Truth7t7

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I am still waiting to hear somebody who believes that there will be no millennium (amillennialist)...... explain to me:

Isaiah 2:3
Isaiah 42:4
Isaiah 61:5 Isaiah 61:6
Zechariah 8:23
Zechariah 14:16
Habakkuk 2:14

Surely you have an explanation for these verses...... they are in your Bible ..... do you simply ignore them as if they were not there ?

I would love to hear what you think they mean...... and unless all of you are amillennialists ...... there are probably others reading our thread that would like to know what they mean also.
Matthew 25:31-46 shows that at the return of Jesus Christ the final judgment, eternal kingdom takes place.

There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.
 
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seventysevens

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There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.
False .There will be earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming , you continue to delete the scripture that proves your error .
 
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BABerean2

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False .There will be earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming , you continue to delete the scripture that proves your error .

How are your mortals going to survive the "flaming fire"?


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


.
 
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seventysevens

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How are your mortals going to survive the "flaming fire"?


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.
Your continued ignoring of the scriptural text that has been given to you by many people many times but you reject the scripture of Jesus . telling you that there will be humans on earth after the 1000 years that satan is locked away in the pit , but those that are human will be on earth , satan has already deceived you , your misunderstanding of scripture plagues you . it does not matter if you post the entire bible in your post it still says that after 1000 years satan will be loosed to deceive people , the immortal cannot be deceived proving that they will be mortal humans
 
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DavidPT

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How are your mortals going to survive the "flaming fire"?


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


.


Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

Revelation 19:21 is apparently the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4. Revelation 19:21 involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 appears to be in preperation of the following in Isaiah 2:4, and that these verses indicate---and they shall burn them with fire seven years. That has to mean once Gog and his multitude are given unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. When did Revelation 19:21 indicate that happens again? Was it not as of the 2nd coming?

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Once Revelation 19:21 has been fulfilled, the text in Ezekiel 39:12 indicates---And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.



In light of all the above, how and why? If the entire planet goes up in flames like you apparently believe, why burn weapons for 7 years, why didn't the weapons simply go up in flames with the rest of the planet? Why bury the remains for 7 months in order to cleanse the land if land on the entire planet was engulfed in flames? And finally, how are birds of every sort, and the beasts of the field, expected to devour these dead bodies if the entire planet has gone up in flames?

And you are trying to be logical here with your post? If you are trying to be logical, why are you ignoring Scriptures that apparently prove you wrong? Maybe all of the above doesn't prove there might be mortals remaining on the earth following the 2nd coming, but it does at least seem to prove that it is ludicrous to assume the entire planet and everyone on it gets burned up alive once the 2nd coming happens. So if you are wrong about that part, maybe there are some other things you are wrong about as well. Maybe you're also wrong about no mortals surviving the 2nd coming.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hebrews 11 shows the remnant "Elect" church, those whom God Foreknew and were chosen.

Appears you disregard the remnant "Church"and want to make two different groups of people saved by grace?

Those that receive Jesus Christ have inherited the promises and covenants, they are children of the promised seed.

Hi Truth,

You need to read the scripture a bit closer there bro, I believe.

`And these (OT saints of the promise), having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us....`(Heb. 11: 39 & 40)

Two distinct groups there - 1. The OT saints and 2. The Body of Christ.

Now you may well ask, `Why do we have a better inheritance than the OT saints? What have we done to deserve that?` And that would be a very, very important question for it gets to the heart of the matter.

All groups are saved by the Lord`s sacrifice as we all well know, and not one of them/us are worthy for anything. However, it is only, yes only the Body of Christ, those believers who have died to self and have become partakers of the very divine nature of Christ, (2 Peter 1: 4). Those believers will have the `high calling` that the Apostle Paul was talking about. (Phil. 3: 14)

And this is only possible because Christ`s divine nature could not be given prior to His ascension to the Father`s right hand where the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to bring the very divine nature to us. This was NOT possible prior to this time.

Marilyn.





 
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BABerean2

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Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

Revelation 19:21 is apparently the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4. Revelation 19:21 involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 appears to be in preperation of the following in Isaiah 2:4, and that these verses indicate---and they shall burn them with fire seven years. That has to mean once Gog and his multitude are given unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. When did Revelation 19:21 indicate that happens again? Was it not as of the 2nd coming?

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Once Revelation 19:21 has been fulfilled, the text in Ezekiel 39:12 indicates---And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.



In light of all the above, how and why? If the entire planet goes up in flames like you apparently believe, why burn weapons for 7 years, why didn't the weapons simply go up in flames with the rest of the planet? Why bury the remains for 7 months in order to cleanse the land if land on the entire planet was engulfed in flames? And finally, how are birds of every sort, and the beasts of the field, expected to devour these dead bodies if the entire planet has gone up in flames?

And you are trying to be logical here with your post? If you are trying to be logical, why are you ignoring Scriptures that apparently prove you wrong? Maybe all of the above doesn't prove there might be mortals remaining on the earth following the 2nd coming, but it does at least seem to prove that it is ludicrous to assume the entire planet and everyone on it gets burned up alive once the 2nd coming happens. So if you are wrong about that part, maybe there are some other things you are wrong about as well. Maybe you're also wrong about no mortals surviving the 2nd coming.


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
(This verse proves that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.)


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.



Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
 
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Stephen Mendes

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OK...... now truth7t7 merely gives me a passage from Matthew and the statement that 'There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.'

and BABerean2 gives me a whole lot of passages from Revelation and one from Hebrews.

So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?

BUT.... I on the other hand will not resort to their tactics by continuing to pour on more scriptures that I know they cannot or will not touch..... instead....

I will explain the proper interpretation of the Revelation, Hebrews and Matthew passages that they have chosen to use..... in my subsequent postings.

Since they continually refuse to engage any passages I give them..... I will expound and explain their passages and in so doing, the error in their Biblical interpretation will become apparent to you.

I do not do this for them.... because I fully expect them to protest .... and hurl more verses that they think suit their purpose.....

The reason I will take the time to explain and expound the passages is for others in the future who will read this thread and perhaps those that are reading right now but not commenting.

In all forums there are far more people reading that writing.... lots of people following but not contributing.

These will perhaps not be fully acquainted with the history of pre-millenialism versus amillennialism versus post-millennialism.....

I note with interest that there are "safe houses" on this site for both pre-millennialism and amillennialism which are now the competing views (post-millenialism having fallen out of favor.... or should I say been discredited by world events).

I do not need a 'safe house' ...... I am fully able to show from the scriptures the fallacy of the amillennial idea..... and what's more I can do it from the amillennialists 'favorite' verses..... I don't expect them to change their minds.... but I do know that others who are willing to objectively look at this will definitely be more inclined to go with the pre-millenial view once all the evidence has been examined.

I did Eschatology at Bible School and received a certificate in it..... having read numerous texts and debated this on other occasions I will do what I can in here as time allows (this could take months or even years if I go into the Hebrew and Greek... how deep down the 'rabbit hole' do you want to go ?).....

In earlier postings I had appealed to the more important Christian discipline of LIVING the Word.... rather than debating.... discussing.... arguing .... over the Word.

I assure you that 90% or more of the 'true' church of Jesus Christ .... the Bride of Christ.... know nothing of these eschatological and doctrinal contradictions..... they may not even be aware of the doctrines of the church they attended while in the flesh..... simple, humble souls who LIVED the Word totally surrendered to the Savior.

Nevertheless 'although not many wise, mighty, etc. are called' (1 Corinthians 1:26 ) ...... to those that are called, He yet grants even more wisdom and insight as they are able to bear it...... we did not make ourselves so there is nothing inherently wrong with being wise or talented.... but we must use these gifts to His Glory upon the earth..... so think of it not as 'my viewpoint' .... because it was only after I examined 'all sides to this' in light of the Word that I took any viewpoint at all.... originally I knew nothing of all this.

I am nothing but dust..... God must be Glorified in all that I do....

When I first read the Bible from cover to cover as a teenager...... nobody had yet impressed upon me all their various 'doctrines'...... I did not read it with any pre-suppositions.... concordances.... commentaries..... and it was an American Standard Version with no marginal notes.... references .... or maps and added stuff.

I read it as I would read any other book about which I knew NOTHING..... but I always preceded my reading with the prayer 'LORD this is YOUR BOOK please reveal to me out of it what you have to say to me'..... I did this because my mother, a simple humble woman, told me that was what I should pray before reading it.

Since I have been blessed with an almost photographic memory and a vivid imagination.... many times in later years when trying to decide concerning doctrines and dogma..... I have returned to that foundation..... what was the sense of it... when I read it with no preconceived ideas.... and only a simple child's prayer asking GOD to instruct me from HIS BOOK
 
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seventysevens

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OK...... now truth7t7 merely gives me a passage from Matthew and the statement that 'There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.'and BABerean2 gives me a whole lot of passages from Revelation and one from Hebrews.So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?
It is their norm , they have been asked many many times to offer their interpretation and explain in their own words , but they refuse and simply post most scriptures with no explanation ., even posting scriptures that have no bearing or relevance to the topic in discussion ,
 
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BABerean2

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So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?

From your Blog...

"One of my greatest problems accepting the amillennial arguments are the many passages in prophecy from Isaiah, Ezekiel and others that indicate a marvelous future of an EARTHLY kingdom in which not only will the Jews fulfill their God given function… but Jesus Christ will be acknowledged as the supreme ruler of all the nations.
Particularly consider that the second coming of Jesus Christ will be with power and great glory…… if this ushers in the ‘new heaven and new earth’ i.e. the ‘eternal’ state as amillennialists believe …… what do we do with all those unfulfilled prophetic passages that refer to Israel and the Jewish remnant ?…. also I do not find the concept of ‘nations’ in the ‘eternal state’ to be too convincing….. ‘nations’ is an EARTHLY concept that agrees with present world reality.
Amillennialists claim that ALL prophetic passages referring to the Jewish nation have either been already fulfilled or abrogated due to their sinful behavior….. to me that stands in contradiction to how God operates…. the sin of man is never allowed to defeat the Word of God when He proclaims something or makes a promise ….. look at Abraham as an example, God fulfilled His Word exactly even though Abraham did foolishness in listening to Sarah in the matter of Hagar and Ishmael.
The Jews have constantly rebelled against their God ordained function since the days of Moses…. and have suffered greatly for their rebellion unto this day…. but God plainly states that He WILL be glorified in them….. of necessity, the prophecy must come to pass that Christ rules not just one earthly kingdom, but the entire planet…… Isaiah 2:3 and 60:3 , Micah 4:2, Zechariah 8:22 and 14:16,.
Nobody can tell me these passages have already been fulfilled…. and it is clear to me that they have not been ‘set-aside’ either… because the purposes of God are not ‘set-aside’ by the behavior of man, particularly when God makes UNCONDITIONAL statements about the matter."

Your starting point above is the Jewish nation.
Therefore, you are viewing Revelation chapter 20 through the telescope you have created which is looking for the Jewish nation in other passages.


We are using a different telescope.
We are starting on the road to Emmaus with the risen Savior, who said that the whole Bible is about Him, instead of the Jewish nation.


Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 
Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 
Luk 24:27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Notice above professor that He did not say "some" of the prophets. He said "all".

Our telescope contains two lenses. We are looking through the clear eyes of the New Testament writers in order to understand the less clear passages of the Old Testament writers.
By using both lenses, it has brought the Bible into sharp focus upon the Messiah who bought us with His Blood at Calvary.


When you see the words "Jerusalem" or "Zion" you see the one on this rotten, sin-cursed word, but we see the one found in Hebrews 11:16, and Hebrews 12:22-24.

Do we see the Jewish nation in Revelation chapter 20 or do we see Jesus Christ?

Who is the messenger that bound "the strong man" at Calvary?

Mat_12:29  Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


Col 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 


Is Satan bound with a chain made out of steel, or is it a chain made of the blood of Jesus?

There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.

The first resurrection found in John chapter 5 is at John 5:24.
It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead that occurs upon faith in Christ.


The second resurrection in John chapter 5 is found at John 5:27-30.
It is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:18, which you have so far attempted to ignore.



As for your carnal Jewish 1,000 years...

Are you going to tell us that Christ will rule over a world where sin and death remain after His Second Coming, even though He defeated both sin and death at the Cross?

Are you going to tell us that the lion and the lamb will lay down together, but the lamb will be plucked up and have its throat cut for "memorial" sacrifices, by your Jewish nation?

Are you going to tell us that even though your mortals live to great age some of them will still die during this time?
Therefore, are you going to tell us that Jesus Christ, the one who defeated sin and death at Calvary, will be officiating funeral services for these dead mortals during this time?


Are you going to tell us where their souls go, since Christ is on earth?

.
 
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Truth7t7

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OK...... now truth7t7 merely gives me a passage from Matthew and the statement that 'There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.'

and BABerean2 gives me a whole lot of passages from Revelation and one from Hebrews.

So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?

BUT.... I on the other hand will not resort to their tactics by continuing to pour on more scriptures that I know they cannot or will not touch..... instead....

I will explain the proper interpretation of the Revelation, Hebrews and Matthew passages that they have chosen to use..... in my subsequent postings.

Since they continually refuse to engage any passages I give them..... I will expound and explain their passages and in so doing, the error in their Biblical interpretation will become apparent to you.

I do not do this for them.... because I fully expect them to protest .... and hurl more verses that they think suit their purpose.....

The reason I will take the time to explain and expound the passages is for others in the future who will read this thread and perhaps those that are reading right now but not commenting.

In all forums there are far more people reading that writing.... lots of people following but not contributing.

These will perhaps not be fully acquainted with the history of pre-millenialism versus amillennialism versus post-millennialism.....

I note with interest that there are "safe houses" on this site for both pre-millennialism and amillennialism which are now the competing views (post-millenialism having fallen out of favor.... or should I say been discredited by world events).

I do not need a 'safe house' ...... I am fully able to show from the scriptures the fallacy of the amillennial idea..... and what's more I can do it from the amillennialists 'favorite' verses..... I don't expect them to change their minds.... but I do know that others who are willing to objectively look at this will definitely be more inclined to go with the pre-millenial view once all the evidence has been examined.

I did Eschatology at Bible School and received a certificate in it..... having read numerous texts and debated this on other occasions I will do what I can in here as time allows (this could take months or even years if I go into the Hebrew and Greek... how deep down the 'rabbit hole' do you want to go ?).....

In earlier postings I had appealed to the more important Christian discipline of LIVING the Word.... rather than debating.... discussing.... arguing .... over the Word.

I assure you that 90% or more of the 'true' church of Jesus Christ .... the Bride of Christ.... know nothing of these eschatological and doctrinal contradictions..... they may not even be aware of the doctrines of the church they attended while in the flesh..... simple, humble souls who LIVED the Word totally surrendered to the Savior.

Nevertheless 'although not many wise, mighty, etc. are called' (1 Corinthians 1:26 ) ...... to those that are called, He yet grants even more wisdom and insight as they are able to bear it...... we did not make ourselves so there is nothing inherently wrong with being wise or talented.... but we must use these gifts to His Glory upon the earth..... so think of it not as 'my viewpoint' .... because it was only after I examined 'all sides to this' in light of the Word that I took any viewpoint at all.... originally I knew nothing of all this.

I am nothing but dust..... God must be Glorified in all that I do....

When I first read the Bible from cover to cover as a teenager...... nobody had yet impressed upon me all their various 'doctrines'...... I did not read it with any pre-suppositions.... concordances.... commentaries..... and it was an American Standard Version with no marginal notes.... references .... or maps and added stuff.

I read it as I would read any other book about which I knew NOTHING..... but I always preceded my reading with the prayer 'LORD this is YOUR BOOK please reveal to me out of it what you have to say to me'..... I did this because my mother, a simple humble woman, told me that was what I should pray before reading it.

Since I have been blessed with an almost photographic memory and a vivid imagination.... many times in later years when trying to decide concerning doctrines and dogma..... I have returned to that foundation..... what was the sense of it... when I read it with no preconceived ideas.... and only a simple child's prayer asking GOD to instruct me from HIS BOOK
Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the holy angels, the nations are gathered before throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom" is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

Pretty simple Steve, at the return of Jesus Christ, The "Final Judgment" "Eternal Life" "Eternal Kingdom" takes place, eternity begins.

There will be no temporary 1000 year earthly kingdom, with mortal humans present after the return of Jesus Christ.
 
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Truth7t7

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Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

Revelation 19:21 is apparently the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4. Revelation 19:21 involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 appears to be in preperation of the following in Isaiah 2:4, and that these verses indicate---and they shall burn them with fire seven years. That has to mean once Gog and his multitude are given unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. When did Revelation 19:21 indicate that happens again? Was it not as of the 2nd coming?

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Once Revelation 19:21 has been fulfilled, the text in Ezekiel 39:12 indicates---And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.



In light of all the above, how and why? If the entire planet goes up in flames like you apparently believe, why burn weapons for 7 years, why didn't the weapons simply go up in flames with the rest of the planet? Why bury the remains for 7 months in order to cleanse the land if land on the entire planet was engulfed in flames? And finally, how are birds of every sort, and the beasts of the field, expected to devour these dead bodies if the entire planet has gone up in flames?

And you are trying to be logical here with your post? If you are trying to be logical, why are you ignoring Scriptures that apparently prove you wrong? Maybe all of the above doesn't prove there might be mortals remaining on the earth following the 2nd coming, but it does at least seem to prove that it is ludicrous to assume the entire planet and everyone on it gets burned up alive once the 2nd coming happens. So if you are wrong about that part, maybe there are some other things you are wrong about as well. Maybe you're also wrong about no mortals surviving the 2nd coming.

Dave Ezekiel 39:23-29 clearly shows the event of chapter 39 is in relationship to Israel and the "Babylonian Captivity" 536BC

Verse 23 they went into the captivity

Verse 25 they are brought out of the captivity

Verse 27 they are brought out of the enemies land

You will now resort to history books trying to establish a war with weapons being burnt for seven months?

Gods words are very clear its the Babylonian captivity, and Israels return from the enemies land, "Fulfilled"!
 
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Stephen Mendes

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It is their norm , they have been asked many many times to offer their interpretation and explain in their own words , but they refuse and simply post most scriptures with no explanation ., even posting scriptures that have no bearing or relevance to the topic in discussion ,

Hello seventysevens,

Thank you for joining the discussion..... I am glad you have made this observation and I am sure others who are reading but not posting are also coming to this same conclusion...... I attempt to discuss certain specific verses..... and they come back with totally unrelated Scripture and without showing how it applies to what I have written.

Anybody who reads this thread..... whether now or in the future..... can easily see this..... the record speaks for itself much louder than anything that I or they have actually said.

I am perfectly willing to explain the real meaning of their passages..... looking at the context..... going back to the root meaning of the Greek or Hebrew words if required IN SEARCH OF A REASONABLE EXPLANATION THAT DOES NOT VIOLATE OTHER SCRIPTURES..... I did such exegesis with Matthew 21:43 and absolutely NOBODY challenged or even noticed that post...... just went on and on throwing up other scriptures with no attempt to reconcile them.... because of our universal, fundamental conviction that the Word does not contradict itself (it may only 'appear' to do so on the surface.... but as we really get into it such apparent contradiction is readily resolved) ..... this may be entirely intentional on God's part..... for He has said 'that those who seek Him must do so with their whole heart' (Jeremiah 29:13)...... and the Word is a 'two-edged sword' which will cut those who use it improperly.

If we really RESPECT the Word we will not be satisfied with 'verses that seem to contradict each other' but we will harmonize all of Scripture in such a manner that everything can be explained...... the principles we use to exegete the passages must be consistent ..... we cannot choose one method in one place and another method somewhere else... otherwise it becomes totally arbitrary... and we cannot tell what it sayeth.

The problem with amillennial theology, eschatology and soteriology is that there is not this bedrock foundation of logical hermeneutics .... and as a result of this ..... there is literally confusion in the amillennialist camp..... as many 'interpretations' as they are people doing the interpreting.... and the absolute impossibility of rationally explaining large chunks of the Word.... so they are simply avoided in the hope that the people they are trying to 'convert' don't even know of their existence..... and since most people have never actually gone through the entire Bible in SEQUENCE and/or REMEMBERED what they read ..... these YOUTUBE videos 'explaining' the so-called flaws of sound church teachings find a ready audience and host of blind followers..... who love the sensational aspect of ......"you have been lied to all your life.... what you think is true is all wrong" ..... do you know how many millions swallow that .... hook, line and sinker ?

There has been a massive upsurge in 'conspiracy theories' and 'hidden knowledge' videos by people looking to cash-in on Youtube popularity by capturing the attention of a gullible public..... I am amazed at what people are willing to 'believe'.

It's 'open season' on sound doctrine my dear brother.

For the persons holding to the amillennialist position... consider this .... there are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 318 references in the New Testament to the promise of an earthly kingdom with a literal Messiah ruling the world from His throne in Jerusalem.

That's a lot of verses to reconcile with your 'favorites'...... so get cracking and I look forward to reading some really creative 'explanations' ...... that will keep this thread going for the next 3 years.

Have a wonderful day everybody..... I love all of ya ..... whether readers of posters..... controversial or otherwise.
 
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Stephen Mendes

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So that's great Truth7t7.....

So start explaining the passage in Revelation chapter 20 where Satan is bound for a time (oops... it actually SAYS a thousand years)..... and then released again for a season to go out and deceive the people once again.

Now we know that Satan has never been bound up to now..... so it must be future.... if it was so simple as you say..... what the point of letting him out again..... and who are those people that he is going out to deceive once he is let out ?

And please start explaining those 2,000+ passages throughout the entire Bible that I mentioned in my last post.

You can start with the verses I mentioned in post #138
 
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Truth7t7

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Hello seventysevens,

Thank you for joining the discussion..... I am showiyou have made this observation and I am sure others who are reading but not posting are also coming to this same conclusion...... I attempt to discuss certain specific verses..... and they come back with totally unrelated Scripture and without showing how it applies to what I have written.

Anybody who reads this thread..... whether now or in the future..... can easily see this..... the record speaks for itself much louder than anything that I or they have actually said.

I am perfectly willing to explain the real meaning of their passages..... looking at the context..... going back to the root meaning of the Greek or Hebrew words if required IN SEARCH OF A REASONABLE EXPLANATION THAT DOES NOT VIOLATE OTHER SCRIPTURES..... I did such exegesis with Matthew 21:43 and absolutely NOBODY challenged or even noticed that post...... just went on and on throwing up other scriptures with no attempt to reconcile them.... because of our universal, fundamental conviction that the Word does not contradict itself (it may only 'appear' to do so on the surface.... but as we really get into it such apparent contradiction is readily resolved) ..... this may be entirely intentional on God's part..... for He has said 'that those who seek Him must do so with their whole heart' (Jeremiah 29:13)...... and the Word is a 'two-edged sword' which will cut those who use it improperly.

If we really RESPECT the Word we will not be satisfied with 'verses that seem to contradict each other' but we will harmonize all of Scripture in such a manner that everything can be explained...... the principles we use to exegete the passages must be consistent ..... we cannot choose one method in one place and another method somewhere else... otherwise it becomes totally arbitrary... and we cannot tell what it sayeth.

The problem with amillennial theology, eschatology and soteriology is that there is not this bedrock foundation of logical hermeneutics .... and as a result of this ..... there is literally confusion in the amillennialist camp..... as many 'interpretations' as they are people doing the interpreting.... and the absolute impossibility of rationally explaining large chunks of the Word.... so they are simply avoided in the hope that the people they are trying to 'convert' don't even know of their existence..... and since most people have never actually gone through the entire Bible in SEQUENCE and/or REMEMBERED what they read ..... these YOUTUBE videos 'explaining' the so-called flaws of sound church teachings find a ready audience and host of blind followers..... who love the sensational aspect of ......"you have been lied to all your life.... what you think is true is all wrong" ..... do you know how many millions swallow that .... hook, line and sinker ?

There has been a massive upsurge in 'conspiracy theories' and 'hidden knowledge' videos by people looking to cash-in on Youtube popularity by capturing the attention of a gullible public..... I am amazed at what people are willing to 'believe'.

It's 'open season' on sound doctrine my dear brother.

For the persons holding to the amillennialist position... consider this .... there are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 318 references in the New Testament to the promise of an earthly kingdom with a literal Messiah ruling the world from His throne in Jerusalem.

That's a lot of verses to reconcile with your 'favorites'...... so get cracking and I look forward to reading some really creative 'explanations' ...... that will keep this thread going for the next 3 years.

Have a wonderful day everybody..... I love all of ya ..... whether readers of posters..... controversial or otherwise.
There is no future 1000 year earthly kingdom found in scripture, post them two at a time.

We will spend the next three years showing how your wrong, in misrepresentation of the future "Eternal Kingdom" in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.

Two at a time! :)
 
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Truth7t7

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So that's great debate.t7.....

So start explaining the passage in Revelation chapter 20 where Satan is bound for a time (oops... it actually SAYS a thousand years)..... and then released again for a season to go out and deceive the people once again.

Now we know that Satan has never been bound up to now..... so it must be future.... if it was so simple as you say..... what the point of letting him out again..... and who are those people that he is going out to deceive once he is let out ?

And please start explaining those 2,000+ passages throughout the entire Bible that I mentioned in my last post.

You can start with the verses I mentioned in post #138
Rule #1 you must respond with a quote of my original post, no one sided debate.

Revelation 20:1-6 represents the Lords Spiritual realm, there is no earthly kingdom with mortal humans seen.

Angel, heaven, devil, Satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, your earthly kingdom isn't there, "Next"!

Two At A Time :)
 
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