What is the correct denomination or faith?

chilehed · Dec 14, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
But this is 2017. Today, an argument over doctrine will devolve into a Protestant quoting Paul versus you quoting a Church document. The Protestant believes that he has all of the authority. You cannot answer him at all if you do not quote the Bible.

48 direct quotes of the Bible, one quote of the Catechism, and 11 of the Early Church Fathers.

It sure looks like you didn't bother to read it.

chilehed · Dec 14, 2017

MyGivenNameIsKeith said:
Here is a fun list I found concerning a "Church" that would not teach false doctrine.
If the Bible is a Catholic book,

1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).

2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).

3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).

4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).

5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).

6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).

7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).

8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).

9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).

10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).

11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).

12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).

13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).

14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

The more important question is "how do you know that you're not one of those spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16"?

Senkaku · Dec 14, 2017

Apologetic_Warrior said:
We have to consider the context for that verse and the audience. Jesus was addressing the scribes and Pharisees. He charged them with "transgressing" the commandment of God, and explains the hypocrisy of their tradition, of how in a particular detail of their particular tradition contradicted the commandment(s) of God. The emphasis of Jesus is not on traditions, but rather on hypocrisy within tradition. Christians need not fear tradition, for all religions consist of tradition, it is impossible to belong to a religion without at the same time belonging to a tradition. In fact, the Scriptures were passed along from generation to generation through guess what?

the phrase Jesus uses is what im emphasizing, you (the person) make the command of God of NONE EFFECT when you place something before it. Think about that, the Word of God, the commandments of God, as powerful as they are, become nullified when we stand in its way. Jesus admitted something scary here, you see it? on top of that, how can you be so saturated by the word of God and still not follow properly, cause the pharisees had that. no one knew the bible as much as they did and they still couldn't recognize what was in front of them. You see, the word of God is not the problem, our perception of it is. Just like the pharisees, we can blind ourselves to or own little worlds and make the bible say what we want it to say with our denominational filters on and miss the truth, even as it walks in front of us, we can judge it, criticize it and call it blasphemous, just as the pharisees did. I think Christians are too saturated and attached to their denominations, dogma, and traditions to realize what is truth.

Vicomte13 · Dec 14, 2017

chilehed said:
48 direct quotes of the Bible, one quote of the Catechism, and 11 of the Early Church Fathers.

It sure looks like you didn't bother to read it.

If you want your argument to have maximum power, quote Jesus. Just him, nobody else. Quote him for every single point you want to me - and be sure not to ignore any quotes of his that go in a different direction from those. Don't dilute the words spoken by the Son of God with the words of other men, all of whom have less authority.

Stick to Jesus and be complete about it, and your arguments will be impossible for any Christian to refute or ignore.

The problem with using anybody else's words is that people will then be able to do two things:

(1) Quibble with the authority of whoever else you quote. The Early Church Fathers? Sola Scripturalists won't care. Church documents? The fact they are Church documents will automatically disqualify them.

(2) Use somebody else's words, particularly Paul's (because Paul wrote so much, about so many subjects, and is the source of a great variety of different theologies).

The virtue and power in just quoting Jesus is that you remove all of the "Sola Scripturalist" arguments against anything outside of the Bible, and you trump everybody else's words with his. Who will dare to challenge Jesus with anybody else's words?

Your concept of lining up authorities is good, it is good discipline to write that way, but it is wasted effort when you cite authorities that others will not respect.

On the other hand, when you quote Jesus - just him - you present an authority that anybody who calls himself a Christian HAS TO accept and CAN'T argue with, and you will always have the upper hand.

You will also have the upper hand Scripturally, for Jesus says some things that are different from what Paul seems to say, but the fact that it's Jesus - God incarnate - saying it gives the words you are quoting greater authority - there is no higher authority in the Bible than the words of Jesus. Some will argue that other words are EQUAL in authority..."because Bible!" but that looks like frank bibliolatry when someone tries to use "Bible" as an argument to allow some favored apostle or prophet to override Jesus' own direct words.

You will have the upper hand in source quality as well, because Jesus is quoted extensively, he is clearly preaching and not simply writing a letter to some particular person, he generally repeats himself over and over, and he doesn't contradict himself. Nor is he, as Peter says of Paul, "Hard to understand."

Moreover, Jesus takes the LAST word in the Bible. The Bible is a progressive revelation: Noah didn't know as much as Abraham. Abraham wasn't given everything that was given through Moses. The Revelation, at the end, is written after all of the epistles. John is taken up to Heaven, and the future is unveiled. He is also given dictated messages to brings back, and Jesus reiterates the basis by which he will judge people (on their deeds) and lists the sins that will get a man thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The technique of citing authority is good, but to make the strongest argument you have to resist the urge to quote lesser authorities, and just quote Jesus instead. That argument is unanswerable.

chilehed · Dec 14, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
If you want your argument to have maximum power, quote Jesus. Just him, nobody else....Stick to Jesus and be complete about it, and your arguments will be impossible for any Christian to refute or ignore... Jesus says some things that are different from what Paul seems to say, but the fact that it's Jesus - God incarnate - saying it gives the words you are quoting greater authority - there is no higher authority in the Bible than the words of Jesus....

Your strategy is self-defeating. If you don't do anything but quote Jesus you can't make any argument, because the argument you make will be something other than what Jesus said.

The idea that you can say something that makes it impossible for someone to reject your argument is manifest nonsense.

I can't stop someone from clinging to irrational ideas like "ignore most of the historical evidence", "ignore the fact that all of Sacred Scripture is the words of Jesus" or "throw out red herrings rather than rebut rational argumentation" if they insist on doing so. That doesn't relieve me of the obligation to present the truth using sound reasoning.

Senkaku · Dec 14, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
If you want your argument to have maximum power, quote Jesus. Just him, nobody else. Quote him for every single point you want to me - and be sure not to ignore any quotes of his that go in a different direction from those. Don't dilute the words spoken by the Son of God with the words of other men, all of whom have less authority.

Stick to Jesus and be complete about it, and your arguments will be impossible for any Christian to refute or ignore.

The problem with using anybody else's words is that people will then be able to do two things:

(1) Quibble with the authority of whoever else you quote. The Early Church Fathers? Sola Scripturalists won't care. Church documents? The fact they are Church documents will automatically disqualify them.

(2) Use somebody else's words, particularly Paul's (because Paul wrote so much, about so many subjects, and is the source of a great variety of different theologies).

The virtue and power in just quoting Jesus is that you remove all of the "Sola Scripturalist" arguments against anything outside of the Bible, and you trump everybody else's words with his. Who will dare to challenge Jesus with anybody else's words.

Your concept of lining up authorities is good, it is good discipline to write that way, but it is wasted effort when you cite authorities that others will not respect.

On the other hand, when you quote Jesus - just him - you present an authority that anybody who calls himself a Christian HAS TO accept and CAN'T argue with, and you will always have the upper hand.

You will also have the upper hand Scripturally, for Jesus says some things that are different from what Paul seems to say, but the fact that it's Jesus - God incarnate - saying it gives the words you are quoting greater authority - there is no higher authority in the Bible than the words of Jesus. Some will argue that other words are EQUAL in authority..."because Bible!" but that looks like frank bibliolatry when someone tries to use "Bible" as an argument to allow some favored apostle or prophet to override Jesus' own direct words.

You will have the upper hand in source quality as well, because Jesus is quoted extensively, he is clearly preaching and not simply writing a letter to some particular person, he generally repeats himself over and over, and he doesn't contradict himself. Nor is he, as Peter says of Paul, "Hard to understand."

Moreover, Jesus takes the LAST word in the Bible. The Bible is a progressive revelation: Noah didn't know as much as Abraham. Abraham wasn't given everything that was given through Moses. The Revelation, at the end, is written after all of the epistles. John is taken up to Heaven, and the future is unveiled. He is also given dictated messages to brings back, and Jesus reiterates the basis by which he will judge people (on their deeds) and lists the sins that will get a man thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The technique of citing authority is good, but to make the strongest argument you have to resist the urge to quote lesser authorities and just quote Jesus. That argument is unanswerable.

I agree, I understand your point. I feel like most people quote paul before they quote Jesus. How can you understand the letters to the churches if you can't even understand Jesus fully? thats what I feel is happening in Christianity, Jesus is not fully understood and yet we call ourselves Christians. maybe thats why we quote others, maybe its just easy and more comfortable to quote Dr. whoever and Paul because Jesus is just too extreme, too polarizing, too strong and other things. Jesus is so poisonous to our dogmas and doctrines and denominations. example; "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." He calls it sin when you just want to do something before you even do it, hows that for dealing with sin? a rude awakening for people who think they are fine because they never acted anything out. Jesus destroys our foolish beliefs and brings us to truth.

Hammster · Dec 14, 2017

ADMIN HAT ON

Closed for review.

ADMIN HAT OFF

Paidiske · Dec 15, 2017

red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg

MOD HAT ON
This thread has been moved to General Theology, and posts by non-Christians
(and responses to those posts) have been removed.
Please note and abide by the SOP of this forum.
MOD HAT OFF

gym_class_hero · Dec 15, 2017

my favorite denomination is hundreds.....

Vicomte13 · Dec 15, 2017

chilehed said:
If you don't do anything but quote Jesus you can't make any argument, because the argument you make will be something other than what Jesus said.

That doesn't make any sense. Jesus made an argument about everything that matters: he, and he alone, is the lawgiver. We have the words Jesus said, he was clear, and repetitive, getting to the same few points over and over through repetition, example and parable. The entirety of God's law is contained in the words of Jesus, and you don't need any source other than his words to know it completely.

The rest - Peter, Paul, James, Jude and John, and all of the Church documents - this is all examples, applications and explanations. That's fine, but it all of lesser authority, and Sola Scripturalists will not accept any Church document.

They might, some of them, pit Paul against Jesus, but if you stick firmly with Jesus and keep putting out the words of Jesus in answer, they won't hold the field for very long, because they sincerely believe Jesus was God also, and the absurdity of standing against Jesus quickly becomes obvious to them, so if they get started down that path at all, they stop it.

If you're trying to argue with Protestants waving around Catholic Church documents other than the Bible, you're wasting your breath and your time, and you'll end up being bested by their arguments in THEIR eyes.

If you decide to go into their court on their terms, you will be at a real disadvantage if you use the Bible as they do, because Paul's writing and logic are the very bedrock of their religion, but yours is much more based on Jesus and later churchmen whom we treat as having the same authority as Paul. Jesus ends up eclipsed in both the Protestant AND Catholic argument, and the Catholic ends up trying to pit the Church's wisdom against Paul. To a Protestant, defeating that argument is like shooting fish in a barrel: Paul is in the Bible. The later bishops and leaders of the Church are not. Therefore it's authority versus authority.

If, on the other hand, you reach right into the Bible and wield JESUS as you only authority, nothing in the Bible can stand against Jesus other than YHWH, but Jesus came later in time, and Jesus amends some of what YHWH says - and has YHWH's (or El Elyon's) authority to do it. (And no Christian other than a Judaizer will argue that point with you anyway.)

If you focus on Just Jesus, you will find that the Catholic Church actually looks stronger and better and much more biblically based than the Jesus plus later Church documents and wisdom argument that Catholics such as yourself want to make. You are putting the cart before the horse: your interlocutor does not accept that our church has ANY authority, and actually thinks it is quite evil.

But by using Bible Alone, and then sticking to Just Jesus, you discover that the Catholic Church is based almost ENTIRELY on the words of Jesus, with only a few outlying things to criticize (such as the business of calling priest's "father" - a trivial thing that we could easily give up if it would reunite the faith).

One of the most powerful thing that happens is that you discover the flat Biblical references to Purgatory, all of which come from the mouth of Jesus as the word "Gehenna", which is, of course, Jewish Purgatory.

THAT doctrine is said to not be in the Bible - even by Catholics - but it is right out of the mouth of Jesus, and fits seemlessly with one of his most famous parables.

You can't persuade anybody if you won't use authorities they respect to talk with them. But if you do the same sort of thing that you did, but all 30 of your cites are words of Jesus and you do a thorough job, you leave your Christian interlocutor with little to say. What's he going to do, fight with Jesus?

And if you stack his arguments, all rooted in bits and pieces of things, it looks weak compared with 30 successive quotes of Jesus.

You want to argue, and to use scholarship to do it: and all of that is commendable. I don't know why you're kicking so hard at a suggestion to argue in the most powerful way, but just citing God incarnate, who is, after all, the source.

A secular example: Which is a stronger legal brief, a ten page document that only cites the Supreme Court of the US and the Supreme court of the state of the trial for every single legal proposition, only cites majority opinions right on point, or a brief that cites a hodgepodge of state and federal courts at all levels?

The answer is the first, because it is a brief built entirely on the highest authorities that bind the court, and that cannot be answered by referring to rulings by lower courts. Apostles, Old Testament Prophets, and Church canons and doctrines, are all inferior in authority to Jesus, and Jesus gave all of the law and revelation that matters for salvation. If you want to argue - and you do - then why handicap yourself by using inferior authorities and low-grade ore? Stick to Jesus and you become impossible to defeat.

ViaCrucis · Dec 16, 2017

In another thread a somewhat similar kind of question was asked, to which I responded by explaining a bit about my own religious journey, and then offered some of the important questions I had/have in this sort of topic; as tasteless as it might be to copy-and-paste something I wrote before, I think it works here:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had to describe my methodology, insomuch as it was a methodology at all, it would be something like as follows:

1. What is the historic teaching of Christianity? That is, when I investigate the historical record, what are the ideas and teachings that I find?

2. What is the common teaching of Christianity? That is, when I look across the landscape of different Christian denominations/traditions/groups what are the ideas which are held in common, as opposed to ideas which are more peculiar, particular, or idiosyncratic.

3. Where do I find the overlap of what I read in Scripture, see in Christian tradition, and current Christian teaching/practice? That is, when I see Scripture, historic Christians teaching, and the teaching of a church today, are they all ultimately saying the same thing, or different things--I should want them to be saying the same thing instead of different things.

4. Where, ultimately, does my conscience and convictions lead me? At the end of the day I won't be able to violate conscience and conviction, where can I be where my conscience is not violated and my conviction is not compromised?

-CryptoLutheran

Blood Bought 1953 · Dec 16, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
That doesn't make any sense. Jesus made an argument about everything that matters: he, and he alone, is the lawgiver. We have the words Jesus said, he was clear, and repetitive, getting to the same few points over and over through repetition, example and parable. The entirety of God's law is contained in the words of Jesus, and you don't need any source other than his words to know it completely.

The rest - Peter, Paul, James, Jude and John, and all of the Church documents - this is all examples, applications and explanations. That's fine, but it all of lesser authority, and Sola Scripturalists will not accept any Church document.

They might, some of them, pit Paul against Jesus, but if you stick firmly with Jesus and keep putting out the words of Jesus in answer, they won't hold the field for very long, because they sincerely believe Jesus was God also, and the absurdity of standing against Jesus quickly becomes obvious to them, so if they get started down that path at all, they stop it.

If you're trying to argue with Protestants waving around Catholic Church documents other than the Bible, you're wasting your breath and your time, and you'll end up being bested by their arguments in THEIR eyes.

If you decide to go into their court on their terms, you will be at a real disadvantage if you use the Bible as they do, because Paul's writing and logic are the very bedrock of their religion, but yours is much more based on Jesus and later churchmen whom we treat as having the same authority as Paul. Jesus ends up eclipsed in both the Protestant AND Catholic argument, and the Catholic ends up trying to pit the Church's wisdom against Paul. To a Protestant, defeating that argument is like shooting fish in a barrel: Paul is in the Bible. The later bishops and leaders of the Church are not. Therefore it's authority versus authority.

If, on the other hand, you reach right into the Bible and wield JESUS as you only authority, nothing in the Bible can stand against Jesus other than YHWH, but Jesus came later in time, and Jesus amends some of what YHWH says - and has YHWH's (or El Elyon's) authority to do it. (And no Christian other than a Judaizer will argue that point with you anyway.)

If you focus on Just Jesus, you will find that the Catholic Church actually looks stronger and better and much more biblically based than the Jesus plus later Church documents and wisdom argument that Catholics such as yourself want to make. You are putting the cart before the horse: your interlocutor does not accept that our church has ANY authority, and actually thinks it is quite evil.

But by using Bible Alone, and then sticking to Just Jesus, you discover that the Catholic Church is based almost ENTIRELY on the words of Jesus, with only a few outlying things to criticize (such as the business of calling priest's "father" - a trivial thing that we could easily give up if it would reunite the faith).

One of the most powerful thing that happens is that you discover the flat Biblical references to Purgatory, all of which come from the mouth of Jesus as the word "Gehenna", which is, of course, Jewish Purgatory.

THAT doctrine is said to not be in the Bible - even by Catholics - but it is right out of the mouth of Jesus, and fits seemlessly with one of his most famous parables.

You can't persuade anybody if you won't use authorities they respect to talk with them. But if you do the same sort of thing that you did, but all 30 of your cites are words of Jesus and you do a thorough job, you leave your Christian interlocutor with little to say. What's he going to do, fight with Jesus?

And if you stack his arguments, all rooted in bits and pieces of things, it looks weak compared with 30 successive quotes of Jesus.

You want to argue, and to use scholarship to do it: and all of that is commendable. I don't know why you're kicking so hard at a suggestion to argue in the most powerful way, but just citing God incarnate, who is, after all, the source.

A secular example: Which is a stronger legal brief, a ten page document that only cites the Supreme Court of the US and the Supreme court of the state of the trial for every single legal proposition, only cites majority opinions right on point, or a brief that cites a hodgepodge of state and federal courts at all levels?

The answer is the first, because it is a brief built entirely on the highest authorities that bind the court, and that cannot be answered by referring to rulings by lower courts. Apostles, Old Testament Prophets, and Church canons and doctrines, are all inferior in authority to Jesus, and Jesus gave all of the law and revelation that matters for salvation. If you want to argue - and you do - then why handicap yourself by using inferior authorities and low-grade ore? Stick to Jesus and you become impossible to defeat.

Paul,like or not was selected by Jesus to be the messenger to the gentiles....anything and everything he wrote in his letters is God- Breathed.Paul was taught one on one by Jesus for three years in the desert.Paul wrote nothing that was not revealed to him by the Holy Spirit.To ignore Paul is in direct opposition to the Scriptures....” follow me , as I follow Christ “ God bless

Vicomte13 · Dec 16, 2017

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Paul,like or not was selected by Jesus to be the messenger to the gentiles....anything and everything he wrote in his letters is God- Breathed.Paul was taught one on one by Jesus for three years in the desert.Paul wrote nothing that was not revealed to him by the Holy Spirit.To ignore Paul is in direct opposition to the Scriptures....” follow me , as I follow Christ “ God bless

Show me where Jesus said that every word Paul said is God-breathed?

Truth Lover · Dec 16, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
Part of the problem is that while our leadership is indeed old and continuous, it has sinned horrendously many times over the course of that history. The bloodshed and horror of the wars of the Reformation was not simply the fault of the Catholics - there were Protestant mass- killers also - but they perpetrated much horror. Before that, in the Middle Ages, witches were burnt. St Joan of Arc is canonized for the messages she carried from God, but her life was ended by burning at orders of a Church court in Rouen. A Catholic Bishop sent a Saint of God to die hideously in the flames upon conviction for witchcraft. And of course in our day the rape of boys - so very many boys - and the apparent coverups by higher clergy...this is the latest in a long parade of horrible sins, crimes and abuses by the leadership that traces its Apostolic succession back to Peter and Jesus. Yes, the Church is authentic and really old, but between here and there there has been sufficient bad behavior to reduce the credibility of claims that the sheer age of the leadership proves either it’s rectitude or its holiness.

I disagree. Even though many church leaders are sinners, they still taught the same dogmas and doctrine that was passed down from 33 AD. Therefore, if we want to know the Gospel truth, The Catholic Church is where you find it. Please don't ignore the more than 10,000 saints the Catholic Church venerates. They far outnumber the bad leaders. The church is for sinners too.
Jesus had his Judas. You can't say that what Jesus taught is invalid because of Judas.

friend of · Dec 16, 2017

Jesus is the way the truth the life. Jesus is the narrow gate. JESUS is reality. Embellishment from man is not. I would encourage you to find fellowship with those that are determined to understand and apply the Bible to their lives. Jesus is the Word made flesh. The Bible is like Jesus' diary. We come to know our Lord thru reading scripture amongst one another.

May the Lord shine on you this day

Blood Bought 1953 · Dec 16, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
Show me where Jesus said that every word Paul said is God-breathed?

I don’t know.....somewhere in the back!

Vicomte13 · Dec 16, 2017

Truth Lover said:
I disagree. Even though many church leaders are sinners, they still taught the same dogmas and doctrine that was passed down from 33 AD. Therefore, if we want to know the Gospel truth, The Catholic Church is where you find it. Please don't ignore the more than 10,000 saints the Catholic Church venerates. They far outnumber the bad leaders. The church is for sinners too.
Jesus had his Judas. You can't say that what Jesus taught is invalid because of Judas.

Nor do I say that the Catholic Church is invalid because of its crimes. I'm a Catholic myself. But what I do say is that for those who are not Catholics, the record of crime, bloodshed and rape stands there like a stone wall, blocking their ability to trust, or overlook. As Catholics, we have to struggle to come to grips with the evils of the Church, and the process of doing it makes us sadder, wiser, and more caution of simply trusting the clergy without critical thought. But we're already within the camp. To those outside it, there is no reason to give the Church the benefit of the doubt, just as we have very little tolerance or patience for Muslim apologists' explanations of the violence by some Muslims. We don't shed our deep skepticism to step inside and see what they believe and how it makes sense from within; neither will non-Catholics do so for our Church. They see the evil and the bad of the history and the present, and that is where their mind closes.

To keep it open, we have to use the things that THEY respect: the Bible. But we have to argue from the Bible OUR unique way, which is compelling (from the standpoint of logic and reading comprehension), but which is very different from the way they handle the same texts. THAT offers a teachable moment. Calling upon authorities they don't, and won't, recognize as authorities is a fool's errand. They will not follow, or understand.

MyGivenNameIsKeith · Dec 16, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
Show me where Jesus said that every word Paul said is God-breathed?

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Tim. 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word "inspired" is θεόπνευστος theopneustos. It means God-breathed.
Peter recognized Paul's letters as Scripture.
Though Paul recognized at times when he did not speak FOR the Lord...
2 Corinthians 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
...He still spoke as he was moved by the Spirit, in power, in truth, in the effort of doing what the Lord Jesus had him to do according to the authority given him.
To say that what Paul spoke was not God-breathed would be blaspheme the Holy Ghost, the Spirit through which he spoke.
Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Blood Bought 1953 · Dec 17, 2017

MyGivenNameIsKeith said:
1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Tim. 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word "inspired" is θεόπνευστος theopneustos. It means God-breathed.
Peter recognized Paul's letters as Scripture.
Though Paul recognized at times when he did not speak FOR the Lord...
2 Corinthians 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
...He still spoke as he was moved by the Spirit, in power, in truth, in the effort of doing what the Lord Jesus had him to do according to the authority given him.
To say that what Paul spoke was not God-breathed would be blaspheme the Holy Ghost, the Spirit through which he spoke.
Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

...that line I used——” somewhere in the back “ is an old joke from the Simpsons.Hope somebody enjoyed it! Your response was excellent and you put a lot more info out there than I would have. I am a lazy man....lol.Here is the only thing that I would add....every single word in the Scriptures is “ God Breathed”—-The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, the men that put pen to paper where secretaries. Thank you Keith for helping me make my case. God bless

MyGivenNameIsKeith · Dec 17, 2017

Be careful not to be lazy, seeing that you know better. I myself cannot say that I am excused in the matter, for at times I too am lazy. It does not become us, nor glorify the Lord, to answer according to our own understanding, or stop short of fully contemplating something, and being diligent about answering it to a full degree as to the full knowledge and power given us by the Spirit that dwells within.
James 4:16-17 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
But on the whole of the matter, I do not regard you as an enemy, I warn you as my brother.
(2 Thessalonians 3:15)

For your enjoyment -- The Simpsons

A Bible Lesson
Lisa: "Boy, mom sure will be happy you won 50 dollars."
Homer : "You'd think that wouldn't you? But you see, Lisa, your mother has this crazy idea that gambling is wrong. Even though they say it's OK in the bible."
Lisa: "Really? Where?"
Homer: "Uhh...somewhere in the back."

What is the correct denomination or faith?

Veteran

Veteran

Shatter the Illusion

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Shatter the Illusion

Psalm 144:1

Clara bonam audax

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Confessional Lutheran

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Well-Known Member

Active Member

A private in Gods army

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Well-Known Member

Similar threads