The two witnesses

Servant232 · Dec 11, 2017

Thy Kingdom Come Thy Will be done on Earth

And

It's Going to Happen... During the Millennium, Is when those that were faithful will reign and rule with Him for a thousand Years, Blessed and Holy ~ The First Resurrection

During that Time

The Word of God, The Torah will be Taught to many people from Jerusalem, and the nations will not learn war anymore, swords into plowshares. Isaiah 2:3-5 O House of Jacob

The nations that do not come up to Jerusalem to Worship the King and keep the feast of Tabernacles, no rain. Zechariah 12:16-17

Isa 62:6

I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of YHWH, keep not silence,

And give Him no rest, till He establish, and until He make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2017

Ronald said:
Thanks for the in depth study. I missed the two candlesticks, thinking they were the same as the prophets. Two churches makes sense. Then are they Philadelphia and Smyrna, the faithful and the persecuted churches?

Likely but a church can simply mean a group of people not an official church so it could be two certain groups of people who serve as witnesses of the Truth etc.

I agree with the notion that Enoch and Elijah.
I suppose they will come on the scene as soon as we become aware of the Anti-Christ. But then some would say the Church would need to be raptured for that to happen. ???

Paul places the rapture happening after the resurrection so that happens after the trib.

That never made sense to me since the Anti-Christ go after the church and persecutes them and Israel as well. Persecution is going on now. Maybe when they say Peace and Safety? But it does seem clear that these two witnesses begin this Great Tribulation. But another confusion is that I always believed the GT was only 3 1/2 years, not 7 as many believe.

Christ said the trib was shortened so it was 7 years but was changed to 3.5 years. It is written Satan persecutes the church:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That's Christians...

The Times · Dec 11, 2017

AlasBabylon said:
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The Rev 20 '1000 year reigning with Christ kingdom' is the NT version of Ezekiel 37. Both OT/NT versions are national resurrections and both versions are followed by the end of the age invasion of Gog/Magog [which is happening NOW !!]

See my related topic for more info about this.

Rev 20:1-9 = Ezekiel 37, 38 & 39

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There are two milleniums. The first millenium is Satan and his clan, from the chaining of the Beast in the 1st Century, until Christ's return, where Satan also meets his second death in the lake of fire. Then Jesus comes in the final judgment of the dead to open the books, and to raise his bride. Beyond this point hell and death cannot continue and the 1st heaven and the 1st earth dissolves. When Jesus returns the books will be opened and the wedding supper of the lamb will usher in the heavenly eternal millenium reign of the saved.

Two millenium reigns. When Satan goes to the lake of fire and the books are opened, then the millenium of the saved begins. Peter even states.......

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. (2 Peter 3:7)

Day of judgment begins before the millenium of the saved begins in Heaven, in Christ's Father's house.

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

DavidPT said:
I'm sure it all happens exactly like that in this same twinkining of an eye----not. Which then makes nonsense out of the following for one----

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

Before they are buried, they are first given as a feast to the birds, which follows after the 2nd coming, where Revelation 19:21 occurs first, which then leads to this bird feast, which then leads to the seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. I'm sure we can fit this 7 months into this same twinkling of an eye as well----not.

Well we know from Matthew 24:27 Jesus appears like lightning, and a twinkling of an eye seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52, might be splitting hairs, but its gonna be quick.

"Behold I Come Quickly" Revelation 22:12

Matthew 25:31-46 clearly teaches Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal kingdom?

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the angels, nations gathered before the throne for judgment?

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous?

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire?

Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life"
and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34?

One thing I do know Dave, there will be no 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans running around after Jesus returns.

"Eternity Has Started"

Servant232 · Dec 11, 2017

A Green Olive Tree

Rev 11:4

These are The Two Olive Trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Jer 11:10

They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear My Words; and they went after other gods to serve them: The House of Israel and The House of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.

Jer 11:16

YHWH called thy name, A Green Olive Tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult He hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

Rom 11:24

For if you were cut out of The Olive Tree which is wild by nature (House of Israel), and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated Olive Tree (House of Judah), how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own Olive Tree?

AlasBabylon · Dec 11, 2017

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The 1000 year reign with Christ was a national resurrection of God's Christ-bearing people in the European Church age when the people, morality, society, church, civil law and monarchs were Christian-based.

Unfortunately the European Christian church age ended a long time ago, to be replaced with antichrist secular pluralistic democracy which led to the falling away and sinful rebellion against God and God's current unleashing of satanic Gog/Magog hordes on all [former] European Christian nations.

Ironically, the Byzantine Christian empire lasted about 1100 years [before Muslims destroyed it.] The Holy Roman Empire lasted almost exactly a 1000 years [before Napoleon destroyed it.] and Christian Tsarist Russia lasted a little over 900 years [before the secular democratic Feb 1917 revolution and the satanic antichrist Bolshevik Oct 1917 revolution destroyed it.]

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Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

AlasBabylon said:
.

The 1000 year reign with Christ was a national resurrection of God's Christ-bearing people in the European Church age when the people, morality, society, church, civil law and monarchs were Christian-based.

Ironically, the Byzantine Christian empire lasted about 1100 years [before Muslims destroyed it.] The Holy Roman Empire lasted almost exactly a 1000 years [before Napoleon destroyed it.] and Christian Tsarist Russia lasted a little over 900 years [before the secular democratic Feb 1917 revolution and the satanic antichrist Bolshevik Oct 1917 revolution destroyed it.]

Unfortunately the European Christian church age ended a long time ago, to be replaced with antichrist secular pluralistic democracy which led to the falling away and sinful rebellion against God and God's current unleashing of satanic Gog/Magog hordes on all [former] European Christian nations.

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What books do you read in your mysticism?

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

The Times said:
There are two milleniums. The first millenium is Satan and his clan, from the chaining of the Beast in the 1st Century, until Christ's return, where Satan also meets his second death in the lake of fire. Then Jesus comes in the final judgment of the dead to open the books, and to raise his bride. Beyond this point hell and death cannot continue and the 1st heaven and the 1st earth dissolves. When Jesus returns the books will be opened and the wedding supper of the lamb will usher in the heavenly eternal millenium reign of the saved.

Two millenium reigns. When Satan goes to the lake of fire and the books are opened, then the millenium of the saved begins. Peter even states.......

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. (2 Peter 3:7)

Day of judgment begins before the millenium of the saved begins in Heaven, in Christ's Father's house.

When do you believe the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem Takes Place as seen in Isaiah 65:17-19, Revelation 21:1-5?

Do you believe Revelation Chapters 21 & 22 Is the eternal state for the righteous, after the final judgment?

Do you believe the unsaved wicked will be eternally judged to the lake of fire, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:11-15?

Thanks for your response

AlasBabylon · Dec 11, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
What books do you read in your mysticism?

God has led me in my study of the Bible and history.

The Bible itself is largely a history book. One can not
truly understand the Bible without also understanding
its accompanying historic foundations. For example,
one can not truly undestand the NT without the OT
because OT historic themes carry over to the NT.

.

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

AlasBabylon said:
God has led me in my study of the Bible and history.

The Bible itself is largely a history book. One can not
truly understand the Bible without also understanding
its accompanying historic foundations. For example,
one can not truly undestand the NT without the OT
because OT historic themes carry over to the NT.
.

You state under your forum name your "Mystic" how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

The Times said:
It makes sense, that Jesus our Crowned Monarch is Israel, since according to Jesus, Paul and the Apostles, the Kingdom of God had come, not the waye Jews of that time expected to be.

Jesus sat on the right hand of the Father, fulfilling the Prophecies of Danial 7:13-14...

13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Past tense of the verb "given", is harmonious to what God had planned from the very beginning, when he had informed Daniel as follows....

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Daniel 2:44)

Jesus is the Crowned Monarch, the Anointed Most High of the commonwealth of Israel,

12In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope. 13But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2:12-13)

Being united with Christ, declares us as Abraham's seed and heirs to the promise, therefore we are citizens of Israel. Israel is Jesus, because where the Crowned Monarch resides over, his Church, there the commonwealth of Israel, that is the Kingdom is.

In conclusion to Christ being Israel, then the Church must be the fenceless city Jerusalem, the Menorah of God, depicted as the seven lamp candlestick holder in Zechariah 4 and Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Zechariah 14 mentions Jerusalem, the City of Peace, which is the Church, who has the anointing and unction, within the Great Commission, to pour out the Golden oil of salvation. This means the Church stands firm on the two/duo pillars/trees (Law and the Prophets) , that supply the bowl that is over the Menorah, by which the Menorah/Church is the conduit to selling The Gold of Christ to the world, through the preaching of the gospel, within the timeframe/door of Grace.

Unavoidable truth is the glory of Christ as the seller of the Golden Oil of salvation, through his precious and purchased by Blood Church/Bride.

To deflect from the unavoidable truth, is to serve another kingdom, an earthly kingdom that is being readied for the other guy.

I agree with everything except your explanation of the "Two Witnesses"

Zechariah 4:11-14

Verse 12 " Themselves" does not fit biblical grammar in representation of the church.

Verse 14 "Two Anointed Ones"
The church is always described as "One" one body, one faith, one assembly, neither Jew/Greek, Rich/Poor, Male/Female but "One"

Verse 14 in "Two Anointed Ones" contradicts biblical grammar as being the church.

"Two Anointed Ones" & "Themselves" points to Revelation 11 and two literal bodies, that will bring literal plagues, that will literally die, lay in a literal street, in a literal Jerusalem, as literal human eyes, will watch them be raised to heaven.

The Times · Dec 11, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
When do you believe the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem Takes Place as seen in Isaiah 65:17-19, Revelation 21:1-5?

Isaiah 65:17-25 is what the Preterists love to quote. I agree the new Heaven, the new earth and the New Jerusalem is one that replaces the former temple centred one. The former is replaced with the newer.

I believe, that the language like.....

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. (Isaiah 65:9)

Conveys the 1st advent of Jesus, when he came as the promised seed to establish his Church mountain/congregation. However, I do believe that Revelation 21:1-5 is the return of Jesus, when the promises of Isaiah, the inheritance are realised within the new Heavenly incorruptible bodies.

Hebrews 9:15-17 clearly states, that the promise to eternal inheritance is only realised after the testator/witness in Christ dies and the earthly body is no more. Paul even declared with much anticipation and expectation, after he would be poured out as a drink offering, meaning he was to be martyred, that afterwards he will be awarded the victors crown by the righteous Judge on that day, at his Appearing, that is the day of judgement at Christ's return. (2 Timothy 4:6-8)

7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. (Revelation 21:7)
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega (Revelation 21:6)

God in other words declares, consider those promises done. The question is when are they done?

Notice, Jesus said ......

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown. (Revelation 2:10)

It becomes clear, when considering Jesus, Hebrews, the Apostle Paul, that the race finishes when the fat lady sings, meaning......

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (Hebrews 12:4)

That is, Paul's and every apostles expectation of receiving their eternal inheritance, their crown of righteousness, is after they as witnesses finish their race and to depart from this temporal realm.

Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe Revelation Chapters 21 & 22 Is the eternal state for the righteous, after the final judgment?

Not so in the figurative eternal state, rather eternal being, that is only realised in their new heavenly bodies, after they depart from this temporal life to receive their eternal inheritance and to forever be with the Lord and to see him as he is, in his glorified body, in his Father's house.

2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)

So, the oldest Apostle John and post Pentecost, states that our hope is to continue to purify ourselves, in other being faithful even onto death a Jesus instructed. Obviously John thought himself not yet like Jesus, even though he was born again (John 3:5), yet he alluded that being like him and seeing him as he is points to the post temporal earth glorified heavenly bodies, that they hold out the hope of receiving, otherwise what is the point of being martyred for your faith, if this realm is all there is to existence.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)

Notice the apostles had seen Jesus the first time in their lifetime and so the second time he returns or appears to them, will be when they become like him without sin, meaning sinless and to see him as he is in his glorified heavenly body.

Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe the unsaved wicked will be eternally judged to the lake of fire, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:11-15?

Yes, after the books are opened at Christ's return, at the final Judgement of the dead, and death and hell can no longer continue past this point and so too the first heaven and the first earth will be dissolved by fire as Peter said in 2 Peter 3:7.

Truth7t7 said:
Thanks for your response

Likewise! Thank you.

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

The Times said:
Isaiah 65:17-25 is what the Preterists love to quote. I agree the new Heaven, the new earth and the New Jerusalem is one that replaces the former temple centred one. The former is replaced with the newer.

I believe, that the language like.....

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. (Isaiah 65:9)

Conveys the 1st advent of Jesus, when he came as the promised seed to establish his Church mountain/congregation. However, I do believe that Revelation 21:1-5 is the return of Jesus, when the promises of Isaiah, the inheritance are realised within the new Heavenly incorruptible bodies.

Hebrews 9:15-17 clearly states, that the promise to eternal inheritance is only realised after the testator/witness in Christ dies and the earthly body is no more. Paul even declared with much anticipation and expectation, after he would be poured out as a drink offering, meaning he was to be martyred, that afterwards he will be awarded the victors crown by the righteous Judge on that day, at his Appearing, that is the day of judgement at Christ's return. (2 Timothy 4:6-8)

7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. (Revelation 21:7)
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega (Revelation 21:6)

God in other words declares, consider those promises done. The question is when are they done?

Notice, Jesus said ......

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown. (Revelation 2:10)

It becomes clear, when considering Jesus, Hebrews, the Apostle Paul, that the race finishes when the fat lady sings, meaning......

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (Hebrews 12:4)

That is, Paul's and every apostles expectation of receiving their eternal inheritance, their crown of righteousness, is after they as witnesses finish their race and to depart from this temporal realm.

Not so in the figurative eternal state, rather eternal being, that is only realised in their new heavenly bodies, after they depart from this temporal life to receive their eternal inheritance and to forever be with the Lord and to see him as he is, in his glorified body, in his Father's house.

2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)

So, the oldest Apostle John and post Pentecost, states that our hope is to continue to purify ourselves, in other being faithful even onto death a Jesus instructed. Obviously John thought himself not yet like Jesus, even though he was born again (John 3:5), yet he alluded that being like him and seeing him as he is points to the post temporal earth glorified heavenly bodies, that they hold out the hope of receiving, otherwise what is the point of being martyred for your faith, if this realm is all there is to existence.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)

Notice the apostles had seen Jesus the first time in their lifetime and so the second time he returns or appears to them, will be when they become like him without sin, meaning sinless and to see him as he is in his glorified heavenly body.

Yes, after the books are opened at Christ's return, at the final Judgement of the dead, and death and hell can no longer continue past this point and so too the first heaven and the first earth will be dissolved by fire as Peter said in 2 Peter 3:7.

Likewise! Thank you.

You didnt really explain the eternal state, to my understanding?

"I'm Not Preterist"

I agree This earth will be dissolved by fire 2 Peter 3:10-13 however verse 13 states we are to look for the New Heaven and Earth.

I believe the righteous will obtain glorified, eternal bodies.

You don't believe Isaiah 65:17-19 and Revelation 21:1-5 is the same description of the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

Do you believe Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 is the same river and tree of life?

How do you see the eternal kingdom to be?

Harps and angels?

A renewed garden of eden?

Will animals be present?

Will the righteous eat fruit from the tree of life?

Trying to understand your view of the eternal kingdom?

AlasBabylon · Dec 11, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
You state under your forum name your "Mystic" how did you arrive at this conclusion?

God has led me in my study of the Bible and history.
God has also given me personal insights with this study.

.

Douggg · Dec 11, 2017

ewq1938 said:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That's Christians...

Yes, they are Christians.

Revelation 1:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John was a Christian, and a Jew. The ones in Revelation 12:17 are Christians, and also are Jews. They are the ones who did not flee out of Jerusalem in time when the abomination of desolation is setup to be worshiped.

They will be stuck in Jerusalem, persecuted, until Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, splitting the Mt of Olives to save them.

Zechariah 14:
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The Times · Dec 11, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
I agree with everything except your explanation of the "Two Witnesses"

Ok. Let us look at the versus in question......

With reference to Zechariah 4-11-14

Truth7t7 said:
Verse 12 " Themselves" does not fit biblical grammar in representation of the church.

Picture the two golden pipes or conduits from the pair/duo/two of olive trees feeding the bowl as the source of the Golden oil. The bowl or reservoir then streams oil to the seven lamp Menorah of God.

Revelation of Jesus Christ follows on from this as follows.....

I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. the seven lampstands are the seven churches.the seven lampstands are the seven churches.(Revelation 1:12:13)

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (Revelation 11:4)

These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:14)

These two olive trees are the source of the golden oil and they fill the reservior of God, his bowl, which overhangs the seven candlesticks, which supply the oil for the seven lamps of the Menorah of God. The lamps use the golden oil as fuel, hence the parable of Jesus in regards to the five foolish virgins (women/churches) who did not purchase the oil, to give light for their lamps. (Matthew 25:1-13)

Hence, in Revelation of Jesus, Jesus instructs......

So I advise you to buy gold from me--gold that has been purified by fire. (Revelation 3:18)

You have the mystery spelled out for you, when the apostate religious woman mystery Babylon has her own golden cup of abominations, in vast contrast to the seven golden candlestick Menorah/Church/Bride of Christ, who is feed from the golden bowl of God, sourced from the two pillars of the New Testament Church olive trees, the Law and the Prophets.

Everything falls into harmony my friend, there is no conjectures, no opinions, no puzzles, just straight out one for one interpretation of scripture relevant to the context of how the golden oil of salvation is dispensed and has been dispensed for the last 2000 years, until the olive tree oil dries out and the door of Grace closes, before the Beast martyrs the Bride of Christ in a world wide Calvary.

Truth7t7 said:
Verse 14 "Two Anointed Ones"

Yes, the two, meaning DUO/pair of olive trees that are the source of oil for the seven lamps and who stand before the Lord, in ministering and dispensing oil, through the seven conduits, that is the seven lamps, that is the Church.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. (Matthew 5:15)

Again Jesus uses the same terminology of the lamps, the bowl and the lamp stands. The bowl is the source of the oil and the lamp as the output, that is work/light.

Truth7t7 said:
The church is always described as "One" one body, one faith, one assembly, neither Jew/Greek, Rich/Poor, Male/Female but "One"

Correct. The Menorah is one, yet the seven lamps is the completed works of God, through his seven Spirits

There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day. (Zechariah 3:9)

One cornerstone, hence one body, yet seven paths of dispensation of oil, through the Menorah of God, his Church, his one body.

John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, (Revelation 1:4)

These seven ministering spirits before the Lord's throne are seven dispensations of the golden oil, through his one cornerstone/Church (body).

those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:10)

Zechariah 3:9 and 4:10 and Revelation 1:4, highlight the seven dispensations of the golden oil, through the one Menorah/Church/Cornerstone. The oil must be associated with the seven ministering spirits, within the context of the Great Commission to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We see the gospel termed as the flying scroll, that was given from Heaven....

1I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2He asked me, “What do you see?”

I answered, “I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide. ”

3And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’ ” (Zechariah 5:1-4)

Truth7t7 said:
Verse 14 in "Two Anointed Ones" contradicts biblical grammar as being the church.

If you reread the above responses and scrutinise them to your heart's content, you will revise your position, I am sure of it.

There can not be dispensations of oil outside of the Church (one body), otherwise it would be identified as the golden cup of mystery Babylon, the Harlot.

Truth7t7 said:
"Two Anointed Ones" & "Themselves" points to Revelation 11 and two literal bodies, that will bring literal plagues, that will literally die, lay in a literal street, in a literal Jerusalem, as literal human eyes, will watch them be raised to heaven.

If there was two literal persons who would pour out golden oil outside of the seven ministering spirits of the one historic Church, then they would be part and parcel of Mystery Babylon, the end time Harlot, who carries in her hand her own golden cup of abominations.

If you cannot trace or associate the dispensation of the golden oil from the 1st century Church onwards, then we have a new player in town, called mystery Babylon.

ewq1938 · Dec 11, 2017

The Times said:
The term two in the Greek is........

1417. duo ►
Strong's Concordance
duo: two
Original Word: δύο
Part of Speech: Adjective; Indeclinable Numeral (Adjective)
Transliteration: duo

Duo in the Greek means pair, where one depends on the other, just like a pair of shoes, a pair of socks. One cannot go without the other and are therefore interdependent on one another.

No the Greek word does not mean that which is why the Strong definition doesn't include that. Duo is Greek for the word TWO. It doesn't mean anything else that that. Two means two as in 2.

The Times · Dec 11, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
You didnt really explain the eternal state, to my understanding?

Sorry friend, please accept my apology, for I will try again to answer your pertinent questions below.

Truth7t7 said:
"I'm Not Preterist"

Good to know, excellent!

Truth7t7 said:
I agree This earth will be dissolved by fire 2 Peter 3:10-13 however verse 13 states we are to look for the New Heaven and Earth.

Absolutely, I concur!

Truth7t7 said:
I believe the righteous will obtain glorified, eternal bodies.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Truth7t7 said:
You don't believe Isaiah 65:17-19 and Revelation 21:1-5 is the same description of the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

No, Isaiah 65 marks the 1st advent of Jesus where Jesus arose, ascended up to the Father and was anointed as our Crowned Monarch, by the Ancient of Days (The Father), and was given an Eternal Heavenly Kingdom. Jesus would advise his disciples that he would make accomodation for them, who leave this temporal life to be forever with him in his Father's house. Paul would say, to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8)

Revelation 21 is his return to consecrate his bride and to usher in the Eternal millenium reign in his Father's house. There is no purpose for the Old heaven and the old earth to continue.

Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 is the same river and tree of life?

I believe that Ezekiel is doing his best to describe a realm which has a different purpose and function. I see that he uses worldly objects living and non-living and names of places to portray a wonderful place of plenty. I believe he is trying to convey Heavenly Jerusalem being partitioned into the Northern and Southern portions, that is the Old Testament Saints as say the North and the New Testament as the South.

I believe that the river is what partitions North from South and that the Lord's presence will be along that line of partition of the mountain /congregations valley mentioned in Zechariah 4:5.

The River I believe is Christ's presence in the midst of the northern and southern mountains/congregations, both former sea (Old Testament) and the latter sea (New Testament).

Notice mount of Olives is a term used for Christ's presence and is located along the east to west corridor of the Heavenly New Jerusalem, that is the line of demarcation, that segregates the northern congregation (Old Testament saints) from the southern congregation (New Testament saints).

1Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. 2Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
8Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
18And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side.
20The west side also shall be the great sea from the border, till a man come over against Hamath. This is the west side.

The Great sea that number as the sand of the sea, are the New Testament saints.

So it seems Ezekiel is using literal terminology to convey purpose and function, yet the literal is merely a prop that he is using to emphasise his conveying of the purpose and function.

Truth7t7 said:
How do you see the eternal kingdom to be?

It will not be like this realm. Even John in 1 John 3:2 says....

what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Truth7t7 said:
Harps and angels?

I don't know.

Truth7t7 said:
A renewed garden of eden?

Not like the constructs of the old one, which accommodated the dirt man. As Paul would say.....

47The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. (1 Corinthians 15:47-49)

Truth7t7 said:
Will animals be present?

No need, for the animals/beasts were made for Adam to keep him company, where he was given dominion over them. The focus in the Heavenly Realm is the Lord's presence, the very river of life that both the northern and southern congregations will flock to. Animals no longer serve a purpose and function and will detract from the central focus figure.

Truth7t7 said:
Will the righteous eat fruit from the tree of life?

Eating according to the new bodies is not required. The food there will be pure light eminating from the Lord.

Truth7t7 said:
Trying to understand your view of the eternal kingdom?

Sure, I view it in vast contrast to what we know today, in our earthly bodies. John in 1 John 3:2 states that he didn't know how it will be like, but when we are raised, we will only know then what it will be like, when we see Jesus as he is in his glorified body.

Truth7t7 · Dec 11, 2017

The Times said:
Ok. Let us look at the versus in question......

With reference to Zechariah 4-11-14

Picture the two golden pipes or conduits from the pair/duo/two of olive trees feeding the bowl as the source of the Golden oil. The bowl or reservoir then streams oil to the seven lamp Menorah of God.

Revelation of Jesus Christ follows on from this as follows.....

I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. the seven lampstands are the seven churches.the seven lampstands are the seven churches.(Revelation 1:12:13)

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (Revelation 11:4)

These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:14)

These two olive trees are the source of the golden oil and they fill the reservior of God, his bowl, which overhangs the seven candlesticks, which supply the oil for the seven lamps of the Menorah of God. The lamps use the golden oil as fuel, hence the parable of Jesus in regards to the five foolish virgins (women/churches) who did not purchase the oil, to give light for their lamps. (Matthew 25:1-13)

Hence, in Revelation of Jesus, Jesus instructs......

So I advise you to buy gold from me--gold that has been purified by fire. (Revelation 3:18)

You have the mystery spelled out for you, when the apostate religious woman mystery Babylon has her own golden cup of abominations, in vast contrast to the seven golden candlestick Menorah/Church/Bride of Christ, who is feed from the golden bowl of God, sourced from the two pillars of the New Testament Church olive trees, the Law and the Prophets.

Everything falls into harmony my friend, there is no conjectures, no opinions, no puzzles, just straight out one for one interpretation of scripture relevant to the context of how the golden oil of salvation is dispensed and has been dispensed for the last 2000 years, until the olive tree oil dries out and the door of Grace closes, before the Beast martyrs the Bride of Christ in a world wide Calvary.

Yes, the two, meaning DUO/pair of olive trees that are the source of oil for the seven lamps and who stand before the Lord, in ministering and dispensing oil, through the seven conduits, that is the seven lamps, that is the Church.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. (Matthew 5:15)

Again Jesus uses the same terminology of the lamps, the bowl and the lamp stands. The bowl is the source of the oil and the lamp as the output, that is work/light.

Correct. The Menorah is one, yet the seven lamps is the completed works of God, through his seven Spirits

There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day. (Zechariah 3:9)

One cornerstone, hence one body, yet seven paths of dispensation of oil, through the Menorah of God, his Church, his one body.

John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, (Revelation 1:4)

These seven ministering spirits before the Lord's throne are seven dispensations of the golden oil, through his one cornerstone/Church (body).

those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:10)

Zechariah 3:9 and 4:10 and Revelation 1:4, highlight the seven dispensations of the golden oil, through the one Menorah/Church/Cornerstone. The oil must be associated with the seven ministering spirits, within the context of the Great Commission to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We see the gospel termed as the flying scroll, that was given from Heaven....

1I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2He asked me, “What do you see?”

I answered, “I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide. ”

3And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’ ” (Zechariah 5:1-4)

If you reread the above responses and scrutinise them to your heart's content, you will revise your position, I am sure of it.

There can not be dispensations of oil outside of the Church (one body), otherwise it would be identified as the golden cup of mystery Babylon, the Harlot.

If there was two literal persons who would pour out golden oil outside of the seven ministering spirits of the one historic Church, then they would be part and parcel of Mystery Babylon, the end time Harlot, who carries in her hand her own golden cup of abominations.

If you cannot trace or associate the dispensation of the golden oil from the 1st century Church onwards, then we have a new player in town, called mystery Babylon.

Zechariah 4:11-14

I see the two witnesses as being the conduits of the golden oil in literal future plagues, the vials hold the oil/odours that are the prayers of the saints, as the oil is poured from "Themselves" upon the beast/world Revelation 5:8

Like a literal remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh.

I would agree the witnesses are part of the church in the wilderness, however they will have physical bodies that will die literally.

I don't see a symbolic representation in Revelation 11:1-15 for bodies, street, Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified, people sending gifts, bodies raised in the sight of the world, great earthquake, city falling?

Literal Not Symbolic.

You believe in a future literal destruction of this world by the Lords fire, and you can't see his prejudgment in literal plagues at the command of physical prophets returned?

The Times · Dec 11, 2017

ewq1938 said:
No the Greek word does not mean that which is why the Strong definition doesn't include that. Duo is Greek for the word TWO. It doesn't mean anything else that that. Two means two as in 2.

Are they two separate and two independent olive trees?

If they are both standing before the Lord, then they have to be interdependent on one another and at the same time be the source of oil for the bowl reservior of God, which in turn delivers the oil to the seven candlestick Menorah, in order to output Light through the seven lamps into the world, through the ministry of the seven spirits/dispensations of God, that is his seven candlestick Menorah, his one established Church, from the 1st Century continuous to the end of ministry of the anointed pillars, hence end of Grace.

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