I think it has something to do with dimensions. If, instead of the word 'Trinity' I used the word 'hyper-God' would that make more sense?
Think of a cube. The cube has width, length and depth. Now think of a God - the God has Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
What is the evidence for the two powers in heaven (AKA Two YHWYs) from the Old Testament and intertestimental times?The Messiah Yehowshuwa (True Hebrew name) said the greatest commandment is to Love Yehowah his Father with all our hearts mind and soul. Many people now say that Jesus is God.
Think the point of an "Apologetics" forum is to give a defense for one's Christian truth claims.No, the point of this thread is the OP's heretical denial of the deity of Christ, not that you disagree with word "love".
There are not two YHWHs. Scripture makes that abundantly clear.What is the evidence for the two powers in heaven (AKA Two YHWYs) from the Old Testament and intertestimental times?
IN Jesus's day through to the early second century the Jewish scholars had the concept of two powers in heaven.
Sure. I like another analogy better: water. It can come in the form of vapor, ice or liquid.
Think the point of an "Apologetics" forum is to give a defense for one's Christian truth claims.
Thus reserving the ad hominem, "Heretic," for the other forums.
Actually, it works quite well at the triple-point.It's not a great analogy, actually, since it kind of reflects the non-Trinitarian concept of modalism.
Wow, false!Clarifying here: when a Christian says "Jesus is the Son of God" and acknowledge His divinity, that's different than saying "Jesus is the Father"-- He's not the Father. He's the Son. They are two different divine persons in one God.
And to address your title question: majority of Christians to pray to the Father, and worship the Father (in the name of the Son).
Of course. I just didn't talk about the Holy Spirit in my previous post because the question was focused on the Father and Son.Wow, false!
God is three persons!
And the majority of Christians worship all three.
And to refuse to worship any of the persons is to misunderstand the nature of the God of the Bible.
Since the Nicene Creed this has been settled.
Fair enough.Of course. I just didn't talk about the Holy Spirit in my previous post because the question was focused on the Father and Son.
Does any of this have any bearing on ones salvation....Or is it just another dividing mechanism ?Fair enough.
But I wonder if we have a univocal meaning when talking about God, and the three persons of the Trinity.
I have engaged Mormons for over 25 years on this subject and they find One God revealed in three persons (orthodox Theology) to be false.
I have read both the, Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price. Below is an excerp of the view of the Trinity by Mormons, including quotes from Joseph Smith. If true then this is not the historic Christian understanding, and you use of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only sounds similar but bares no resemblance to the Christian concept of the Trinity.
"These three Gods form the Godhead, which holds the keys of power over the universe” (552). Joseph Smith ridiculed the Trinity: “Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization…. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372). Ironically, Smith’s statement here, spoken in an 1844 sermon, flatly contradicts what he said in his 1830 “translation” of the Book of Mormon: “Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God” (Alma 11:44). Mormons also claim that the doctrine of the Trinity originated from Christianity in its “Great Apostasy,” as a false doctrine that was not faithful to the Bible. In actuality, the doctrine of the Trinity is a biblically-based doctrine that originated from the early church’s faithful reflection on Scripture." (The Mormon View of the Trinity:The Bottom-Line Guide to Mormonism, Part 4. By: Robert M. Bowman Jr.
August 26, 2013)
I don't want to put words in your mouth however. If you don't share the Mormon view of the Godhead then by all means help us understand where you reject those views.
Hmm?Does any of this have any bearing on ones salvation....Or is it just another dividing mechanism ?
I have no opinion on which view is right or wrong....Would this be an issue for me? Should i be reviewing all sides, picking one and then standing on it to ensure Im in the right group before His return?
What about serving the God that has revealed Himself to you? How can you go wrong with that?Hmm?
If I say "God" but I believe in a Hindu God where there are 300+ million gods are we talking about the same thing?
What if I am talking about a deistic "God" then there is no salvation.
What if I am using "God" in the sense of the early Sabellians? Then I will spend my life trying to please "God" through my works and will reject the cross and the gospel message.
If I define God the way the Gnostics did then I am not in need of salvation as my earthy body by nature can't be redeemed only my spirit.
John refers yo these equivocations as "False Christ's" "Spirit of Error" " Spirit of AntiChrist!"
Do I want to be so careless with the gospel and the scriptures when so many disciples have written their testemonies in blood? When so many disciples hav
So I don't want to go overboard on my response. It seems that we go too far in evangelical circles and certainly fundamentalist one in setting up and maintaining boundaries on who gets to call themselves "Christians."What about serving the God that has revealed Himself to you? How can you go wrong with that?
Many paint a picture or image of God from the writings and descriptions in the bible...and then worship the image. The pharisee knew the scriptures inside and out and felt they were worshiping the living God.....anyone who told them otherwise were blasphemers.
It is important, indeed, to know who we server?
Just clarifying things here (cause there is MUCH misunderstanding on both sides):Fair enough.
But I wonder if we have a univocal meaning when talking about God, and the three persons of the Trinity.
I have engaged Mormons for over 25 years on this subject and they find One God revealed in three persons (orthodox Theology) to be false..
I posted clear references from the Mormon sources including its founder suggesting otherwise.Just clarifying things here (cause there is MUCH misunderstanding on both sides):
LDS and Athanasian Christians both believe:
The Father is 100% divine.
The Son of God, Jesus Christ is 100% divine.
The Holy Spirit is 100% divine.
The Father, Son, and Spirit are all without beginning nor end. None of them is a “creation”.
The Father is not the Son, nor vice verse. Neither of them are the Spirit.
The Father, Son, and Spirit together are 1 God.
The difference comes in:
LDS believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through unity.
Athanasian Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through co-substantiation.
There is much misunderstand on of LDS beliefs from Athanasian Christians. Likewise, LDS frequently misunderstand Athanasian beliefs-- in my observations* >50% of LDS mistake Athanasian beliefs for modalism. This of course is inaccurate, and shows how much we all need to learn and really listen to each other.
*Disclaimer: this is my observations, not a formal scientific survey.
LDS aren't Athanasian Christians, I just explained that, highlighting the similarities and differences for you. Neither Athanasian Christians or LDS are polytheists and it's quite offensive to say that (as I'm sure you've likewise heard that accusation from Muslims too).I posted clear references from the Mormon sources including its founder suggesting otherwise.
Please provides references from LDS where they retract their position on the Trinity, and their polytheistic nature of the Godhead held since the 1830s.
Please remove "Mormon" as your denomination descriptor!LDS aren't Athanasian Christians, I just explained that, highlighting the similarities and differences for you. Neither Athanasian Christians or LDS polytheists and it's quite offensive to say that (as I'm sure you've likewise heard that accusation from Muslims too).
(PS- if you want to continue this conversation, another venue would be a good idea).