The Meaning of Discipleship

Great post and I agree. We can glorify God as we go throughout our daily lives. I also agree with you a point of discipleship is how we treat other Christians and build each other up. These forums are an example of one way to do that.

Sola1517 said:

Discipleship is the imitating of other Christians as they do their best to imitate Jesus. (1 Corinthians 11:1) The point of discipleship is not to give us a bunch of rules to follow, but instead it should give us the tools to enjoy life in a way that the Gospel can advance and that we can worship while we do whatever. It's possible to worship God while having a beer with your steak. It's possible to honor God through its consumption. Now this being said, everything should be in moderation. This is hard for me sometimes as far as food and people in my church denomination have been known to be more obese. My point is that Jesus had the reputation of being a drunkard while doing evangelism/discipleship. (Luke 7:34) We ought to have the same reputation as friends of sinners that Jesus had while he was on earth. (Matthew 11:19) It's possible to worship God while you watch TV. Watch the TV and determine what the character's motivations are, the worldview behind the plot, etc. Then compare that theology with the Bible. Jesus does not want his disciples to be scared of the world he wants them to engage the world.

The meaning of discipleship is that God pursues the world with patience and determination through the spread of the Gospel by any means necessary.

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Good post.

Sola1517 said:

My point is that Jesus had the reputation of being a drunkard while doing evangelism/discipleship. (Luke 7:34) We ought to have the same reputation as friends of sinners that Jesus had while he was on earth.

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'Point'? You don't mean, 'trying' to be 'friends' of the world, to get drunk, stoned or high on drugs, right!?

Perhaps clarity on "share their values" would help .... some people have lived as if they can go get soused with their friends, or live loose and free without discipline and without training because "their values" don't include self control, righteousness, goodness, or even "doing what is right"....
As disciples we are strictly told not to love the world nor the things of the world,
rather to be LIGHTS in the world of darkness, LIGHTS which we are as we follow Jesus and DO as He Says.
The religious teachers and leaders of Jesus Day often taught Scriptures, but then did not live as they taught, and Jesus trained His disciples to LISTEN when the religious leaders TAUGHT SCRIPTURE, (directly, unchanged),
but NOT to live like the religious leaders did. (like the world/ hypocrites/ unfaithful).
Living straight and narrow lives in line with Jesus Word as
the disciples were all taught by Jesus results in righteousness, peace and joy all gifts from our Father in Heaven,
a good true testimony to others watching,
and sometimes in others being saved if they are willing.

Sola1517 said:

Discipleship is the imitating of other Christians as they do their best to imitate Jesus. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

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I would disagree.

What Paul was talking about in 1 Cor 11.1 was NOT discipleship. That was more of a pastoral function. He could not personally disciple all of those people. He discipled only Timothy, Titus and a few others.

God commanded discipleship in Matt 28:

Discipleship is the responsibility of the evangelist, not the new believer. You cannot make yourself into a disciple; you must submit yourself to the process and walk in obedience. It is a PERSONAL one-on-one training.

Paul outlines the process of discipleship here:


Paul discipled Timothy.
Timothy is to disciple a group of "faithful men."
Each of those men are to also choose a group of "faithful men" to disciple.

And so on.

Sola1517 said:

Discipleship is the imitating of other Christians as they do their best to imitate Jesus. (1 Corinthians 11:1) The point of discipleship is not to give us a bunch of rules to follow, but instead it should give us the tools to enjoy life in a way that the Gospel can advance and that we can worship while we do whatever. It's possible to worship God while having a beer with your steak. It's possible to honor God through its consumption. Now this being said, everything should be in moderation. This is hard for me sometimes as far as food and people in my church denomination have been known to be more obese. My point is that Jesus had the reputation of being a drunkard while doing evangelism/discipleship. (Luke 7:34) We ought to have the same reputation as friends of sinners that Jesus had while he was on earth. (Matthew 11:19) It's possible to worship God while you watch TV. Watch the TV and determine what the character's motivations are, the worldview behind the plot, etc. Then compare that theology with the Bible. Jesus does not want his disciples to be scared of the world he wants them to engage the world.

The meaning of discipleship is that God pursues the world with patience and determination through the spread of the Gospel by any means necessary.

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A disciple is someone who has the goal of memorizing their rabbi's teachings, of learning to think and act like them, and to essentially become an imitation of them, where if we've seen them, then we've seen the one who sent them. This necessarily involves adopting the same rules that the rabbi followed, so it is incorrect to say that it is not about rules, especially when the rules are the tools to enjoy life in a way that the Gospel can advance. This means that it would be impossible for There are 1,050 rules in the NT, so I don't see how you can deny that it's about rules. In the Great Commission, Jesus instructed his disciples to teach their d Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23), so repenting from our disobedience to God's rules and turning back to obedience is an integral part of the Gospel message, and why it is good news. We are called to be a light to the world, which means that we are to engage with it, but at the same time remain distinct from it. If there is no contrast between us and the world, then we have failed to be a light, but if contrast is all there is, then we have failed to engage.

Sola1517 said:

If it's about rules then why does Paul say in Galatians 3 and Romans 7 & 8 that rules are powerless to help us?

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The fact that we are not justified by following rules does not mean that there is no benefit to following them. God's commands were given to instruct us how to live righteously in accordance with His righteousness, but were not given as instructions for how to become righteous, and thus are powerless for that purpose. In other words, they are instructions for how someone who has been declared righteous ought to live. In 1 John 3:10, it says that those who do not practice righteousness are not children of God, so following these rules is not optional for us. In 2 Timothy 2:16-17, it says that all OT Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for training in righteousness and equipping us to do every good work. In Titus 2:11-14, it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to follow rules. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of causing us to obey God's rules. In Romans 7:22, it says that Paul delighted in obeying God's Law, and in Romans 8:4-7, it says that those who have a carnal mind refuse to submit to God's Law in contrast with walking in the Spirit. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with God's Law, while all everything listed as carnal works that are against the Spirit are also against the Law.

In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, and that his teachings are not his own, but that of the Father, so obedience to God's commands is about expressing our love for Him. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law and there are number of places in the OT where disobedience to God's commands is described as breaking faith, so obedience to God's command is about expressing our faith in Him to guide us in how to walk in His ways and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on love and faith.

I guess you think your a better Christian than me because you don't do or do do X, Y, or Z?

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In Psalms 119:29, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law, so God shows His grace to us by teaching us how to walk in His ways. A Christian is a follower of Christ and we are all better or worse than others at walking in God's ways in accordance with following Christ's example of obedience to the Law, so there is nothing wrong with saying that some Christians are more like Christ than others, but this training to be more like Christ is something that only happens by grace through faith, so those who are further along in this training have nothing to boast about. Two people can perform the same action, such as helping the poor, where one person is giving glory to themselves, while the other is acting out of faith and love for God, so someone is not necessarily a better Christian because they don't do or do X, Y, or Z, though our willingness to submit to God's commands is generally a good indicator of the depth of our relationship with Him.

Sola1517 said:

If it's about rules then why does Paul say in Galatians 3 and Romans 7 & 8 that rules are powerless to help us?

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Paul was specifically speaking of OT commands to a gentile audience. (and more incidentally the rabbinic rules surrounding them)

Those items are not able to produce salvation.

Sola1517 said:

Oh, so in God's eyes there are levels of righteousness?

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There is the issue of whether or not someone is righteous and the issue of people being more righteous than others. For example in Genesis 38:26 and 1 Samuel 24:17, people spoke about someone being more righteous than they were. In other words, one person's actions are more in line with God's instructions for how to do what is righteous than the other's. However, no amount of obedience to God's commands will ever cause someone who is not righteous to become righteous because the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith, and by the same grace through faith we are therefore required to follow God's instructions for how to do what is righteous. There are verses that speak about us also being judged according to what we have done (Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:10)

Soyeong said:

There is the issue of whether or not someone is righteous and the issue of people being more righteous than others. For example in Genesis 38:26 and 1 Samuel 24:17, people spoke about someone being more righteous than they were. In other words, one person's actions are more in line with God's instructions for how to do what is righteous than the other's. However, no amount of obedience to God's commands will ever cause someone who is not righteous to become righteous because the one and only way that there has ever been to become righteous is by grace through faith, and by the same grace through faith we are therefore required to follow God's instructions for how to do what is righteous. There are verses that speak about us also being judged according to what we have done (Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:10)

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There is not one righteous, no not one. But there are levels of maturity.

~Cassia~ said:

There is not one righteous, no not one. But there are levels of maturity.

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It is completely false that there is no one who is righteous because there are a number of people who were described as righteous in the Bible, such Noah (Genesis 6:9), Zechariah, and Elizabeth (Luke 1:6). Throughout the Psalms and Proverbs, it frequently refers to a group of people who are "the righteous" and it would make no sense to do that if there was no one who belonged in that category. Rather, the statement that no one is righteous is a quote from Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3, both of which are speaking about the category of people who say that there is no God. We are all declared to be righteous by grace through faith.

Soyeong said:

It is completely false that there is no one who is righteous because there are a number of people who were described as righteous in the Bible, such Noah (Genesis 6:9), Zechariah, and Elizabeth (Luke 1:6). Throughout the Psalms and Proverbs, it frequently refers to a group of people who are "the righteous" and it would make no sense to do that if there was no one who belonged in that category. Rather, the statement that no one is righteous is a quote from Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3, both of which are speaking about the category of people who say that there is no God. We are all declared to be righteous by grace through faith.

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As righteous as even Job was he still needed to have the righteousness of God rather than his own integrity that he held on to so fiercely. But you are right that many are called that in the bible OT and NT.

Sola1517 said:

Discipleship is the imitating of other Christians as they do their best to imitate Jesus. (1 Corinthians 11:1) ...

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Thought #1: I think there is risk in a strict literalist read of Paul's statement. I reject that we need to imitate a middle man; rather I submit the sufficiency of imitating Christ. In this day and age, I think we should take great care about what Christian we choose to imitate, for some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Thought #2: Let's not make discipleship too complicated. Jesus called a bunch of fishermen who immediately put down their nets and followed him. No questions asked. No understanding of "discipleship." No Christianforums.com on which to try to understand discipleship. They just went.

seeking.IAM said:

Thought #1: I think there is risk in a strict literalist read of Paul's statement. I reject that we need to imitate a middle man; rather I submit the sufficiency of imitating Christ. In this day and age, I think we should take great care about what Christian we choose to imitate, for some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Thought #2: Let's not make discipleship too complicated. Jesus called a bunch of fishermen who immediately put down their nets and followed him. No questions asked. No understanding of "discipleship." No Christianforums.com on which to try to understand discipleship. They just went.

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I agree. There's a huge difference between conformity and transformation.

~Cassia~ said:

As righteous as even Job was he still needed to have the righteousness of God rather than his own integrity that he held on to so fiercely. But you are right that many are called that in the bible OT and NT.

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Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23) and obedience to God is straightforwardly about having faith in Him to teach us how to walk in His ways, so whenever the Bible speaks about someone obeying God's commands or someone who is righteous, we should take it to be talking about someone who is acting in faith and has the righteousness of God unless it is otherwise noted. For example, Noah found grace in the eyes of God (Genesis 6:8), so it was no accident that he was righteous, but rather he was righteous because he had been trained by grace and obeyed through faith.