Gog/Magog

Douggg

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No decapitated 70th week:

198-203 AD Clement of Alexandria (On Daniel 9:24-27 ; The 'Seventy Weeks' of Daniel):

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.
jgr,

What is the war or battle that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? That war is preceded by the 7 months cleanup of the aftermath of Gog/Magog, and the 7 years of burning the weapons.
 
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jgr

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jgr,

What is the war or battle that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? That war is preceded by the 7 months cleanup of the aftermath of Gog/Magog, and the 7 years of burning the weapons.

I'm not certain, Douggg. Clement did not cover that in his commentary.
 
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Biblewriter

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No decapitated 70th week:

198-203 AD Clement of Alexandria (On Daniel 9:24-27 ; The 'Seventy Weeks' of Daniel):

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.

I am fully aware that there were people of that general time period that said such things. but my point in posting this was that it is simple nonsense to cite something written a little over 400 yeas ago, as if its age made it authoritative. For the opposite view can be found from 1400 years earlier than that. For Irenaeus also spoke of the last half of the seventieth week as coming in the future.
 
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Douggg

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What is your rationale for associating it with Daniel 9:24-27? There is no similarity in language or description of events.
The battle of Armageddon, the assembly of the world's armies to make war on Jesus, in Revelation 16, Revelation 19, is what causes Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Revelation 16 is caused by the beast, Satan, and the false prophet convincing the kings of the earth to fight Jesus. The beast in Revelation 11 kills the two witnesses at the end of the 1260 days testimony - which begins at the start of the 7 years.

Those 7 years correspond to the 7 years prior to Ezekiel 39:17-20, which immediately follows Gog/Magog.

In Daniel 9:26-27, the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years, which there are abominations from the middle part of the 7 years, to the end of the war, completing the 70 weeks.

What war? The war in Revelation 16, that the Kings of Earth make on Jesus. The war that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20. The battle of Armageddon.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
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BABerean2

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Irenaeus also spoke of the last half of the seventieth week as coming in the future.

Apparently Irenaeus did not understand that the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah.

Do you know what Irenaeus wrote about the fulfillment of the New Covenant?

Why would we think the angel forgot to mention the New Covenant spoken by Christ at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28?

As a matter of fact, the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

.
 
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jgr

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The battle of Armageddon, the assembly of the world's armies to make war on Jesus, in Revelation 16, Revelation 19, is what causes Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Revelation 16 is caused by the beast, Satan, and the false prophet convincing the kings of the earth to fight Jesus. The beast in Revelation 11 kills the two witnesses at the end of the 1260 days testimony - which begins at the start of the 7 years.

Those 7 years correspond to the 7 years prior to Ezekiel 39:17-20, which immediately follows Gog/Magog.

In Daniel 9:26-27, the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years, which there are abominations from the middle part of the 7 years, to the end of the war, completing the 70 weeks.

What war? The war in Revelation 16, that the Kings of Earth make on Jesus. The war that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20. The battle of Armageddon.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Clement recognized the associated war in his statement "And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place."
 
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Douggg

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Clement recognized the associated war in his statement "And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place."
Is the temple still desolate?

If the temple is still desolate, the 70 ad Jewish revolt wars is not the war that completes the 70 weeks.


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end (<<<< of the 70 weeks>>>>) thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The war is the war of Revelation 16, Revelation 19, against Jesus.
 
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jgr

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Is the temple still desolate?

If the temple is still desolate, the 70 ad Jewish revolt wars is not the war that completes the 70 weeks.


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The war is the war of Revelation 16, Revelation 19, against Jesus.

"Desolate" described the state, resulting from abomination, of something which still existed i.e. the temple.

The temple was destroyed thereafter.

Therefore, the temple is no longer desolate.
 
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Douggg

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"Desolate" described the state, resulting from abomination, of something which still existed i.e. the temple.

The temple was destroyed thereafter.

Therefore, the temple is no longer desolate.
desolate, not no longer existing.

The temple will be desolate "until the end of the war" which implies that the temple will be both in existence and no longer desolate - once the war is over.


This is the 70 AD part, which the temple is destroyed in the text, not limited to being desolated. I think we can agree on this portion, as the destruction being 70AD.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary



This is the end times part, which the temple will be made desolate until the end of the war (the war made on Jesus)

; and the end thereof (<<<<<of the seventy weeks>>>> ) shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There are two desolations coming:
1.The transgression of desolation
2. The abomination of desolation
 
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seventysevens

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Apparently Irenaeus did not understand that the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah.

Do you know what Irenaeus wrote about the fulfillment of the New Covenant?

Why would we think the angel forgot to mention the New Covenant spoken by Christ at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28?

As a matter of fact, the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

.
James Lloyd's False Prophecy: It's ALL About THE MONEY!
FOR THE GLORY OF THE LORD :: Main chat :: Did James Lloyd Lie Under Oath? | Runboard

After reviewing the link you provided from your spiritual leader , I found numerous false teachings and I did a quick search on James Lloyd - seems he has a rather seedy unkempt ministry tactic to put it nicely , not exactly in the running for any 'well done' commendation :)
 
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jgr

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and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The prince is Messiah. He is the only one identified as a prince in the passage.

There are two perspectives regarding the people of the prince, both valid.
1. The Roman armies, which were God's instruments of judgment. Elsewhere, e.g. Jeremiah 43:10-13, God described pagan Nebuchadnezzar whom He chose as an instrument of judgment as "My servant."
2. The Jews themselves, whom Josephus documents as being responsible for much of the destruction which was unleashed.
 
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seventysevens

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25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.


26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

[Notice the Messiah has been cut off which means Died no longer living]

[the ruler is the one people call antichrist ] he confirms the covenant , the Messiah is not the one who's people destroy the city and sanctuary-they built it The Messiah does not setup the abomination that cause desolation , the real Messiah is in heaven when this happens , and also note that satan is also known as the Prince of the atmosphere/Prince of this world and it is he that causes this to happen

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
 
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Tom 1

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Daniel 9:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38, up to Ezekiel 39:16, happens here. The 7 years following are this week in verse 27


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:21- 29 beginning of the millennium, happens here


What are you linking these passages to, I mean in terms of current events?
 
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BABerean2

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James Lloyd's False Prophecy: It's ALL About THE MONEY!
FOR THE GLORY OF THE LORD :: Main chat :: Did James Lloyd Lie Under Oath? | Runboard

After reviewing the link you provided from your spiritual leader , I found numerous false teachings and I did a quick search on James Lloyd - seems he has a rather seedy unkempt ministry tactic to put it nicely , not exactly in the running for any 'well done' commendation :)

If you do not like what the man said, then find someone who is willing to accuse him.

Who is the chief accuser of the Brethren?

Rev_12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


See what kind of dirt you can find on Dr. Kelly Varner.
He has the same viewpoint of Daniel chapter 9.



.
 
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Douggg

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What are you linking these passages to, I mean in terms of current events?
Tom, Gog/Magog in current events are the muslim nations with Russia as an ally.

Jews are currently looking for their messiah, who will be anointed the King of Israel, descended from King David. One of their expectation of their messiah is that he fights the battles of God in defending Israel. Another is that he will be a great politician.

Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that all future leaders of Israel, confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, emphasizing that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. This requirement would apply to their messiah as well.

The cycle for confirming the covenant is 7 years. Basically it will be a big speech made to the nation Israel - from the temple mount, as part of the requirement is that the speech be made from the place of God's choosing. Which the Jews currently take to be the temple mount.

Okay those are the current expectations.
___________________________________________________________________
When Gog/Magog appears imminent, the little horn person (not yet in place) leader of the EU will stage his army in Greece, one of the former breakup kingdoms of Alexander's empire, as a deterrent.

The Gog attack takes place anyway and God destroys Gog's army. It is not clear whether the little horn's army actively participates.

In the aftermath, the little horn moves his army in the middle east on the premise of peace stability, but the actual motivator will be take over all the oil for the EU. Which oil resources are a current concern for the Europeans.

Jews believe the messianic age will begin following Gog/Magog. So the little horn person will be perceived to that messiah person, and will be anointed the king of Israel.

His willingness to stop Gog/Magog will be perceived by the Jews as him intentioned to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. Of course, being the leader of the EU qualifies him as a great politician.

The little horn person, anointed the King of Israel, will make the big speech from the temple mount, confirming the covenant for 7 years, which it will be readily apparent that somewhere in the speech he will refer back to Moses making the requirement.

The Jews and the world will thus think they have entered the messianic era of peace and safety. 1Thessalonians5:2-3.

In the middle part of the 7 years, the person does the unthinkable, goes into the temple sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. His involvement in "craft", kabbalah it appears, gone array. Daniel 8:24-25.

The Jews mortified will impeach him as their King of Israel, ending his role as the Antichrist. At this point, the person has become the revealed man of sin for committing the "Transgression of Desolation."

God has the person killed for the act in Ezekiel 28:1-10. When the person finds himself in hell and taunted, God in disdain for the person casts him out of the grave, bringing him back to life...Isaiah 14:19-20, to be not long thereafter cast alive into the lake of fire.

For the remainder of the 7 years, which started following Gog/Magog, the person is the beast in Revelation. At the end of the 7 years, God brings an end to his time. The heavens part in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God, the time of his vengeance has come on the beast and the evil men of the world.

In reaction, the beast, Satan, and the false prophet in Revelation 16, convince the kings of the earth, to make war on Jesus, assembling their armies at Armageddon.

In Revelation 19, Jesus descends to earth, and carries out judgment on those armies gathered together to make war on him. That judgment is the Ezekiel 39:17-20 verses.
_____________________________________________________________________

Current events of what to look for, aside from Gog/Magog itself, is that the EU reorganizes its government to have ten leaders with one leader over them.

That one leader will be the little horn person, who subsequently becomes the Antichrist, illegimate King of Israel, then becomes the revealed man of sin, then becomes the beast of Revelation.
 
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Douggg

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The prince is Messiah. He is the only one identified as a prince in the passage.
That's a wrong interpretation because the war following Gog/Magog 7 years later, that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20 hasn't happen yet.
 
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jgr

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That's a wrong interpretation because the war following Gog/Magog 7 years later, that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20 hasn't happen yet.
Who other than Messiah is identified as a prince in the Daniel passage?

There is no connection between the Daniel and the Ezekiel passages.
 
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