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Just out of curiosity, who are you responding to; and what is your point?
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John 14:15 If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments: -- so says Christ
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Just out of curiosity, who are you responding to; and what is your point?
yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Good curiosity this time.
That was as noted in the first word just a footnote; perhaps with followup if it turns out to be requested and moreso if it turns out to be more pertinent here.
It happens to be often never taught, btw. (and rejected by other religions or perspectives).
i.e. (HEY! look at the [thread] title! (just noticed) ) Those who do not believe God's Word is Truth rejected this long ago (many centuries ago), and will continue to reject this until Yeshua Messiah Returns.
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Neal of Zebulun
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@yeshuaslavejeff
My question you originally responded to was directed at someone who believes that she has the Law written in her heart, and that the Law written in the OT is unneeded.
She asked a very tough question about first cousins being damned or not, which I do not believe she intended for me to answer so directly, but I did anyway because I have read the Law regarding the subject and Yahweh has written it in my heart.
But if she really has the Law written on her heart, she can answer my last question with a yes or no.
My question you originally responded to was directed at someone who believes that she has the Law written in her heart, and that the Law written in the OT is unneeded.
She asked a very tough question about first cousins being damned or not, which I do not believe she intended for me to answer so directly, but I did anyway because I have read the Law regarding the subject and Yahweh has written it in my heart.
But if she really has the Law written on her heart, she can answer my last question with a yes or no.
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The verse right before that one is even more curious:
(CLV) Lk 7:28
"For verily I am saying to you, A greater prophet, among those born of women, than John the baptist, there is not one. Yet the smaller, in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
It supports my feelings that we continue to grow closer to YHWH when we enter his Kingdom.
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Didn't YHWH say that he would write his laws on the hearts of the House of Israel? I suspect that YHWH's laws are written on the hearts of those who seek him out in faith. Whether or not they pay attention to them (him) is another matter.
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Neal of Zebulun
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It disturbs me that someone will claim the Law is on their heart and then go around teaching that we shouldn't keep it, and even try to entrap someone who's trying.
Thank Yahweh that no man or woman can snatch His elect out of His hand, amen. (John 10:27-30)
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Whether that may or may not happen is not clear now, here,
but
remember that the religious leaders once (and today?) "had the keys to enter the kingdom of God" and would NOT enter in themselves(they refused), and they did all they could to PREVENT the little ones from finding God's Kingdom! Woe to them who cause even one little one to stumble!
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Amen
by Rav Sha'ul
Q: "Is Amen' the name of a pagan idol? Should we refrain from using this word in our prayers and in worship?"
Answer:
Let us consider this word on the following levels:
- Its pagan connotations
- Its use and meaning in Hebrew
- Its use in Christianity and Judaism
- Should we use it or not?
'Amen' was one of the main deities in Egyptian mythology, the worship of which spread to Greece, Syria and surroundings.
According to 'The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia', Columbia University Press. Copyright © 1991 by Columbia University Press:
Amon (â´men, ä´-) or Ammon (à´men) or Amen (ä´mèn), ancient Egyptian deity. Originally the chief god of Thebes, Amon grew increasingly important in Egypt, and eventually, as Amon Ra, he was identified with RA as the supreme deity. He was also identified with the Greek ZEUS (the Roman JUPITER). (Ed.: Jupiter or 'Zues-Pater' - 'Zeus our father').
The Official Internet Site of The Egyptian Ministry of Tourism
has the following Web Pages with information about Amen, the primeval idol:
Amen (Amon) and Amen-Ra, King of the Gods, and the Triad of Thebes
Amen worship
Amen of Thebes
Forms of Amen-Ra
Here are some excerpts from these informative pages.
"Amen was the personification of the hidden and unknown creative power which was associated with the primeval abyss, gods in the creation of the world, and all that is in it. The word or root amen, certainly means "what is hidden," "what is not seen," "what cannot be seen," and the like, and this fact is proved by scores of examples which may be collected from texts of all periods. In hymns to Amen we often read that he is "hidden to his children, "and "hidden to gods and men" ... Now, not only is the god himself said to be "hidden," but his name also is "hidden," and his form, or similitude, is said to be "unknown;" these statements show that "hidden," when applied to Amen, the great god, has reference to something more than the "sun which has disappeared below the horizon," and that it indicates the god who cannot be seen with the mortal eyes, and who is invisible, as well as inscrutable, to gods as well as men."
Amen, his wife, Mut, and their son, Khonsu, represented the Theban Triad, the sacred family of Thebes. Amen was the "King of the gods" during the period of the New Kingdom in Egypt 1550-1070 B.C.E. when Thebes was the capitol of Egypt. (refer http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/EGYPT/NEW.HTM
Magasiner | Musée canadien de l'histoire
It is during this period that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, building the fortifications and lavish statues and temples of Egypt. During their 400 years of slavery, they lost their patriarchal Yahwistic religion as they fell into Egyptian paganism. Their epic exodus required a 40 year 'cleansing' period in the Wilderness, before they could enter the 'Promised Land of Israel'.
If during this exodus they could build a golden calf idol, would it be far-fetched to surmise that they also carried the blemishes of Amen-worship with them into the future - a seed which may not have been uprooted to this day?
Which brings us to our 2nd point of consideration: The word 'amen' is popularly used in Hebrew liturgy and Jewish worship.
True, the root-letters a-m-n hold the following connotations in modern Hebrew:
educate, train, true, trustworthy, confirm, confidence, faithfulness, treaty.
Thirdly, its use in modern day Judaism and Christianity:
The meaning for the word 'amen' is given as "so be it", "trustworthy"
Knowing the pagan idol worship connotations of this word, it does raise concern when one hears those phrases which are so popularly used in Christian prayer:
"We ask this in Thy Name, Amen".
"We praise Thy Name, Amen."
"We ask this in the Name which is above every Name, Amen".
"Praise the Lord" - with the communal response: "Amen".
These above applications surely can pass for directly addressing someone named 'Amen'! It should surely be conspicuous to the alert worshipper of the One True God of Israel!
Similar usage is also common in Jewish worship liturgy.
Should we use it in prayer and worship?
The position assumed in all the Restorative Truths proclaimed by BIBLE REVELATIONS, is to avoid extremism. This position is also maintained in our study on the use of 'God or Elohim' and the use of the various forms of The Sacred Name.
Like with all other considerations in the process of the Restoration of the Original True Hebraic Faith though, the question remains: "What does the Almighty expect from us?" Our intentions may be pure, but why persist in clinging to habits and traditions which have spurious origins or connotations? Do we really need this word to express our convictions and praises?
It also is curious, that this almost mystical word, anciently referred to the "hidden god" - and it would surely not be far-fetched to surmise that perhaps Satan has managed to hide himself as the object of worship, to unsuspecting believer to this day?
Could this realisation and avoidance oof such spurious terms lead us further from the Truth or closer to it?
Is this not after all the purpose of true and pure worship, that we become aware of the traits and methods of the Deceiver and refine and purify our worship as far as is humanly possible? What are we defending by hedging against doubtful practices? There are, after all, 'pure' words like "HalleluYAH", or where necessary, the Sacred Name itself, which can replace this questionable praise word 'Amen',
Ex. 23:13:"...and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of your mouth."
Hosea 2:17,19 "I (YHVH) will take the names of the Baals (lords) off her (His Bride's) lips".
Amen
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Oh God ! Not that argument ?! (which God ? ) (there are many)
Amen ! It is so! (which Amen ? ) Simple - the good Amen , not one of the bad ones.
Amen ! It is so! (which Amen ? ) Simple - the good Amen , not one of the bad ones.
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Neal of Zebulun
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Psalms 106:
48 Blessed be Yahweh God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye Yah.
בָּר֤וּךְ־יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהֵ֪י יִשְׂרָאֵ֡ל מִן־הָ֤עוֹלָ֨ם ׀ וְעַ֬ד הָעוֹלָ֗ם וְאָמַ֖ר כָּל־הָעָ֥ם אָמֵ֗ן הַֽלְלוּ־יָֽהּ׃
"amen, hallelu-Yah"
John 1:
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
και λεγει αυτω αμην αμην λεγω υμιν απ αρτι οψεσθε τον ουρανον ανεωγοτα και τους αγγελους του θεου αναβαινοντας και καταβαινοντας επι τον υιον του ανθρωπου
"amen, amen"
"Amen" essentially means "truth." I can give you more verses if you like, but I've got to go to sleep! Goodnight!
And praise Yahweh!
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Is the evidence everyone but the houses of Israel excluded? Not according to the historical evidence of the NT.
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What bothers me to no end is those who claim the covenant made with Israel is written on our heart. It's just not supportable with Scripture even if the NT is eliminated.
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In current usage, the term "amen" has become little more than a ritualized conclusion to prayers. Yet the Hebrew and Greek words for amen appear hundreds of times in the Bible and have several uses. Amen is a transliteration of the Hebrew word amen [em'a]. The verb form occurs more than one hundred times in the Old Testament and means to take care, to be faithful, reliable or established, or to believe someone or something. The idea of something that is faithful, reliable, or believable seems to lie behind the use of amen as an exclamation on twenty-five solemn occasions in the Old Testament. Israel said "amen" to join in the praises of God ( 1 Chron 16:36 ; Neh 8:6 ; and at the end of each of the first four books of Psalms, 41:13 ; 72:19 ; 89:52 ; 106:48 ).
Amen is never used solely to confirm a blessing in the Old Testament, but Israel did accept the curse of God on sin by it (twelve times in Deut. 27, and in Neh 5:13 ), and once Jeremiah affirms God's statements of the blessings and the curses of the covenant with an amen ( Jer 11:5 ). It can also confirm a statement made by people ( Num 5:22 ; 1 Kings 1:36 ; Neh 5:13 ). These kinds of uses lie behind the popular, basically correct, dictum that amen means "So be it."
Amen has other uses. Jeremiah mocks the words of a false prophet with an amen (28:6). Because God is trustworthy, Isaiah can call him "the God of amen, " in whose name his servants should invoke blessings and take oaths ( Isa 65:16 ; see also Rev 3:14 ). But Jesus' use of amen is the most striking innovation.
Jesus introduces his teaching by saying amen lego humin [ajmhvnlevgwuJmi'n], that is, "truly I say to you, " on nearly seventy occasions in the Gospels (thirty times in Matthew, thirteen in Mark, six in Luke, and twenty in John, where the amen is always doubled). Where the prophets often said, "Thus says the Lord, " Jesus often says, "Amen I say to you." Although some scholars see the formuLam merely as a method of giving emphasis to a statement, in actuality it constitutes a significant part of Jesus' implicit teaching about himself. We ought to consider Jesus' use of the term "amen" alongside his other implicit claims to deity, such as his claim of the right to forgive sins and to judge humankind, and his custom of performing miracles on his own authority. No mere human has the right to forgive sins, yet Jesus forgave sins. God is the judge of humankind, yet Jesus judges. God's agets ascribe the will and the glory to God when they perform miracles, yet Jesus performed miracles on his own authority. Likewise, prophets never spoke on their own authority. They say, "Thus says the Lord." Or, like Paul, they say they received a revelation from heaven. But Jesus says, "Truly I say to you" dozens of times, asserting that his words are certainly true because he says them.
Jesus often uses the formuLam when he corrects errors or is engaged in disputes. When Jesus instructed Nicodemus, for example, he appealed not to Scripture but to his own authority, saying "Amen, amen, I say to you" (John 3:3, 5; see also Matt 6:2, 5, 16; 18:3; Luke 13:35; John 5:19, 24, 25; 6:26, 32, 47, 53). Amen lego humin also punctuates the teaching of truths unknown in the Old Testament, and seasons startling sayings for which Jesus offers no proof other than his own authority. Here the amen implies that Jesus' words, like the Father's, are true merely because he utters them (Matt 24:34; 26:13; Mark 3:28; Luke 12:37; John 10:1). So in Matthew 5 Jesus comments on the Old Testament or Jewish interpretations of it six times in the chapter, saying, "You have heard that it was said , but I tell you." He concludes the first section with the amen in 5:26, and by so doing asserts that his authority exceeds the Jewish interpreters', and even brings a revelation that surpasses that of the Old Testament law itself.
In this way, whenever Jesus says "amen lego humin" [ajmhvnlevgwuJmi'n], he shows awareness of his authority, his deity. This evidence of Jesus' messianic self-consciousness is important because it resists skeptical attacks on the faith. Critics try to exclude many texts that present Christ's deity on the grounds that they are unauthentic. But implicit claims to deity, whether they be Jesus' use of the amen or other ones, appear in virtually every paragraph of the Gospels, and cannot be explained away.
Paul's use of amen returns to the Old Testament world, except that he utters amen only to bless, not to curse. Many times Paul's letters burst into praise of God the Father or God the Son and seal the confession with the amen (Rom 1:25; 9:5; 11:36; Gal 1:3-5; Eph 3:21; Php 4:20; 1 Tim 1:17; 6:16; 2 Tim 4:18). A doxology appears at or near the end of several letters, and all close with the amen. Other letters end with a blessing on his readers, again completed with amen (1 Col 16:23-24; Gal 6:18). Paul also invites his readers to say amen to the promises of God (2 Col 1:20; see also Rev 22:20). Amen also closes spontaneous doxologies in Revelation; there, however, the object of praise is more often the Son than the Father (1:6-7; 5:14; 7:12; 19:4). In all this Paul and Revelation resemble the Jewish custom of the day, in which Jews said amen when they heard another bless the Lord whether in private prayer (Tobit 8:8) or in worship. But they surpass it in the sheer spontaneity and enthusiasm of their praises.
Several other New Testament epistles follow Paul by praising God and/or calling on him to bestow the grace the readers need (Heb 13:20-21; 1 Pet 4:11; 5:10-11; 2 Pet 3:17-18; Jude 24-25; Rev 22:21). As in Paul, these final words often recapitulate the main themes of the letter, which the writer seals with the amen that both declare and pleads, "So be it! May God indeed be praised for bestowing the gifts his people need."
This is c&p from biblegateway
Amen is never used solely to confirm a blessing in the Old Testament, but Israel did accept the curse of God on sin by it (twelve times in Deut. 27, and in Neh 5:13 ), and once Jeremiah affirms God's statements of the blessings and the curses of the covenant with an amen ( Jer 11:5 ). It can also confirm a statement made by people ( Num 5:22 ; 1 Kings 1:36 ; Neh 5:13 ). These kinds of uses lie behind the popular, basically correct, dictum that amen means "So be it."
Amen has other uses. Jeremiah mocks the words of a false prophet with an amen (28:6). Because God is trustworthy, Isaiah can call him "the God of amen, " in whose name his servants should invoke blessings and take oaths ( Isa 65:16 ; see also Rev 3:14 ). But Jesus' use of amen is the most striking innovation.
Jesus introduces his teaching by saying amen lego humin [ajmhvnlevgwuJmi'n], that is, "truly I say to you, " on nearly seventy occasions in the Gospels (thirty times in Matthew, thirteen in Mark, six in Luke, and twenty in John, where the amen is always doubled). Where the prophets often said, "Thus says the Lord, " Jesus often says, "Amen I say to you." Although some scholars see the formuLam merely as a method of giving emphasis to a statement, in actuality it constitutes a significant part of Jesus' implicit teaching about himself. We ought to consider Jesus' use of the term "amen" alongside his other implicit claims to deity, such as his claim of the right to forgive sins and to judge humankind, and his custom of performing miracles on his own authority. No mere human has the right to forgive sins, yet Jesus forgave sins. God is the judge of humankind, yet Jesus judges. God's agets ascribe the will and the glory to God when they perform miracles, yet Jesus performed miracles on his own authority. Likewise, prophets never spoke on their own authority. They say, "Thus says the Lord." Or, like Paul, they say they received a revelation from heaven. But Jesus says, "Truly I say to you" dozens of times, asserting that his words are certainly true because he says them.
Jesus often uses the formuLam when he corrects errors or is engaged in disputes. When Jesus instructed Nicodemus, for example, he appealed not to Scripture but to his own authority, saying "Amen, amen, I say to you" (John 3:3, 5; see also Matt 6:2, 5, 16; 18:3; Luke 13:35; John 5:19, 24, 25; 6:26, 32, 47, 53). Amen lego humin also punctuates the teaching of truths unknown in the Old Testament, and seasons startling sayings for which Jesus offers no proof other than his own authority. Here the amen implies that Jesus' words, like the Father's, are true merely because he utters them (Matt 24:34; 26:13; Mark 3:28; Luke 12:37; John 10:1). So in Matthew 5 Jesus comments on the Old Testament or Jewish interpretations of it six times in the chapter, saying, "You have heard that it was said , but I tell you." He concludes the first section with the amen in 5:26, and by so doing asserts that his authority exceeds the Jewish interpreters', and even brings a revelation that surpasses that of the Old Testament law itself.
In this way, whenever Jesus says "amen lego humin" [ajmhvnlevgwuJmi'n], he shows awareness of his authority, his deity. This evidence of Jesus' messianic self-consciousness is important because it resists skeptical attacks on the faith. Critics try to exclude many texts that present Christ's deity on the grounds that they are unauthentic. But implicit claims to deity, whether they be Jesus' use of the amen or other ones, appear in virtually every paragraph of the Gospels, and cannot be explained away.
Paul's use of amen returns to the Old Testament world, except that he utters amen only to bless, not to curse. Many times Paul's letters burst into praise of God the Father or God the Son and seal the confession with the amen (Rom 1:25; 9:5; 11:36; Gal 1:3-5; Eph 3:21; Php 4:20; 1 Tim 1:17; 6:16; 2 Tim 4:18). A doxology appears at or near the end of several letters, and all close with the amen. Other letters end with a blessing on his readers, again completed with amen (1 Col 16:23-24; Gal 6:18). Paul also invites his readers to say amen to the promises of God (2 Col 1:20; see also Rev 22:20). Amen also closes spontaneous doxologies in Revelation; there, however, the object of praise is more often the Son than the Father (1:6-7; 5:14; 7:12; 19:4). In all this Paul and Revelation resemble the Jewish custom of the day, in which Jews said amen when they heard another bless the Lord whether in private prayer (Tobit 8:8) or in worship. But they surpass it in the sheer spontaneity and enthusiasm of their praises.
Several other New Testament epistles follow Paul by praising God and/or calling on him to bestow the grace the readers need (Heb 13:20-21; 1 Pet 4:11; 5:10-11; 2 Pet 3:17-18; Jude 24-25; Rev 22:21). As in Paul, these final words often recapitulate the main themes of the letter, which the writer seals with the amen that both declare and pleads, "So be it! May God indeed be praised for bestowing the gifts his people need."
This is c&p from biblegateway
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Romans 9:6-8 “Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
The Abrahamic covenant is still in effect. If you are not the physical seed of Abraham; you can still marry into the family through the Yahshuaic Covenent.....
Galatians 3:28-29 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
......But if you are the bride of Yahshua; you must walk in the Mosaic Covenant; as Yahshua
did.
Ezekiel 36:26-27 “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Maybe.
Little children today have no idea about covenants.
I had no idea at all about any covenant when Yahweh drew me to Himself (decades ago).
He did not introduce me to any covenant that I remember, per se.
Only to Yeshua (Jesus at the time in my life).
Without Yeshua, no one can be saved. This is iimportant. (most people do not know this).
With covenant, think - what is 'covenant' to most people !? < shrugs > I haven't talked to most people.
When the Father in heaven draws someone to Himself, does He draw them to a contract ? Do they think that way ? Does the Father think that way ?
I don't know anyone who is abiding in Yeshua, in union with Him, who thinks that way (so far as I know anyway - they don't talk about this).....
It is rare enough to find anyone devoted to God in truth and in life, walking with Jesus (Yeshua), abiding in Him and always obeying Him willingly and full of peace, joy and righteousness daily, healing those they come in touch with who love God and are called according to His Purpose. (those who do not love God are not healed, of course, as written, and are destined for destruction, not for eternal life) ....
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Almost there
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Marriage is a contract. Do you believe that you can be breaking that contract, while remaining the bride of Yahshua?
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