The purpose of Election

Oct 21, 2003
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Which the OP showed.

Jesus chose Judas (John 6:70).

What election is definitely not about is being elected to salvation.

There is a difference between "elect" and election, and in Scripture the term most often used is "elect", and I do believe in every one of those instances, "elect" is used in referring to a Saint, to a believer in Christ. To be elect, is short for chosen by God for salvation. So by extension, election, does not merely mean to choose, as is the case of Judas. It is a mistake to equivocate the terms as they are used in Scripture. Yes Judas was chosen by Jesus, but clearly not elect, nor elected unto salvation, clearly he was chosen for another purpose that the Scriptures concerning him, would be fulfilled. That is why we read:

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.

Christ spoke those words beforehand, knowing full well before he chose Judas, the purpose for which Judas was born. Honestly this only strengthens the argument for double predestination. Because you have to ask yourself, could Judas have done otherwise? If he could have, God would be made out to be a liar, His prophecies failed and therefore false. But we know that cannot be the case, as it is written, it is impossible for God to lie, it is contradictory to His nature (another point image bearers should consider about their own nature with respect to choices).
 
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FreeGrace2

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There is a difference between "elect" and election
Sure. One is a verb or adjective, and the other is a noun.

and in Scripture the term most often used is "elect", and I do believe in every one of those instances, "elect" is used in referring to a Saint, to a believer in Christ.
Sure. But the word is also used of Jesus Christ, the Elect One. Isa 42:1

To be elect, is short for chosen by God for salvation.
No it's not. That is what Calvinists believe, but have no Scriptural support for. The OP gives all the examples of those who have been described as being elect or chosen (no difference) in Scripture. In those examples are unbelievers: many within the people of Israel and Judas.

So by extension, election, does not merely mean to choose, as is the case of Judas.
The Greek word in John 6:70 is the same word used to describe all that God has chosen, or elected. Which demonstrates why election isn't about salvation, but about being chosen (or elected) to service.

God does choose unbelievers for acts of service.

It is a mistake to equivocate the terms as they are used in Scripture. Yes Judas was chosen by Jesus, but clearly not elect, nor elected unto salvation, clearly he was chosen for another purpose that the Scriptures concerning him, would be fulfilled.
Bingo! Judas was chosen for "another purpose", and that purpose was service. He fulfilled Scripture.

But you've made my point. Thanks.

That is why we read:

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.

Christ spoke those words beforehand, knowing full well before he chose Judas, the purpose for which Judas was born.
Again, Judas was chosen/elected for service, as all who have been elected or chosen.

Honestly this only strengthens the argument for double predestination.
Not at all.

Because you have to ask yourself, could Judas have done otherwise?
You're seeing it backwards. Acts 17 tells us that God determines the "where" and "when" for everyone.

26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history (when) and the boundaries of their lands (where).

So God knew who would do the deed and placed him in history exactly where and when so that the deed would be done.

In no way can anyone say that Judas' election caused him to do the deed.

Although Calvinists probably think that way.

If he could have, God would be made out to be a liar, His prophecies failed and therefore false.
But God knows everything (omniscience), and there is nothing to fear.

Does God's knowledge of what you are going to do in the future mean that He is causing what you will be doing? No.

It seems to me that Calvinists don't actually acknowledge God's omniscience, and seem to think that the only way He knows all that will happen is because He determined what will happen.

If that were true, then we're all just puppets, which no Calvinist will realize.

But we're not puppets. God created mankind with an intellect with which to reason and choose. And given our free will, He has always known exactly how we all will think and choose.
 
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Doug Melven

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If that were true, then we're all just puppets, which no Calvinist will realize.

But we're not puppets. God created mankind with an intellect with which to reason and choose. And given our free will, He has always known exactly how we all will think and choose.
32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.

Looks like God really does want us to exercise our freewill.

I truly appreciate you bringing this truth of "election to service" out.
It just answers so many questions for me.
 
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FreeGrace2

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32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.

Looks like God really does want us to exercise our freewill.

I truly appreciate you bringing this truth of "election to service" out.
It just answers so many questions for me.
My pleasure, Doug.
 
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Election is to service, not salvation.

Interesting how difficult it is to find a Bible dictionary that excludes salvation from election or denies election entails service and salvation, especially as it is used in the N.T.

Here is one partial entry from one of many resources I have instant access to.

ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION
"The closely related ideas of election and predestination are crucial elements in the theological structure of Paul’s thinking. If he nowhere develops them as themes, nor even frequently uses the words, that was because they were part of the very fabric of his thinking. When they do occur they are buried deeply within highly complex theological arguments, as indisputable theological givens, connected with other such fundamental ideas (e.g., call, purpose, will, counsel). In Paul these terms are used primarily as redemptive ideas, but there is evidence that they extended beyond that.

1. The Electing God and His Purposes
2. The Election of God
3. The Predestination of God
4. A Summary Statement of Election and Predestination
5. Final Considerations Concerning Election and Predestination

1. The Electing God and His Purposes.
In order to understand Paul’s doctrine of election and predestination one must begin with the doctrine of God, because it is God who elects, who calls, who purposes and who predestinates. God, and for Paul that term must be understood as embracing Father, Son and Spirit, is the center of his thinking, not as an abstract idea reached after long theorizing, but the Supreme Reality in the universe. Everything that Paul says relates to his idea and experience of God. Yet Paul’s theology was not practiced in a vacuum but came to expression in his pastoral dealings with his congregations. They in turn lived in a world influenced by skepticism and uncertainty about life’s meaning and the ability of the gods to control evil and answer questions about human destiny (see Worship; Religions).

In theory, then, in order to understand election and predestination one would need to understand everything that Paul said about God, because it is God who elected and predestinated. For present purposes, however, only two aspects of the being of God will be considered—those qualities of God that relate directly to him as the one who elects, and those that relate to him as the one who plans or purposes.

1.1. The Qualities of God Related to Election. The qualities of God that one finds related to election are his love (Eph 1:4–5; 1 Thess 1:4), mercy (Rom 9:16), grace (Rom 11:5), and wisdom and knowledge (Rom 11:33). For Paul it is the God of love and mercy, acting graciously and wisely, who is the electing God. This would be enough to silence anyone who might imagine that God was arbitrary and chose without any rationale at all, but Paul takes it one step further.

1.2. The Plan of the Electing God. God’s election is part of an overall plan or purpose. This means there is nothing at all arbitrary about election. God has a purpose that was worked out in accordance with his love, mercy and grace, that was wise beyond imagination, and that is to be accomplished by means of election and predestination. Election and predestination are not ends in themselves but means to an end, practical ways of accomplishing God’s will. So the merciful and loving God worked out a gracious plan from within the depths of himself, based on his eternal wisdom, that he effects in time by means of election and predestination.

1.3. The Plan of God and Redemption. Paul nowhere develops the full extent of what he means by the purpose or plan of God, but no doubt it covered the whole of God’s dealings with the created order. Paul does, however, develop its redemptive aspect. God works everything according to the counsel of his own will, and his will or purpose is redemptive. Consequently, according to that purpose, he calls (Rom 8:28), he works everything together for good for those whom he has called (Rom 8:28), he predestinates those who are in Christ (Eph 1:11; see “In Christ”), he elects (Rom 9:11) and he makes known his manifold wisdom through the church (Eph 3:11). This purpose of God is inscrutable, for “who has known the mind of the Lord?” (1 Cor 2:16; Rom 11:33–35, quoting Is 40:13 LXX), and, though God’s ways and doings are past finding out and embody an ultimate mystery, one is not left wholly in the dark. The Spirit (see Holy Spirit) has searched out the deep things of God (1 Cor 2:10–11), just as God has searched out the hearts of all human beings (Rom 8:27) and God has revealed these things to believers by the Spirit (1 Cor 2:10, 12). Christ also knows the mind of God and believers have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). So, although the mind, will and purpose of God are eternal, divine mysteries, it was God’s purpose to make this known in all its manifold wisdom, to the extent that it can be known, through the church, which is the body of Christ (Eph 3:11; see Body of Christ)."

Hawthorne, G. F., Martin, R. P., & Reid, D. G. (Eds.). (1993). In Dictionary of Paul and his letters (pp. 225–226). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"Election is to service, not salvation."
Interesting how difficult it is to find a Bible dictionary that excludes salvation from election or denies election entails service and salvation, especially as it is used in the N.T.
I'm not responsible for the lack of understand of others. I'm trying to stamp out this lack of understanding by showing from Scripture how the word is used. The examples in the OP show clearly how it is used.

Here is one partial entry from one of many resources I have instant access to.

ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION
"The closely related ideas of election and predestination are crucial elements in the theological structure of Paul’s thinking. If he nowhere develops them as themes, nor even frequently uses the words, that was because they were part of the very fabric of his thinking. When they do occur they are buried deeply within highly complex theological arguments, as indisputable theological givens, connected with other such fundamental ideas (e.g., call, purpose, will, counsel). In Paul these terms are used primarily as redemptive ideas, but there is evidence that they extended beyond that.

1. The Electing God and His Purposes
2. The Election of God
3. The Predestination of God
4. A Summary Statement of Election and Predestination
5. Final Considerations Concerning Election and Predestination

1. The Electing God and His Purposes.
In order to understand Paul’s doctrine of election and predestination one must begin with the doctrine of God, because it is God who elects, who calls, who purposes and who predestinates. God, and for Paul that term must be understood as embracing Father, Son and Spirit, is the center of his thinking, not as an abstract idea reached after long theorizing, but the Supreme Reality in the universe. Everything that Paul says relates to his idea and experience of God. Yet Paul’s theology was not practiced in a vacuum but came to expression in his pastoral dealings with his congregations. They in turn lived in a world influenced by skepticism and uncertainty about life’s meaning and the ability of the gods to control evil and answer questions about human destiny (see Worship; Religions).

In theory, then, in order to understand election and predestination one would need to understand everything that Paul said about God, because it is God who elected and predestinated. For present purposes, however, only two aspects of the being of God will be considered—those qualities of God that relate directly to him as the one who elects, and those that relate to him as the one who plans or purposes.

1.1. The Qualities of God Related to Election. The qualities of God that one finds related to election are his love (Eph 1:4–5; 1 Thess 1:4), mercy (Rom 9:16), grace (Rom 11:5), and wisdom and knowledge (Rom 11:33). For Paul it is the God of love and mercy, acting graciously and wisely, who is the electing God. This would be enough to silence anyone who might imagine that God was arbitrary and chose without any rationale at all, but Paul takes it one step further.

1.2. The Plan of the Electing God. God’s election is part of an overall plan or purpose. This means there is nothing at all arbitrary about election. God has a purpose that was worked out in accordance with his love, mercy and grace, that was wise beyond imagination, and that is to be accomplished by means of election and predestination. Election and predestination are not ends in themselves but means to an end, practical ways of accomplishing God’s will. So the merciful and loving God worked out a gracious plan from within the depths of himself, based on his eternal wisdom, that he effects in time by means of election and predestination.

1.3. The Plan of God and Redemption. Paul nowhere develops the full extent of what he means by the purpose or plan of God, but no doubt it covered the whole of God’s dealings with the created order. Paul does, however, develop its redemptive aspect. God works everything according to the counsel of his own will, and his will or purpose is redemptive. Consequently, according to that purpose, he calls (Rom 8:28), he works everything together for good for those whom he has called (Rom 8:28), he predestinates those who are in Christ (Eph 1:11; see “In Christ”), he elects (Rom 9:11) and he makes known his manifold wisdom through the church (Eph 3:11). This purpose of God is inscrutable, for “who has known the mind of the Lord?” (1 Cor 2:16; Rom 11:33–35, quoting Is 40:13 LXX), and, though God’s ways and doings are past finding out and embody an ultimate mystery, one is not left wholly in the dark. The Spirit (see Holy Spirit) has searched out the deep things of God (1 Cor 2:10–11), just as God has searched out the hearts of all human beings (Rom 8:27) and God has revealed these things to believers by the Spirit (1 Cor 2:10, 12). Christ also knows the mind of God and believers have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). So, although the mind, will and purpose of God are eternal, divine mysteries, it was God’s purpose to make this known in all its manifold wisdom, to the extent that it can be known, through the church, which is the body of Christ (Eph 3:11; see Body of Christ)."

Hawthorne, G. F., Martin, R. P., & Reid, D. G. (Eds.). (1993). In Dictionary of Paul and his letters (pp. 225–226). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
So what? Where did Hawthorne, Martin, or Reid show any verses that tells us that salvation is by election, or that God saves by election? They didn't.

Just using the word the way one wants doesn't make it true.

I have invited anyone to address the OP point by point to show that election is for salvation.

No one has yet stepped forward.

The OP shows how Scripture uses 'election'.
 
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So here is the challenge I present, take the following verses and try reading "election unto service" into them...

(Matt 24:22 [NKJV])
“And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

(Matt 24:24 [NKJV])
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

(Matt 24:31 [NKJV])
“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(Mark 13:20 [NKJV])
“And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

(Mark 13:22 [NKJV])
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

(Mark 13:27 [NKJV])
“And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

(Luke 18:7 [NKJV])
“And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?

(Rom 8:33 [NKJV])
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

(Rom 9:11 [NKJV])
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

(Rom 11:5 [NKJV])
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

(Rom 11:7 [NKJV])
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(Rom 11:28 [NKJV])
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

(Col 3:12 [NKJV])
Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

(1Thess 1:4 [NKJV])
knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

(1Tim 5:21 [NKJV])
I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

(2Tim 2:10 [NKJV])
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

(Titus 1:1 [NKJV])
PAUL, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

(1Pet 1:2 [NKJV])
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

(1Pet 2:6 [NKJV])
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

(1Pet 5:13 [NKJV])
She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.

(2Pet 1:10 [NKJV])
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

Election in its English usage is used in different ways and the concept of "election unto service" is clearly not a common usage. The connection between salvation and election is especially clear to me in the Gospels and in most instances throughout Paul's letters.

Thank you for causing me to search the Scriptures, and bringing Romans 11:5 to my attention in the process. Great topic!
 
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FreeGrace2

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So here is the challenge I present, take the following verses and try reading "election unto service" into them...
I've already shown from Scripture that election is FOR service. For those who don't like or believe that idea, please address the verses in the OP and post #34 and use exegesis to prove that none of the verses quoted indicate that Jesus was elected to serve, or that believers aren't elected to service or obedience.

Now, regarding the following verses, I have a challenge. Where in any of them do we find the idea of being elected to salvation?

(Matt 24:22 [NKJV])
“And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
First, the "saved" here is about physical life, not eternal salvation.

(Matt 24:24 [NKJV])
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Nothing about salvation.

(Matt 24:31 [NKJV])
“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Nothing about salvation.

(Mark 13:20 [NKJV])
“And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Same problem as Matt 24:22.

(Mark 13:22 [NKJV])
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

(Mark 13:27 [NKJV])
“And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

(Luke 18:7 [NKJV])
“And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?

(Rom 8:33 [NKJV])
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

(Rom 9:11 [NKJV])
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

(Rom 11:5 [NKJV])
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

(Rom 11:7 [NKJV])
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(Rom 11:28 [NKJV])
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

(Col 3:12 [NKJV])
Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
None of these verses even mention salvation.

(1Thess 1:4 [NKJV])
knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
How about backing up to v.2, which directly says the elect were elected FOR OBEDIENCE? That is about SERVICE, not salvation.

(1Tim 5:21 [NKJV])
I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.
Are you actually suggesting that there are saved angels? This verse certainly doesn't say anything about that. Nor anywhere else in Scripture.

(2Tim 2:10 [NKJV])
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Does this verse say the elect are elected/chosen for salvation? No. Not even close.

(Titus 1:1 [NKJV])
PAUL, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,
Nothing here about salvation.

(1Pet 1:2 [NKJV])
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
This verse very plainly and directly says "elect for obedience". That's the purpose of election.

(1Pet 2:6 [NKJV])
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

(1Pet 5:13 [NKJV])
She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.
These are adjectives only, which do NOT speak of the purpose of election. So they're not helpful.

(2Pet 1:10 [NKJV])
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
How many verses would you like to see that teach that believers are called to service?

Here's one:
2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Along with this verse is a related one, Eph 1:4 - For He chose (elected) us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

So, we've been called and elected to a holy life. Again, this is about service.

Election in its English usage is used in different ways and the concept of "election unto service" is clearly not a common usage.
Actually, the word is simply about being chosen for something.

However, we have presidential elections every 4 years. What are the candidates being chosen FOR? To serve the populace, naturally.

The connection between salvation and election is especially clear to me in the Gospels and in most instances throughout Paul's letters.
Then how come neither you nor any other Calvinist can provide ANY verse that says we are chosen for salvation??

Thank you for causing me to search the Scriptures, and bringing Romans 11:5 to my attention in the process. Great topic!
You're welcome. I hope the verses I've provided will lead you to the biblical concept of election.
 
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Sorry I forgot to mention that I did not post all of those Scriptures as proof texts, they represent 98% of the instances where the word "elect" and its variants are found in the N.T. in the English NKJV translation. I boldfaced the word "elect" and helpful context where I wanted emphasis.

If any verse will suffice then let's go with..

(Rom 11:5 [NKJV])
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The ESV renders this part of the verse as "5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace."

Election unto service, of course implies works, in the context of the elect, it implies the works of God, as opposed to the works of the flesh, or the fruits of unbelief. However, grace as Paul uses the term, cannot mean service that implies works, it cannot be equivocated with such, or grace is no longer grace, neither works, no longer works, and the whole concepts of a covenant of works and covenant of grace are likewise trampled and without meaning.

Paul makes the distinctions between grace and works...

(Rom 9:11 [NKJV])
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So interpreting Paul within the thought of Paul, it is impossible to read "Election unto service" into Rom 11:5, because Paul is quite clear that grace is "not of works". Further Paul say's it is BY grace you have been SAVED, so election of grace, entails SALVATION by grace.

Thank you for the time spent, and hoping and praying the Lord will give us clarity. God bless and Merry Christmas!
 
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I said:
"we obeyed from the heart."

The heart made the choice. I know that Calvinists don't believe that. But there's no Scripture that tells us that God is the cause of believing.

Of course Calvinists believe hearts make choices...that is a blatant misrepresentation out of ignorance at best, or deviance.

As to the assertion that no Scripture tells us that God is the cause of believing, consider this by R.C. Sproul ...

"Romans 8:7–8 explains that it is impossible for minds set on the flesh to please God and obey Him. People who are not in Christ are in the flesh, so they lack the ability to do the Lord’s will. Since His will for us is that we trust in His promises, unbelievers are incapable in themselves of believing in Christ Jesus for salvation. Furthermore, John 3:3 says that we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again by the Spirit. If we cannot see God’s kingdom, we can by no means enter it. In sum, faith can arise only from a new heart. To put it in theological categories: regeneration precedes faith.

Faith is a gift of the Lord to undeserving people, the outworking of God’s electing grace and the atonement of Jesus for His own. Ephesians 2:8 confirms the truth that faith is ultimately a gift of God. “The gift of God” in the original Greek appears in the neuter grammatical form, which means that it refers back to both grace and faith earlier in the verse. Grace and faith are divine gifts, and our Father does not give them to all people. Only this view of faith is consistent with the biblical teaching on the pervasiveness of our depravity and our desperate state apart from Christ."

As to a pointed Scripture concerning God and the cause...

2 Thess 2:11 "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,"

No Scripture huh? If God can cause unbelief, how much more can He cause belief? He is the cause of belief and leaves no room for boasting.
 
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Sorry I forgot to mention that I did not post all of those Scriptures as proof texts, they represent 98% of the instances where the word "elect" and its variants are found in the N.T. in the English NKJV translation.
Not to worry. Except the fact that none of the verses you did post say anything about election to salvation. And the fact that the other 2% of verses don't either.

I boldfaced the word "elect" and helpful context where I wanted emphasis.
Maybe you think I don't believe in election? Of course I do. That's what this thread is about; the purpose of ELECTION.

See? I can bold the word too. And capitalize all the letters. And make all the letters red.

If any verse will suffice then let's go with..

(Rom 11:5 [NKJV])
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The ESV renders this part of the verse as "5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace."
God's entire plan for mankind is based on grace. What Rom 11:5 doesn't say is the purpose of election. It just states God's policy on what election is based on, which is grace. And so is salvation, and so is everything else God provides for us.

Election unto service, of course implies works, in the context of the elect, it implies the works of God, as opposed to the works of the flesh, or the fruits of unbelief.
Of course all believers are both called and elected to "good works". Eph 2:10 - For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

There it is, in black and white: created in Christ to do good works. While it doesn't say elected to do good works, we find election in Eph 1:4, and just WHO it is who are elected; "us". And Paul defined who the "us" of v.4 are in Eph 1:19 - and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength

So, there you have it. Believers have been chosen or elected "to be holy and blameless", which we are also called to do in 2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

However, grace as Paul uses the term, cannot mean service that implies works, it cannot be equivocated with such, or grace is no longer grace, neither works, no longer works, and the whole concepts of a covenant of works and covenant of grace are likewise trampled and without meaning.
I believe you've confused/conflated salvation by grace with being chosen for good works. The Bible teaches both, and without any contradiction.

Paul makes the distinctions between grace and works...

(Rom 9:11 [NKJV])
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So interpreting Paul within the thought of Paul, it is impossible to read "Election unto service" into Rom 11:5, because Paul is quite clear that grace is "not of works". Further Paul say's it is BY grace you have been SAVED, so election of grace, entails SALVATION by grace.
I've given plenty of verses that directly link our being chosen with service, obedience, etc.

Thank you for the time spent, and hoping and praying the Lord will give us clarity. God bless and Merry Christmas!
And Merry Christmas to you and yours!!
 
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Of course Calvinists believe hearts make choices...that is a blatant misrepresentation out of ignorance at best, or deviance.

As to the assertion that no Scripture tells us that God is the cause of believing, consider this by R.C. Sproul ...

"Romans 8:7–8 explains that it is impossible for minds set on the flesh to please God and obey Him. People who are not in Christ are in the flesh, so they lack the ability to do the Lord’s will. Since His will for us is that we trust in His promises, unbelievers are incapable in themselves of believing in Christ Jesus for salvation. Furthermore, John 3:3 says that we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again by the Spirit. If we cannot see God’s kingdom, we can by no means enter it. In sum, faith can arise only from a new heart. To put it in theological categories: regeneration precedes faith.
What verse or passage actually teaches that regeneration precedes faith. I am quite familiar with the reformed doctrine of such, but where is the teaching found?

In fact, Scripture teaches the exact opposite. Taught by Paul.

In Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

I hope we agree that the phrase "made us alive" means regeneration, or the new birth.

OK, then the phrase at the end of the verse, "it is by grace you have been saved".

That phrase is simply a clarification of the first phrase, "made us alive".

iow, they are equivalent ideas. They are essentially synonymous. You can't have one without the other.

If one has been saved, they have been made alive.
If one has been made alive, they are saved.

Now, Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Here we find the specific order of things; "you have been saved through faith".

In order to be saved "through faith", it should be obvious that faith precedes salvation. And v.5 reveals that regeneration and being saved are the same thing, or at least occur together.

Therefore, faith precedes regeneration.

Faith is a gift of the Lord to undeserving people
No need to use the word "undeserving". All humans are undeserving of salvation.

And, using the noun "faith", it IS a gift. But the ACTION (verb) of believing is NOT a gift of God, by which the so-called "elect" respond to the gospel.

2 Thess 2:11 "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,"
Did you note the previous verse? I thought not. So here it is: and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Here we see a very clear statement about their free will to reject the truth, by which they would have been saved.

So the phrase in v.11 "and for this reason" refers to the FACT that because they refused (volition) to love (believe) the truth, they will perish.

So, why does God send these specific people a "strong delusion" so that they would believe a lie? Because they refused to love the truth.

God doesn't do this for every unbeliever who ends up in hell. He does do it for those who have heard the truth and refused to believe or love it.

No Scripture huh?
To be specific, no Scripture that supports the Calvinist claims regarding election.

If God can cause unbelief, how much more can He cause belief?
See? This definitely shows that you've misunderstood 2 Thess 2:10,11. It clearly does NOT say that God causes unbelief.

In fact, it states the exact opposite; that men REFUSE TO LOVE THE TRUTH, by which they perish. It is FOR THAT REASON that God sends them a strong delusion so they will believe the lie. They are already destined to perish, for REFUSING TO LOVE THE TRUTH AND SO BE SAVED.


He is the cause of belief and leaves no room for boasting.
Free will choice to love the truth and believe it also leaves no room for boasting.

However, there are no verses that tell us that God is the cause of belief.

If that were true, then the human race is nothing more than puppets, or pre-programmed robots.

I know the Calvinists howl at this and will strongly deny that, but there is no other option, if God is the cause of one's believing. You just won't admit it.
 
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(2Thess 2:13 [NKJV])
"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,"


So there you have it, once again Paul guided by the Spirit is consistent, and persistent in thought.
 
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FreeGrace2

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(2Thess 2:13 [NKJV])
"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,"


So there you have it, once again Paul guided by the Spirit is consistent, and persistent in thought.
Yes, Paul was guided by the Spirit and was totally consistent when writing inspired Scripture, of which 2 Thess 2:13 is part of.

However, like so many other verses that Calvinists misread, this is another of those misread verses.

The verse teaches the METHOD of salvation that God chose. The phrase "through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" is what God chose as the means of saving people.

What the verse doesn't say is that God chose anyone unconditionally, which is the 2nd point of TULIP, and unbiblical.

God's salvation IS conditional. It's conditioned upon belief in the truth, or faith in Christ, who is the Truth.

And 2 Thess 2:13 contradicts the 2nd point of TULIP very clearly.

Man is saved through belief in the truth.

Or consider this, also from Paul: 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

This verse says basically what 2 Thess 2:13 says

Oh, and one more thing. The word for "chose" in 2 Thess 2:13 is 'haireomai', which is NOT the same verb translated 'elected' in other verses, which is 'eklektomai'.

So, 2 Thess 2:13 supports my view, not yours.

Merry Chrstmas!
 
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Sorry I forgot to mention that I did not post all of those Scriptures as proof texts, they represent 98% of the instances where the word "elect" and its variants are found in the N.T. in the English NKJV translation. I boldfaced the word "elect" and helpful context where I wanted emphasis.

If any verse will suffice then let's go with..

(Rom 11:5 [NKJV])
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The ESV renders this part of the verse as "5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace."

Election unto service, of course implies works, in the context of the elect, it implies the works of God, as opposed to the works of the flesh, or the fruits of unbelief. However, grace as Paul uses the term, cannot mean service that implies works, it cannot be equivocated with such, or grace is no longer grace, neither works, no longer works, and the whole concepts of a covenant of works and covenant of grace are likewise trampled and without meaning.

Paul makes the distinctions between grace and works...

(Rom 9:11 [NKJV])
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So interpreting Paul within the thought of Paul, it is impossible to read "Election unto service" into Rom 11:5, because Paul is quite clear that grace is "not of works". Further Paul say's it is BY grace you have been SAVED, so election of grace, entails SALVATION by grace.

Thank you for the time spent, and hoping and praying the Lord will give us clarity. God bless and Merry Christmas!
Everything we receive from God is by His grace alone. 1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

(2Thess 2:13 [NKJV])
"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,"


So there you have it, once again Paul guided by the Spirit is consistent, and persistent in thought.
.
God choosing us for salvation was according to His foreknowledge. Romans 8:28-29
 
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God choosing us for salvation was according to His foreknowledge. Romans 8:28-29
Also, 1 Pet 1:2 - who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
 
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Also, 1 Pet 1:2 - who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
1 Peter 1:2 and Romans 8:29 are not referring to the same event.
God knew who would choose Him because He foresaw it.
In 1 Peter 1:2 the word for foreknowledge is prognosis or forethought.
In Romans 8:29 the word for foreknowledge is proginosko or foresee.
His foreseeing that we would choose Him in no way takes away our freewill.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said:
"Also, 1 Pet 1:2 - who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance."
1 Peter 1:2 and Romans 8:29 are not referring to the same event.
God knew who would choose Him because He foresaw it.
I don't believe that makes decisions based on what is "foreseen". That would suggest that, at least, that God had to "look ahead" in order to make a decision.

Because God knows all, (omniscience), He does not have to look ahead in order to make any decisions.

1 Pet 1:2 speaks of God's omniscience, foreknowledge.

In 1 Peter 1:2 the word for foreknowledge is prognosis or forethought.
In Romans 8:29 the word for foreknowledge is proginosko or foresee.
His foreseeing that we would choose Him in no way takes away our freewill.
I fully agree that humanity's free will remains intact. Absolutely!!
 
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1 Peter 1:2 and Romans 8:29 are not referring to the same event.
God knew who would choose Him because He foresaw it.
In 1 Peter 1:2 the word for foreknowledge is prognosis or forethought.
In Romans 8:29 the word for foreknowledge is proginosko or foresee.
His foreseeing that we would choose Him in no way takes away our freewill.

Except the verse reads "who have been chosen", not we who chose God, big difference.
 
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Oh, and one more thing. The word for "chose" in 2 Thess 2:13 is 'haireomai', which is NOT the same verb translated 'elected' in other verses, which is 'eklektomai'.

So, 2 Thess 2:13 supports my view, not yours.

Merry Chrstmas!

Another example:

Titus 1:1 PAUL, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness (G1586)

and looking at Strong's:

G1586
ἐκλέγομαι
eklegomai
ek-leg'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select:—make choice, choose (out), chosen.

G138
αἱρέομαι
haireomai
hahee-reh'-om-ahee
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer:—choose. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate (ἕλλομαι hellomai, hel-lom-ahee), which is otherwise.

Take your pick, they have the same meaning.
 
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