Calling a man "Father"

buzuxi02

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He also says call no man teacher (Matt 23:8) nor instructor (v 10), yet teacher is one of the gifts of the Spirit (Acts 13:1 )

To understand this read verse 3: 'So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.'

Basically since the teachers did not follow what they preached it was apparent they were above the little people. In Christianity that position requires equality with those being taught. Only Christ and His Father are above all. Matthew 10:24 sums this up:' The disciple is not above
his master, nor the servant above his lord.'

This teaching was never seen as a command. Paul spoke of himself as a Father of his flock:
'For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.'(1 Cor 4:15)
Also see Philemon 1:10-12
 
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Unveiled Artist

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Jesus says we're to call no man Father - how does this reconcile with e.g. Father Seraphim?

I see a contradiction, but I'm open to hearing a perspective I've not considered before.

Thanks

~David

Its easier to say: ' f 'ather John; father Jim.
Proper noun: Father Abraham

I called my father down to sit with the family for dinner.

I ask my Father to bless me
Our Father who is in heaven
My Father, the Creater, and our Lord (rather than lord) Jesus Christ.

Which is different than lord or king of the crown and different from the pronoun Lord Henry or Robin Hood King of Thieves.

Its all in context and caps. God vs. god and so forth.
 
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SeraTaru

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Its easier to say: ' f 'ather John; father Jim.
Proper noun: Father Abraham

I called my father down to sit with the family for dinner.

I ask my Father to bless me
Our Father who is in heaven
My Father, the Creater, and our Lord (rather than lord) Jesus Christ.

Which is different than lord or king of the crown and different from the pronoun Lord Henry or Robin Hood King of Thieves.

Its all in context and caps. God vs. god and so forth.

Ok I get that I think. Are you saying that HE is saying "Look don't call anyone FATHER IN PLACE OF your Father in heaven?"

If so....makes sense.
 
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I simply take our Lord to have meant that His disciples ought not to give to any man (in their hearts or minds) the status of our Father Who is in Heaven, or of our Teacher, the Christ. Nor are they to permit others to do so with regard to themselves. All are subject to God's eternal Truth, and where our earthly fathers ask us to sin against God they are not to be obeyed.

An example would be a priest or other duly ordained minister who requires his spiritual children to engage in sexual acts with him.

Another example would be a minister who violates boundaries of trust by using his authority to prevent members of the Church administration from abiding by tax laws set forth by civil authorities, in violation of our Lord's commandments through His Apostle Paul, found in Romans 13. This actually happened in a Church in my own city not too long ago.

Unfortunately, behaviors such as these on the part of those we would like to call father are a lot more common than most Christians are aware of. It's the work of the devil for sure.
 
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RaymondG

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Jesus says we're to call no man Father - how does this reconcile with e.g. Father Seraphim?

I see a contradiction, but I'm open to hearing a perspective I've not considered before.

Thanks

~David
When you refer to your earthly Father to someone else....Do you say he is/was your father? If so, how do you reconcile that?
 
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FenderTL5

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for brevity I omitted verses specifically referencing natural fathers and references to God the Father.
These verses have references to spiritual fathers or those to be treated "as fathers".

Acts 7:2 Stephen said: “Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopota′mia, before he lived in Haran..
(read the whole chapter, there are multiple references to the fathers)

Apostle Paul
I Corinthians 4:14-15
I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Philippians 2:22-23
Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel. I hope therefore to send him just as soon as I see how it will go with me; and I trust in the Lord that shortly I myself shall come also.

I Thessalonians 2:10-12 You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our behavior to you believers; for you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to lead a life worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

1 Timothy 5:1-2 Do not rebuke an older man but exhort him as you would a father; treat younger men like brothers, older women like mothers, younger women like sisters, in all purity.

II Timothy 1:3 I thank God whom I serve with a clear conscience, as did my fathers, when I remember you constantly in my prayers.

Philemon 1:10 I appeal to you for my child, Ones′imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.
 
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tampasteve

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Generally speaking, we need to see the context and how it relates to other verses throughout the Bible. The Bible also says in 1 Peter that "All people are like grass" but of course that does not mean that we are actually made of grass or like it in a literal way. In this context Yeshua is not telling us to actually not call a man "father" but rather to not call a man "Father" as in our Father in Heaven, G-d as we only have one G-d, one Father.
 
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Ok I get that I think. Are you saying that HE is saying "Look don't call anyone FATHER IN PLACE OF your Father in heaven?"

If so....makes sense.

Exactly. When you in biblical view call someone your Father (English/Caps) you are saying whoevee you refer to is align with The Creator and Jesus themselves. Youre making that person an idol.

In English proper nouns and the words at the beginning of a sentence is in caps. So, it may seem to a christian we shouldnt call Abraham Father when its a proper noun for founding fathers of America. On the other hand not many grammatically correct english sentences start with father since it acts as a title and pronoun that in most places does not mean male parent or male authority in relation to someone else. If you go in a nonchristian country, Father wouldnt mean anything in relation to god. Its just how English use the term for respect not for a specific religion.

But thr father vs Father thing is kinda silly on one hand if one is native in English. But thats me.
 
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He is not meaning it literally.

Jesus is trying to teach his disciples about what we would call today "servant leadership", which stands in contrast to someone imposing authority onto another person, without actually earning the respect due to that authority.
 
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ArmyMatt

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only thing to add is when Christ tells the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man calls Abraham "Father" and Abraham addresses the rich man as "son." if it was improper to call anyone Father at all, the Lord Himself surely would not do it
 
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Bessie

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One of the places we get calling priests father is from 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Paul was saying that he was the spiritual father of that group of people, and we carry that tradition today.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I'm going to have to remember that I never thought of ... in the last Baptist church before I left that denomination, it was fine to talk and sing about "Father Abraham" ... we even taught it to the children. Then turned right around and condemned Catholics for calling priests "Father" based on that verse. Never made that connection.


Anyway ... there is something deeper there that takes time to appreciate. Since others have already shown that in the Scriptures Paul refers to himself as a father of spiritual children, etc.

But from a priest's point of view, to be called "father" probably is a profound reminder of his responsibility to the flock. And it really took me time to move past the issues of a bad example set by my own earthly father, but in relating to priests as "father" and seeing that they felt personally responsible to set me in a right direction, protect me from possible wrong authority or influence, provide me with advice and means for the restoration of my soul from any bad influence - it's really touching. And it inspires a little glimpse into the way God the Father cares for us all.

It's a good and beneficial dynamic. And thankfully I have known only good priests, all of them. :)
 
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Ioustinos

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Jesus says we're to call no man Father - how does this reconcile with e.g. Father Seraphim?

I see a contradiction, but I'm open to hearing a perspective I've not considered before.

Thanks

~David

I've found Father Thomas Hopko's explanation on this to be helpful:

Call No Man Father
 
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Hermit76

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To the OP... Please look at the posters' description on here to make sure you are getting an Eastern Orthodox answer. Sometimes folk from other faith groups post and it can get confusing.
 
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Steve Petersen

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What would this saying of Jesus have meant to a first-century Jew?

"Contextually, though, the reference is to the honour sought by some Jewish teachers. It does not extend to parents but solely to educators who were sometimes called fathers. Jewish rabbis were known by several titles including rabban, rabbi, rab, teacher, father , master, even king. Yet, there is some debate over when these titles began. Many scholars point out that the title rabbi was a late development, contemporary with or just after the time of Jesus. Maybe it was its very innovation that Jesus was criticizing.

Judaism's most famous teaching schools, those of Hillel and Shammai, around the time of Jesus' birth and youth, were retrospectively called rabbis. But in their time they were not called rabbis and it was their followers who first took the titles. According to some Jewish sources rabbi Simeon was amongst the first to take the title, he was the son of Hillel, and considered by some to be the Simeon in the temple that took the infant Jesus in his arms.

So it maybe that Jesus is specifically criticizing the very recent innovation of addressing teachers by titles of respect such as rabbi, master and father. He instructs his disciples to stand out as different, not seeking reward or reverence for their teaching, but seeking instead to be humble servants. Thus, this saying of Jesus has probably nothing to say about our earthly parents and only a general criticism of Catholic usage. It is to be applied even-handedly across all traditions that unduly venerate their ministers, whether by rabbi, reverend, father or pastor. Though, hyperbole accepted, the intention may be relative rather than absolute, calling us not to raise teachers to 'guru' status but to accept equality within the brethren and the hope of Jeremiah 31:34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD', for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them".
Call no man your father - Difficult Sayings- Language Studies - StudyLight.org
 
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ArmyMatt

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What would this saying of Jesus have meant to a first-century Jew?

"Contextually, though, the reference is to the honour sought by some Jewish teachers. It does not extend to parents but solely to educators who were sometimes called fathers. Jewish rabbis were known by several titles including rabban, rabbi, rab, teacher, father , master, even king. Yet, there is some debate over when these titles began. Many scholars point out that the title rabbi was a late development, contemporary with or just after the time of Jesus. Maybe it was its very innovation that Jesus was criticizing.

Judaism's most famous teaching schools, those of Hillel and Shammai, around the time of Jesus' birth and youth, were retrospectively called rabbis. But in their time they were not called rabbis and it was their followers who first took the titles. According to some Jewish sources rabbi Simeon was amongst the first to take the title, he was the son of Hillel, and considered by some to be the Simeon in the temple that took the infant Jesus in his arms.

So it maybe that Jesus is specifically criticizing the very recent innovation of addressing teachers by titles of respect such as rabbi, master and father. He instructs his disciples to stand out as different, not seeking reward or reverence for their teaching, but seeking instead to be humble servants. Thus, this saying of Jesus has probably nothing to say about our earthly parents and only a general criticism of Catholic usage. It is to be applied even-handedly across all traditions that unduly venerate their ministers, whether by rabbi, reverend, father or pastor. Though, hyperbole accepted, the intention may be relative rather than absolute, calling us not to raise teachers to 'guru' status but to accept equality within the brethren and the hope of Jeremiah 31:34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD', for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them".
Call no man your father - Difficult Sayings- Language Studies - StudyLight.org

but this doesn't matter, since St Paul calls himself, and others, by that title
 
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