"Ancient Alien' ideas because Church alienated from its heritage

yeshuasavedme said in post #38:

Please read and learn...

Chemistry of Seawater

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Note that the chemistry of seawater is very different than the chemistry of the earth's dry land.

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yeshuasavedme said in post #39:

Firstly: earth is not a planet, which means "wandering star" . . .

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Note that the earth is a planet, for it orbits the sun. "Wandering star" was an ancient (and not Biblical) term which simply referred to the other planets which orbit the sun, which only look like stars from the viewpoint of earth (apart from telescopes).

yeshuasavedme said in post #39:

There is no such a thing as a restoration of dry land to earth in Genesis 1.

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Note that there is, for the planet earth was first created by God (some 4.5 billion years ago) in Genesis 1:1.

But then some cataclysm happened (such as a comet strike only some 12 thousand years ago), which covered the earth with water (Genesis 1:2).

Then, as part of a special period of 6 literal days, God restored dry land to the earth on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9,13).

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yeshuasavedme said in post #40:

The face of the heavens was not made until day 2, when God said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters".

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There the firmament is the same as the 1st "heaven", the atmosphere of the earth, which God first created some 4.5 billion years ago (Genesis 1:1).

Genesis 1:6- 8 refers to God restoring the 1st "heaven" (Genesis 1:8) after some cataclysm (such as a comet strike only some 12 thousand years ago).

Bible2+ said:

Note that the chemistry of seawater is very different than the chemistry of the earth's dry land.

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Note that the earth is a planet, for it orbits the sun. "Wandering star" was an ancient (and not Biblical) term which simply referred to the other planets which orbit the sun, which only look like stars from the viewpoint of earth (apart from telescopes).



Note that there is, for the planet earth was first created by God (some 4.5 billion years ago) in Genesis 1:1.

But then some cataclysm happened (such as a comet strike only some 12 thousand years ago), which covered the earth with water (Genesis 1:2).

Then, as part of a special period of 6 literal days, God restored dry land to the earth on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9,13).

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There the firmament is the same as the 1st "heaven", the atmosphere of the earth, which God first created some 4.5 billion years ago (Genesis 1:1).

Genesis 1:6- 8 refers to God restoring the 1st "heaven" (Genesis 1:8) after some cataclysm (such as a comet strike only some 12 thousand years ago).

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You write opinions, only, not founded in the facts of the Written Word of God.
And you are in error on all of them as pertaining to the creation.

As to the elements: there is not one on earth that is not found in seawater, and it does not matter the amounts of them, for God made the primal waters pregnant, in a manner of speaking, in the beginning, with the elements that He would form every created thing out of.
He spoke to the waters on day 3 to be gathered together in one place, and for the "dry" to appear out the waters. The composition of the elements of the" dry", that He named "earth" are all found in seawater.

SummaScriptura said:

Divorced from Enoch in Latin and Greek Christianity, incorrect understandings of Genesis 6:1-4, 1 Peter 3:18-20, 2 Peter 2:4-10, Jude, and other passages meant an ignorance in the Church and culture in general concerning the events before the flood. This pervasive ignorance has left a vacuum into which ancient alien theories are now aggressively entering.

It is intriguing to watch today in popular culture we seem to be witness to the birth of a new mythology in which pre-flood artifacts, building projects, and events are being explained in terms of ancient aliens and astronauts. These ideas might seem more palatable to people in a technological age, but they are mythology nonetheless.

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That is true. But much of the extr-biblical book of Enoch is also pure mythology invented thousands of years after the actual person of Enoch was on Earth.

SummaScriptura said:

For instance?

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For instance ? what? are you asking if Enoch lived at the time of Christ or if he lived 2 or 3 centuries before Christ?

Or are you asking if the stories about aliens coming to earth and forming families with human women are in fact fiction?

Or the nonsense about demons sending Enoch to God to intercede for them??

Chapter 15


1Then addressing me, He spoke and said, Hear, neither be afraid, O righteous Enoch, you scribe of righteousness: approach hither, and hear my voice. Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent you to pray for them, You ought to pray for men, and not men for you.

2Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring? (23)

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SummaScriptura said:

The idea that angels copulated with human women is a Biblical one.

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And...apparently some will fall in this end of the age, or else there are some still around, though smaller, because in Adam, there are no "bastards", for all the seed of human beings out of the loins of the sons of Adam have one legal, created father, the first, firstborn son of God of the Adam kind -who is dead in spirit, corrupted in flesh and unclean in soul , and we are all born in that nature. Though we are orphans in that nature, we are legitimately born as his seed, and are not called "bastards", ever, in the Word of God.
There are two times the word is used in the OT, and both are speaking of the offspring of the fallen watchers, I believe.
Ten generations of breeding back into the Adam cleanses that evil spirit out of one's DNA flesh, it seems...but that would be females only, for the male carries the remnant of the spirit of the kind, and the flesh of the kind seems to take ten generations to be clean enough to enter the congregation of YHWH.
In Enoch, the offspring of illegal fornication are called "bastards", and in
Zec 9:6
"And a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod"...
The bastard dwelling in Ashdod is an offspring of the ben elohym and bath Adam, I believe.
The tares Jesus mentions are "bastard wheat", and they are gathered by angels, bundled up, and cast into the Lake of Fire, with no judgment, when Jesus returns to cleanse His kingdom which He purchased and to reign over it. Enoch writes to them that the offspring will be disembodied and roam earth, tormenting and torturing the flesh of the Adam creation, until the end, when they are cast into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented and tortured by the satans, there, because their fathers became subject to the satans and took daughters of Adam and cursed themselves to never enter heaven, and their heavenly bodies, again.
Jesus is specific that the tares are seeded in the world, by the enemy, not in the Church.

yeshuasavedme said in post #48:

. . . in Adam, there are no "bastards" . . .

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Note that Adamic, nonelect humans are called bastards in Hebrews 12:8, in the sense that God doesn't consider nonelect humans to be of His family, but the children of the devil (John 8:42-47, Matthew 13:38-42).

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The elect are those individuals, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith in Jesus Christ and His Gospel at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b; 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12). So it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). For the ability to believe in Jesus and His Gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Holy Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of non-Christians so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

yeshuasavedme said in post #48:

The tares Jesus mentions are "bastard wheat", and they are gathered by angels, bundled up, and cast into the Lake of Fire, with no judgment . . .

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Note that they will be judged, for Matthew 13:42 is Revelation 20:15, at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

That is, regarding the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30,36-43), in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect, and the tares are the nonelect, the human children of Satan, who can't ever believe in Jesus Christ (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 won't (as is sometimes claimed) occur at Jesus' future, Second Coming, but will occur at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when non-Christians of all times will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43, the Kingdom of God the Father is after the Great White Throne Judgment, when a New Earth (a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in His literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the Church on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

Bible2, you just made a contextual, irrelevant to the conversation, not true, assumption.
In Adam we come into our being in the separation of the first death because of the defilement of our flesh at the fall of our first father. In Adam we are written in the book of life to come into our being in our pre-appointed time, and Jesus came to be our kinsman/redeemer.

We can only be blotted out of the book of life, we cannot be added to it. We are born in Adam, as candidates for the redemption. Jesus died for every human being soul that has ever been born in Adam. Every Adam person is born with the light that is Christ in them, in the hopes that seeking, that light they will find. John 1, Acts 17.
One can only reject, neglect, or deny that light that is Christ. One can only get their name blotted out of the book of life. They can never get it added to it, because they are already born in Adam, and only those predestined to be born in Adam are written in that Book, and Jesus died for the Redemption of each seed of Adam who has ever or shall ever be born in the Adam being.
We have a father in Adam and we are not bastards in Adam, which was the context that the Scripture gives.

If one is not born of the one living spirit then they are not sons of God, in Christ, because Adam is not a son of God anymore we who are in Adam must be born again in the one living spirit, which is Christ, to be a son of God in the new man name

yeshuasavedme said in post #50:

In Adam we are written in the book of life . . .

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Only the elect are, for not everyone is:

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

yeshuasavedme said in post #50:

Jesus died for every human being soul that has ever been born in Adam.

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Actually, He didn't.

For Jesus Christ's sheep whom He died to save (John 10:11,14-15) are the elect (1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:1), those who are able to believe in Him (John 10:27), and who will believe in Him at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b), as opposed to the nonelect, who can't ever believe in Him (John 8:42-47), because they aren't His sheep (John 10:26).

yeshuasavedme said in post #50:

Every Adam person is born with the light that is Christ in them, in the hopes that seeking, that light they will find. John 1, Acts 17.

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Regarding John 1:9, it can refer to Jesus Christ being the source of human consciousness in general. It doesn't contradict double predestination (Romans 9:11-24), which means that some humans are nonelect children of the devil who can never believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47, Matthew 13:38b-39).

Regarding Acts 17:26, its "one blood" would simply mean that nonelect humans are no different genetically than elect humans.

Regarding Acts 17:27-28, the desire to seek the omnipresent God isn't in anyone before they become a Christian (Romans 3:11). And the nonelect aren't considered by God to be His children, but the children of the devil (John 8:42-47, Matthew 13:38b-39), even though they can only exist because God exists, just as even the devil himself can only exist because God exists.

yeshuasavedme said in post #50:

We have a father in Adam and we are not bastards in Adam . . .

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We are if we are nonelect (Hebrews 12:8).

The Book of Life: every Adam seed is written in it, by name, and can only get their name blotted out of the Book of Life - and then, their names will not appear there after they are blotted out.... and that is not because of God, but because of their own own rejection of, neglect of seeking, or blasphemy of, the true understanding and knowledge of that Light. That is what happened to Judas, and what God said he would do to Israel and Moses pled for them and asked that his own name be blotted out, but them redeemed.


If one is not written in the book of Life then they are not of Adam, and they have no father in Adam and therefore no promise of redemption in the Atonement for the Adam creation. If one is not written in the Book of Life, which was written from the foundation of the world, then they are not an Adam seed/soul/person, flesh, blood, bone, nor spirit of and in, Adam.
Each seed created in the loins of Adam was already written in the Book of Life, and their time/season to be born and time/season to die, was written in that Book.
Each seed created in the loins of the firstborn son of God of the human being kind was in his loins in the garden, when he defiled his being; and each seed created in the beginning, in the loins of Adam, was given the promise of the redemption to come, in the Seed of the Woman [the Seed is the Kinsman/Redeemer/God the Word, and the Woman is the City of God above, who became a barren widow when Adam died in spirit and all his seed [us] died in his loins, as sons of God; therefore, She had no sons to build the City of God up, for the Glory, which is what Adam was created and made male and female, for.

The sons born out of Adam's loins were predestined to be the living stones to build the living temple not made with hands, for the Glory to indwell, so as to "plant the heavens"...
There are Scriptures for everything I just wrote, but this is totally derailing the thread. Go start another one if you want to keep preaching such false doctrines using massive opinion and out of context Scriptures.

The Book of Life is found in the Book of Enoch, first, and the theme runs through Moses' writings and all the way through to Revelation.
Human beings/Adam souls, only, are written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.
Tares are not written there, and are not sons of Adam.
No one born in Adam is a tare, which means "bastard wheat": they can look like, resemble an Adam, but they are not Adam souls/persons, nor of the one Adam spirit.

Jesus died for every human being soul that has ever been born in Adam, and He is the Light that lights every man/human] that comes into the world. The Light is lighting them [seeking them], in the hopes that they may seek that light, and seeking, may find.
John 1:4 -John 1:9
Acts 17
26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

SummaScriptura said:

I have come to the same conclusion. In Enoch 108:3, the Book of Life is mentioned and throughout the Bible and other early Jewish literature. Initially, all the living are enrolled in the Book of Life. However, the soul that sins, shall die, wrote Ezekiel, and when someone dies without the redemption that comes through Jesus Christ, their name is then blotted out of the book. At the end of time, the Book of Life will then be referred to as the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 13:8), because by then the only names remaining in the book will be those who have trusted Christ and have been redeemed by Christ, the Lamb of God. The question to every on of us is 'will your name be listed in the book on that day'?

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Amen...
When Jesus told the disciples who were excited that even the demons were subject to them in His name, He told them to rather rejoice that their names were written in heaven...
He told that to them before they were born of the One Living Spirit, which He breathed into them as the birth from above, after His resurrection. So they were not yet at that time born again of Christ's One Living Spirit, for He had not yet atoned for the Adam race, but they were to rejoice that their names were written in heaven. That comes from Enoch, as a foundational doctrine, and the blotting out of names comes from Enoch, also, as a foundational doctrine.
Enoch said, in chapter 38:2 "...Where then will be the dwelling of the sinners,
And where the resting-place of those who have denied the Lord of Spirits?
It had been good for them if they had not been born."

Jesus, referring to what Enoch wrote, applied that to Judas, and Peter also did apply the passage about his name being blotted out, which is in Enoch, first, and David prophesied what Peter applied to Judas.
So Judas' name was written in the book of Life before any of the disciples were born from above of the Living Spirit/Christ, and Judas' name was blotted out.
That does a pretzel twist to the Calvin doctrine that was being espoused.

Psalm 69: 25- And let them not come into Your righteousness.
28
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living,
And not be written with the righteous.
Acts 1: 20, and Psalm 109:8

yeshuasavedme said in post #55:

So Judas' name was written in the book of Life before any of the disciples were born from above of the Living Spirit/Christ, and Judas' name was blotted out. That does a pretzel twist to the Calvin doctrine that was being espoused.

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Note that what has been presented has not been based on Calvin, but the Bible.

Also, Judas' case simply proves that elect people can lose their salvation. I.e., there is no "once saved always saved".

For even though Judas the apostle was chosen/elect/saved/empowered like the other apostles (Luke 6:13-16, Mark 6:7-13, Matthew 19:28), he still subsequently became a devil (John 6:70-71) who would ultimately become unsaved (Mark 14:21), because he wrongly employed his free will to begin to love money more than Jesus Christ (John 12:3-6, Mark 14:3-11; cf. 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 6:24).

Ephesians 2:1–3 clearly tells us that the thief Judas was not an innocent bystander that satan could so easily claim hold of to take possession and control of. Judas loved money and he covered it with a phony exterior relationship with Jesus that ended with him selling Jesus for 30 pcs of silver. hmnn, just shows me that he got his reward now in this earth. He was serving the wrong master. If he lived today I'm sure he would be flying in his private jet.

ETA but as to salvation maybe in the mind of Jesus when he was talking to the thief on the cross maybe he was thinking of Judas.

Judas 'knew' Jesus, literally. Blessed are they that don't know Jesus but still believe. Whether that makes Judas an exception to the rule or not I don't know.

SummaScriptura said:

Divorced from Enoch in Latin and Greek Christianity, incorrect understandings of Genesis 6:1-4, 1 Peter 3:18-20, 2 Peter 2:4-10, Jude, and other passages meant an ignorance in the Church and culture in general concerning the events before the flood. This pervasive ignorance has left a vacuum into which ancient alien theories are now aggressively entering.

It is intriguing to watch today in popular culture we seem to be witness to the birth of a new mythology in which pre-flood artifacts, building projects, and events are being explained in terms of ancient aliens and astronauts. These ideas might seem more palatable to people in a technological age, but they are mythology nonetheless.

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I refuse to accept it as mythology. There is more than enough evidence to suggest Aliens have visited earth in the past. They were here in bible times. Ancient man turned them into God's, Devils, Goblins, Angels and Demons etc.

Stuff like Ark of the covenant was a piece of Alien technology. Its most likely what really brought down the walls of Jerico, not trumpets.

Staff of Moses was Alien technology.