Doctrines of Devils?

amariselle said:

I wasn't even responding to you. But by all means, accuse me of doing so. It only shows you did not in fact take the time to read what I wrote.

And, yes, feel free to "ignore" me as well. We weren't having a civil conversation anyway, despite my best attempts, because you refused to consider what I was saying.

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Forgive me, but in post #329, there is no quotation from anyone to signify to whom your are responding. And I had earlier posted something about Eve not being the "fountain of Wisdom" that someone else had said. Now, I can hardly be held totally responsible if I see a connection.

If, in this, I have offended, I apologize.

amariselle said:

There has only every been one true Church. That is all true believers in Christ Jesus.

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Then why, if there is only one church, do the doctrines vary so much, one to another. The Early Church (which makes up all of the Pre-Reformation Churches) was ONE Church.

Sadly, there were splits and schisms along the way. But the basic beliefs about who God is, who Jesus is, the Holy Spirit, Salvation, etc. were the same.

But after the Reformation, there came along many different beliefs about salvation, including who can and cannot be saved, how to be saved, etc. You cannot even begin to believe that with all the various beliefs, and man-made doctrines, that there is still only one Church.

Forgive me, but we can't even get along in these Fora! For that matter, the most vicious confrontations I have ever come up against were Christian blogs on the internet. Sometimes they descend to being nothing but a snake pit.

Robert76 said:

You know, that's a good question. I've heard this stigma as well and not sure where it stems from. I sometimes wonder if the "works-based" ideology was partially generational in nature. Like what you've said, I've met many Catholics who do not believe this, but my Dad who is also Catholic has what I'll call "tendencies" towards this thinking. In fact, in our own church we have folks from different backgrounds who's parents/grandparents had similar misconceptions... like having to work for one's salvation, or the other one is trying to do good deeds to "outweigh" the bad ones.

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Here is St. Paul from Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (KJV)

We all need to work out our salvation. We cannot just trust in the wisdom that as Pastor has said to do this to get to heaven all we need to do is follow him. We all need to live our lives as righteously as God gives us the grace to do, so that, in our final exams, when he says, "I was hungry and you fed me," etc, that He will say "Welcome to the Kingdom." and not "cursed are you!" for not feeding Him.

Yes, we first of all need to rely on Him for the faith to begin cooperating with Him, to ask for His grace and love and trust in His free gift of salvation. Yes, we need to trust in the Blood of the Lamb. But from the Saving Grace comes forth, from US, the gifts that we are able to give, even a cup of water to a thirst man.

amariselle said:

And yes, I do in fact believe there is one true Church, made up of all true believers in Christ, trusting in Him alone for salvation (not works, not religious observances, not good behaviour etc.)

Jesus promised that the "gates of hell" will not prevail against the Church. I believe Him.

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And believing Jesus is a good thing. But here is the problem. You seem to keep believing that Catholics are not trusting in Him alone for salvation (not works, not religious observances, not good behaviour etc.), and that the works, religious observances and good behavior we try to do is trying to "buy" our salvation. It is not. It is no such thing. We, Catholic, Orthodox and the other continuing fragments of the "One True Church" have been trusting in God for our salvation. We have trusted in the Body and Blood of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and in His free gift of salvation. The works, religious observances, and good behavior is part of our lives, give back to Him.

And yes, the gates have not prevailed against the Catholic, Orthodox, and all of the other fragments of the One True Original Church that Jesus founded, and was empowered on the day of Pentecost.

On the other hand, since the Reformation, there has been no unity in love, Christian Charity, trust, common belief and doctrine since the Reformation.

amariselle said:

Yeah.... you may want to read the forum rules again.

Pretty sure from the contents of your posts that you've made some pretty serious deviations from Christianity.

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I have been on this forum for over 5 years.

A Christian is one who follows Christ. The OT isn't Christ nor can you prove it is. The books led the Jews to NOT see Christ. At the Council of Jerusalem, The Jews agreed that Christ was not the Messiah and excommunicated him and his teachings, saying the the OT was truth, and Christ wasn't of their God.

How you follow the Son of God is up to you. But knowledge is the key, the knowledge which Jesus brought and the Holy Spirit identifies. The Holy Spirit was given to man after Jesus resurrection. The Holy Spirit speaks of only of Jesus.

To me, a Christian doesn't follow a time before Christ (came) or the Holy Spirit (came).

The Gospel is clear of where Truth and Life exist. And it never points to the OT.

The OT is full of scripture about the coming of Jesus.

Goatee said:

The OT is full of scripture about the coming of Jesus.

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Maybe, maybe not. If it were, why didn't the Jews see and accept it. Hind site? I see people trying to make those connections like reading quatrains of Nostradamus. After the event, he was right. Never seeing before the event.

The OT couldn't have been that clear if the Hebrews are still waiting. Trying to identify the Gospel with the OT is worthless to me. It doesn't matter now that Truth came. To follow it now does more harm than good, like for the Jews.

Phantasman said:

Maybe, maybe not. If it were, why didn't the Jews see and accept it. Hind site? I see people trying to make those connections like reading quatrains of Nostradamus. After the event, he was right. Never seeing before the event.

The OT couldn't have been that clear if the Hebrews are still waiting. Trying to identify the Gospel with the OT is worthless to me. It doesn't matter now that Truth came. To follow it now does more harm than good, like for the Jews.

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You have to remember the Jews killed all their prophets. What is in the OT had to come to pass. It did, when Jesus walked the earth. The Jews were still going to do what they did. They were still going to believe what they believe.

Goatee said:

You have to remember the Jews killed all their prophets. What is in the OT had to come to pass. It did, when Jesus walked the earth. The Jews were still going to do what they did. They were still going to believe what they believe.

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Don't forget that for the first 40 years or so, almost the entire Church was Jewish

Goatee said:

You have to remember the Jews killed all their prophets. What is in the OT had to come to pass. It did, when Jesus walked the earth. The Jews were still going to do what they did. They were still going to believe what they believe.

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I agree 100%. I would never say truth didn't exist in the OT. Abraham was so intent of seeking god, he did the best he could. Even Jesus said in John, that Abraham would have recognized him. And Moses as well.

But it was a time of angels. Remember, an angel appeared to Joseph Smith. An angel appeared to Mohammad. If we are going to judge angels, they are judged even now by the Gospel message.

Jesus brought clarity of Truth. He came with a sword. He divide those that were his from those that were never his. Fathers, sons. Mothers, daughters.

If we follow Christ, we follow his words, right?
John:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John:
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10 is one of the greatest identifier of what a Christian is, and why the Jews tried to kill Jesus.

Jesus was the Truth AND the Way. He went back and appeared to all the Jews that has truly sought Truth that were in Hades (the deep sleep). And many saw his light and were saved, and appeared to many (at the Resurrection). That is Gospel. The Jews had died. Now, only Jesus is the door. I don't want to end up where the OT took the Jews, but to only open the door that Christ says he is.

I pray this makes sense, and you see the image.

Thanks

I don't rate Smith or Mohammad though.

amariselle said:

The Old Testament Scriptures point to Christ, as He said:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." - John 5:39

Jesus fulfilled many OT prophecies in His earthly ministry, death and resurrection. All were things foretold long before He came, things God promised would come to pass.

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The prophets knew something was coming. Once it came, we need not to go back to things in part. We listen to that which is perfect, Truth and Light that equals life. I do not believe one can be a Christian Jew. You are one or the other. Judaism was for the Jews.(theocracy) Christianity is for all. (theology).

QUOTE="amariselle, post: 71538630, member: 86037"]"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
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If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6[/QUOTE
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2 Peter 1:12 So I will always remind you of these things ... - Bible Hubbiblehub.com/2_peter/1-12.htmNew International Version So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.
New Living Translation
Therefore, I will always remind you about these things--even though you already know them and are standing firm in the truth you have been taught.

Phantasman said:

The prophets knew something was coming. Once it came, we need not to go back to things in part. We listen to that which is perfect, Truth and Light that equals life. I do not believe one can be a Christian Jew. You are one or the other. Judaism was for the Jews.(theocracy) Christianity is for all. (theology).

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Can a Greek be a Christian? Yes? Then a Jew can too. Yet the Greek remains a Greek and a Jew a Jew. We are all one in Messiah. BTW, Yeshua as well as all the apostles were Jews. Paul too. You need to read Romans 11 ...

It is a doctrine of demons to forbid people to eat clean animals

Clean animals have been sanctified by the word of God (Leviticus 23)

It is demonic to forbid people to eat the animals God has made clean per Leviticus 23

It is not demonic to forbid people to eat unclean animals. God says eating unclean animals is abominable

When you take a closer look at what Paul is saying, he is not promoting the consumption of unclean animals

Dkh587 said:

When you take a closer look at what Paul is saying, he is not promoting the consumption of unclean animals

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No one looks at what Yahweh , Yeshua, or the messengers say, do they, when they listen instead to demons (doctrines of demons)/ tradition(that is driven by doctrines of demons?) / or other (opposed to Yahweh, but great at pretending ) .
In fact, before anyone can look at (recognize) Yahweh's Word, what has to happen ?
What had to happen for every one of the messengers of Yahweh ? And for all the faithful disciples WHO REMAINED WITH JESUS (not the ones who walked away, without understanding) ?