From jewishhistory.org :
The destruction of the Temple, and the subsequent destruction of the national entity of the Jewish people, occurred to a great degree because of warfare among the Jews themselves.
Upvote
0
Gog/Magog
- Thread starter Douggg
- Start date
From jewishhistory.org :
The destruction of the Temple, and the subsequent destruction of the national entity of the Jewish people, occurred to a great degree because of warfare among the Jews themselves.
The Bible says that Gog Magog occurs after the 1000 years. I'm not sure how you can place Gog Magog 7 years before Armageddon????????
Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Upvote
0
tranquil
Newbie
- Sep 29, 2011
- 1,377
- 158
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
the flood is this from Daniel 11:22 & Daniel 11:31 (flood of arms in verse 22 Daniel 11:22 Interlinear: And the arms of the flood are overflowed from before him, and are broken; and also the leader of the covenant.
this flood of armies are the locusts of the 5th Trumpet that lasts for 5 months. then they place the abomination statue that desecrates the temple. This is Luke 21:20's 'abomination army' that places the abomination statue.
How does Daniel 8:13-14's 2300 evenings & mornings relate to Daniel 12:11-12's 1290 days & 1335 days?
Here, imo, is how Revelation is laid out.
The Biblical month is a lunar month which is 29.5 days. So, 5 months is 147 days and 42 months is 1239 days (42 x .5 days = 21 days shorter than 1260 days). Thus, a literal reading of Daniel 12:7's 'time, times, and half time' is 42 lunar months, 1239 days. 1239 days (42 months) + 147 days (5 months) + 1239 days (42 months) = 2625 days = 1290 days + 1335 days.
Daniel 8's 2300 evenings & mornings (notice it says there that 'then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated') = 1150 days. It takes 7 days to sanctify the sanctuary (Ezekiel 43:26). So, the sanctuary will be trampled for 1143 days with a lack of sacrifice or bad sacrifices, then 7 days to reconsecrate it.
147 days of locusts + 1143 days of the abomination = 1290 days Dan 12:11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.
the locusts take away the daily sacrifices: Joel 1:4-9
4What the cutting locust left,
the swarming locust has eaten.
What the swarming locust left,
the hopping locust has eaten,
and what the hopping locust left,
the destroying locust has eaten.
5Awake, you drunkards, and weep,
and wail, all you drinkers of wine,
because of the sweet wine,
for it is cut off from your mouth.
6For a nation has come up against my land,
powerful and beyond number;
its teeth are lions’ teeth,
and it has the fangs of a lioness.
7It has laid waste my vine
and splintered my fig tree;
it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down;
their branches are made white.
8Lament like a virgin wearing sackcloth
for the bridegroom of her youth.
9The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off
from the house of the Lord.
The priests mourn,
the ministers of the Lord.
the swarming locust has eaten.
What the swarming locust left,
the hopping locust has eaten,
and what the hopping locust left,
the destroying locust has eaten.
5Awake, you drunkards, and weep,
and wail, all you drinkers of wine,
because of the sweet wine,
for it is cut off from your mouth.
6For a nation has come up against my land,
powerful and beyond number;
its teeth are lions’ teeth,
and it has the fangs of a lioness.
7It has laid waste my vine
and splintered my fig tree;
it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down;
their branches are made white.
8Lament like a virgin wearing sackcloth
for the bridegroom of her youth.
9The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off
from the house of the Lord.
The priests mourn,
the ministers of the Lord.
Here is the star sign I reference in the graph.
Mercury & the moon form the arms of the cross, Jupiter & Venus are in conjunction, and Saturn forms the bottom of the cross.
the great tribulation starts on a winter solstice Matthew 24:15-24, emphasis on verse 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
but the context here is all events of the seals, trumpets, & bowls.
the 'middle of the 70 '7's of Daniel 9:24-27 is half of 490 years (and 7 years) which is 245 years. July 4, 1776 Declaration of Independence + 245 years is July 4, 2021, also the 1290th day from the winter solstice, 2017. (bible days go dusk to dusk: dusk Dec 21, 2017 add 1290 days gets to dusk July 3, 2021.
So, going 42 months prior or after July 4, 2021 would give us the 7 years of covenant.
So, like you said in the OP, there is a war prior to the 7 years, yes that appears to be the case. It would be the 2nd Seal war. The true 5 months of Revelation 9's 5th trumpet would be 5 months prior to July 4, 2021. Looking at the graph, we can see that the 2nd Trumpet's burning mountain (which we know is the fall of Babylon from Jeremiah 51:25) occurs at the end of the 1239 days, the initial 42 months.
After the initial 42 months people are 'coming out of the great tribulation' Revelation 7:14. At the 1290 days marker, there are 3 divisions of people: 1) the beast from the sea kingdom, 2) the faithful who have come out of the tribulation and are now gathered (there is no 'whisked away rapture') who now become part of the 2 witnesses/ 144,000 sealed, and 3) the false prophet who comes out of the gathered group to lead the faithful gathered astray. Just like in the Exodus story, after the Hebrews came out of their great tribulation with Egypt, Moses' brother Aaron created the golden calf abomination idol.
At the 6th Trumpet, the 200 million man army is the army of God that is gathered together out of the 'great tribulation' of the 1st half of the 7 years. (Psalm 68:17) the locusts in the 6th Trumpet war are the army that brings the false prophet to power for the last 1239 days/ 42 months of the 1290, then 1335 days combination. these locusts are imitating God's army, they think that the false prophet is God.
You already understand that the false prophet will confirm the Mosaic covenant on a Yom Kippur: within the framework here, it seems that this will occur on Yom Kippur in 2021. (dusk Sept 15 to dusk Sept 16, 2021. Add 1260 days to dusk Sept. 16, 2021 and you get dusk Feb 27, 2025 Date Calculator: Add to or Subtract From a Date – Results
from dusk Dec 21, 2017 add 1290 days (to break the covenant in the middle of 70 '7's, dusk July 3, 2021), then add 1335 days to get to the same date of Feb 27, 2025
Date Calculator: Add to or Subtract From a Date – Results
So, the Gog war would take place after "Israel" has been gathered and are living in safety. This gathering happens after people are gathered at the 6th/ 7th Seal, then the gog war can happen. If it results in a physical temple, then the gog war would happen at around the mid point/ July 4, 2021.
Upvote
0
seventysevens
Well-Known Member
OK, that is possible the temple is destroyed by the Jews , that could be; that because the temple that was built for the True Messiah has been defiled by the False messiah who is partnered with the False Prophet.
2thess2
He who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
When the false messiah sits in the temple proclaiming that he is God , the Messianic Jews are outraged at this happening and revolt against this False messiah , The False messiah sends out the order to kill all Jews in Judea and surrounding areas at the middle of the WEEK .
As we all know everything that needs to put inside the new temple is already made and ready to be put in place , blueprints and the financial matters have been discussed and the temple is going to be built soon , as with any political controversial matter the top brass has to iron out the details then construction will begin . It has already been determined they can finish the temple in 2-3 years
The most important point though is the ruler who confirms the covenant is Not Jesus
The false messiah who has the partner false prophet is the one who confirms the covenant
Upvote
0
You missed the time tense:
From jewishhistory.org :
The destruction of the Temple, and the subsequent destruction of the national entity of the Jewish people, occurred to a great degree because of warfare among the Jews themselves.
The reference is to the AD 70 period.
Upvote
0
seventysevens
Well-Known Member
No, I did not miss the time sense , as your article speaks of a temple that was destroyed nearly 2000 years ago ,
The temple Jesus speaks of in the Olivet discourse has not yet been built ,
Scripture CLEARLY teaches God saying that HE will send a delusion to cause those who reject the truth to believe a lie.
That lie is a man who sits in an earthly temple that is yet to be built and claim he is Almighty God and he has a False prophet who calls fire down from heaven in sight of people to show people he is God , he also works supernatural miracles to convince people he is God and God has said He is causing the lie to happen simply because people have rejected the truth of His words
Just because you see things in history that are similar to future events does not indicate that the false messiah has already come and died
Simple analogy you see a 1967 Sting Ray Gran Sport at a gas station as you drive by and then see another one 2 miles up the road coming toward you , same make , same model , same color 2 DIFFERENT cars it would be foolish to say it is the same car that was in the gas station.
Last summer I watched a news interview with the PM of Israel and the reporter asked him about the peace talks between Israel and their enemies and the PM stated that in any peace treaty that Israel would sign the words of guarantee of Peace and safety for all of Israels people must be in the peace treaty before they would consider signing it.
If you can think to yourself that how you view things now could be wrong and search for info on the future prophecies coming to pass you will find it , but if you do not seek it you won't find it until it is too late . This is why Jesus said that the delusion would be so strong that it could deceive even the elect if they did not keep their eyes and mind open. He said do not allow anyone to convince them of any deception.
If a person is so convinced all prophecy has already happened they are not keeping their eyes and mind open
Upvote
0
Mat 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
When will these things be? What things was Christ talking about in verse 2 ?
The first question is about the destruction of the second temple.
.
Upvote
0
We haven't been discussing the Olivet discourse. We've been discussing Daniel 9, and in particular verse 26, and who it was that destroyed the city and sanctuary:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
The following excerpt (from a Jewish site) confirms Daniel's prediction that the Jews themselves (the people of the prince, i.e. Messiah, that would come) would be to a great degree responsible for their own destruction:
From jewishhistory.org :
The destruction of the Temple, and the subsequent destruction of the national entity of the Jewish people, occurred to a great degree because of warfare among the Jews themselves.
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground .
Maybe Jesus was referring to this instead----shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground . That should include the wailing wall that is still standing. Thus it is a contradiction of the text if He was meaning what took place in 70 AD when He said---not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Obviously that wasn't the case in 70 AD if the wailing wall is still standing.
Jesus asked---Do you not see all these things? Why would you think that might not be including the wailing wall?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
According to Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron the wall now called "The Wailing Wall" was built after the completion of Herod's temple, based on a Roman coin he found underground at the base of the wall.
That whole area is actually the remains of Roman Fort Antonia, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city of Jerusalem during the time of Christ.
Roman forts built in other nations of that time period, are about the same size and shape as the area now known as "The Temple Mount".
During 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left in Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.
See the link below and read the book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke.
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia
.
Upvote
0
seventysevens
Well-Known Member
In Daniel 9 we find in the 70 weeks prophecy that there would be a decree of the prophetic clock of the seventy sevens of the End times when a decree to rebuild Jerusalem , from that date would be 483 years .
That decree was given by King Artaxerxes in 445 B.C. .In a bible prophetic year there are 360 days -Dan9-26 when Jesus the prince who was cut off (dies)but not for himself , but for his purpose to be sacrificed as the sacrificial lamb to give salvation to all the world
John 10:18
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
In 33 A.D. when Jesus is crucified for His Purpose ,69 weeks have been completed
The 70th week is yet to come and will begin when people of the prince who is yet to come(Dan9:26)"And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"
This is accepted meaning/teaching by nearly all scholars who are truly knowledgeable on this topic
Daniel 9 is in perfect harmony of all scriptures throughout the bible pertaining to the abomination that makes desolation in Matt24/Mark13
in Dan9-26 it speaks of the prince who is killed and the prince who is yet to come ,
two different people and simple level logic would indicate that if they were the same person the scripture would have stated it as such
The temple Jesus said in Mat24-2 would be destroyed was in destroyed 70 A.D. and is not the temple that Jesus referred to in Matt 24-15 as it has not yet been built, that would be the temple referred to in 2Thess
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Daniel 9:24 contains a summary of the 70 weeks prophecy.
Was it fulfilled by Christ during the first century?
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
The Hebrew calendar contained periodic corrections to the 360 days.
If these corrections are not made the seasons are reversed in less than 40 years, because of the 5.25 day per year error.
5.25 x 40 years = 210 day error
If you want to understand the ancient calendar of the Israelites, read the book "The Atonement Clock" by Christian Gedge.
.
The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.
There were also Bible scholars during that time.
Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
.
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I did go to that link and managed to read about half of it thusfar. A bit lengthy. Not certain what to make of it yet. That author seemed to take Josephus' word for things over the thoughts of other scholars. Maybe this author had good reason? I still have a lot more to read at that link, so I haven't as of yet read enough in that link to form an opinion one way or the other.
Upvote
0
The correct date of the beginning of the 70 weeks was able to be established after the 1913 publication of Martin Anstey's Romance of Bible Chronology, which used exclusively scriptural dates and durations, as opposed to the previously erroneous secular Ptolemaic chronology. Scofield himself recognized and adopted the Anstey chronology. It places the beginning of the 70 weeks interval at 457-456 BC.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Christian Gedge
Well-Known Member
- Nov 29, 2017
- 1,214
- 1,361
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I never noticed Anstey saying that. Did he place the beginning at 1st nisan 457 or 1st nisan 456?
Upvote
0
"The true date of the 1st year of Cyrus is therefore B.C. 454, not B C. 536, which makes the Chronology of this period 82 years too long." (The Romance of Bible Chronology, p. 25)
A couple of years difference, but close enough.
As I've no doubt you're aware, Cyrus issued the "commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" referenced in Daniel 9:25.
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
When I read that same account I'm not seeing two feasts there that happen at different times. It's all meaning the same feast, but from different angles.
Ezekiel 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
The following part sets this future feast in motion----
Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
Notice that it says this----even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel. Compare that with the following---and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel---thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
If what I have underlined is not referring to the same events, I then give up.
Ezekiel 39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
If Gog and his multitude do not consist of horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, I give up here as well.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- May 28, 2009
- 28,776
- 3,419
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
David, in Revelation 19 when Jesus returns -
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
