LDS Contradictions Regarding Holy Ghost

Rescued One · Nov 30, 2017

withwonderingawe said:
Are you saying we shouldn't repent and do good works?

I have never once in my life said that. NEVER!

Joseph Smith said that eveyone but Mormons would be damned and a lot of Mormons would, too, unless they repent. Mormons still teach that your church is the Kingdom of God on earth and that the only way to have eternal life in the Kingdom of God is to become a follower of Mormonism.

fatboys · Nov 30, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I have never once in my life said that. NEVER!

Joseph Smith said that eveyone but Mormons would be damned and a lot of Mormons would, too, unless they repent. Mormons still teach that your church is the Kingdom of God on earth and that the only way to have eternal life in the Kingdom of God is to become a follower of Mormonism.

If a person rejects the restored gospel their progression is impeded. Like a dam across a river. They have a choice. Because you rejects the restored gospel right now you are impeded as to the knowledge and blessings you could receive. You are dammed

Jane_Doe · Nov 30, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I have never once in my life said that. NEVER!

You just did in post 138.

Peter1000 · Nov 30, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I never disagreed that we have to be born again. I've said it umpteen times!

Unless we're born again we don't have His Spirit and we don't belong to Him. Without His Spirit, we don't understand spiritual things. And God NEVER owes us anything.

I believe, I was born of the water and of the HS. Then according to you, I am saved too. Is that right, or do you believe something else for me?

What are you calling this "process?" Does it have a name? And why do you say "and finally to charity" as if charity is the caboose?

The name of the process is 'the road to salvation' or 'being saved'.

I mention charity last because it is the culmination of our effort to love Jesus and live his commandments. It is when we understand what pure religion is.
Here is the qualities involved in the concept of charity:
1 Corinthians 13King James Version (KJV)
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

IOW, if you do all these wonderful good works and have not charity, it is as sounding brass and tinkling cymbols. Which is other words for worthless.
So what if you believe, so what if you are born again, so what if you do good works, if it is not done according to the above scripture, it is worthless to you. No automatic passes.

The Kingdom of God doesn't have levels; the Gospel isn't Hinduism. We can't earn a higher level.

The scriptures say that Paul went to the third heaven, and saw unspeakable things. Therefore we can say with confidence: heaven is in at least 3 levels. The bible actually gives the names of 2 of those levels, the Celestial, and the Terestrial. JS, through a revelation from Jesus Christ gave us the 3rd level, the Telestial.
It just makes sense that that would be the case. If you were to go through the congregation of your church, you would find that there are many that are at a higher level of charity than others. There are those that are at an intermediate level of charity. There are those that are at a low level of charity. And not in your congregation, but there are those that have no charity and they will find themselves in outer darkness.

Peter1000 · Nov 30, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
No, it isn't odd at all! Mormons expect everyone to be workaholics.

Is being a workaholic for Jesus a burden for you? Being a workaholic for Jesus or just reading and studying about Jesus is all worthless unless you have charity. Read 1 Corinthians 13 for what it means to have charity.

I did not follow Buddha! I was going through the motions of being a Mormon and I was promised that that was how a person gains a testimony. I think I told you about all the work I had to do to care for my home and children. I didn't even know how to cook when I got married because my mother didn't want me in the kitchen until it was time to wash dishes! My husband worked from about 6:00 am to 10:00 pm, so he couldn't relieve me while I did some of the chores. Why are you so judgmental? I read the Book of Mormon. Some members don't even accomplish that.

If you read the BOM and the Bible you should have been making Jesus the center of your life. Then if you went to the temple or did some visiting teaching or taught a Sunday School class, and took the sacrament, and teach your children about Jesus, you should have started to approach the qualities of having charity.

You have to know that reading and studying and worshiping Jesus in a church is worthless unless you unleash your charity qualities.

The Mormon gods weren't the God I love and adore. And your leaders said they weren't. I was not a Christian. Had I been a Christian, I wouldn't have stayed in your organization so many years.

Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of our church. All we do centers around him. Even when we are wrestling with our daily problems and it seems that we are going to be drowned by the world, we look to Jesus for help and protection and love and he does not disappoint. Everything is about Jesus, that is the whole reason for the church is to focus your attention on Jesus. Only Jesus.

So what are you doing now that you could not have done in the LDS church?

Please stop bearing false witness. I've explained and shared verses till the cows came home, but you don't or won't understand the gospel of Christ.

OK, answer this: If I am saved because I believe and I am born again by the water and the spirit, why must I then endure to the end? Why must I have the qualities of charity?

Joseph Smith wa asked, "Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
He answered "Yes, and a great portion if them, unless they repent and work righteousness."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119

If JS had answered any other way, I would not be LDS. Think about it, if Jesus had said there are many ways to get into the KOG, would that make you feel warm and fuzzy? Jesus knew there was only 1 narrow path that leadeth to life. He gave his life teaching people what that path was.

JS learned from Jesus Christ that you can only get to heaven if you believe, are born again of the water and of the HS by men who hold the keys of the KOG. Love God and Jesus, keep their commandments, have charity, and endure to the end where Jesus will be there for you to ensure that your sins are removed by his grace, and then you can enter the highest levels of the KOG.

Only in the LDS church are the keys of the KOG. These keys are needed to bind what is done on earth (being born again) and it is bound or recognized in heaven. No other path is available, only through Jesus and men that he has given the keys of the KOG. That is the only path that you can be saved.

The rest of this earth life and all of the millenium will be filled with the process of giving all men and women the opportunity to accept these principles and ordinances, prerequisite to meeting with Jesus at the judgement seat. And then the books will be opened and you will be judged according to your works. Those that have followed the correct path will enjoy the higest level of heaven, and so forth to the lowest levels of heaven. So JS was right on target.

Rescued One · Nov 30, 2017

Peter1000 said:
Is being a workaholic for Jesus a burden for you? Being a workaholic for Jesus or just reading and studying about Jesus is all worthless unless you have charity. Read 1 Corinthians 13 for what it means to have charity.

If you read the BOM and the Bible you should have been making Jesus the center of your life. Then if you went to the temple or did some visiting teaching or taught a Sunday School class, and took the sacrament, and teach your children about Jesus, you should have started to approach the qualities of having charity.

I had and have charity. Mormons tend to believe what their leaders have said about those who leave. I couldn't feel God's love in a church that worshiped a false god and taught numerous false teachings. As for the word workaholic, I'm talking about extremism and a waste of time studying those lessons in relief society and making useless crafts that end up in the landfill.

Peter1000 said:
You have to know that reading and studying and worshiping Jesus in a church is worthless unless you unleash your charity qualities.

Unleash? That's an odd word to use when describing the fruits of the Spirit. Those fruits aren't tied up. Being in a church that worships two exalted men is what is worthless.

Peter1000 said:
Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of our church. All we do centers around him. Even when we are wrestling with our daily problems and it seems that we are going to be drowned by the world, we look to Jesus for help and protection and love and he does not disappoint. Everything is about Jesus, that is the whole reason for the church is to focus your attention on Jesus. Only Jesus.

Nice try.

God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).
God the Father

Peter1000 said:
So what are you doing now that you could not have done in the LDS church?

Wosrshiping and serving the Triune God in common with other Christians.

Peter1000 said:
OK, answer this: If I am saved because I believe and I am born again by the water and the spirit, why must I then endure to the end? Why must I have the qualities of charity?

Christian We are Gods handiwork Eph-2-10.png

Peter1000 said:
If JS had answered any other way, I would not be LDS. Think about it, if Jesus had said there are many ways to get into the KOG, would that make you feel warm and fuzzy? Jesus knew there was only 1 narrow path that leadeth to life. He gave his life teaching people what that path was.

That's why I follow Him instead of false prophets! We ought to obey God rather than men. If you only knew.

Peter1000 said:
JS learned from Jesus Christ that you can only get to heaven if you believe, are born again of the water and of the HS by men who hold the keys of the KOG. Love God and Jesus, keep their commandments, have charity, and endure to the end where Jesus will be there for you to ensure that your sins are removed by his grace, and then you can enter the highest levels of the KOG.

Jesus never taught Mormonism and its false interpretation of the straight and narrow way. There are no levels and separate kingdoms in heaven.

Peter1000 said:
Only in the LDS church are the keys of the KOG. These keys are needed to bind what is done on earth (being born again) and it is bound or recognized in heaven. No other path is available, only through Jesus and men that he has given the keys of the KOG. That is the only path that you can be saved.

Joseph Smith got a lot of people to believe he could change the path.

Proverbs 14
12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life. "

Peter1000 said:
The rest of this earth life and all of the millenium will be filled with the process of giving all men and women the opportunity to accept these principles and ordinances, prerequisite to meeting with Jesus at the judgement seat. And then the books will be opened and you will be judged according to your works. Those that have followed the correct path will enjoy the higest level of heaven, and so forth to the lowest levels of heaven. So JS was right on target.

Your heaven is fictitious and consists of separate fictitious kingdoms.

The principles and ordinances are not of God.

Jesus bought and fully paid for the salvation of His followers with His blood.

The Correct Path:

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14

9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4

Peter1000 · Dec 4, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I had and have charity. Mormons tend to believe what their leaders have said about those who leave. I couldn't feel God's love in a church that worshiped a false god and taught numerous false teachings. As for the word workaholic, I'm talking about extremism and a waste of time studying those lessons in relief society and making useless crafts that end up in the landfill.

At that time in your life how did you know that you were hearing false doctrine? You say you never read the bible, so how did you know?

Wow, how extreme is it to study a relief society lesson. And how nasty it must have been to make a useless craft.

Unleash? That's an odd word to use when describing the fruits of the Spirit. Those fruits aren't tied up. Being in a church that worships two exalted men is what is worthless.

What 2 men are you talking about, you mean God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. How horrible to worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Do you feel OK?

God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).

Jesus worshipped God the Father as the Supreme God. He worshipped Him as his God and Father. (see John 17:20). So does LDS.

LDS also listens to God the Father when he says "this is My son, hear him". Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments, and so we try to lead Christ-centered lives, as God the Father says to do. Do you?

Wosrshiping and serving the Triune God in common with other Christians.

The thousands of Christian churches worship God and worship Jesus and worship the HS in a thousand different ways. There are many that are Trinitarians, there are many that are Oneness, there are many that are Sebellians, there are many that are Tritheists, etc., etc., etc.

That's why I follow Him instead of false prophets! We ought to obey God rather than men. If you only knew.

You seem to have a problem just following men. Would you have followed Peter and James and John, apostles of Jesus Christ?

Jesus neve taught Mormonism and its false interpretation of the straight and narrow way. There are no levels and separate kingdoms in heaven.

Jesus taught way more Mormonism than he taught mainstream Christian doctrine. For instance your most elequent doctrine and one you focus on with great passion is by grace are you saved, not of works lest ye boast.

Jesus did not use the word grace once in all of his sermons, but he did talk about how one becomes perfect in their good works. Mormonism incorprates both good works, perfection and enduring to the end that Jesus taught, and grace are ye saved as Paul taught. We teach the whole, you teach 1/2 and the 1/2 you teach is not from Jesus.

Joseph Smith got a lot of people to believe he could change the path.

JS through the teaching of face to face contact with Jesus, did change the path that mainstream Christianity was on. There is no doubt about that. He restored the Church of Jesus Christ back to the earth, and mainstream Christianity is far from the true foundation and teachings.

Your heaven is fictitious and consists of separate fictitious kingdoms. The principles and ordinances are not of God.

Paul tells us there are 3 heavens. Paul tells us the name of 2 of them, JS tells us the name of the 3rd heaven. So keep in the dark if you wish. Again, this is part of the meat that Paul was not able to give to the Corinthians because they would not receive it. You are following in their footsteps.

Jesus bought and fully paid for the salvation of His followers with His blood.

Of course he did, that is a true statement, that is what we teach.

Rescued One · Dec 4, 2017

Peter1000 said:
At that time in your life how did you know that you were hearing false doctrine? You say you never read the bible, so how did you know?

Because I knew that gods and goddesses were part of Greek mythology and that Christians whom I knew at school never said anything like that.

Peter1000 said:
Wow, how extreme is it to study a relief society lesson.

In a church that demands a huge percentage of one's time, it is a waste to be required to study cultural refinement (social studies?), homemaking (i. e.painting seashells and gluing plastic flower stems into them, dental hygiene, keeping house), social relations, spiritual living (false teachings).

Peter1000 said:
And how nasty it must have been to make a useless craft.

In a church that demands a huge percentage of one's time, it is a waste to be required to make ugly crafts that would end up in the landfill when we could be using that time to sew clothing or to make something useful for our homes.

Peter1000 said:
What 2 men are you talking about, you mean God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

This is not my God:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same."
Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64

Peter1000 said:
How horrible to worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Do you feel OK?

What an insensitive thing to say! I didn't say I wasn't interested in worshiping God.

Peter1000 said:
Jesus worshipped God the Father as the Supreme God. He worshipped Him as his God and Father. (see John 17:20). So does LDS.

LDS also listens to God the Father when he says "this is My son, hear him". Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments, and so we try to lead Christ-centered lives, as God the Father says to do.
Do you?

I've answered that multiple times.

Peter1000 said:
The thousands of Christian churches worship God and worship Jesus and worship the HS in a thousand different ways. There are many that are Trinitarians, there are many that are Oneness, there are many that are Sebellians, there are many that are Tritheists, etc., etc., etc.

They are worshiping different gods.

As Joseph Smith said:
“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

Another God:
I had learned to call thee Father, Through thy Spirit from on high,
But until the key of knowledge Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heavens are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason, truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there.
- Eliza R. Snow

Peter1000 said:
You seem to have a problem just following men. Would you have followed Peter and James and John, apostles of Jesus Christ?

I would have compared their message to what Christ had taught.

1 Corinthians 1
10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Peter1000 said:
Jesus taught way more Mormonism than he taught mainstream Christian doctrine. For instance your most elequent doctrine and one you focus on with great passion is by grace are you saved, not of works lest ye boast.

Try this one:
32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 4

Peter1000 said:
Jesus did not use the word grace once in all of his sermons, but he did talk about how one becomes perfect in their good works.

2 Corinthians 12
7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

Peter1000 said:
Mormonism incorprates both good works, perfection and enduring to the end that Jesus taught, and grace are ye saved as Paul taught. We teach the whole, you teach 1/2 and the 1/2 you teach is not from Jesus.

Peter, do you believe Jesus said this: My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness?

I do.

Peter1000 · Dec 5, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
Because I knew that gods and goddesses were part of Greek mythology and that Christians whom I knew at school never said anything like that.

How old were you when you first learned of gods and goddesses, and who taught you?

In a church that demands a huge percentage of one's time, it is a waste to be required to study cultural refinement (social studies?), homemaking (i. e.painting seashells and gluing plastic flower stems into them, dental hygiene, keeping house), social relations, spiritual living (false teachings).

If you are living a Christ-centered life, and are following the Lord Jesus Christ and the kind of life he lead, you will find that a huge percentage of your time will be given to build up the KOG here on earth. A huge percentage of your time will be to self educate and refining yourself so that you are an articulate, smart, lovely, blessed, daughter of God in these turbulent and anti-god times.

The Lords house is a house of order and beauty and knowledge and obedience, and therefore you should know early in life such things as dental hygiene, and general hygiene, and keeping house, along with social relations, and spiritual living. It all ties in together with a life that is centered in Jesus.
So I do not see what your talking about with such vitriolic words as being so distressful, and it certainly does not take away from Jesus, it conforms to him and his teachings.

If all you do is sit around studying Jesus's words, but never put them into action, but stay to yourself and don't socially interact to help people come to know Jesus, then what kind of a life is that?

What an insensitive thing to say! I didn't say I wasn't interested in worshiping God.

Will you worship God when you find out that Jesus is completely separate from His God and Father, but They are one in Their perfect purpose, and that is to bring salvation to all men and women.

Try this one:
32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 4

I believe this teaching. Should we be this way to each other too?

Peter, do you believe Jesus said this: My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness?

Since Jesus never used the word, and Paul used it a lot, I would rather think that Paul interjected that word into his experience. That is my first reaction.

My second reaction is that I can believe this straight-forward. Jesus may have said this exact thing to Paul and I believe this teaching. Jesus's grace is sufficient for us, but that does not relinquish us from following and obeying his commandments as he has taught us, and does not give us an automatic pass into heaven.

IOW just believing in Jesus and believing his grace is sufficient for us does not mean that we are automatically saved. Belief is one thing, having charity is a whole other level of Christian living. If you believe and hope and work and try hard and do all things and think your in, but you have not charity, you are not going to be in.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8King James Version (KJV)
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth...

This is the type of person that will enter into the highest levels of heaven. Mormons add to this the idea that Jesus's grace is sufficient to finalize your journey to heaven, but only those that exhibit these qualities will be given the gift of eternal life. There will be many who will exhibit good qualities, but not the qualities of charity. They will enter into heaven, but not into the highest level of heaven.

Do you see how the 3 levels of heaven work. Those that believe, are born again, are faithful and love Jesus, and keep his commandments and exhibit the qualities of charity (see above) will enter into the highest level (Celestial).
Those that are good people that believe in Jesus, but love the world too, and so are not willing to exhibit the qualities of charity will enter heaven, but not the highest level (Terestrial). Those who are not interested in the qualities of charity at all will even have a place in heaven, but at the lowest levels of heaven (Telestial). There is one more level, those who reject the HS will find themselves in a place called 'outer darkness' (not that it is dark, but it is that God the Father, or Jesus Christ, or the HS will never be present, ever).

Ironhold · Dec 5, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
In a church that demands a huge percentage of one's time, it is a waste to be required to study cultural refinement (social studies?), homemaking (i. e.painting seashells and gluing plastic flower stems into them, dental hygiene, keeping house), social relations, spiritual living (false teachings).

Take a good, hard look at modern society and then get back to me on whether those are truly a "waste of time".

ugly crafts

This stands out to me...

What an insensitive thing to say! I didn't say I wasn't interested in worshiping God.

That's how your posts have come across.

Rescued One · Dec 5, 2017

Peter1000 said:
How old were you when you first learned of gods and goddesses, and who taught you?

My age is irrelevent. The person who mentioned it was a lifetime Mormon in good standing.

Peter1000 said:
If you are living a Christ-centered life, and are following the Lord Jesus Christ and the kind of life he lead, you will find that a huge percentage of your time will be given to build up the KOG here on earth. A huge percentage of your time will be to self educate and refining yourself so that you are an articulate, smart, lovely, blessed, daughter of God in these turbulent and anti-god times.

Intelligence isn't something a woman gives herself.

intelligence
a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason
(2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (such as tests)

Peter1000 said:
you should know early in life such things as dental hygiene, and general hygiene, and keeping house, along with social relations, and spiritual living.

When was Relief Society organized for children?

Peter1000 said:
It all ties in together with a life that is centered in Jesus.
So I do not see what your talking about with such vitriolic words as being so distressful, and it certainly does not take away from Jesus, it conforms to him and his teachings.

It takes away from time with our children, our housekeeping, and studying the Word of God.

Peter1000 said:
If all you do is sit around studying Jesus's words, but never put them into action, but stay to yourself and don't socially interact to help people come to know Jesus, then what kind of a life is that?

Nursing my babies, doing laundry, folding clothes, ironing clothes, cleaning up spilled messes, vacuuming, scrubbing floors, washing windows, cooking, washing dishes, putting the dishes away, caring for sick children, reading to children, teaching children so they'll be ready for kindergarten, baking cookies with children, gardening with children, cooking meals, grocery shopping, wrapping gifts, giving birthday parties, caring for someone's autistic child so she could finish high school, was definitely not sitting around all day!

Peter1000 said:
Will you worship God when you find out that Jesus is completely separate from His God and Father, but They are one in Their perfect purpose, and that is to bring salvation to all men and women.

I already follow the true God and being a widow gives me more time in His word than I ever had as a Mormon. Mormons aren't universalists.

Peter1000 said:
I believe this teaching. Should we be this way to each other too?

Since Jesus never used the word, and Paul used it a lot, I would rather think that Paul interjected that word into his experience. That is my first reaction.

Jesus said it and Christians believe it. We don't need an automatic pass into heaven. We need the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. You won't find the word "automatic" in the Bible. You will find the word grace in God's word.

Peter1000 said:
My second reaction is that I can believe this straight-forward. Jesus may have said this exact thing to Paul and I believe this teaching. Jesus's grace is sufficient for us, but that does not relinquish us from following and obeying his commandments as he has taught us, and does not give us an automatic pass into heaven.

You don't trust the Bible. We are aware of that.

Peter1000 said:
IOW just believing in Jesus and believing his grace is sufficient for us does not mean that we are automatically saved. Belief is one thing, having charity is a whole other level of Christian living. If you believe and hope and work and try hard and do all things and think your in, but you have not charity, you are not going to be in.

There is no such thing as a Christian who hasn't been given charity.

19We love him, because he first loved us. 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4

Peter1000 said:
This is the type of person that will enter into the highest levels of heaven.

There aren't any levels in heaven. Eternal life is life in heaven with God. All Christians have eternal life because their names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

Ephesians 1
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love NIV

Jude 1
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy – NIV

1 Corinthians 1
8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV

Ironhold · Dec 6, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
When was Relief Society organized for children?

Again, take a look at how society is these days.

What you so openly mock is now a bulwark against cultural degeneracy itself.

Rescued One · Dec 6, 2017

Peter1000 said:
Paul tells us there are 3 heavens. Paul tells us the name of 2 of them, JS tells us the name of the 3rd heaven. So keep in the dark if you wish. Again, this is part of the meat that Paul was not able to give to the Corinthians because they would not receive it. You are following in their footsteps.

NO, doctrine isn't meat and false doctrine most certainly is not meat.

There are three heavens, and only the third one is where God takes the sheep.
1. Our Immediate Atmosphere
Matthew 6
26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

The Greek word ouranos can mean air, sky, or heaven:

James 5
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

2. Outer Space (The Sun, Moon, And Stars)
Deuteronomy 4 NIV
19And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

3. The Home Of God
Hebrews 9
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

I said, "Jesus bought and fully paid for the salvation of His followers with His blood."

Peter1000 said:
Of course he did, that is a true statement, that is what we teach.

In order for readers to understand your statement, I will enlighten them:

“Because of His Atonement, everyone* born on this earth will be resurrected…. This condition is called immortality” (Gospel Principles [2009], 62).

*atheists, agnostics, pagans, witches, and any non-Christian religonists

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”
Articles of Faith 3

“Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3; D&C 131:1–4; 132:21–24). To receive this great gift, we must do more than repent of our sins and be baptized and confirmed by appropriate priesthood authority. Men must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and all Church members must make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including eternal marriage.”
True to the Faith [2004], p. 153

We frequently see statements from LDS that are designed to fool people into believeing that biblical Christianity is accepted by Mormons. This is done by withholding information.

Rescued One · Dec 6, 2017

Peter1000 said:
Jesus taught way more Mormonism than he taught mainstream Christian doctrine. For instance your most elequent doctrine and one you focus on with great passion is by grace are you saved, not of works lest ye boast.

I replied, "Try this one: 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 4"

Ephesians 4:32 is my favorite

verse. So Ephesians 2:1-10 aren't the only verses I love.

Ironhold · Dec 6, 2017

Seriously, Phoebe -

In light of what's going on in the world nowadays, and a lot of what we're seeing with the "Millennial" generation, do you still believe that Relief Society serves no purpose?

LDS Contradictions Regarding Holy Ghost

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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