State of the Dead

EastCoastRemnant

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In conversing with another member about the Biblical teaching of what happens to us when we die, I thought it would be wise to post a study on the subject so we can all know what the Bible says... how we interpret what is revealed is on each of us.

Verses that speak of the dead being asleep, in a state of inanimate sleep

Deuteronomy 31:16
And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;

2 Samuel 7:12
And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,

1 Kings 1:21
Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Job 7:21
And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Psalm 90:5
Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn

Mark 5:39
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Luke 8:52,53
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

John 11:11-13
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Psalm 88:10
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


There may be a couple I missed but you get the idea... multiple witnesses to the state of the dead. Now lets look at the passages of scripture that speak of immediate translation to Heaven. I only know of a couple so if there be any others, please post them up...thanx.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


 

Dave-W

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East - you make a mistake in assuming that time for the dead and for us living is the same or runs parallel.

God's realm is entirely outside of our time/space existence and as such, I may arrive in HIS presence (in GOD's realm) the exact same second as Able, even though we died thousands of years differently. (according to OUR time stream)
 
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redleghunter

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In conversing with another member about the Biblical teaching of what happens to us when we die, I thought it would be wise to post a study on the subject so we can all know what the Bible says... how we interpret what is revealed is on each of us.

Verses that speak of the dead being asleep, in a state of inanimate sleep

Deuteronomy 31:16
And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;

2 Samuel 7:12
And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,

1 Kings 1:21
Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Job 7:21
And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Psalm 90:5
Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn

Mark 5:39
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Luke 8:52,53
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

John 11:11-13
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Psalm 88:10
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


There may be a couple I missed but you get the idea... multiple witnesses to the state of the dead. Now lets look at the passages of scripture that speak of immediate translation to Heaven. I only know of a couple so if there be any others, please post them up...thanx.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Are you asking where our "inner man" goes when our perishable bodies assume room temperature? If so you should add:

2 Corinthians 4:16–5:10

And Philippians 1:19-26
 
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FireDragon76

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East - you make a mistake in assuming that time for the dead and for us living is the same or runs parallel.

God's realm is entirely outside of our time/space existence and as such, I may arrive in HIS presence (in GOD's realm) the exact same second as Able, even though we died thousands of years differently. (according to OUR time stream)

My pastor has said something similar.

The Biblical authors did not necessarily understand time as linear in the way we do. In fact this is common in non-western cultures.

Resurrection of the dead pretty much requires something metaphysically like a soul as ancient philosophers understood it. Otherwise our existence would literally be extinguished at death and there would be nothing left to raise to new life.
 
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1am3laine

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I've honestly died twice and entered into what I call "white space".
I looked down and up and saw no ceiling or floor and my body was invisible.
All the back pain, stomach, and chest pain was gone.
I couldn't even feel my teeth but I knew they were there.
You can't even feel the smallest bit of pain.
Then water came out of my belly and filled my whole body. I could feel the coolness in my feet. (John 7:37-39)
I was dry and wet at the same time.
I could breathe under the water that was covering me and there wasn't any air bubbles.
The temperature out there was completely perfect; not too hot or cold.

I was an invisible water body floating in white space. Then when I came back alive and all the pain of being human came back like the back pain, stomach, and chest. I could feel my teeth again etc.

to read more click the link below.
The Secrets of The Gospel: What happened to me after I died & came back to life.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Are you asking where our "inner man" goes when our perishable bodies assume room temperature? If so you should add:

2 Corinthians 4:16–5:10

And Philippians 1:19-26

Thanx for adding those quotes.... however, neither one says that the transition is immediate. If I die today and Christ comes in 50 years or 500 years, if I have had no consciousness in death then the next moment after my death will seem like the next moment to me. I believe that is why God phrased it as sleep... sometimes when you fall asleep at night, it seems like the next moment it is morning.
 
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redleghunter

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Thanx for adding those quotes.... however, neither one says that the transition is immediate. If I die today and Christ comes in 50 years or 500 years, if I have had no consciousness in death then the next moment after my death will seem like the next moment to me. I believe that is why God phrased it as sleep... sometimes when you fall asleep at night, it seems like the next moment it is morning.
It's an "either or." Absent from the body present with the Lord.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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It's an "either or." Absent from the body present with the Lord.
Doesn't that make you immortal in and of yourself? We are told that we don't receive immortality from Christ until He returns in the Heavens.

1 Cor 15:52,53
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Seems you are under the spell Satan told to Eve in the garden...

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods
 
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redleghunter

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What do the 23 verses I quoted from the entire Bible mean to you? Are you saying that they are wrong and the others bear sway?
Our bodies die. Perhaps I should ask you what happens to the "inner man" Paul speaks of? Or of the parable Jesus tells of Lazarus and the Rich man. Was Jesus teaching using a parable no one would understand?

Your problem is with Christ and Paul not me.
 
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redleghunter

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FireDragon76

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The Bible speaks of life in different ways too. Greek has multiple words for life. Bios is what we commonly think of as "living": breathing, eating, sleeping, pooping. Zoe has more to do with a quality of being alive. Like when Socrates said, "the unexamined life is not worth living", he was not talking about our biology, like examining our respiration or seeing whether we are constipated, but the state of our soul. Likewise, when Jesus speaks of eternal life, zoe aionion, he is not talking necessarily about an infinite amount of breathing, eating, etc., but something much more spiritual.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Indeed. Yet John does observe souls in Heaven. Revelation 6:9-11.
Johns is shown a vision which is full of symbolism... what parts of chapter 6 do you think is not symbolic vs reality? Are there really red and pale horses in Heaven? Did a literal lamb open the seals? How do you suppose the stars fall to the earth in reality considering most stars are said to be larger than our own sun?
That's the problem people have in trying to interpret scripture... if you don't recognize that figurative language is being used, then you will never understand the passage being studied.
 
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FireDragon76

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Years ago I listened to a biblical scholar talking about his interpretation of Paul, especially concerning the resurrection and how it factors into Pauls cosmology. Paul, according to this scholar, sees human beings as like caterpillars waiting on becoming butterflies, that there's some cosmic superbeing hidden as an embryo inside of us. This is sort of like the Orthodox concept of theosis, that Adam was created to be a "little god", to have God's mastery over creation, but he lost that through the fall.

I think this perspective makes more sense than thinking heaven is about sitting on a cloud playing a harp endlessly. When we die, we become fully conscious of our lives, either they are shown to be part of God's reign and we become partakers of him, part of the "overall big picture" of everything that is true, good, and beautiful in the world, or we become a nothing, something that once had a semblance of life but even that is stripped away.

Our destiny is to become spiritually transhuman. As Pierre Tellhard de Chardin put it, we are not human beings having spiritual experiences, we are spiritual beings having human experiences.
 
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redleghunter

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What part of you ascends up to Heaven when you die? When it is that you actually die?
2 Corinthians 4:16–5:10

And Philippians 1:19-26

This speaks of presence with the Lord apart from our dying or dead bodies. We can take the verses as Paul intended which is that our eyes are fixed on the Resurrection when we get our glorified bodies.

"Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day."

The scope of examining should be the 'state' of our 'inner self' It is being renewed day by day while we groan in these bodies. That state is what we should look at. Your position is we are "inanimate" which means "lifeless." I would argue if our 'inner self is being renewed day by day' then what happens to that inner self? Our souls are manifestly born again by God's Grace. Such regeneration does not 'die' when our corrupted flesh dies.

I don't think it is 'lifeless' as you indicate in the OP (maybe a different term you meant). Is this inner self in some sort of unconscious comatose state ("bubble wrapped") awaiting the Resurrection? Possible Paul does not say.

Jesus did indicate Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham (Luke 16 as you posted in the OP). Jesus makes it clear Lazarus is in a place of comfort and the rich man is not. Paul simply indicates that when we leave the 'outer self' we are present with the Lord. Again I will note, Paul's desire and focus (as is our own) is to be clothed in our resurrected bodies. In Philippians 1 Paul states:

Philippians 1:

21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith, 26 that your rejoicing for me may be more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.

What we have from Paul in two different epistles is (1) a desire to be out of these failing bodies (2) with our eyes fixed on the resurrection and our glorified bodies (3) when we depart our earthly tents we are present with the Lord. Paul is indicating there is some intermediary state of our 'inner self' which is present with the Lord.

He may have had this in mind:


Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Or perhaps Paul had a keen understanding of body and soul from Jesus:

Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
 
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redleghunter

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Johns is shown a vision which is full of symbolism... what parts of chapter 6 do you think is not symbolic vs reality?

Revelation 6:

Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

No question they were killed (meaning their bodies). There is real death and destruction observed in the entire chapter. Why would these saints who John indicates were killed already for their testimony be a symbol. The burden of proof is on you to indicate what the symbol actually indicates other than to wave off the entire passage.
 
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Doug Melven

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To answer the difference between all of the OP's OT Scriptures and what Paul says in Philippians 1:21 see
Matthew 27
27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Although it is not stated if they went back into the graves or into Heaven, I am assuming they went to Heaven.
 
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In conversing with another member about the Biblical teaching of what happens to us when we die, I thought it would be wise to post a study on the subject so we can all know what the Bible says... how we interpret what is revealed is on each of us.

Verses that speak of the dead being asleep, in a state of inanimate sleep

Deuteronomy 31:16
And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;

2 Samuel 7:12
And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,

1 Kings 1:21
Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Job 7:21
And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Psalm 90:5
Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn

Mark 5:39
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Luke 8:52,53
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

John 11:11-13
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Psalm 88:10
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


There may be a couple I missed but you get the idea... multiple witnesses to the state of the dead. Now lets look at the passages of scripture that speak of immediate translation to Heaven. I only know of a couple so if there be any others, please post them up...thanx.

Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


Samuel wasn't inanimate when he was called up in 1 Samuel 28.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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2 Corinthians 4:16–5:10

And Philippians 1:19-26

This speaks of presence with the Lord apart from our dying or dead bodies. We can take the verses as Paul intended which is that our eyes are fixed on the Resurrection when we get our glorified bodies.

"Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day."

The scope of examining should be the 'state' of our 'inner self' It is being renewed day by day while we groan in these bodies. That state is what we should look at. Your position is we are "inanimate" which means "lifeless." I would argue if our 'inner self is being renewed day by day' then what happens to that inner self? Our souls are manifestly born again by God's Grace. Such regeneration does not 'die' when our corrupted flesh dies.

I don't think it is 'lifeless' as you indicate in the OP (maybe a different term you meant). Is this inner self in some sort of unconscious comatose state ("bubble wrapped") awaiting the Resurrection? Possible Paul does not say.

Jesus did indicate Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham (Luke 16 as you posted in the OP). Jesus makes it clear Lazarus is in a place of comfort and the rich man is not. Paul simply indicates that when we leave the 'outer self' we are present with the Lord. Again I will note, Paul's desire and focus (as is our own) is to be clothed in our resurrected bodies. In Philippians 1 Paul states:

Philippians 1:

21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith, 26 that your rejoicing for me may be more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.

What we have from Paul in two different epistles is (1) a desire to be out of these failing bodies (2) with our eyes fixed on the resurrection and our glorified bodies (3) when we depart our earthly tents we are present with the Lord. Paul is indicating there is some intermediary state of our 'inner self' which is present with the Lord.

He may have had this in mind:


Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Or perhaps Paul had a keen understanding of body and soul from Jesus:

Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

So you believe Jesus had to call Lazarus down from the presence of God in Heaven, back to this sinful world? Why would Jesus do that? What about Jairus' daughter, was she plucked from the peaceful presence of God to come back to suffer a life of trial?

That's some twisted doctrine dude.

True doctrine doesn't mar the character of God but shows His infinite Mercy and Love. That's why Jesus taught the merciful state of soul sleep.... I presented the evidence straight from our Saviours mouth, you give me Pauline ambiguity...
 
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