating of the new heavens and new earth are not instantaneous, but is a process over time. Isaiah 66:24 seems to somewhat prove this theory. How? Compare that verse with the following.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Compared with---

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind----And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me


How can both be true at the same time?

Click to expand...

Dave there will be no period of 1000 literal years "Anywhere" in scripture, and satan will be judged eternally to the lake of fire at the second coming, and isn't going to be released as the dispy's and you teach.

Satan is loosed at the end of the 42 month future tribulation on this earth, the nations are gathered for the battle of Armageddon, Jesus returns the resurrection of all takes place, the final judgment of all takes place, eternity begins for all.

(Eternity Begins At The Second Coming)

The eternal kingdom for the righteous.

The eternal lake of fire for the wicked.

The former will not be remembered as God's word clearly teaches. The eternal lake of fire is not of the former physical world, its part of the New Creation.

The New Heaven And Earth "The Eternal Kingdom" was prepared from the foundation of the world Matthew 25:34, your teaching of a process of time, is Dave in his human reasoning again.

And God said let there be light, and there was light!

Dave God's toooo big to fit in your back pocket

Truth7t7 said:

there will be no period of 1000 literal years "Anywhere" in scripture,
Satan is loosed at the end of the 42 month future tribulation on this earth,

Click to expand...

Rev20
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Satan is the one who empowers the Man of Lawlessness - therefore is evidence satan is not bound before the 42 months , not even now

God said he is sending a delusion , looks like you have taken a bite of it already

LastSeven said:

Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Which means Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years, not the beginning. I think that's pretty clear.

Click to expand...

Can you expand more on why you are concluding this has to mean Jesus returns at the end of the thousand years, not the beginning?

seventysevens said:

Satan is the one who empowers the Man of Lawlessness - therefore is evidence satan is not bound before the 42 months , not even now

God said he is sending a delusion , looks like you have taken a bite of it already

Click to expand...

Notice that the two verses below about the wicked angels being chained are written in the past tense during the first century.


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Where is the beast now, if he asends out of the pit later?

.

BABerean2 said:

Notice that the two verses below about the wicked angels being chained are written in the past tense during the first century.


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Where is the beast now, if he asends out of the pit later?

.

Click to expand...

The beast is not satan though. So what exactly is your point? Amil needs satan currently in the pit in order for Amil to work. So where are the Scriptures indicating satan is also currently in the pit? And not meaning Revelation 20 either since that chapter is the one in dispute.

Stephen Mendes said:

It quite dangerous actually, to flatter ourselves with the notion that we can control and command the Devil..... and it has been the undoing of quite a few Christians.

Click to expand...

Not these Christians.

Luke 10
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

I'm not aware that God withdrew that power from His Church. Are you?

jgr said:

Not these Christians.

Luke 10
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

I'm not aware that God withdrew that power from His Church. Are you?

Click to expand...

I am sure that the beheaded Christians and those who are tortured unto death will have a different opinion than your interpretation, I would challenge you to say that to an ISIS soldier with a sword in his hand --
That scripture is meant for your eternal soul -immortal body when you get one

seventysevens said:

I am sure that the beheaded Christians and those who are tortured unto death will have a different opinion than your interpretation, I would challenge you to say that to an ISIS soldier with a sword in his hand --
That scripture is meant for your eternal soul -immortal body when you get one

Click to expand...

Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

jgr said:

Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Click to expand...

Jon 10
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

DavidPT said:

Amil needs satan currently in the pit in order for Amil to work. So where are the Scriptures indicating satan is also currently in the pit?

Click to expand...

Do you think Satan and the wicked angels who followed him in sinning against God are now roaming around in heaven in the presence of God and Christ, and living among the souls of our Brothers and Sisters, who are now in heaven?


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

BABerean2 said:

Do you think Satan and the wicked angels who followed him in sinning against God are now roaming around in heaven in the presence of God and Christ, and living among the souls of our Brothers and Sisters, who are now in heaven?


2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

Click to expand...

Let me ask you this in return. The passages you supplied above, 2Pe_2:4. Jud_1:6, when do you conclude those things initially happened? If per chance you conclude these things took place before the first coming, and that Amil typically doesn't have satan being bound in the pit until the time of the cross, that shows there is no connection here whatsoever with those passages you submitted and satan being shut up in this same pit as well.

seventysevens said:

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,[/I] and bound him a thousand years,

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Satan is the one who empowers the Man of Lawlessness - therefore is evidence satan is not bound before the 42 months , not even now

God said he is sending a delusion , looks like you have taken a bite of it already

Click to expand...

Of course Satan Is alive today as we speak.

Once again and again and again I will repeat

Satan is currently bound and sealed from "ONE SPECIFIC PURPOSE"

"Deceving the nations to the final battle",
Revelation 20:7-8, Revelation 16:12-14

The event oseen above in scripture, in satan being loosed to perform this deception will take place at the end of the 42 month future tribulation.

Truth7t7 said:

Of course Satan Is alive today as we speak.
Once again and again and again I will repeat
Satan is currently bound and sealed from "ONE SPECIFIC PURPOSE"

"Deceving the nations to the final battle",
Revelation 20:7-8, Revelation 16:12-14
The event of seen above in scripture, in satan being loosed to perform this deception will take place at the end of the 42 month future tribulation.

Click to expand...

satan is NOT bound at all, never has been and won't be until AFTER Jesus returns After the Great Tribulation , you might be thinking of Abaddon the Destroyer who is king of the abyss and is currently bound there and he is the one who kills the Two Witnesses

Truth7t7 said:

Of course Satan Is alive today as we speak.

Once again and again and again I will repeat

Satan is currently bound and sealed from "ONE SPECIFIC PURPOSE"

"Deceving the nations to the final battle",
Revelation 20:7-8, Revelation 16:12-14

The event of seen above in scripture, in satan being loosed to perform this deception will take place at the end of the 42 month future tribulation.

Click to expand...

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Does this casting in of satan into the lake of fire involve a physical act, meaning is he physically cast into some physical place?

DaredPT said:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Does this casting in of satan into the lake of fire involve a physical act, meaning is he physically cast into some physical place?

Click to expand...

I believe revelation 19:20 suggest the beast and false prophet had physical bodies cast alive into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire will be as physical as the new creation, that has rivers, trees, animals, and the lake of fire, bodies burning Isaiah 66:24

I dont see in scripture satan having a physical body like other angels appear in, possibly I missed this one?