Yes, traditional Church teaching on capital punishment is definitive

LivingWordUnity · Nov 22, 2017

"Given the 'hermeneutic of continuity' emphasized by Pope Benedict XVI – and given especially the teaching of the First Vatican Council that popes have no authority to introduce new doctrines – the only way to reconcile them is to interpret Francis’s statements in a way that is consistent with the teaching of his predecessors. Scripture, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and the popes for 2000 years have taught that capital punishment can be legitimate in principle." More

Source:
Catholic World Report - November 21, 2017

Michie · Nov 22, 2017

LivingWordUnity said:
View attachment 213898
"Given the 'hermeneutic of continuity' emphasized by Pope Benedict XVI – and given especially the teaching of the First Vatican Council that popes have no authority to introduce new doctrines – the only way to reconcile them is to interpret Francis’s statements in a way that is consistent with the teaching of his predecessors. Scripture, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and the popes for 2000 years have taught that capital punishment can be legitimate in principle." More

Source:
Catholic World Report - November 21, 2017

There is this as well. I thought you may be interested in it incase you missed it in the other thread.

“By Man Shall His Blood be Shed, A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment” : A Review – The American Catholic

LivingWordUnity · Nov 22, 2017

Michie said:
There is this as well. I thought you may be interested in it incase you missed it in the other thread.

“By Man Shall His Blood be Shed, A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment” : A Review – The American Catholic

Thanks for letting me know about that article.

Michie · Nov 22, 2017

LivingWordUnity said:
Thanks for letting me know about that article.

No problem!

StevenMerten · Nov 23, 2017

Hello LivingWordUnity

Jesus upped the anti on capital punishment. Where Moses prescribed physical death capital punishment, Jesus switched up to spiritual death capital punishment. Jesus commands His Church that if her eye, foot or hand is her undoing, she is to cut it off and throw it into Gehenna. 90 times in the bible the term ‘cut off’ means put to death, inferring to cut off a person from the body of people by putting them to death. Jesus switches this up to commanding His Church to cut off evil doers by putting them to spiritual death, using the Keys to the Kingdom (the binding and loosting of sins).

Jesus Commands His Church not to let the evil doers pull the whole body of His Church into hell, but to ‘cut off’, and throw into hell those that try to pull His Church into hell through their unrepentant evil deeds. The use of Church auto anathemas (spiritual death capital punishment) should be a top consideration in our time, where Christ’s Church is, in deed, in peril of having her whole body pulled into hell by the massive unrepentant evil surrounding her and infiltrating her body.

MATTHEW 18:5
"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.

MATTHEW 5:22
What I say to you is: everyone who grows angry with his brother shall be liable to judgement; any man who uses abusive language toward his brother shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and if he holds him in contempt he risks the fires of Gehenna.

MATTHEW 16:13
Jesus replied, "Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are 'Rock,' and on this rock I will build my church,and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

REVELATION 1:16
A sharp, two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest. When I caught sight of him I fell down at his feet as though dead, he touched me with his right hand and said: "There is nothing to fear. I am the First and the Last and the One who lives. Once I was dead but now I live-- forever and ever. I hold the keys of death and the nether world."

ISAIAH 11:4 The Rule of Immanuel

He shall strike the ruthless with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked.

JOHN 20:20
At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. "Peace be with you," he said again. "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." Then he breathed on them and said: "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."

MATTHEW 18:17
"If he ignores them, refer it to the church . If he ignores even the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. I assure you, whatever you declare bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven, and whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven."

StevenMerten · Nov 26, 2017

St. Peter At the Pearly Gates

When you die, you are not going to meet St. Peter at the pearly gates. Upon death you will face any Church Anathemas and Church absolutions from sins, that you encountered in life, which will assist you in or lock you out, of heaven.

Jesus blew the Holy Spirit on His twelve Apostles and swore that He will not forgive in heaven anyone whom His Apostles, (and their Successors), call upon Him to bind to sin. Jesus lips proclaiming sinners bound to their sins in heaven is described as a two edged sword coming out of Jesus' mouth, with which to slay the wicked. Jesus, thus, has armed His Apostles, whom are represented in our Pope and Bishops of today, with the spiritual death weapon, the sword of His mouth, which is present in His Church as Church Anathema. Jesus wills His Apostles to draw His weapon and wield it to protect His Bride, the Church.

Jesus also swore to His Apostles that anyone whom they call upon Him to loost from their sins, He will do so from heaven. This is present in His Church as the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus wills His Apostles to sheppard, guide and protect His flock using the ‘Keys to the Kingdom’, which is Jesus' Power to bind and loost sins, which is Church anathema and the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

One person put to physical death by American Capital Punishment, looses 20, 40, 60, or, at most, 90 years of physical life. One person put to spiritual death by the sword of Christ’s mouth, Church anathema, looses more life, (eternal life), than the combined years of physical life cut short from all the physical death Capital Punishments, wars, and pestilence, inflicted on the whole of mankind, from the beginning of time. In other words, Church Anathema Capital Punishment, which is Jesus’ lips binding a sinner or sinners to their sins, is an infinitely deadlier punishment than American physical death Capital Punishment, and both physical and spiritual death Capital Punishments are deployed to protect the body of people.

So LivingWordUnity, I see it as better to start out explaining, spiritual death Church Anathema, which is clearly defined by the Church, and Jesus, and infinitly deadlier. Then go on to explain the far less deadly form of physical death Capital Punishment, which America uses to also protect the body of her people.

ANATHEMA

In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate , so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment."...

...He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.

Quoted from: New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia - Anathema
Note: All emphasis in bolding and underlining has been added. Follow New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia link for full text.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Anathema

StevenMerten · Dec 2, 2017

Hello LivingWordUnity,

What do you think of Pope St. Peter’s, with the help of the Holy Spirit, physical death capital punishment of Ananias and Sapphira?

Acts 5:1 Ananias and Sapphira.

A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount.” Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

The Blessed Mother tells us that there will be very little crime in the ‘Golden Era of Mankind’, which is to come. Jesus tells us, through St. Faustina, that He is Coming Soon, but not as Merciful Savior, but as Just Judge. Scriptures resound the Coming of Jesus and His Just Judgments upon mankind.

Apostolic Successors are already armed by Jesus with the ‘Keys to the Kingdom’, which is Jesus’ Power to bind and loost sins. Jesus tells us that we will see Him everywhere when He comes in His Power, but if any individual says that he is Jesus, they are a liar. I think Jesus will Come in His Power and Glory, through acts like the one described in Acts 5 with Ananias and Sapphira. Jesus, as King and Ruler of the world, will rule from heaven, with and through His subjects, who are Apostolic Successors, using the ‘Keys to the Kingdom’ and the help of the Holy Spirit to find truth in court hearings. Who better to give an account of the crime than the criminal himself, with the Holy Spirit listening in to verify that they are telling the truth. I do not think we will need a refrigerated trailer and multiple pallets with stacks of body bags sitting outside Church court hearings. Criminals are simply going to start testifying to the truth of their criminal actions against the innocent. Jesus is the Truth and the truth will set us free. Crime will simply almost be a thing of the past because, with the Holy Spirit working with Apostolic Successors, under Messianic Reign, in Church court hearings.

Criminals With Nowhere to Hide

Christ's horn is Christ's Power. The seven spirits of God are poured out to Christ's Church, upon Jesus enthronement as King and Ruler of the world. The Church is to use Jesus eyes and His horn (Christ's Power) to bring about Jesus' Justice in the world.

Revelation 5:6
Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain. He had seven horns and seven eyes; these are the (seven) spirits of God sent out into the whole world. He came and received the scroll from the right hand of the one who sat on the throne. When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. They sang a new hymn: “Worthy are you to receive the scroll and to break open its seals, for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation. You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on earth.”

Can you imagine a Justice system which needs no evidence nor even the physical capture of the purpatrator? God sees all. Night or day there is nowhere for purpatrators of crimes to hide from the eyes of God. Jesus is enthroned as Ruler of the world at Armageddon. At Armageddon auto-anathemas are enacted which search out and destroy all unrepentant evildoers in the world. Any guilty purpatrator must now come to the prosecuting attorney and Church leaders, if they want to go to heaven. Through the sacrament of Reconciliation, the guilty can rise back to life from strikes from the sword of Christ's mouth, anathema. Right after they confess their crimes to secular courts, this can be done for them. Christ's great Guardian Angels of the Apocalypse will police, patrol and protect the whole world. One cannot beat this for Law Enforcement, keeping the Peace and protection of the innocent. Even those enforcing Christ's Law will have auto-anathemas insuring that they act justly.

Revelation 4:1
After this I had a vision of an open door to heaven, and I heard the trumpetlike voice that had spoken to me before, saying, “Come up here and I will show you what must happen afterwards.” At once I was caught up in spirit. A throne was there in heaven, and on the throne sat one whose appearance sparkled like jasper and carnelian. Around the throne was a halo as brilliant as an emerald.

Revelation 22:16
"It is I, Jesus, who have sent my angel to give you this testimony about the churches. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the Morning Star shining bright."

REV 4 Continued: Surrounding the throne I saw twenty-four other thrones on which twenty-four elders sat, dressed in white garments and with gold crowns on their heads. From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder. Seven flaming torches burned in front of the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.

Revelation 2:26
“To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed, just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.

REV 4 Continued: In front of the throne was something that resembled a sea of glass like crystal. In the center and around the throne, there were four living creatures covered with eyes in front and in back. The first creature resembled a lion, the second was like a calf, the third had a face like that of a human being, and the fourth looked like an eagle in flight. The four living creatures, each of them with six wings, were covered with eyes inside and out. Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.” Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to the one who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before the one who sits on the throne and worship him, who lives forever and ever. They throw down their crowns before the throne, exclaiming: “Worthy are you, Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things; because of your will they came to be and were created.”

Revelation 2:18
“To the angel of the church in Thyatira, write this: ” ‘The Son of God, whose eyes are like a fiery flame and whose feet are like polished brass, says this: “I know your works, your love, faith, service, and endurance, and that your last works are greater than the first. Yet I hold this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, who teaches and misleads my servants to play the harlot and to eat food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her harlotry. So I will cast her on a sickbed and plunge those who commit adultery with her into intense suffering unless they repent of her works. I will also put her children to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds and that I will give each of you what your works deserve. But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not uphold this teaching and know nothing of the so-called deep secrets of Satan: on you I will place no further burden, except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come. ” ’“To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed, just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.

Revelation 5:5
One of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. The lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has triumphed, enabling him to open the scroll with its seven seals.” Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain. He had seven horns and seven eyes; these are the (seven) spirits of God sent out into the whole world.

Hosea 11:10
They shall follow the LORD, who roars like a lion; When he roars, his sons shall come frightened from the west, Out of Egypt they shall come trembling, like sparrows, from the land of Assyria, like doves; And I will resettle them in their homes, says the LORD.

Revelation 6:10
They cried out in a loud voice, “How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

Quoted from: Messianic Reign; Jesus Will Rule the World Through Judgements. Messianic Reign; Jesus Will Rule The World Through Judgements

LivingWordUnity · Dec 2, 2017

I don't think that the death of Ananias and Sapphira is the same as capital punishment since God was the one who took their lives. Their blood wasn't shed by men. But a defense of capital punishment can be made by referencing St. Luke (emphasis added):

"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, 'Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!' But the other rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.' And he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power.' And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.'" - Luke 23:39-43

StevenMerten · Dec 3, 2017

LivingWordUnity said:
I don't think that the death of Ananias and Sapphira is the same as capital punishment since God was the one who took their lives. Their blood wasn't shed by men. But a defense of capital punishment can be made by referencing St. Luke (emphasis added):

"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, 'Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!' But the other rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.' And he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power.' And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.'" - Luke 23:39-43

Genisis 9:6
"If anyone sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; For in the image of God has man been made."

Hello LivingWordUnity,
To obey God is to love God and fellow man. God wills us to use Capital Punishment to protect the body of people from evildoers. You seem to be indicating that we would somehow be sinning if we use capital punishment to protect the body of people, and that we should leave the killing, of those who threaten the body of people, up to God. God commands us to put to death evildoers to protect ourselves. We can easily be sinning against the will of God by not killing evildoers to protect the body of people, out of love for the body of people.

Leviticus 20:1
The LORD said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel, who gives any of his offspring to Molech shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him. I myself will turn against such a man and cut him off from the body of his people; for in giving his offspring to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. .'"

Numbers 15:30
"But anyone who sins defiantly, whether he be a native or and alien, insults the LORD, and shall be cut off from among his people. Since he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken his commandment, he must be cut off. He has only himself to blame."

The Sabbath-breaker. While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Matthew 18:5
"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.

LivingWordUnity · Dec 3, 2017

StevenMerten said:
You seem to be indicating that we would be somehow sinning if we use capital punishment and that we should leave the killing up to God.

You misread what I typed. The example you gave of Ananias and Sapphira isn't an example of capital punishment. Therefore, it can't be used in defense of capital punishment. So I pointed to Luke 23:39-43 instead as an example where a defense of capital punishment actually can be made.

StevenMerten · Dec 3, 2017

Hello LivingWordUnity,

Are you saying that Pope St. Peter had no involvement with the Holy Spirit in the Capital Punishment of Ananias and Sapphira? I think to say such a thing is like saying that the Pharisees were not involved with the Romans in the crucifixion of Jesus.

When Sapphira entered the court room, St. Peter could have easily excused himself to the restroom while he had someone explain to Sapphira what had just happened to her husband. Sapphira would have highly likely changed her story to one of repentance, and thus saved her life, had St. Peter done so.

Or, are you saying that lying to the Holy Spirit, and cheating on your tithing, is not a crime like those who break Roman State, man made, laws?

The Acts of the Apostles 5:1 Ananias and Sapphira.

A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount.” Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

LivingWordUnity · Dec 3, 2017

Ananias and Sapphira were not put to death by men.

All St. Peter did was announce that they were going to die.

That's not the same as if they were put to death by the hands of men.

StevenMerten · Dec 3, 2017

LivingWordUnity said:
Ananias and Sapphira were not put to death by men.

All St. Peter did was announce that they were going to die.

That's not the same as if they were put to death by the hands of men.

Let us talk about the huge double standard between Popes and Civil Rulers when it comes to killing individuals for the protection of the body of people.

A Catholic on CF was telling me how, when a Pope enacts an anathema on someone, it is the anathematized person who is committing spiritual death suicide, not the Pope putting him to spiritual death. Yet when a civil judge sentences a criminal to physical death capital punishment, then pacifist Catholic leaders say that the state is killing the man. Some pacifist Catholic leaders might go as far as calling state sentences of capital punishment, ‘murder’. Would you say that this huge double standard between Church and State exists, in the Church?

Virgil the Roman · Dec 14, 2017

The Church has already pronounced upon this in her universal catechism for the entire Church of God, The Roman Catechism, wherein the Holy Ghost by the hand of the Church has said as follows:

Execution Of Criminals
"Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they punish the guilty and protect the innocent. The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence. Hence these words of David: 'In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land, that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord.'"
(Source: THE CATECHISM OF TRENT: The Fifth Commandment )

Simon_Templar · Dec 18, 2017

Church teaching on the death penalty has to be understood on two levels. One is the moral / objective level and one is the practical / subjective level.

On the moral / objective level you have the question, is Capital punishment inherently immoral, or moral? Is it ever permissible? is it mandated? or is it permissible but needing prudence in it's application?

The clear and undeniable answer of both Scripture and the Church on this level is that the death penalty is NOT inherently, objectively immoral. It is a legitimate authority that is permissible. However it is not always prudent or desirable. That's where the second level comes in.

The practical, subjective level might also be called the level of circumstance of prudence. On this level we have decided that capital punishment is morally permissible, but not always prudent. Now we must discuss what prudence and charity dictate.

The Church's teaching here is that Capital Punishment is a last resort for the protection of the innocent from the predation and violence of the wicked.

Yes, traditional Church teaching on capital punishment is definitive

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

Well-Known Member

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

Well-Known Member

I Love You, God!

I Love You, God!

I Love You, God!

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

I Love You, God!

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

I Love You, God!

Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

I Love You, God!

Young Fogey & Monarchist-Distributist . . .

Not all who wander are lost

Similar threads