LDS How did the Mormon Jesus get his Exaltation?

Peter1000 said:

Again, if God is in everyyhing, then everything is in God. And if everything is in God, then everything is in the Godhead, or the Trinity. You cannot pick and choose.

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Is God in Heavenly Mother?
If yes, is she in the Godhead?
If no, why did Heavenly Father marry outside of the Godhead?

mmksparbud said:

You think so?? However, the Jesus you believe in is not the same Jesus of the bible. God the Father, is not the same God as the God of the bible. When He asks why you believe the Father was human before He became God all you can say is that JS said so. The bible says He is not a man that He should lie and you would not believe His word but chose to believe the words of a man instead. When He asks why you believe that man existed before being born, that Adam and Eve existed before He breathed life into them when the bible says no such thing, what can you day except that JS said so? When you are asked why you believe that there is marriage in heaven when Jesus says there isn't all you can say is --JS said so. Bottom line---JS is who you believe, not the word of God. If you do not know God--will He know you? Or will He say:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are those that accepted His name and did things in the name of Jesus--not unbelievers. Anything we may have wrong we can still say, we believed this because your word said so. You can not. I trust in Jesus and His Father to save me--you are trusting in JS no matter how much you may deny it. You hope for the day something will be dug up that will prove he is a real prophet---we already can say he has been proven to not be real and does not agree with the bible---when God asks why we did not believe in him, we will say--you're word proved he was not of you. When you are asked why you believed him instead of the bible, what can you say? Your word is deceptive and distorted and his was not??? Good luck with that one.

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I will reiterate. If I am right, you will not be happy with your life in the eternities. This is not necessarily from JS, but it also includes the bible.

If you are right, and all we need to be saved is believe and confess Jesus, then I will be OK too, because I believe in Jesus, and I have been baptized with both water and the HS. Therefore according to your 1/2 of the bible, I will be saved too.

So you say that my Jesus isn't the same as your Jesus. My only response is there are thousands of Christian churches, and who knows how many Jesus's there are from those thousands.

Or do you think Jesus understands the thousands of nuiances that exist about him, and he will in just a few minutes catch every believer up, as to exactly who he is and his relationship with God, his Father. So that in just a few minutes all the believers will know the real Jesus. (hint: there is only 1 Jesus regardless of the thousands of beliefs about him).

So I believe in a few minutes every believer will know the real Jesus. Now comes the interesting part. If the real Jesus turns out to be the Mormon Jesus, then you are going to have a problem.
If the real Jesus turns out to be the mainline Christians Jesus, then I will be covered, because I now know the true Jesus, but my believing and confessing and being baptized will save me as well as you, for Jesus will forgive me by his grace, even if I thought about him differently than you, as you think differently from the Calvinists, who think differently about him than the Methodists, who think differently about him than the Greek Orthodox, who think differently about him than the RC, that think differently about him than the SDA, etc., etc., etc.

drstevej said:

Is God in Heavenly Mother?
If yes, is she in the Godhead?
If no, why did Heavenly Father marry outside of the Godhead?

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We have not been given that information, so I cannot answer your questions about Heavenly Mother at this time.

Peter1000 said:

I will reiterate. If I am right, you will not be happy with your life in the eternities. This is not necessarily from JS, but it also includes the bible.

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My happiness post resurrection is not based on what I will be getting from God---husband, wives, worlds, power, sex--my happiness is on spending eternity with God and His Son. The other stuff is not of interest to me and I am not thinking about them, except, I do think about going up to a huge bear or lion and rolling in the grass with them without fear of being had for lunch.

Peter1000 said:

If you are right, and all we need to be saved is believe and confess Jesus, then I will be OK too, because I believe in Jesus, and I have been baptized with both water and the HS. Therefore according to your 1/2 of the bible, I will be saved too.

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If our view of life post resurrection is true---you are the one that will be severely let down and unhappy---no marriage, no multiple wives, no different levels, no being a god, and worst of all---no JS. We use all of the bible---and we do not have any other, it is sufficient for salvation. There is no other. I do not expect that anyone has all the details about Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit. We all will be able to see the reality of them. It isn't just that your God is different---He was no God at all before somehow becoming one from a human. That is not in any way shape or form anything like any biblical Christian believes. It plainly states He is no man--and to believe He was once a man, who became God, and that we then can become god too, and that there are other Gods on other worlds with the same creative powers----places you in a position I would not envy, for you actually really do believe in many Gods and that is soooooo not even remotely biblical. For you believe in what Lucifer himself was thrown out of heaven for wanting to be---like the Most High. And I do not want to be standing before God having the same thoughts as he.

Phoebe Ann said:

I already believe all of the Bible.
View attachment 215785
His message is as relevant today as it originally was.

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I am glad you believe it, so you must believe these scriptures then:
James 2:14-17King James Version (KJV)
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Do you believe this bible verse about faith:
James 2:18King James Version (KJV)
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Do you believe this bible verse:
James 2:19-20King James Version (KJV)
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Do you believe this bible verse about how one is justified by faith:
James 2:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Do you also believe this bible verse, again how a man is justified by faith:
James 2:23-24King James Version (KJV)
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Do you finally believe this bible verse:
James 2:25-26King James Version (KJV)
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If you believe the bible, which of the following qualities are most important?
1) faith (belief in Jesus)?
2) hope in Jesus?
3) charity to all?
1 Corinthians 13:13King James Version (KJV)
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Apparently faith (believe) is not the end of being saved, but charity qualities are the end. Faith seems to be at the beginning.


Why does one need to endure to the end to be saved, if you are saved the minute you believe?
Mark 13:13King James Version (KJV)
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


And my favorite:
Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I am aware that the damned need not be baptized. But the saved do. You have to believe this, it is in the bible, and you believe all of the bible. I'm glad we agree.

Again and again and again--the thief on the cross was not baptized!!

mmksparbud said:

My happiness post resurrection is not based on what I will be getting from God---husband, wives, worlds, power, sex--my happiness is on spending eternity with God and His Son. The other stuff is not of interest to me and I am not thinking about them, except, I do think about going up to a huge bear or lion and rolling in the grass with them without fear of being had for lunch.

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I too look forward to playing with a bear or lion like I do my dog or cat.

You may not be interested in exactly the same things that I am interested in, but if I am right, you may not be living with God, who will reside in the Celestial KOH, with those that are married for all eternity.

In my estimation, if you were to die today and not change your position even with information that will be available during the millenium, you will find yourself in the Terrestrial KOH. God will not visit this kingdom, but His son will and you shall have access to him throught all the eternities.

If our view of life post resurrection is true---you are the one that will be severely let down and unhappy---no marriage, no multiple wives, no different levels, no being a god, and worst of all---no JS

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Your right, I will have to adjust to what God and Jesus have to offer just like you. As you say, Their presence will be so magnificent that anything else may not matter.
I think you will be greatly suprised to see JS there, and you will finally get a chance to meet him for real and see what he is really like. I think you will be surprised at how much you will immediately like him.

Peter1000 said:

I too look forward to playing with a bear or lion like I do my dog or cat.

You may not be interested in exactly the same things that I am interested in, but if I am right, you may not be living with God, who will reside in the Celestial KOH, with those that are married for all eternity.

In my estimation, if you were to die today and not change your position even with information that will be available during the millenium, you will find yourself in the Terrestrial KOH. God will not visit this kingdom, but His son will and you shall have access to him throught all the eternities.

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Your right, I will have to adjust to what God and Jesus have to offer just like you. As you say, Their presence will be so magnificent that anything else may not matter.
I think you will be greatly suprised to see JS there, and you will finally get a chance to meet him for real and see what he is really like. I think you will be surprised at how much you will immediately like him.

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We will all be living on the newly made earth---you will be disappointed to be at the same level as everyone else. Jesus will be our sunlight---didn't you get the memo?

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Luk_20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Peter1000 said:

Again, if God is in everyyhing, then everything is in God. And if everything is in God, then everything is in the Godhead, or the Trinity. You cannot pick and choose.

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This is where you go wrong. Who said this was true?? Faulty premise, faulty conclusion. You are arguing against your own strawman.

mmksparbud said:

We will all be living on the newly made earth---you will be disappointed to be at the same level as everyone else. Jesus will be our sunlight---didn't you get the memo?

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Luk_20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

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If you are right, I will be just fine in the presence of God, it will be overpowering. But will it be overpowering in 50,000,000,000 years?

BigDaddy4 said:

This is where you go wrong. Who said this was true?? Faulty premise, faulty conclusion. You are arguing against your own strawman.

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It is not a false premise. There is nothing higher than God, there is nothing lower than God, IOW, God envelopes everything. This is what makes it so God is in everything. But saying that God envelopes everything, you must come to the conclusion that everything is in God.

Thats why I say, you can't pick and choose what is and what is not in God. If there is nothing higher in the north, east, south, and west of God, then God envelopes everything and gives it life. But in saying so, by definition, everything has to be in God.

If you are going to use the omnipresent argument that Jesus and God are 1, then you are stuck with everything is 1 with God, simply because of His omnipresent quality to be in everything and envelope everything.

Peter1000 said:

If you are right, I will be just fine in the presence of God, it will be overpowering. But will it be overpowering in 50,000,000,000 years?

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I'll let you know.

mmksparbud said:

I'll let you know.

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Good response, that's about all we can say.

Phoebe Ann said:

Why do Mormons study and sincerely pray about the Book of Mormon? I studied and sincerely prayed about Mormonism, and God said, "Run!"

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Me too. I suspect God said the same thing to many of them, but they did not listen and tossed aside the warnings as some sort of message from Satan?

Phoebe Ann said:

Their prophets marry outside the first presidency. They have to marry a female and females aren't allowed in the first presidency.

The official First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 1.President Thomas S. Monson, 2.President Henry B. Eyring, and 3.President Dieter F. Uchtdorf.

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Are you sure? Our prophets marry outside the first presidency? You mean Thomas Monson is not married to Henry Eyring?

Are you sure females are not allowed in the first presidency?? I'm looking that up to see if you are right. If females are not allowed in the first presidency, I may leave the church.

Phoebe Ann said:

Why do Mormons study and sincerely pray about the Book of Mormon? I studied and sincerely prayed about Mormonism, and God said, "Run!"

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Why would God tell you to run, and tell me it is true?

Again, we will not know the answer to that until you enter the spirit world at death.

But again, I will say that if you are right, I will be OK, because I am a believer in Jesus and have been baptized of the HS. Therefore according to your beliefs, both you and I will enter into heaven and enjoy eternal life.

But if I am right, and there really is more to the salvation process, you will not like your position in the eternities.

See you in the spirit world.

mmksparbud said:

Me too. I suspect God said the same thing to many of them, but they did not listen and tossed aside the warnings as some sort of message from Satan?

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Why should we listen, necessarily, since we are believers in Jesus and have been baptized of the HS? There is no need to worry, Jesus has done everything necessary to remove my sins and errors, and I will be with you in heaven and together we will enjoy eternal life

Peter1000 said:

Why should we listen, necessarily, since we are believers in Jesus and have been baptized of the HS? There is no need to worry, Jesus has done everything necessary to remove my sins and errors, and I will be with you in heaven and together we will enjoy eternal life

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Are you seriously saying you need not listen to the Holy Spirit?! If the Holy Spirit has said to not believe in something and you do, you are rejecting the Holy Spirit. It is He that guides us into all truth and if you reject Him, you will be rejected.