Trump Fulfills Jerusalem Prophecy Today

BABerean2 said:

Pastor John Hagee (CUFI), let my people go!! - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

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RADICALS.

parousia70 said:

I think she absloutely did.

Lets read it one more time:
I am excited to see things shaping up and the way being prepared for the second coming of Lord Jesus.I just think that people do not understand that this preparation will not be pretty, or painless.



Perhaps, but its pretty clear she is also excited to "see things Shaping up" and that "It wont be painless"

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NOPE, you put those words in her mouth....

She is not saying she is exited that it will not be pretty or painless.

Like an old gunfighter saying "I just wanna get this slug out of my leg" when he knows it's going to be painful.

He is not saying "wow, can hardly wait for some doctor to ram a forceps into my leg and search for the bullet in there".

So let's not speak for others and twist their words.

I, too am excited for the coming of Christ. I'm fearful of the events that usher it in.

Davy said:

RADICALS.

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Gal 1:6　 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:　
Gal 1:7　 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.　
Gal 1:8　 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.　
Gal 1:9　 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.　

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BABerean2 said:

　
Gal 1:6　 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:　
Gal 1:7　 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.　
Gal 1:8　 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.　
Gal 1:9　 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.　

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And such were the Judaizers of Apostle Paul's day.

Davy said:

Wait a minute. Is he accusing evangelicals with setting the stage for Satan to appear as Christ? Sounds like it to me. Someone should tell him that God's Word just so happens to prophecy of Satan coming to pose as Messiah in the last days; no need to blame it on evangelicals who may warn about it from Scripture, because God is Who is warning us about it in His Word.

Rev.12:7 forward reveals Satan being cast down to this earth with his angels after the war in Heaven against Michael and his angels, and the "dragon" is one of Satan's titles given there, which continues as the subject of the coming false one in Rev.13 that will work great signs and miracles on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, and setting up an "image of the beast" in false idol worship.

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This is the key statement in the quote
""Evangelicals misinterpret the prophecies as applying to literal Israel when they now apply to spiritual Israel."

Is this the LIE of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 ?

Can you be grafted in physically to the Nation of Iseral? NO We as gentiles are grafted in Spiritually since the Cross. Thus the 70 week prophecy (seventy weeks are determined upon my people) ended the literal Israel and at the Cross spiritual Israel was instituded.

"When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the Gospel was spread to all nations. All who believe in the name of Jesus can now become the spiritual descendants of Abraham (Galatians 3:16, 29; Romans 4:16; 9:3-8).

The apostle Paul calls Christians “the Israel of God” and “the circumcision.” God gave circumcision to Abraham as a symbol of belonging to God's people. When Paul refers to all Christians as “the circumcision,” he reminds us that the Kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel. This new circumcision is not of the body but of the heart.

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder (Matthew 21:43-44).

Any who permit Christ to transform them and to change their character receive the new name of “Israel,” just as Jacob did thousands of years ago.

Jesus did not choose 12 disciples by accident. Just as the 12 patriarchs were the founders of ancient Israel, so these 12 men are the foundation stones of new Israel (Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30). The subsequent choice of 70 others is modeled after the choice of 70 elders by Moses in ancient Israel (Numbers 11:16).

The new Israel inherits God’s covenant promises. Those who have accepted Christ become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God (Compare 1 Peter 2:9-10 with Exodus 19:5-6)."

New Covenant Israel

Original Happy Camper said:

I, too am excited for the coming of Christ. I'm fearful of the events that usher it in.

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What exactly does the Christian have to fear?
Physical Pain?
Tribulation?
Famine?

That could happen to any Christian well before any "ushering events" unfold...no?

And why not be excited about the painful transition?

Original Happy Camper said:

This is the key statement in the quote
""Evangelicals misinterpret the prophecies as applying to literal Israel when they now apply to spiritual Israel."

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This is the part of the quote I was referring to:

"The enemy can use them and the United States to fulfill erroneous prophetic interpretations and set the stage for Satan to appear as Christ in his final deception, and perhaps including Jerusalem in his global tour."

That's the part I definitely don't agree with. It doesn't matter that Trump is supporting Jerusalem being the capitol of the state of Israel, all is going according to U.N. plans. After all, the U.N. is how the 1948 state of Israel was created, and still controls its borders.

That won't influence the prophecy of the false messiah coming to Jerusalem to sit in a rebuilt temple because God has already ordained it, and God didn't even have to ask Trump's permission!

Original Happy Camper said:

This is the key statement in the quote
""Evangelicals misinterpret the prophecies as applying to literal Israel when they now apply to spiritual Israel."

Is this the LIE of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 ?

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No, it is not the lie Paul was speaking of. The "strong delusion" Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2 is that 'lie', and the "strong delusion" is about the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem to exalt himself in place of God inside this next temple the unbelieving Jews plan to build in Jerusalem in our time. I mean, how can one even read about the deception warning in the first part of 2 Thess.2 which Paul gave and not understand that false one coming represents the "lie" of verse 11?

Can you be grafted in physically to the Nation of Iseral? NO We as gentiles are grafted in Spiritually since the Cross. Thus the 70 week prophecy (seventy weeks are determined upon my people) ended the literal Israel and at the Cross spiritual Israel was instituded.

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Wrong, God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ never prophesied to end the literal physical nation of Israel, and that means literally the seed of Israel. Don't you understand that Gentile nations will still exist in God's future Kingdom (see end of Isaiah 19). God is Who created the nations and the different peoples.

What many miss from scripture, is how God's Israel is not just about a nation only, but actually points directly to His Promise by Faith. When Jacob overcame the Angel of The Lord and demanded a blessing, Israel was the new name given to Jacob and to his seed thereafter. It means to prevail with God's help. It's the 'overcomer' idea of Revelation. The name itself represents God's Salvation through His Son. The main difference with the nation and seed of Israel, is that He chose them to be entrusted with spreading His Salvation Gospel to the rest of the nations, a major and huge responsibility, and not one that deems one to act haughty in status over Gentiles.

"When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the Gospel was spread to all nations. All who believe in the name of Jesus can now become the spiritual descendants of Abraham (Galatians 3:16, 29; Romans 4:16; 9:3-8).

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Very true.

The apostle Paul calls Christians “the Israel of God” and “the circumcision.” God gave circumcision to Abraham as a symbol of belonging to God's people. When Paul refers to all Christians as “the circumcision,” he reminds us that the Kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel. This new circumcision is not of the body but of the heart.

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder (Matthew 21:43-44).

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Mostly true.

Remember Rom.11 where Paul told us that God's gifts and calling are without repentance, meaning He won't take them back. He chose the seed of Israel, and He's not going to end the nation of Israel; He will simply cut off the unbelievers of the seed of Israel out of His Salvation. Simple as that, and what Paul is saying in Rom.11 about the unbelievers of Israel who remain in unbelief.

God chose one of Ephraim to be king over the ten northern tribes of Israel (1 Kings 11). To Ephraim was given the birthright blessings from his father Jacob, and Jacob said Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations". That is how Matt.21 about the kingdom being moved to another nation was fulfilled. It's about the western Christian nations which received The Gospel after it was rejected in Jerusalem.

So what's that about? i.e., Ephraim's connection as a "multitude of nations" in Christ Jesus? Ephraim was made the head tribe over the rest of the ten tribes. In Jeremiah 31:9, God calls Ephraim His firstborn. It's about God's Birthright blessings transferred to Ephraim in Gen.48. One of the promises to Abraham was the Promise of Salvation by Faith (Gal.3 where you referred to). Ephraim has been in charge of that Promise by Faith, i.e, The Gospel, in the western Christian nations of history, and that's also part of the fulfillment of Ephraim becoming "a multitude of nations" per Gen.48.

So like Jacob was told in Gen.35, that his seed would become "a nation, and a company of nations", the company of nations was fulfilled in The Gospel of Jesus Christ through the seed of Ephraim over the ten tribes scattered to the west along with the believing Gentiles. And both as one became Christ's Church.

Original Happy Camper said:

You are believing a teaching that came from the counter reformation based on your post.

Luis de Alcasar
Jesuit scholar Luis de Alcasar (preterism’s creator) in 1604. His book, Investigation of the Hidden Sense of the Apocalypse, was published in 1614. Froom states this:

Applying the New Jerusalem to the Catholic Church, Alcazar contended that the Apocalypse describes the twofold war of the church in the early centuries—one with the Jewish synagogue, and the other with paganism—resulting in victory over both adversaries. Revelation 1 to 11 he applied to the rejection of the Jews and the desolation of Jerusalem by the Romans. Revelation 12 to 19 Alcazar allotted to the overthrow of Roman paganism and the conversion of the empire to the church, the judgment of the great Harlot being effected by the downfall of pagan idolatry; Revelation 20 he applied to the final persecution by Antichrist, and the day of judgment; and chapters 21 and 22, referring to the New Jerusalem, he made descriptive of the glorious and endless triumphant state of the Roman church.v
Futurism and Preterism

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Actually no. This is historical fact which simply reading Daniel 11 and history it's...undenieable. I don't know if you read the link but this has nothing to do with the counter reformation or Alcazar. Long before Alcasar Jewish history taught this long before him. It's about Hanukkah!

Praying at a wall of Roman Fort Antonia...



See the link below.

The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

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Original Happy Camper said:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 [Full Chapter]
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...

This verse is not for the hethean but for those that profess to follow Christ in the last days.

Ask yourself WHAT IS THE LIE?

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It is for anyone who rejected the Gospel of Jesus Thee Christ as it was preached that Jesus IS THEE Messiah ,For Jesus shed His innocent blood to pay the price if sins so that you can be saved from eternal damnation. That it had been preached into all the world that Jesus IS King and people just rejected it

Ronald said:

As the Bible clearly says in Romans 11:25, "do not be ignorant of this mystery..."
I'm well aware of two the Old and New Covenants. Romans 11 concerns both. Branches were broken off so that the Gentiles could be grafted in and God will graft back in the natural branches again. He committed them to disobedience but THEY WILL ONCE AGAIN RECEIVE MERCY when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete (vs.32)
It's one chapter, I don't get how you guys can't discern it. It's reasonable to think you would do this to the rest of the Bible as well. If I remember correctly, I've had conversations with you in the past -- you're also an Amillennialist?

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I don't know how you can't discern that the only way they can be grafted back in again is thru accepting Christ like everybody else did. And anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father, period, which is the fact. So you're obviously misinterpreting them. There's nothing outside of the 2nd testament/covenant. So you are definitely preaching the spirit of antichrist doctrine:

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
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1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

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That's the fact of the matter.

Ronald said:

I'm in agreement with every word of the Bible, but concerning the End Times, there are many views and I have mine -- The jury is not out yet. You will experience things in the coming months and years that you've never expected -- shall I then call you a deceiver?

You better watch yourself, you are accusing me of not being a Christian! That's against forum rules and although I've never reported anyone who outright attacks my faith ... let this be a warning to you!

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Actions speaks louder than words. I never said you weren't a Christian. I simply pointed out what the scriptures says concerning your actions. So then shall I also call you a deceiver, since you're totally dismissing the facts?

precepts said:

I don't know how you can't discern that the only way they can be grafted back in again is thru accepting Christ like everybody else did. And anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father, period, which is the fact. So you're obviously misinterpreting them. There's nothing outside of the 2nd testament/covenant. So you are definitely preaching the spirit of antichrist doctrine:


That's the fact of the matter.

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LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS, "DON'T BE IGNORANT ..."
H E L L O, the FATHER WILL DRAW THEM TO CHRIST - THAT IS MY DISCERNMENT,
DON'T DISTORT WHAT I SAID. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THEY WILL COME TO CHRIST. GOD WILL DRAW THEM, REMOVE THE VEIL OF BLINDNESS AND THEY WILL SEE.

precepts said:

Actions speaks louder than words. I never said you weren't a Christian. I simply pointed out what the scriptures says concerning your actions.

So then shall I also call you a deceiver, since you're totally dismissing the facts?

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What actions?
Listen, grow up. Stop your attacks on my faith. Just because I have a different interpretation then yours, doesn't call for you to become vicious, saying my preaching is of the antichrist, my words are not of God, implying my faith is not in Christ.
It sounds just like what the LEFT do, you know liberal media and Democrats who make up stuff, create fake news, make false claims -- whatever it takes ... but this is worse, attacking the faith of someone! Go your way.

Ronald said:

LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS, "DON'T BE IGNORANT ..."
H E L L O, the FATHER WILL DRAW THEM TO CHRIST - THAT IS MY DISCERNMENT,
DON'T DISTORT WHAT I SAID. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THEY WILL COME TO CHRIST. GOD WILL DRAW THEM, REMOVE THE VEIL OF BLINDNESS AND THEY WILL SEE.

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Romans 9:27 Only A "Remnant" Are Called To Be Saved.

Ronald said:

GOD WILL DRAW THEM, REMOVE THE VEIL OF BLINDNESS AND THEY WILL SEE.

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2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

2Co 3:11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

2Co 3:12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech—

2Co 3:13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

2Co 3:15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.


Those who refuse to see the New Covenant of Christ, which we are ministers of in verse 6 above, also have a veil over their eyes.


The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and the passage above.

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BABerean2 said:

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

2Co 3:11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

2Co 3:12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech—

2Co 3:13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

2Co 3:15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.


Those who refuse to see the New Covenant of Christ, which we are ministers of in verse 6 above, also have a veil over their eyes.


The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and the passage above.

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I am in agreement with scripture - all of it. You should be to, because you missed on verse 14 where it says they were blinded to this day, the veil remains. And yes, because they are blind, they read Moses and it remains.
This does support Rom. 11- they are blinded to this day.
Our spiritual selves are neither Greek, nor Jew, nor male or female, we are all in Christ. The Body of Christ spiritual. But this does not negate Old Testament convenants, blood lines. You can't allegorize every convenant and apply it to the natural branches. God is not done with natural Israel. They will be grafted into the spiritual body if Christ. Y oh bring up Jer. 31:34, but fail read "all Israel will be saved", which also supports Rom. 11.
So when they turn to the LORD, it will be an answer to a promise made long ago in Jet. 31. It wasn't fulfilled. The body isn't entirely full yet -- just about though.
I don't understand your resentment and animosity towards a remnant Jewish population - millions that will be drawn to Jesus. ??? This is the spirit of anti-Semitism.

Ronald said:

I am in agreement with scripture - all of it. You should be to, because you missed on verse 14 where it says they were blinded to this day, the veil remains. And yes, because they are blind, they read Moses and it remains.
This does support Rom. 11- they are blinded to this day.
Our spiritual selves are neither Greek, nor Jew, nor male or female, we are all in Christ. The Body of Christ spiritual. But this does not negate Old Testament convenants, blood lines. You can't allegorize every convenant and apply it to the natural branches. God is not done with natural Israel. They will be grafted into the spiritual body if Christ. Y oh bring up Jer. 31:34, but fail read "all Israel will be saved", which also supports Rom. 11.
So when they turn to the LORD, it will be an answer to a promise made long ago in Jet. 31. It wasn't fulfilled. The body isn't entirely full yet -- just about though.
I don't understand your resentment and animosity towards a remnant Jewish population - millions that will be drawn to Jesus. ??? This is the spirit of anti-Semitism.

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Why would you call someone who supports ministries which are now taking the Gospel to the Jewish people "anti-Semitic"?

Are all of the Jews "partially" blinded in Romans chapter 11, or are part blinded and part not blinded?
Read Romans 11:1-5 to find the answer.
Paul who wrote 2 Corinthians was an Israelite who was not blinded.

There is one key word in Romans 11:26, which must be considered.
The word "so" is an adverb of manner, which refers to being grafted back into the Olive Tree Church, through faith in Christ. You are attempting to make it about the timing of salvation.

In Romans 9:6-8 Paul makes it plain that all of fleshly Israel is not spiritual Israel.

How many programs have we seen on Christian television which would reveal to the Jewish people the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah found in Daniel chapter 9 ? Why not?

Many in the modern Church wait for a time of salvation for the Jewish people, while thousands die each year without Christ.

Who was Peter speaking to on the Day of Pentecost when he addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36?

Why did Peter preach Jesus to the Jews that day, instead of waiting?

Was Peter being "anti-Semitic" ?

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