It was God's Will and purpose that Adam would sin.

RDKirk

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I think we can understand but we must seek ask and knock and press towards that mark of the high callings of Christ Jesus. Adam had no freewill in this it was God's will. No where in the Bible is the word freewill used except the freewill offering in the Old Testament and it has nothing to do with Adam or man's salvation. Freewill is a religious word.

Scripturally, there is no "free will." Free will is a pagan philosophical concept predating Christ. Augustine and Aquinas revived the concept in a very peculiar context and narrow Christian usage to debate the idea that Christianity is "deterministic." What they call "free will" is really "limited choice," not "free will" as secularly defined and understood.

Scripture states that men are either slaves to sin or slaves to God, but ultimately always slaves to something--so there is no "free will." We only have the single choice of whose slave we will be--and that choice only by God's grace.

I believe that God intended all along for the redeemed to gain "knowledge of good and evil" in order to eventually judge (lead) angels. But He also knew that gaining the knowledge sufficient to all the redeemed over the ages to last for all eternity would be a long and painful lesson, as seen from our current temporal viewpoint.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Being the god of the earth does not make him the God of the earth.
So many people believe Satan is the god of the earth and He is. But God is God of all the earth big “G”. There are plenty more scriptures; I stopped at Psalm 90; but there is no doubt that the earth is God earth



Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD


1 Chronicles 29:11
Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.


Psalm 2:7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalm 24: 1The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.


Psalm 47:2
For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.


Psalm 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. 8God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
Psalm 48: 1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge

Psalm 72: 8He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth

Psalm 72:19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

Psalm 74: 16The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Psalm 78: 68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 82: 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalm 89: 11The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Psalm 90: 1Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.








 
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ToBeLoved

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Being the god of the earth does not make him the God of the earth.
You said Satan can do nothing God does not let him do. My point is that God let him have power and tells us that by calling him the god of this earth.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So many people believe Satan is the god of the earth and He is. But God is God of all the earth big “G”. There are plenty more scriptures; I stopped at Psalm 90; but there is no doubt that the earth is God earth



Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD


1 Chronicles 29:11
Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.


Psalm 2:7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalm 24: 1The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.


Psalm 47:2
For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.


Psalm 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. 8God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
Psalm 48: 1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge

Psalm 72: 8He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth

Psalm 72:19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

Psalm 74: 16The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Psalm 78: 68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 82: 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalm 89: 11The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Psalm 90: 1Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.




I didn't say satan is a god with a big "G".

that is your presumption
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Scripturally, there is no "free will." Free will is a pagan philosophical concept predating Christ. Augustine and Aquinas revived the concept in a very peculiar context and narrow Christian usage to debate the idea that Christianity is "deterministic." What they call "free will" is really "limited choice," not "free will" as secularly defined and understood.

Scripture states that men are either slaves to sin or slaves to God, but ultimately always slaves to something--so there is no "free will." We only have the single choice of whose slave we will be--and that choice only by God's grace.

I believe that God intended all along for the redeemed to gain "knowledge of good and evil" in order to eventually judge (lead) angels. But He also knew that gaining the knowledge sufficient to all the redeemed over the ages to last for all eternity would be a long and painful lesson, as seen from our current temporal viewpoint.
God is not calling the whole world now. We are all slaves to sin tell god calls us.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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I didn't say satan is a god with a big "G".

that is your presumption
I understand but yes Satan is the god of the earth but at the same time God is God of all things and Satan has no power other than what god ordains.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I understand but yes Satan is the god of the earth but at the same time God is God of all things and Satan has no power other than what god ordains.
will you answer the question about Adam and Eve being created perfect if God willed for them to sin?
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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will you answer the question about Adam and Eve being created perfect if God willed for them to sin?
I did. Let me use an example. In times pass certain nations had rulers who were very young an immature who ruled great nation and had great powers. I believe in the ages to come God is using this world of sin and death to mature His overcomers rule and reign with Him in his kingdom. There are many scriptures that support this one being.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I did. Let me use an example. In times pass certain nations had rulers who were very young an immature who ruled great nation and had great powers. I believe in the ages to come God is using this world of sin and death to mature His overcomers rule and reign with Him in his kingdom. There are many scriptures that support this one being.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
I still don't understand why God created a perfect man and woman with no sin and let them commune with Him in the garden, if God willed that they would sin and that sin would befall mankind and God did that on purpose.

But nevermind, I guess.
 
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I see God as sovereign of all things and the idea that little Adam could cause all mankind for hundreds of generation fall under the curse of sin and death. Without God's total purpose a major part of it makes God in not control of all things? Before there was a sinner there was a savior for the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth.

It was God’s choose Adam to sin because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eves sin; then He is not all knowing. It was God lowered Adam from a spirit to a loving soul, a dust man. It was God who made Adam and Eve innocent; they did not do it them selves. It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden. It was God who put the devil, a man slayer, a murderer, a liar in the garden; God totally knew what he was doing with Adam and Eve.

Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse.
I believe that God put Adam in the garden knowing full well what would happen. And the hint of that being correct is in Romans 9:17.
 
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Please answer my question.

Why were Adam and Eve created perfect by God if that was His Will for them? It makes no sense.
It makes no sense to my dog that I leave every work day and come back in the evening. But I have a purpose of which he is not aware.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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I still don't understand why God created a perfect man and woman with no sin and let them commune with Him in the garden, if God willed that they would sin and that sin would befall mankind and God did that on purpose.

But nevermind, I guess.
This cannot be answer in a few line but it is a very important question. God does not look at this temporary realm the way we go it is but a moment in time to a God who does not dwell in time. I believe we are God sons and he desires something amazing from us and that is part of the reason we are here these short seventh or so years.

It is not a manner of if you go thought the fire, but when. It is interesting to note that the Greek word for fire is PUR, a derivative of which is the Latin word PYRA (pure) and the English word PYRE - the place for the burning of a corpse. PYREX also comes from the same root, PYR or PUR, meaning a fire, and REX, meaning a king - that which is king, thus ruling over the fire, hence a "heatresistant" glassware. All our English words having to do with that which is pure are related to the Greek word PUR, indicating clearly that that which is pure is so because it has been cleansed BY FIRE! Consider: PURE, PURity, PURify, PURification, PURitan and yes the catholic word PURgatory.

Fire, in the scriptures, symbolized two things - judgment and cleansing. But God is not schizophrenic in His nature - one side of His character disposed to forgive, save, heal, redeem, deliver and restore, while another part of His nature is bent on vengeful destruction and the sadistic torture of His enemies. His action in fire, as His action in grace, is pure, harmonious, and balanced, directed towards the purging that will lead to restoration.

His fire cleanses the believer that he may qualify for God's highest.

His action of fire towards the unbeliever is to the same end, conditioning and preparing that one for good results, when, having been broken and purged from pride and rebellion, he bows low before the Saviour, penitently receiving the gracious gift of life. The fire does not save him, but it removes the hindrance that separates him from the kind mercy of the Lord.

That the coming of the Lord as refining fire does not relate to His coming in the flesh two thousand years ago is clearly seen by the fact that there was no purifying of the priesthood then, and the term "the sons of Levi" cannot refer to the old Levitical priesthood but to the new order of the Melchizedekian priesthood, for the old Aaronic priesthood has passed away and the new order has come into being, the order of Melchizedek.

The Lord has nothing to do with the Levitical priesthood, for He was not of the tribe of Levi but of the tribe of Judah. He couldn't be a priest after the old order because He was not of Levi nor of the descendents of Aaron. This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews chapter seven. Malachi used this word in reference to the priesthood because there was no other order in existence then, and as the old was a type of that which was to come, the reference must be to the new order of priesthood. Christ Jesus is the High Priest of the new order, the Melchizedekian priesthood, the priesthood that is being formed now, and THIS IS THE PRIESTHOOD THAT HE CLEANSES AND PURIFIES WHEN HE RETURNS TO HIS TEMPLE.

The apostle Peter expressed the truth of it this way: "Beloved, do not be amazed and bewildered by the fiery ordeal which is taking place to test your quality, as though something strange - unusual and alien to you and your position - were befalling you" (I Pet. 4:12, Amplified). "THINK IT NOT STRANGE," the King James version says - do not be amazed and bewildered, do not be astonished, do not be alarmed as though the experience is foreign, unexpected, abnormal, a surprise. It is not an accident - it was PLANNED. It is not a surprise - it was PURPOSED.

Who may abide - endure - wait for - the day of HIS COMING? So many are content in that spiritual place where they are. The vast majority of Christians are satisfied with the forgiveness realm, the blessing realm, the gift realm where all is received by free grace through faith. Everything in those elementary realms is free! There are no conditions, no qualifications, no price - neither is there any great attainment in God. It is the realm of children, of babes in Christ. "Ask, and ye shall receive." To the spiritual children Jesus promised, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things to them that ask Him?" (Mat. 7:11). The world of children receiving gifts from their parents is a blessed world indeed!

1 Peter 1:7 (KJV) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


1 Peter 1:7 (ESV) so that(A) the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes(B) though it is tested by(C) fire—may be found to result in(D) praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


1 Peter 1:7 (WYC) that the proving of your faith be much more precious than gold, that is proved by fire; and be found into praising, and glory, and honour, in the revelation of Jesus Christ.



"He knoweth the way that I take, and when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." Job 23:10.


Isaiah. 48:10 & 11 says, "Behold I have refined thee, and I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own name's sake I will do it, for I will not have My name to be polluted." The name of God means that He will become whatever He wants to become to meet everyone's need, whenever He wants to do it. In order for us to become the expression of the name of the Lord in the earth, it is essential that we be purified from all that does not bring glory to His name. This is what the furnace of affliction will do. Affliction includes all of the adversities, hardships and trying experiences that are a part of our life. The Greek word for affliction means pressure. Paul said that we are pressed, not only from without, but from within. All of these pressures, both external and internal, are controlled by God and are urging us into Him. Paul tells us that we must through much pressure, enter the kingdom of God.

We should never view suffering in a negative way. We should always see it as a totally positive handiwork of God that will always have excellent results, without any defeat whatsoever. In all Job's suffering He did not attribute folly to God. Job 1:22. God Himself is fully responsible for all of our negative situations. The statement is true that was made by a man of God back in the eighteen hundreds: "
 
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ToBeLoved

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It makes no sense to my dog that I leave every work day and come back in the evening. But I have a purpose of which he is not aware.
I get what you are trying to say. But if God willed sin, then that changes who God is because God tells us He is perfect.
 
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I get what you are trying to say. But if God willed sin, then that changes who God is because God tells us He is perfect.
I would agree, but I don't think that is what it is saying. It is only him willing it if the person that sins does not have free choice.

And I also question this whole "sin" thing anyway. We are saved and allowed to enter eternity even though we are sinners. I mean by that that although my sin is covered by Christ's blood, it's still there in a very real way. I think there is more to this sin thing then God is letting on. And possible less, regarding how we interpret scripture discussing it. This is why I use the dog analogy.
 
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Scripturally, there is no "free will." Free will is a pagan philosophical concept predating Christ.
I disagree. John 8:58

I believe I'll have Chinese for dinner. No, wait, Mexican!
 
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Scripturally, there is no "free will." Free will is a pagan philosophical concept predating Christ. Augustine and Aquinas revived the concept in a very peculiar context and narrow Christian usage to debate the idea that Christianity is "deterministic." What they call "free will" is really "limited choice," not "free will" as secularly defined and understood.

Scripture states that men are either slaves to sin or slaves to God, but ultimately always slaves to something--so there is no "free will." We only have the single choice of whose slave we will be--and that choice only by God's grace.

I believe that God intended all along for the redeemed to gain "knowledge of good and evil" in order to eventually judge (lead) angels. But He also knew that gaining the knowledge sufficient to all the redeemed over the ages to last for all eternity would be a long and painful lesson, as seen from our current temporal viewpoint.
And now I'm going to appear to contradict my last post. I agree with most of the concept of what you are sharing. The exception is that I do believe we have free will.
 
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