Communism, socialism, capitalism, and human dignity.

The Old Testament Jewish economy is like socialist/capitalist hybrid. In most times, it operates in capitalist mode. But periodically, the wealth is redistributed.

Obvious advantages is helping the poor and avoiding extremely uneven distribution of wealth (a condition that often leads to corruption and failure of state, which is very apparent in democractic 3rd world countries).

@ gingerbeer......Which "Church" has done that? [EDIT] Is the Catholic Church the authority for that?

Our "economic" view is to the Christian Bible. From the latter we embrace what God has done for us.

GingerBeer said:

Ought Christians to have a view on economic systems in the world and if so what is the foundation upon which they ought to be built?

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"Then Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who were selling and buying in the Temple, and He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, 'It is written, "My house shall be called a house of prayer"; but you are make it a den of thieves!'" - Matthew 21:12-13

The role of the money changer was to literally exchange currency, to take the Roman coin and exchange it for Temple coin; the exchange rate was hardly fair. Further, there were those who were selling animals for use in the Temple which could only be purchased with Temple coin, and it was the only way most people could get a suitable animal for sacrifice. What was going on amounted to extortion, and it was the poor who suffered for it. The purpose of the Temple was as a house of worship where God's people could go and do the things commanded of them by God's Law--but there was a corrupt system in place that ripped off the people, so that doing what was their obligation became a crippling extortion scheme.

And it doesn't take much reading of the Bible to see that of chief concern to God is the just treatment of the poor, hungry, and the needy. Any economic system that cripples and hurts "the least of these" is an unjust system and evil system. Jesus' act of civil disobedience disrupted an evil economic system, at least temporarily; which isn't to say that the Christian should do the exact same in every context and circumstance--but it does provide a starting point for conversation for how the Christian ought to respond to economic injustice.

-CryptoLutheran

Out of the three listed, I have found capitalism to be the system that best respects human dignity and that has done the most to raise the standard of living for poor people. It's a system that does not inherently hinder Christianity, but rather it can empower Christians to do more good for their families and neighbors if we make the right choices.

GingerBeer said:

How is Francis' past as a Jesuit related to the original post?

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The Jesuits had secretly prepared World War II, and Hitler's war machine was built and financed by the Vatican to conquer the world for Roman Catholicism, Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were to be the defenders of the faith. They were set up to win and conquer the world, and set up a millennium for the pope. Behind the scenes, the Jesuits controlled the Gestapo. https://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_03.asp

At the outbreak of World War II, the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) had some 1700 members in the German Reich, divided into three provinces: Eastern, Lower and Upper Germany. Nazi leaders had some admiration for the discipline of the Jesuit order, but opposed its principles. Of the 152 Jesuits murdered by the Nazis across Europe, 27 died in captivity or its results, and 43 in the concentration camps.[1] wiki


Some Jesuits supported the Nazis, certainly at first. (As did most of socialist Germany?) Yes, they suffered immensely for hiding Hebrew children especially. But Jesuits supported the idea of communism/socialism at it's core.

GingerBeer said:

You are right yet in a nation with many Christians ought not care for the poor, hungry, and the needy be a governmental priority as well as a personal priority?

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I think as a Christian I should seek what is best for my neighbor--and that means, if it is possible, seek changes in the government which benefit my neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

GingerBeer said:

I found this paragraph in the Catholic catechism; it's interesting but I don't see a definition of communism, capitalism, and socialism. Ought Christians to have a view on economic systems in the world and if so what is the foundation upon which they ought to be built?

CCC 2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practise of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labour. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market." Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

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I think that the reason that the different economic systems are capitalized in the passage is to highlight that this is not a condemnation of the principles behind the economic system; but in the examples that we have in the world today. A good example of this is the odd paradox of communism, which should favor power for the working classes, with totalitarian communist regimes, where the power is centralized in a few people, who are not of the working class.

Capitalism perverts the will of individuals by equating one dollar per vote. So power is amassed by the wealthy and control flows along with the wealth. We can try to put capitalism on a pedestal; but it is a system which is so human value neutral that it could be used to justify slavery.

People should stop thinking about if as if its a binary decision. It's not. The vast majority of the world's political systems have been mixed economies -- an economy with a capitalist skeleton combined with taxation to provide services to everyone. It's just that some countries have higher taxes and some don't.