Protestantism

redleghunter said:

Last time you brought up James 2 as an argument, I searched for the better part of two hours to find an ECF who opined on those verses. None exist. I wonder now why? If you can find an early church father who opined on works justify using James 2 please post here.

I do know John Chrysostom wrote quite a bit on Sola Fide. Here are his writings on the subject. I posted this on the other thread we had this discussion with no response.

From a homily by Saint Basil the Great, bishop
(Hom. 20 De humiliate, 3: PG 31, 530-531)

Boast only of the Lord

The wise man must not boast of his wisdom, nor the strong man of his strength, nor the rich man of his riches. What then is the right kind of boasting? What is the source of man’s greatness? Scripture says: The man who boasts must boast of this, that He knows and understands that I am the Lord. Here is man’s greatness, here is man’s glory and majesty: to know in truth what is great, to hold fast to it, and to seek glory from the Lord of glory. The Apostle tells us: The man who boasts must boast of the Lord. He has just said: Christ was appointed by God to be our wisdom, our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption, so that, as it is written, a man who boasts must boast of the Lord.

Boasting of God is perfect and complete when we take no pride in our own righteousness but acknowledge that we are utterly lacking in true righteousness and have been made righteous only by faith in Christ.


Monday, Week 3 - Office of Readings


Chrysostom does use 'alone' not once but twice in his homily on Acts chapter 15:

Do you mark how closely the trials succeed each other, from within, from without? It is well ordered too, that this happens when Paul is present, that he may answer them. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:2 And Paul does not say, What? Have I not a right to be believed after so many signs? But he complied for their sakes. And being brought on their way by the Church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. Acts 15:3 And observe, the consequence is that all the Samaritans also, learn what has come to the Gentiles: and they rejoiced. And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received of the Church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. Acts 15:4 See what a providence is here! But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that of old days God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Gospel, and believe. Acts 15:5-7 Observe Peter from the first standing aloof (κεχωρισμένον) from the affair, and even to this time judaizing. And yet (says he) ye know. ch. 10:45; 11:2 Perhaps those were present who of old found fault with him in the matter of Cornelius, and went in with him (on that occasion): for this reason he brings them forward as witnesses. From old days, he says, did choose among you. What means, Among you? Either, in Palestine, or, you being present. By my mouth. Observe how he shows that it was God speaking by him, and no human utterance. And God, that knows the hearts, gave testimony unto them: he refers them to the spiritual testimony: by giving them the Holy Ghost even as unto us. Acts 15:8 Everywhere he puts the Gentiles upon a thorough equality. And put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9 From faith alone, he says, they obtained the same gifts. This is also meant as a lesson to those (objectors); this is able to teach even them that faith only is needed, not works nor circumcision. For indeed they do not say all this only by way of apology for the Gentiles, but to teach (the Jewish believers) also to abandon the Law.

(NPNF1-11. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - Christian Classics Ethereal Library) (Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans)

Chrysostom in his Homilies on the epistle of Romans once again makes it clear that it is faith alone:

Ver. 24, 25. Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness.

See by how many proofs he makes good what was said. First, from the worthiness of the person, for it is not a man who does these things, that He should be too weak for it, but God all-powerful. For it is to God, he says, that the righteousness belongs. Again, from the Law and the Prophets. For you need not be afraid at hearing the without the Law, inasmuch as the Law itself approves this. Thirdly, from the sacrifices under the old dispensation. For it was on this ground that he said, In His blood, to call to their minds those sheep and calves. For if the sacrifices of things without reason, he means, cleared from sin, much more would this blood. And he does not say barely λυτρώσεως, but ἀπολυτρώσεως, entire redemption, to show that we should come no more into such slavery. And for this same reason he calls it a propitiation, to show that if the type had such force, much more would the reality display the same. But to show again that it was no novel thing or recent, he says, fore-ordained (Auth. Version marg.); and by saying God fore-ordained, and showing that the good deed is the Father's, he shows it to be the Son's also. For the Father fore-ordained, but Christ in His own blood wrought the whole aright.

To declare His righteousness. What is declaring of righteousness? Like the declaring of His riches, not only for Him to be rich Himself, but also to make others rich, or of life, not only that He is Himself living, but also that He makes the dead to live; and of His power, not only that He is Himself powerful, but also that He makes the feeble powerful. So also is the declaring of His righteousness not only that He is Himself righteous, but that He does also make them that are filled with the putrefying sores (κατασαπέντας) of sin suddenly righteous. And it is to explain this, viz. what is declaring, that he has added, That He might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. Doubt not then: for it is not of works, but of faith: and shun not the righteousness of God, for it is a blessing in two ways; because it is easy, and also open to all men. And be not abashed and shamefaced. For if He Himself openly declares (ἐ νδείκνυται) Himself to do so, and He, so to say, finds a delight and a pride therein, how do you come to be dejected and to hide your face at what your Master glories in? Now then after raising his hearers expectations by saying that what had taken place was a declaring of the righteousness of God, he next by fear urges him on that is tardy and remissful about coming; by speaking as follows:

[...]

He continues:

Ver. 27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded, he says. By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.

Paul is at great pains to show that faith is mighty to a degree which was never even fancied of the Law. For after he had said that God justifies man by faith, he grapples with the Law again. And he does not say, where then are the well doings of the Jews? Where their righteous dealing? But, where is then the boasting? so taking every opportunity of showing, that they do but use great words, as though they had somewhat more than others, and have no work to show. And after saying, Where then is the boasting? he does not say, it is put out of sight and has come to an end, but it is excluded, which word rather expresses unseasonableness; since the reason for it is no more. For as when the judgment has come they that would repent have not any longer the season for it, thus now the sentence being henceforth passed, and all being upon the point of perishing, and He being at hand Who by grace would break these terrors, they had no longer the season for making a plea of amelioration wrought by the Law. For if it were right to strengthen themselves upon these things, it should have been before His coming. But now that He who should save by faith had come, the season for those efforts was taken from them. For since all were convicted, He therefore saves by grace. And this is why He has come but now, that they may not say, as they would had He come at the first, that it was possible to be saved by the Law and by our own labors and well-doings. To curb therefore this their effrontery, He waited a long time: so that after they were by every argument clearly convicted of inability to help themselves, He then saved them by His grace. And for this reason too when he had said above, To declare His righteousness, he added, at this time. If any then were to gainsay, they do the same as if a person who after committing great sins was unable to defend himself in court, but was condemned and going to be punished, and then being by the royal pardon forgiven, should have the effrontery after his forgiveness to boast and say that he had done no sin. For before the pardon came, was the time to prove it: but after it came he would no longer have the season for boasting. And this happened in the Jews' case. For since they had been traitors to themselves, this was why He came, by His very coming doing away their boasting. For he who says that he is a teacher of babes, and makes his boast in the Law, and styles himself an instructor of the foolish, if alike with them he needed a teacher and a Saviour, can no longer have any pretext for boasting. For if even before this, the circumcision was made uncircumcision, much rather was it now, since it is cast out from both periods. But after saying that it was excluded, he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the law of faith? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God's power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only. And in saying this he attempts to bring the Jew who has believed to act with moderation, and to calm him that has not believed, in such way as to draw him on to his own view. For he that has been saved, if he be high-minded in that he abides by the Law, will be told that he himself has stopped his own mouth, himself has accused himself, himself has renounced claims to his own salvation, and has excluded boasting. But he that has not believed again, being humbled by these same means, will be capable of being brought over to the faith. Do you see how great faith's preëminence is? How it has removed us from the former things, not even allowing us to boast of them?
(CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 7 on Romans (Chrysostom) Chrysostom Homily 7 on Romans)

And if the above seems like a fluke, Chrysostom double and triples down here:

'For the righteous,' says he, 'He made a sinner; that He might make the sinners righteous.' Yea rather, he said not even so, but what was greater far; for the word he employed is not the habit, but the quality itself. For he said not made [Him] a sinner, but sin; not, 'Him that had not sinned' only, but that had not even known sin; that we also might become, he did not say 'righteous,' but, righteousness, and, the righteousness of God. For this is [the righteousness] of God when we are justified not by works, (in which case it were necessary that not a spot even should be found,) but by grace, in which case all sin is done away. And this at the same time that it suffers us not to be lifted up, (seeing the whole is the free gift of God,) teaches us also the greatness of that which is given. For that which was before was a righteousness of the Law and of works, but this is the righteousness of God.
(Chrysostom Homily 11 on Second Corinthians CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 11 on Second Corinthians (Chrysostom))

And here from Ephesians:

Ver. 8. For by grace, says he have you been saved.

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise you too high, observe how he brings you down: by grace you have been saved, says he,

Through faith;

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds,

And that not of ourselves.

Neither is faith, he means, of ourselves. Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? For how, says he, shall they believe, unless they hear? Romans 10:14 So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

It is the gift, said he, of God, it is not of works.

Was faith then, you will say, enough to save us? No; but God, says he, has required this, lest He should save us, barren and without work at all. His expression is, that faith saves, but it is because God so wills, that faith saves. Since, how, tell me, does faith save, without works? This itself is the gift of God.

Ver. 9. That no man should glory.

That he may excite in us proper feeling touching this gift of grace. What then? says a man, Hath He Himself hindered our being justified by works? By no means. But no one, he says, is justified by works, in order that the grace and loving-kindness of God may be shown. He did not reject us as having works, but as abandoned of works He has saved us by grace; so that no man henceforth may have whereof to boast. And then, lest when you hear that the whole work is accomplished not of works but by faith, you should become idle, observe how he continues,

Ver. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Observe the words he uses. He here alludes to the regeneration, which is in reality a second creation. We have been brought from non-existence into being. As to what we were before, that is, the old man, we are dead. What we are now become, before, we were not. Truly then is this work a creation, yea, and more noble than the first; for from that one, we have our being; but from this last, we have, over and above, our well being.

(Chrysostom Homily 4 on Ephesians CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom))


Here is another faith alone from Chrysostom's homily on Colossians:

For it is most of all apparent among the Gentiles, as he also says elsewhere, And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy.Romans 15:9 For the great glory of this mystery is apparent among others also, but much more among these.

For, on a sudden, to have brought menmore senseless than stones to the dignity of Angels, simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any laboriousness, is indeed glory and richesof mystery: just as if one were to take a dog, quite consumed with hunger and the mange, foul, and loathsome to see, and not so much as able to move, but lying cast out, and make him all at once into a man, and to display him upon the royal throne.

They were wont to worship stones and the earth; but they learned that themselves are better both than the heaven and the sun, and that the whole world serves them; they were captives and prisoners of the devil: on a sudden they are placed above his head, and lay commands on him and scourge him: from being captives and slaves to demons, they have become the body of The Master of the Angels and the Archangels; from not knowing even what God is, they have become all at once sharers even in God's throne.

Chyrsostom Homily 5 on Colossians
Colossians 1:26-28

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 5 on Colossians (Chrysostom)

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Thanks for the info.

GingerBeer said:

That's better. But by using the word "earned" your post plays into the hands of people who say that Catholics teach works-salvation. The idea of earning salvation is abhorrent to evangelicals.

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I said it is an analogy, and is therefore imperfect. As using a clover to explain the Trinity is imperfect.

With respect it is not a sensible debate since it is founded on failure to research, and no matter how often Catholics answer, the same list reappears.

I will not waste time defending them all again.

But take one example " call no man father" regurgitated by the latest evangelical.

Who has failed to research it long enough to note that. " father " was the term of respect used in the Jewish community for leader of faith.

Which is why for example paul says " I am your father in Christ" and God himself asks Abraham to change his name to " father" as leader in faith. ( the meaning of Abraham).
Neither Paul nor Abraham are declared apostate!

Clearly " call no man father" is an inappropriate proof text against Catholics!

Those researching it will see the apparent contradiction in " hate your father" and " honour your father" , which demonstrates Christ often uses hyperbole.

Yet no matter how often Catholics defend against the ill researched anti catholic mythbook, another will present the same falasy even a few posts on.

As an ex Protestant and evangelical, who researched the early church so became inexorably drawn back to the Catholic Church,
( not least because The anticatholic mythbook I had myself used proved not to have foundation ) I concluded the fundamental problem with Protestants is threefold.

1/ amnesia of the early church
2/ failure to consider that sola scriptura is unjustifiable, so building the reformation on a myth,
3/ what a psychologist calls " informational conformity" - that is the tendency of those with insufficient time or capability to side with those they consider authority..and echo their views non critically - which evangelicals exploit ruthlessly.

And so another generation of anticatholic parrots are born, echoing the same anticatholic mythbook.! Again and again and again!

Eventually Catholics give up answering...and all you hear is the anticatholic mythbook!

redleghunter said:

Which is what we usually get when just having a conversation. Debating claims made by the Roman Catholic church or its members does not constitute "anti Catholic."
Just as a challenge to Sacred Scriptures as the rule of faith does not have me hitting the anti-Bible button immediately when someone challenges.

Or do you think any reasoned opposition to Roman Catholicism is being "anti-Catholic?"

If so then you have the best apologetics approach. Just tell everyone they are wrong and haters for debating. Which is prevalent on many secular sites.

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amariselle said:

As I wrote before, I do believe we obey and serve God, but it's not to be saved, rather, it is because we are saved.

And we do not and cannot "earn our place in heaven".

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So how are we saying something different?

PeaceB said:

Just a joke people.

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Had I not thought so, I'd have been more vocal...

Mountainmike said:

With respect it is not a sensible debate since it is founded on failure to research, and no matter how often Catholics answer, the same list reappears.

I will not waste time defending them all again.

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Can we stop right there? The rest has no bearing on what I posted. Can you find any ECF commentary or homilies on James 2 which affirms @PeaceB claim we are justified by works?

I have provided quotes from actual ECF sources and posted within context. Not a drive by anti-RC site.

I would like to see someone actually post some work of their own instead of linking me to a Jimmy Akins list of grievances.

PeaceB said:

Do you know what you meant by "turn to Christ" when you wrote it in your sentence below?

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Sure. I believe what Scripture says about turning to Christ and believing the Gospel. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) We "rest" in Him (as Christ is our Sabbath)(Hebrews 4:1-5), and we have ceased from our own works (Hebrews 4:10). We do not "go about to establish our own righteousness", (Romans 10:1-4). Indeed, it's the very realization that we cannot, as all our "righteous deeds" are as "filthy rags."

Scripture also says that just as Abraham believed God and his faith was counted to him for righteousness, so it is with us.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. - Romans 4:1-8

We believe in the One who justifies the "ungodly". We trust in Him alone and not our works. We simply rest. That's all we have left when we truly realize that we can do nothing to earn or merit salvation and eternal life.

And all praise, honour and glory goes to Him alone, because He has done it all.

amariselle said:

Sure. I believe what Scripture says about turning to Christ and believing the Gospel. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) We "rest" in Him (as Christ is our Sabbath)(Hebrews 4:1-5), and we have ceased from our own works (Hebrews 4:10). We do not "go about to establish our own righteousness", (Romans 10:1-4). Indeed, it's the very realization that we cannot, as all our "righteous deeds" are as "filthy rags."

Scripture also says that just as Abraham believed God and his faith was counted to him for righteousness, so it is with us.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. - Romans 4:1-8

We believe in the One who justifies the "ungodly". We trust in Him alone and not our works. We simply rest. That's all we have left when we truly realize that we can do nothing to earn or merit salvation and eternal life.

And all praise, honour and glory goes to Him alone, because He has done it all.

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OK. Does a person who has heard and understood the gospel have to “trust in Him alone and not our works” in order to be saved? Yes, or no?

PeaceB said:

OK. Does a person who has heard and understood the gospel have to “trust in Him alone and not our works” in order to be saved? Yes, or no?

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Of course, as Scripture says. I sense, however, that we may not be defining "trust" the same way. Scripture is clear that we "rest" in Him and cease from work (in the hope of justifying or saving ourselves). As the Sabbath day of rest was given to the Jews, it finds its ultimate and complete fulfillment in Christ Jesus our Lord, Who has accomplished everything necessary for our salvation, and to Whose saving work and perfect one time sacrifice, we cannot and do not add even one small thing.

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

PeaceB said:

OK. Does a person who has heard and understood the gospel have to “trust in Him alone and not our works” in order to be saved? Yes, or no?

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Romans 5:12-21 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

amariselle said:

Of course, as Scripture says. I sense, however, that we may not be defining "trust" the same way. Scripture is clear that we "rest" in Him and cease from work (in the hope of justifying or saving ourselves). As the Sabbath day of rest was given to the Jews, it finds its ultimate and complete fulfillment in Christ Jesus our Lord, Who has accomplished everything necessary for our salvation, and to Whose saving work and perfect one time sacrifice, we cannot and do not add even one small thing.

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OK. You wrote “We trust in Him alone and not our works.”

The verb in that sentence is “trust” (however you may like to define it).

Is the verb “trust” in your sentence something that you chose to do, by the exercise of your own free will?

Or did God force you to trust him, as though you were a puppet without a choice?

PeaceB said:

OK. You wrote “We trust in Him alone and not our works.”

The verb in that sentence is “trust” (however you may like to define it).

Is the verb “trust” in your sentence something that you chose to do, by the exercise of your own free will?

Or did God force you to trust him, as though you were a puppet without a choice?

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I believe I was already clear that I believe we have free will and are not puppets.

My point is that we do no work to be saved or stay saved. We rest in Him.

amariselle said:

I believe I was already clear that I believe we have free will and are not puppets.

My point is that we do no work to be saved or stay saved. We rest in Him.

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If you do not want to call trust a work, that is perfectly fine by me.

But it is something that you have to do, in order to be saved. You admit that trust is a verb that one performs as a free will choice, and that this trust is necessary for salvation.

Jesus died for the whole world, yet the whole world will not be saved. The reason why you are saved and why the atheist next to you is damned is because you did something that the atheist did not: you trusted in the Lord.

Now, do the facts that 1) you were required to do something (trust in Jesus) to be saved, 2) you went ahead and did what was required of you (trusted in Jesus), and 3) God decided to save you because you did what was required, mean that you earned your way into heaven?

But then Catholics don't believe in salvation by works.
Another play and false caricature from the anticatholic mythbook.

A logical error on the part of the critics.

To understand my comment consider that
In logic - "Necessary" is not the same as "sufficient".
Works are necessary, not sufficient, you cannot earn salvation by works. No amount can be enough, but You can certainly lose it by failure to do them.

My question to those who think faith is enough, sola fidei: is the only place " faith "and "alone" are used together in the bible is to say faith alone is not enough. So the bible contradicts sola fidei, which is why Luther wanted to amend the bible! Luther wanted to make faith conform to him, not the other way round!

I would also ask those who believe in the fast food parody of Christianity, that sola fidei produces... why did our Lord ask you to do so many other things? If just faith was enough? and also tell you in sheep and goats what happens if you don't!

Like sola scriptura, sola fidei is another falasy on which a "reformation " in truth an apostasy was built!

And so on. We tire of endlessly repeating to parrot fashion critics who never study either what we believe or why we believe it. Like the false parody that is salvation by works.

I replied to the generality of the thread...what Catholics think of Protestants and vice verse. I have been both in my time so I am very well placed to comment. And i can state the Protestant view of Catholics is an illinformed and false caricature, based on the same list of plays from the anticatholic mythbook.

redleghunter said:

Can we stop right there? The rest has no bearing on what I posted. Can you find any ECF commentary or homilies on James 2 which affirms @PeaceB claim we are justified by works?

I have provided quotes from actual ECF sources and posted within context. Not a drive by anti-RC site.

I would like to see someone actually post some work of their own instead of linking me to a Jimmy Akins list of grievances.

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redleghunter said:

Last time you brought up James 2 as an argument, I searched for the better part of two hours to find an ECF who opined on those verses. None exist. I wonder now why? If you can find an early church father who opined on works justify using James 2 please post here.

I do know John Chrysostom wrote quite a bit on Sola Fide. Here are his writings on the subject. I posted this on the other thread we had this discussion with no response.

From a homily by Saint Basil the Great, bishop
(Hom. 20 De humiliate, 3: PG 31, 530-531)

Boast only of the Lord

The wise man must not boast of his wisdom, nor the strong man of his strength, nor the rich man of his riches. What then is the right kind of boasting? What is the source of man’s greatness? Scripture says: The man who boasts must boast of this, that He knows and understands that I am the Lord. Here is man’s greatness, here is man’s glory and majesty: to know in truth what is great, to hold fast to it, and to seek glory from the Lord of glory. The Apostle tells us: The man who boasts must boast of the Lord. He has just said: Christ was appointed by God to be our wisdom, our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption, so that, as it is written, a man who boasts must boast of the Lord.

Boasting of God is perfect and complete when we take no pride in our own righteousness but acknowledge that we are utterly lacking in true righteousness and have been made righteous only by faith in Christ.


Monday, Week 3 - Office of Readings


Chrysostom does use 'alone' not once but twice in his homily on Acts chapter 15:

Do you mark how closely the trials succeed each other, from within, from without? It is well ordered too, that this happens when Paul is present, that he may answer them. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:2 And Paul does not say, What? Have I not a right to be believed after so many signs? But he complied for their sakes. And being brought on their way by the Church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. Acts 15:3 And observe, the consequence is that all the Samaritans also, learn what has come to the Gentiles: and they rejoiced. And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received of the Church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. Acts 15:4 See what a providence is here! But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that of old days God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Gospel, and believe. Acts 15:5-7 Observe Peter from the first standing aloof (κεχωρισμένον) from the affair, and even to this time judaizing. And yet (says he) ye know. ch. 10:45; 11:2 Perhaps those were present who of old found fault with him in the matter of Cornelius, and went in with him (on that occasion): for this reason he brings them forward as witnesses. From old days, he says, did choose among you. What means, Among you? Either, in Palestine, or, you being present. By my mouth. Observe how he shows that it was God speaking by him, and no human utterance. And God, that knows the hearts, gave testimony unto them: he refers them to the spiritual testimony: by giving them the Holy Ghost even as unto us. Acts 15:8 Everywhere he puts the Gentiles upon a thorough equality. And put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9 From faith alone, he says, they obtained the same gifts. This is also meant as a lesson to those (objectors); this is able to teach even them that faith only is needed, not works nor circumcision. For indeed they do not say all this only by way of apology for the Gentiles, but to teach (the Jewish believers) also to abandon the Law.

(NPNF1-11. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - Christian Classics Ethereal Library) (Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans)

Chrysostom in his Homilies on the epistle of Romans once again makes it clear that it is faith alone:

Ver. 24, 25. Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness.

See by how many proofs he makes good what was said. First, from the worthiness of the person, for it is not a man who does these things, that He should be too weak for it, but God all-powerful. For it is to God, he says, that the righteousness belongs. Again, from the Law and the Prophets. For you need not be afraid at hearing the without the Law, inasmuch as the Law itself approves this. Thirdly, from the sacrifices under the old dispensation. For it was on this ground that he said, In His blood, to call to their minds those sheep and calves. For if the sacrifices of things without reason, he means, cleared from sin, much more would this blood. And he does not say barely λυτρώσεως, but ἀπολυτρώσεως, entire redemption, to show that we should come no more into such slavery. And for this same reason he calls it a propitiation, to show that if the type had such force, much more would the reality display the same. But to show again that it was no novel thing or recent, he says, fore-ordained (Auth. Version marg.); and by saying God fore-ordained, and showing that the good deed is the Father's, he shows it to be the Son's also. For the Father fore-ordained, but Christ in His own blood wrought the whole aright.

To declare His righteousness. What is declaring of righteousness? Like the declaring of His riches, not only for Him to be rich Himself, but also to make others rich, or of life, not only that He is Himself living, but also that He makes the dead to live; and of His power, not only that He is Himself powerful, but also that He makes the feeble powerful. So also is the declaring of His righteousness not only that He is Himself righteous, but that He does also make them that are filled with the putrefying sores (κατασαπέντας) of sin suddenly righteous. And it is to explain this, viz. what is declaring, that he has added, That He might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. Doubt not then: for it is not of works, but of faith: and shun not the righteousness of God, for it is a blessing in two ways; because it is easy, and also open to all men. And be not abashed and shamefaced. For if He Himself openly declares (ἐ νδείκνυται) Himself to do so, and He, so to say, finds a delight and a pride therein, how do you come to be dejected and to hide your face at what your Master glories in? Now then after raising his hearers expectations by saying that what had taken place was a declaring of the righteousness of God, he next by fear urges him on that is tardy and remissful about coming; by speaking as follows:

[...]

He continues:

Ver. 27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded, he says. By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.

Paul is at great pains to show that faith is mighty to a degree which was never even fancied of the Law. For after he had said that God justifies man by faith, he grapples with the Law again. And he does not say, where then are the well doings of the Jews? Where their righteous dealing? But, where is then the boasting? so taking every opportunity of showing, that they do but use great words, as though they had somewhat more than others, and have no work to show. And after saying, Where then is the boasting? he does not say, it is put out of sight and has come to an end, but it is excluded, which word rather expresses unseasonableness; since the reason for it is no more. For as when the judgment has come they that would repent have not any longer the season for it, thus now the sentence being henceforth passed, and all being upon the point of perishing, and He being at hand Who by grace would break these terrors, they had no longer the season for making a plea of amelioration wrought by the Law. For if it were right to strengthen themselves upon these things, it should have been before His coming. But now that He who should save by faith had come, the season for those efforts was taken from them. For since all were convicted, He therefore saves by grace. And this is why He has come but now, that they may not say, as they would had He come at the first, that it was possible to be saved by the Law and by our own labors and well-doings. To curb therefore this their effrontery, He waited a long time: so that after they were by every argument clearly convicted of inability to help themselves, He then saved them by His grace. And for this reason too when he had said above, To declare His righteousness, he added, at this time. If any then were to gainsay, they do the same as if a person who after committing great sins was unable to defend himself in court, but was condemned and going to be punished, and then being by the royal pardon forgiven, should have the effrontery after his forgiveness to boast and say that he had done no sin. For before the pardon came, was the time to prove it: but after it came he would no longer have the season for boasting. And this happened in the Jews' case. For since they had been traitors to themselves, this was why He came, by His very coming doing away their boasting. For he who says that he is a teacher of babes, and makes his boast in the Law, and styles himself an instructor of the foolish, if alike with them he needed a teacher and a Saviour, can no longer have any pretext for boasting. For if even before this, the circumcision was made uncircumcision, much rather was it now, since it is cast out from both periods. But after saying that it was excluded, he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the law of faith? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God's power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only. And in saying this he attempts to bring the Jew who has believed to act with moderation, and to calm him that has not believed, in such way as to draw him on to his own view. For he that has been saved, if he be high-minded in that he abides by the Law, will be told that he himself has stopped his own mouth, himself has accused himself, himself has renounced claims to his own salvation, and has excluded boasting. But he that has not believed again, being humbled by these same means, will be capable of being brought over to the faith. Do you see how great faith's preëminence is? How it has removed us from the former things, not even allowing us to boast of them?
(CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 7 on Romans (Chrysostom) Chrysostom Homily 7 on Romans)

And if the above seems like a fluke, Chrysostom double and triples down here:

'For the righteous,' says he, 'He made a sinner; that He might make the sinners righteous.' Yea rather, he said not even so, but what was greater far; for the word he employed is not the habit, but the quality itself. For he said not made [Him] a sinner, but sin; not, 'Him that had not sinned' only, but that had not even known sin; that we also might become, he did not say 'righteous,' but, righteousness, and, the righteousness of God. For this is [the righteousness] of God when we are justified not by works, (in which case it were necessary that not a spot even should be found,) but by grace, in which case all sin is done away. And this at the same time that it suffers us not to be lifted up, (seeing the whole is the free gift of God,) teaches us also the greatness of that which is given. For that which was before was a righteousness of the Law and of works, but this is the righteousness of God.
(Chrysostom Homily 11 on Second Corinthians CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 11 on Second Corinthians (Chrysostom))

And here from Ephesians:

Ver. 8. For by grace, says he have you been saved.

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise you too high, observe how he brings you down: by grace you have been saved, says he,

Through faith;

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds,

And that not of ourselves.

Neither is faith, he means, of ourselves. Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? For how, says he, shall they believe, unless they hear? Romans 10:14 So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

It is the gift, said he, of God, it is not of works.

Was faith then, you will say, enough to save us? No; but God, says he, has required this, lest He should save us, barren and without work at all. His expression is, that faith saves, but it is because God so wills, that faith saves. Since, how, tell me, does faith save, without works? This itself is the gift of God.

Ver. 9. That no man should glory.

That he may excite in us proper feeling touching this gift of grace. What then? says a man, Hath He Himself hindered our being justified by works? By no means. But no one, he says, is justified by works, in order that the grace and loving-kindness of God may be shown. He did not reject us as having works, but as abandoned of works He has saved us by grace; so that no man henceforth may have whereof to boast. And then, lest when you hear that the whole work is accomplished not of works but by faith, you should become idle, observe how he continues,

Ver. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Observe the words he uses. He here alludes to the regeneration, which is in reality a second creation. We have been brought from non-existence into being. As to what we were before, that is, the old man, we are dead. What we are now become, before, we were not. Truly then is this work a creation, yea, and more noble than the first; for from that one, we have our being; but from this last, we have, over and above, our well being.

(Chrysostom Homily 4 on Ephesians CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom))


Here is another faith alone from Chrysostom's homily on Colossians:

For it is most of all apparent among the Gentiles, as he also says elsewhere, And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy.Romans 15:9 For the great glory of this mystery is apparent among others also, but much more among these.

For, on a sudden, to have brought menmore senseless than stones to the dignity of Angels, simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any laboriousness, is indeed glory and richesof mystery: just as if one were to take a dog, quite consumed with hunger and the mange, foul, and loathsome to see, and not so much as able to move, but lying cast out, and make him all at once into a man, and to display him upon the royal throne.

They were wont to worship stones and the earth; but they learned that themselves are better both than the heaven and the sun, and that the whole world serves them; they were captives and prisoners of the devil: on a sudden they are placed above his head, and lay commands on him and scourge him: from being captives and slaves to demons, they have become the body of The Master of the Angels and the Archangels; from not knowing even what God is, they have become all at once sharers even in God's throne.

Chyrsostom Homily 5 on Colossians
Colossians 1:26-28

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 5 on Colossians (Chrysostom)

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I took a look at a bit of your stuff. The ECF do not exclude works from salvation. Luckily someone else has already done the work for me.

Let's take Chrysostom as a quick example:

DID ANY CHURCH FATHERS TEACH SOLA FIDE? RESPONSE TO A CLAIM

For what he saith is this, "Your salvation is not our work alone, but your own as well;for both we in preaching to you the word endure affliction, and ye in receiving it endure the very same; we to impart to you that which we received, ye to receive what is imparted and not to let it go." Now what humility can compare with this, seeing that those who fell so far short of him he raiseth to the same dignity of endurance? for he saith, "Which worked in the enduring of the same sufferings;" for not through believing only cometh your salvation, but also through the suffering and enduring the same things with us. NPNF1: Vol. XII, p. 277.

For, "think not," saith he, "because ye have believed, that this is sufficient for your salvation: since if to me neither preaching nor teaching nor bringing over innumerable persons, is enough for salvation unless I exhibit my own conduct also unblameable, much less to you,." NPNF1: Vol. XII, p. 133

See how near he is come to the thing. He saith, "In the putting" quite away, not putting off merely. "The body of sins." He means, "the old life." He is continually adverting to this in different ways, as he said above, "Who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and reconciled us who were alienated," that we should be "holy and without blemish." (Col. i. 13, 21.) No longer, he saith, is the circumcision with the knife, but in Christ Himself; for no hand imparts this circumcision, as is the case there, but the Spirit. It circumciseth not a part, but the whole man. It is the body both in the one and the other case, but in the one it is carnally, in the other it is spiritually circumcised; but not as the Jews, for ye have not put off flesh, but sins. When and where? In Baptism. And what he calls circumcision, he again calls burial. NPNFI, Vol. XIII, p. 285.

Again, if we do all things ever so rightly, and yet do our neighbor no service, neither in that case shall we enter into the kingdom. Whence is this evident? From the parable of the servants entrusted with the talents. For, in that instance, the man's virtue was in every point unimpaired, and there had been nothing lacking, but for as much as he was slothful in his business, he was rightly cast out. Nay, it is possible, even by railing only, to fall into Hell. "For whosoever" saith Christ, "shall say to his brother, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire." (Matt. v: 22.) And if a man be ever so right in all things, and yet be injurious, he shall not enter. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 68.

And let no one impute cruelty to God, in that he excludes those who fail in this matter, from the kingdom of Heaven. For even with men, if any one do any thing whatsoever contrary to the law, he is banished from the king's presence. And if he transgresses so much as one of the established laws, if he lays a false accusation against another, he forfeits his office. And if he commits adultery, and is detected, he is disgraced, and even though he have done ten thousand right acts, he is undone; and if he commits murder, and is convicted, this again is enough to destroy him. Now if the laws of men are so carefully guarded, how much more should those of God be.

Let us not then vainly flatter our own souls with speeches like these; no, let us take heed, let us have a regard for our own salvation, let us make virtue our care, let us rouse ourselves to the practice of good works, that we may be counted worthy to attain to this exceeding glory, in Jesus Christ our Lord with whom to the Father, together with the Holy Spirit be glory, might, honor, now and ever, and for ages of ages. Amen. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 68

Ver 4. "Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the Law; ye are fallen away from grace."

Having established his point, he at length declares their danger of the severest punishment. When a man recurs to the Law, which cannot save him, and falls from grace, what remains but an inexorable retribution, the Law being powerless, and grace rejecting him? Thus having aggravated their alarm, and disquieted their mind, and shown them all the shipwreck they were about to suffer, he opens to them the haven of grace which was near at hand. This is ever his wont, and he shows that in this quarter salvation is easy and secure, sub-joining the words,
Ver 5. "For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness." We need none of those legal observances, he says; faith suffices to obtain for us the Spirit, and by Him righteousness, and many and great benefits...
Ver 6. "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love."
What is the meaning of "working through love?" Here he gives them a hard blow, by showing that this error had crept in because the love of Christ had not been rooted within them. For to believe is not all that is required, but also to abide in love. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 37


But the fruit of the Spirit is of a nature not similar but contrary in all respects to these. For consider; hast thou sown alms-giving? the treasures of heaven and eternal glory await thee: hast thou sown temperance? honor and reward, and the applause of Angels, and a crown from the Judge await thee. NPNF1: Vol. XIII, p. 45

See also the information here:

DID ANY CHURCH FATHERS TEACH SOLA FIDE? RESPONSE TO A CHALLENGE

Good luck.

GingerBeer said:

Doesn't the letter of James say " You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

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James 2:24? Context, context, context my friend. You see, if you were to properly exegete the passage, you would in fact come to the obvious conclusion that "a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone" in fact means that "a person is justified by faith alone, and not by works."