Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

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Forgiven
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Hello and thank you for your time.

I would have to agree to disagree. Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are of the same events. Let me explain.

Keeping Matthew 24:1-3 in mind, in reply to the question concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus gave a rather specific sign. They ask the question "Tell us, when shall these things be?" In Matthew 24:15 Jesus said, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation... stand in the holy place..." Now regarding Luke 21, in his parallel account, Luke identifies the "abomination" which Jesus foretold as the encompassing of Jerusalem by the Roman army: " And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh" (Luke 21:20). In Matthew 24:33 Jesus said, " So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the door." He went on to say in verse 34, "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (compare also Matthew 24:36).
Matthew when he discusses Jerusalem in Matthew 24 is referring to a future event.......when the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple.

Luke when he discusses Jerusalem in Luke 21 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army.


Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It does not say anything about the abomination of desolation. You added the word abomination to your commentary.

When you can't see things such as Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are not taking about the same thing regarding Jerusalem, this is why there is so much confusion in understanding Bible prophecy.
 
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A71

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It is unusual to see Matthew (and presumably Mark) as separate to Luke. All 3 accounts are very similar. But leaving that aside.

In Matthew's account, Jesus told the disciples:

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation,"spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand

The holy place is quite simply Jerusalem itself.

E.g

Psalm 2:6
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean


Matthew when he discusses Jerusalem in Matthew 24 is referring to a future event.......when the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple.

Luke when he discusses Jerusalem in Luke 21 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army.


Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It does not say anything about the abomination of desolation. You added the word abomination to your commentary.

When you can't see things such as Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are not taking about the same thing regarding Jerusalem, this is why there is so much confusion in understanding Bible prophecy.
 
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Acts2:38

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Matthew when he discusses Jerusalem in Matthew 24 is referring to a future event.......when the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple.

Luke when he discusses Jerusalem in Luke 21 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army.


Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

It does not say anything about the abomination of desolation. You added the word abomination to your commentary.

When you can't see things such as Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are not taking about the same thing regarding Jerusalem, this is why there is so much confusion in understanding Bible prophecy.

I didn't add "abomination" to my commentary. I pulled it from Matthew 24:15. Because the 4 gospels are parallel with each other from different perspectives (writers), the account in Luke 21 and Matthew 24 must be the same, worded differently.

Just because Luke didn't put down "abomination" like Matthew did, and only put down desolation, you are telling me that it speaks of 2 separate times?

Well how bout this part....

Luke 21, just like Matthew 24, inserted other key verses. Compare:

Matthew 24: (remember, Jesus is talking to the disciples, so these two verses are in reference to the disciples and the people of THAT time, not future people like us)
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Luke 21:31Same account, Jesus speaking with the disciples, who just happen to ask the same question as Matthew 24:3)
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

I fail to see how Matthew 24:4-35 and Luke 21:7-32 are different. They speak exactly about the same things, just worded differently since it is 2 separate writers.
You and I can write about "If you give a mouse a cookie" book, and I guarantee you, scouts honor, we will word our essays about the book quite differently. However, we will have the same meaning of the same topic, worded/explained differently. In your case, you are saying that we would be talking about 2 different books. That is just not the case.

Here is another problem you are going to run into.....

Let's pretend that you are right, and it is speaking of 2 separate events between Luke 21 and Matthew 24. Even if they are 2 separate events, they are still in the past. They are finished and done, not to worry about any longer. You've already admitted to Luke being finished in 70AD and now I will show you Matthew 24 is done too. Let me explain:

Three key verses that you keep overlooking are Matthew 24:33-34 and Matthew 24:36.

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In Matthew 24:1-3, you are forced to agree that Jesus is talking with His disciples. So when Jesus is telling His disciples (v33-34) "...when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near....I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

You cannot possibly mistake that as 2,000 plus years into the future. The context does not allow it to go beyond 40-50 years as that is the definition of "generation" in terms of people. I cannot go beyond 40-50 years because Jesus is talking to the disciples stating that when THEY see these things and this generation wont die till those things happen. Unless you are saying there are 2,000 year old people walking about?

"But" in verse 36. Transition phrases like but express that there is evidence to the contrary or point out alternatives, and thus introduce a change the line of reasoning (contrast).

Therefore, "but" in verse 36, is a change in subject. Jesus, in verse 36 is now referring to the second question asked by the disciples, that refers to the second coming (in which we know then, would be the end).

Matthew 24 is talking about 2 different subjects. Verses 4-35 are talking about one subject that refers to Jerusalem. Verses 36 and following are talking about a completely different subject, answering the second question the disciples had. The "but" transitioned from one subject to another. Matthew 24:36 and following, even into Matthew 25, are about the second coming.

With these key verses in the light, you are forced to choose that this is a past, said and done event, even IF they are different from the Luke account. There is just no way around it. They are in the past. The second coming has no warnings, signs, or announcements as stated in Matthew 24:36 and following.
 
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BABerean2

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When you can't see things such as Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are not taking about the same thing regarding Jerusalem, this is why there is so much confusion in understanding Bible prophecy.



Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:



Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 

Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

(Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )





Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

(Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 





Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

(Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 

Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 

Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 

Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 

Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 

Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

(Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 

(Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 



Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

(Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

(Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )



Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

(Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

(Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

(Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.

John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.

The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 
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Choose Wisely

Forgiven
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29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory




Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (The moon does not give its light during a blood moon.)
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 
Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 
Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 


The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
It is a series of overlapping visions.
We know this because Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19.


The seals book is a summary of the book of Revelation.
Christ also returns above at the end of chapter 6. The same type of language is used in the Olivet Discourse to describe His Second Coming.


.
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Forgiven
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Matthew 24: (remember, Jesus is talking to the disciples, so these two verses are in reference to the disciples and the people of THAT time, not future people like us)
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


I fail to see how Matthew 24:4-35 and Luke 21:7-32 are different. They speak exactly about the same things, just worded differently since it is 2 separate writers.


Here is another problem you are going to run into.....

Let's pretend that you are right, and it is speaking of 2 separate events between Luke 21 and Matthew 24. Even if they are 2 separate events, they are still in the past. They are finished and done, not to worry about any longer. You've already admitted to Luke being finished in 70AD and now I will show you Matthew 24 is done too. Let me explain:

Three key verses that you keep overlooking are Matthew 24:33-34 and Matthew 24:36.

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In Matthew 24:1-3, you are forced to agree that Jesus is talking with His disciples. So when Jesus is telling His disciples (v33-34) "...when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near....I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

You cannot possibly mistake that as 2,000 plus years into the future. The context does not allow it to go beyond 40-50 years as that is the definition of "generation" in terms of people. I cannot go beyond 40-50 years because Jesus is talking to the disciples stating that when THEY see these things and this generation wont die till those things happen. Unless you are saying there are 2,000 year old people walking about?
The generation that will not pass until all these things are complete is the generation that sees all these things.........not the generation that he is addressing.

Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

So Matthew says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms THEN shall they deliver you up


Luke 21
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Now notice how Luke says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Matthew talks about future events after the nations rise nations and Luke talks about the events that occur BEFORE nations rise against nations.


ITS RIGHT THERE.........IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.
 
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jgr

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The generation that will not pass until all these things are complete is the generation that sees all these things.........not the generation that he is addressing.

Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

So Matthew says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms THEN shall they deliver you up


Luke 21
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Now notice how Luke says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Matthew talks about future events after the nations rise nations and Luke talks about the events that occur BEFORE nations rise against nations.


ITS RIGHT THERE.........IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.

Scriptural and historical evidence of the fulfillment of Matthew 24 and parallel prophecies in the generation immediately following Christ's discourse.

DECEIVERS

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
 
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A71

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Specious in the extreme.
This generation is the generation of Israel in the first century AD. Jesus addressed their perverted and evil nature directly several times.

The generation that will not pass until all these things are complete is the generation that sees all these things.........not the generation that he is addressing.

Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

So Matthew says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms THEN shall they deliver you up


Luke 21
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Now notice how Luke says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Matthew talks about future events after the nations rise nations and Luke talks about the events that occur BEFORE nations rise against nations.


ITS RIGHT THERE.........IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.
 
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Acts2:38

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The generation that will not pass until all these things are complete is the generation that sees all these things.........not the generation that he is addressing.

Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

So Matthew says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms THEN shall they deliver you up


Luke 21
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Now notice how Luke says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars and nation will rise against nation and kingdoms will rise against kingdoms BUT BEFORE ALL THESE.

Matthew talks about future events after the nations rise nations and Luke talks about the events that occur BEFORE nations rise against nations.


ITS RIGHT THERE.........IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.

Hello and thank you for your continued time with me.

With all due respect to you, you are being blind. You are completely overlooking context and sentence structure. You are also forgetting who Jesus is talking to. Lets grab the quotes you put forth here:

First, who is Jesus talking to? Look at Matthew 24:1-3 and Luke 21:5-7.

Now pay close attention to the context/sentence structure.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

See how Jesus says "...on YOU, and persecute YOU, delivering YOU...."

If I was talking to you and said,
"To get to my house, you are going to have to make a left turn, then you will go straight to the light, and you will make a right, then you will be there"

Does that mean your grandkids are going to do that?
Or does it mean you will do that?

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Here it is again, "they deliver YOU up....and shall kill YOU: and YE (meaning YOU) shall be hated...."

So, who is Jesus talking to again? You or the disciples? Therefore who are these events going to be directed at?

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Here it is once more, "and YOU shall hear...see that YOU be not troubled..."

Are you paying close attention to these key words?

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

And again, once more, "but when YOU shall hear...be not terrified..."

I hope you can see where this would give you an uphill battle to say that its talking of our times. Jesus is directing His talk to the disciples and saying things like "YOU shall hear" combined with verses that say "this generation shall not pass", it is unmistakably an event that has already happened.

Actually, better yet, if you will not believe me on the way the sentence is structured and the context of it, I beseech you to go to a studied college English teacher. Have them examine these scriptures as if someone had written an essay.
Then ask that teacher, given the context etc., if this refers to the disciples or people 2,000 years into the future.
 
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Hello and thank you for your continued time with me.

With all due respect to you, you are being blind. You are completely overlooking context and sentence structure. You are also forgetting who Jesus is talking to. Lets grab the quotes you put forth here:

First, who is Jesus talking to? Look at Matthew 24:1-3 and Luke 21:5-7.

Now pay close attention to the context/sentence structure.



See how Jesus says "...on YOU, and persecute YOU, delivering YOU...."

If I was talking to you and said,
"To get to my house, you are going to have to make a left turn, then you will go straight to the light, and you will make a right, then you will be there"

Does that mean your grandkids are going to do that?
Or does it mean you will do that?



Here it is again, "they deliver YOU up....and shall kill YOU: and YE (meaning YOU) shall be hated...."

So, who is Jesus talking to again? You or the disciples? Therefore who are these events going to be directed at?



Here it is once more, "and YOU shall hear...see that YOU be not troubled..."

Are you paying close attention to these key words?



And again, once more, "but when YOU shall hear...be not terrified..."

I hope you can see where this would give you an uphill battle to say that its talking of our times. Jesus is directing His talk to the disciples and saying things like "YOU shall hear" combined with verses that say "this generation shall not pass", it is unmistakably an event that has already happened.

Actually, better yet, if you will not believe me on the way the sentence is structured and the context of it, I beseech you to go to a studied college English teacher. Have them examine these scriptures as if someone had written an essay.
Then ask that teacher, given the context etc., if this refers to the disciples or people 2,000 years into the future.
Hi again..... If you want to know the WHO, you need to know the WHEN.

You probably don't realize that Matt 24 parallels the SEVEN SEALS. The first seal is the rider on the white horse, the antichrist. This parallels Matthew 24:5
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Then comes the red horse, seal 2. Peace is taken from the earth and they kill one another. This parallels Matthew 24.....nation rising against nation. Then the black horse seal 3........famines in Matthew 24. ETC ETC ETC Every one of the seals matches up to Matthew 24.


Matt 24
9 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.



Matt 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;


16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

So bottom line.......the first seal......the rider on the white horse........the antichrist has not been revealed.....so the first seal is not open. Therefore the who you are talking about is not the people that Jesus was addressing but the people that are around when this stuff happens.


I recommend that you unlearn everything you think you know and start over.
Here in Matthew 24 we can parallel all of the 7 seals.
We can see that immediately after the tribulation God shows up and wrath begins, and yet you can't find many prophecy teachers that can even see that. The tribulation is over when the wrath of God begins. What more proof does anyone need??????????
 
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Acts2:38

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Hello and Thank you for your continued kind and pleasant conversation with me. I hope this day finds you in good health.

I was hoping to not have to dive into the book of Revelation due to the fact many misunderstand it. With that said, let me try to help you understand that the book of Revelation is also events that have already happened, all except the coming of Christ of course. I will explain this later in this post, so for now, let me respond to your last inquiry into finding and explaining biblical truth.


Matt 24
9 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

If you recall, see Matthew 27:44; Matthew 27:51, the earth did shake, the land was darkened, the rocks broke away, the temple was "rent" in two (mountains falling? "rent in Greek schizō = "to split or sever (literally or figuratively):—break, divide, open, rend, make a rent.")
See Matthew 27:44; Matthew 27:51

Look at Mark 15:33, "darkness over the whole land"

Luke 23:44-45, "darkness over ALL the earth....the sun was darkened"

This already happened.

Matt 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

I would like you to look at Daniel 7:13-14. Jesus's favorite self-designation was "Son of Man", which on the surface means that he was human. But by connecting the title with this passage, it also shows that he intended to establish the final kingdom which will outlast all others. The sign was actually a person, "one like a son of man", in Daniel. It seems like the same is true in Matthew 24:30.

The Son of Man is the sign. The "tribes of the earth will mourn" because of His "power and great glory". This mourning is also an allusion back to Daniel 7:15 and Daniel 7:28.

Jesus is making an allusion to Daniel just as He alluded to many other scriptures of the OT. All of which are fulfilled except the second coming.

Lastly, you said to me this:
If you want to know the WHO, you need to know the WHEN.

I know who Jesus is talking to (Matthew 24:1-3), I know when verses 4-35 happen since the time is posted here ---> Matthew 24:34, and now that I explained to you the information above, you should be able to see it is done.

Before I began speaking on Revelation below, I would also like to bring into view...
Jesus, in Matthew 24, is referring to these 1st century people as the generation that is wicked and evil.

Mark 9:19; Matthew 12:34; Matthew 12:45; Matthew 17:17 and Luke 9:41; Luke 11:29.

Mark 9:1 states that the 1st century generation will not die out until the kingdom comes. Do we wish to say there are 2,000 year old people walking the earth now?
Jesus tells the disciples that "this generation" will not pass away in Matthew 24:34.
Acts 2 is when the kingdom finally came, which would still be within that 1 century generations time frame of life when that book was written and events done.

These are some verses that help prove that Jesus is referring to 1st century peoples in Matthew 24:4-35 (hinting at verse 34). How much scripture and correct sentence structure and context must I bring to you before you see the obvious? No insult intended, but a concern I have for you and any others that fall for false doctrines and teachings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revelation is finished. Except for Christs second coming, Revelation is done.

Key words you are missing or overlooked:
Revelation 1:1 (things which must shortly come to pass)
Revelation 1:3 (for the time is at hand)
Revelation 1:9 (I John your brother and companion in TRIBULATION and THE KINGDOM and patience of Jesus Christ)
Revelation 22:6 (shortly be done)
Revelation 22:10 (time is at hand)

The events in Revelation have already happened except, of course, the second coming. There is no denying this. "things which must shortly come to pass" does NOT mean 2,000 year into the future.


Side note I forgot to mention:
Just something else to think about, why would it be necessary to say this?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

If this is talking about the second coming, there would be no need to say a useless thing as "nor ever shall be" because that would be stating an obvious thing IF this is the second coming. It would be like "thanks captain obvious".

If you read the historian and writer Josephus and his book the "Roman-Jewish War", you will find that such atrocities really do not happen like that anymore "nor ever shall" happen anymore.

Conclusion: Matthew 24:4-35 is finished and in the past. Matthew 36 and following is yet to come and show NO signs, warnings, or announcements of the second coming. "like a thief in the night".

Do thieves give you ample warnings and signs? I think not.
 
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DavidPT

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Psalms 102:15

“So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.



Psalms 102:16


“When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.”


When are you implying this is meaning? If we look at the following passage we see this.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It seems to me then, the passage you provided seems like it might be connected with the first coming. And if we look at the next verse in Psalms 102, verse 17, we see this.


Psalms 102:17 He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer.

That seems like something applicable to this age rather than in an age where Christ has already returned and living physically among the inhabitants of the earth. Why would there be prayers of the destitute still occurring in the earth after Christ has returned?
 
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Hello and Thank you for your continued kind and pleasant conversation with me. I hope this day finds you in good health.

I was hoping to not have to dive into the book of Revelation due to the fact many misunderstand it. With that said, let me try to help you understand that the book of Revelation is also events that have already happened, all except the coming of Christ of course. I will explain this later in this post, so for now, let me respond to your last inquiry into finding and explaining biblical truth.




If you recall, see Matthew 27:44; Matthew 27:51, the earth did shake, the land was darkened, the rocks broke away, the temple was "rent" in two (mountains falling? "rent in Greek schizō = "to split or sever (literally or figuratively):—break, divide, open, rend, make a rent.")
See Matthew 27:44; Matthew 27:51

Look at Mark 15:33, "darkness over the whole land"

Luke 23:44-45, "darkness over ALL the earth....the sun was darkened"

This already happened.



I would like you to look at Daniel 7:13-14. Jesus's favorite self-designation was "Son of Man", which on the surface means that he was human. But by connecting the title with this passage, it also shows that he intended to establish the final kingdom which will outlast all others. The sign was actually a person, "one like a son of man", in Daniel. It seems like the same is true in Matthew 24:30.

The Son of Man is the sign. The "tribes of the earth will mourn" because of His "power and great glory". This mourning is also an allusion back to Daniel 7:15 and Daniel 7:28.

Jesus is making an allusion to Daniel just as He alluded to many other scriptures of the OT. All of which are fulfilled except the second coming.

Lastly, you said to me this:


I know who Jesus is talking to (Matthew 24:1-3), I know when verses 4-35 happen since the time is posted here ---> Matthew 24:34, and now that I explained to you the information above, you should be able to see it is done.

Before I began speaking on Revelation below, I would also like to bring into view...
Jesus, in Matthew 24, is referring to these 1st century people as the generation that is wicked and evil.

Mark 9:19; Matthew 12:34; Matthew 12:45; Matthew 17:17 and Luke 9:41; Luke 11:29.

Mark 9:1 states that the 1st century generation will not die out until the kingdom comes. Do we wish to say there are 2,000 year old people walking the earth now?
Jesus tells the disciples that "this generation" will not pass away in Matthew 24:34.
Acts 2 is when the kingdom finally came, which would still be within that 1 century generations time frame of life when that book was written and events done.

These are some verses that help prove that Jesus is referring to 1st century peoples in Matthew 24:4-35 (hinting at verse 34). How much scripture and correct sentence structure and context must I bring to you before you see the obvious? No insult intended, but a concern I have for you and any others that fall for false doctrines and teachings.
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Revelation is finished. Except for Christs second coming, Revelation is done.

Key words you are missing or overlooked:
Revelation 1:1 (things which must shortly come to pass)
Revelation 1:3 (for the time is at hand)
Revelation 1:9 (I John your brother and companion in TRIBULATION and THE KINGDOM and patience of Jesus Christ)
Revelation 22:6 (shortly be done)
Revelation 22:10 (time is at hand)

The events in Revelation have already happened except, of course, the second coming. There is no denying this. "things which must shortly come to pass" does NOT mean 2,000 year into the future.


Side note I forgot to mention:
Just something else to think about, why would it be necessary to say this?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

If this is talking about the second coming, there would be no need to say a useless thing as "nor ever shall be" because that would be stating an obvious thing IF this is the second coming. It would be like "thanks captain obvious".

If you read the historian and writer Josephus and his book the "Roman-Jewish War", you will find that such atrocities really do not happen like that anymore "nor ever shall" happen anymore.

Conclusion: Matthew 24:4-35 is finished and in the past. Matthew 36 and following is yet to come and show NO signs, warnings, or announcements of the second coming. "like a thief in the night".

Do thieves give you ample warnings and signs? I think not.
Hi again, Sorry I have been away.

In your comments regarding the sun being darkened and it's already happened. Not so. The stars did not fall from heaven, so this has not happened

As to your comment about the sign actually being a person you leave out a critical piece of information.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
There was no lightning coming from east to west and all the tribes of the earth didn't mourn as they could not see Jesus.

As to your comment about Revelation being done. When did hail and fire mingled with blood occur that burned up a third part of the trees and a third part of the grass?
When was a great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea and the third part of the sea became blood?
When did a third part of the waters become Wormwood?
When was the bottomless pit opened?
When did the 200,000,000 million come that a third part of men were killed?
When did the 2 witnesses come? That were killed in the street and left to lie there and rose again in the sight of men?

I could go on and on but you should get the gist of it. Most of Revelation has not occurred yet. We are still in the church age.

As to the shortly come to pass comments. No man knows the day nor the hour so John couldn't know. A day is as a thousand years a 1000 years as a day.


 
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Hi again, Sorry I have been away.

In your comments regarding the sun being darkened and it's already happened. Not so. The stars did not fall from heaven, so this has not happened

As to your comment about the sign actually being a person you leave out a critical piece of information.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
There was no lightning coming from east to west and all the tribes of the earth didn't mourn as they could not see Jesus.

As to your comment about Revelation being done. When did hail and fire mingled with blood occur that burned up a third part of the trees and a third part of the grass?
When was a great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea and the third part of the sea became blood?
When did a third part of the waters become Wormwood?
When was the bottomless pit opened?
When did the 200,000,000 million come that a third part of men were killed?
When did the 2 witnesses come? That were killed in the street and left to lie there and rose again in the sight of men?

I could go on and on but you should get the gist of it. Most of Revelation has not occurred yet. We are still in the church age.

As to the shortly come to pass comments. No man knows the day nor the hour so John couldn't know. A day is as a thousand years a 1000 years as a day.


Hello again. It is totally okay. You have a life that you need to attend to. I am glad to have you back, taking your time with me.

You are taking the book of Revelations as all literal. You simply cannot do that. It is code talk, symbolic, that the christians of that time could understand but not those that sought out the christians demise could understand.

The book of Revelation has alluded to the OT scriptures over 340 times and directly pulled from the OT about 390 verses out of the 404 verses in the book. It is clearly a symbolic book. It is stated as a symbolic book in Rev.1:1 "Signifed" (see bottom of post for Greek definition).

Matthew 24 uses such "code" talk. Apocalyptic Language is used here in Matthew 24:29-33. Similar language also used concerning:
  • The destruction of Babylon (Isaiah 13:10)
  • The destruction of Edom (Isaiah 34:4-5)
  • The destruction of Egypt (Ezekiel 32:7-8)
Not to be taken as literal.

I am not sure if I shown this before, but see to this chart brake down of Matthew 24:
Quick helpful reference chart Mat. 24

1. Key Text and The Context

a. "This generation shall not pass" v34 the "time-text" of the chapter

b. "but of that day and hour" v36 the "transition-text" of the chapter

c. The context: Culmination of prophecies and warnings

d. The disciples questions: 24:1-3

2. Signs of the Destruction of Jerusalem: 24:4-35

a. General Signs: 24:4-14

b. Specific Signs: 24:15-28

c. Apocalyptic Language: 24:29-33/ Similar language also used concerning:
i.The destruction of Babylon (Isaiah 13:10)
ii.The destruction of Edom (Isaiah 34:4-5)
iii.The destruction of Egypt (Ezekiel 32:7-8)

3. The End of the World: 24:36 through 25:46

a. Contrast between this (Mat.24:36-25:46) and the former section of Matthew 24 (Mat.24:4-35)

b. Jesus teaches the suddenness of the second coming (like a thief/ no signs, warnings, announcements).

As to the shortly come to pass comments. No man knows the day nor the hour so John couldn't know. A day is as a thousand years a 1000 years as a day.

Key emphasis is that to God, "one day is a thousand and a thousand as one day" but not to humans. God is telling John things in the time frame of humans not God Himself. The book of Revelation is just that, a revealing of what will unfold. And what was to unfold, was to be soon "time is at hand".

So when God, in Rev1:1, is telling John what to write, He is telling John what is going to happen in human time frames, not God time frames. When God is telling John, "must shortly come to pass", God is telling John that in human time frames, it will happen soon.

I've seen this excuse way too many times and it has nothing to do with Revelation. All it is stating is that God is omnipresent. 2 Peter 3:8 is speaking of a different matter. See the context please.

Side notes for your learning:
The entire NT is written in Koine Greek

Revelation = ἀποκάλυψις apokálypsis, ap-ok-al'-oop-sis; from G601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation; used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto withdrawn from view are made visible to all; laying bare, making naked

"Signified" = σημαίνω sēmaínō, say-mah'-ee-no; from σῆμα sēma (a mark; of uncertain derivation); to indicate:—signify; to give a sign, to signify, indicate

"Shortly come to pass" = τάχος táchos, takh'-os; from the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 [en]prefixed (en tachos)) in haste:—quickly, shortly, speedily.

τάχος táchos, takh'-os (shortly come to pass Rev1:1 and Rev.22:6), is the same Greek word as used here:
1 Timothy 3:14 (shortly)
Romans 16:20 (shortly)
Acts 12:7 (quickly); 22:18 (quickly); 25:4 (shortly)
Luke 18:8 (speedily)

It is that same word used. So, if I were to use your excuse and belief with say, Acts 25:4
" But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly (Tachos in Greek) thither."

To you, that would mean in a thousand years, Festus would "depart"?

No. God is showing "His servant John" what will happen "shortly" (tachos), because it will happen soon ("for the time is at hand" Rev 1:3 and Rev 22:10)
 
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A71

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Ginomai means to come into existence. This makes a lot more sense actually than come to pass.

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

  2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
    1. of events
  3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
    1. of men appearing in public
  4. to be made, finished
    1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
  5. to become, be made
 
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