The Earth is young

GBTG · Nov 20, 2017

jhwatts said:
You cannot assume a verbatim chronology in Genesis. Here is an example why not. Look at Genesis 11:1. Notice it states the earth is one language. Now look at Genesis 10:31. It states that these families had many different tongues or languages. Is this a contradiction, or a chronological disconnect? These verse are out of order chronologically and so are other verses and chapters in this book. Not only that but the books of Bible themselves are out of order. Ordering scripture to fit Chronologically is required sometimes.

Ummm... chronologically one is before the flood and one is after... Last time I checked Noah and his offspring all spoke the same language.

Genesis 10:32 These [are] the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Nice attempt though!

Regards, GBTG

KWCrazy · Nov 20, 2017

Goatee said:
How long is 6 days to God?

How long is a single rotation of the earth; an evening and morning?

KWCrazy · Nov 20, 2017

Grandliseur said:
When scripture itself indicates this to be days of 7000 years at a minimum,

No it doesn't.
7,000 year days = 7,000 year nights, and nothing survives.
Nothing died before Adam's sin. How, then, could he have evolved?

KWCrazy · Nov 20, 2017

Jadis40 said:
There certainly was no "planet-wide" flood within the past 6000 years.

Luke 17: 26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all."

So was Jesus lying, or was there a flood?
Was Sodom destroyed by fire and brimstone from heaven, or was Jesus lying?
Jesus confirmed that man should live by "every word that comes from the mouth of God." What words are these? Id the Bible isn't the word of God, what is it? If Jesus believed the Bible was true, was he deceived?

My standard is simple. If your post conforms to the words of the Lord it is truthful. If it contradicts what Jesus taught, there is no truth in it.

DarkSoul999 · Nov 20, 2017

JacksBratt said:
What?????? they didn't speak English???

All sarcasm aside... I have read all kinds of commentaries on this and the cross references to translations and word dictionaries....

The transcripts from which the modern text has been translated stand firm and the other areas of the Bible support the six days of creation. It has been posted here over and over.

I don't believe you. There are so many possibilities for the meaning of the word "Yom" and also in the context of the sentence. Show me the original Hebrew and the eventually translation into modern languages or at least provide a link from a history or theology site.

JacksBratt said:
I really don't know why some Christians cannot totally support the six days.

because 6 literal day creationism is just as absurd as the belief that the Earth rests on the back of a giant turtle.

JacksBratt said:
Why do they have to diminish the ability and words of God in order to coincide with the theories and perceptions of the finite mind of men.

I am fully 100% certain that when all things are exposed and known to all of mankind... the error will not be on God's word.. I will be on the speculation, assumption and extrapolation of pseudo science and its effort to explain this universe and do it without an designer.

If the Bible said that the whole Earth was sitting on the back of a turtle would you still declare it the Word of God?

We are getting in dangerous territory here. Does God refuse to provide any evidence of his existence other than emotional sensations to a few special people?

Edison Trent · Nov 20, 2017

mindlight said:
The YEC view is that basically the earth is 6-10000 years old. Answers in Genesis list 10 strong evidences for this here.

These are basically the following

#1 Very Little Sediment on the Seafloor
#2 Bent Rock Layers
#3 Soft Tissue in Fossils
#4 Faint Sun Paradox
#5 Rapidly Decaying Magnetic Field
#6 Helium in Radioactive Rocks
#7 Carbon-14 in Fossils, Coal, and Diamonds
#8 Short-Lived Comets
#9 Very Little Salt in the Sea
#10 DNA in “Ancient” Bacteria

How would those of you who believe in an Old Earth counter these scientific arguments?

EDIT:

I thought my OP was clearly focused on the scientific arguments I listed. I will add the text of this post to my OP to clarify that. I have assumed since this is the Christians only section of the forums that everybody here is happy with the view God did it. But yes there is a variance on how he did it. I am happy to hear the opinions of Christians only as to whether the various scientific evidences I listed are credible or not with a focus on the age of the earth.

If the arguments are valid then a YEC position has some scientific credibility, if not then an Old Earth or TE position or day age theory may be better. But I would prefer to discuss the biblical evidences and positions elsewhere. This is focused on the scientific evidences listed. I hope the list is not too long but it gives people the opportunity to pick and mix the ones they are interested in.

First off what you added as references are not from the actual Scienctist them selves, but from a site pushing Genesis. I think that is somewhat of a bias view.

Gold is not made in the earth like coal and oil, the creation of gold came from a old star supernovae by God's design, that alone tells me the earth is a lot older than 10k years.

Edison Trent · Nov 20, 2017

KWCrazy said:
How long is a single rotation of the earth; an evening and morning?

That is determine by the sun that shines on the earth to tell the time of 1 day on earth, the sun wasn't formed until the 4th day. none of that has anything to do with how God sees time, like 1 miilion years is like a minute to God.

Edison Trent · Nov 20, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Luke 17: 26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all."

So was Jesus lying, or was there a flood?
Was Sodom destroyed by fire and brimstone from heaven, or was Jesus lying?
Jesus confirmed that man should live by "every word that comes from the mouth of God." What words are these? Id the Bible isn't the word of God, what is it? If Jesus believed the Bible was true, was he deceived?

My standard is simple. If your post conforms to the words of the Lord it is truthful. If it contradicts what Jesus taught, there is no truth in it.

There no lying in that, everything was destroyed in the area of the flood,

DarkSoul999 · Nov 20, 2017

Edison Trent said:
There no lying in that, everything was destroyed in the area of the flood,

There is considerable evidence of massive flooding in the Black Sea 7600 years ago. This was a true story passed down by mouth and then eventually written in the Bible. It was probably worse than the recent Tsunami in the pacific which killed 200,000+ people. However, it was NOT global. If it was worldwide then we would have seen the simultaneous annihilation of all civilizations and a gradual return of civilization after a complete social reset to the paleolithic!

GBTG · Nov 20, 2017

KWCrazy said:
How long is a single rotation of the earth; an evening and morning?

-to God? (and if we are being totally accurate the hours from evening to morning are like 8-12 hrs depending on the season. Oh wait a minute... God did not create seasons until the 4th "day" of creation)

I also fixed your question for you to make it more accurate, according to the perspective of the book of Genesis.

Also please show or draw me a picture of the Earth according to Genesis 1:1-5, please include the light and the dark! (you can't use the sun or moon because they have not been made yet.)

For reference I have given you the English and direct Hebrew translation:

Genesis 1:1-5 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day"

Direct Hebrew traslation to English: "in·beginning, Elohim (God), created, the·heavens, and, the·earth, and·the·earth, she-became, chaos, and·vacancy, and·darkness, over, surfaces-of, abyss, and·spirit-of, Elohim, vibrating, over, surfaces-of, the·waters, and·he-is-saying, Elohim, he-shall-become, he-is-becoming, light, and·he-is-seeing, Elohim, the·light, good, and·he-is-separating, Elohim, between, the·light, and·between, the·darkness, and·he-is-calling, Elohim, to·the·light, and·to·the·darkness, and·he-is-becoming, evening, and·he-is-becoming, morning, day, one."

Warm regards, GBTG

Grandliseur · Nov 20, 2017

Ref post 249

redleghunter said:
I asked an honest question and was not probing. I asked if you thought as God reveals in Exodus 20:11 that the Israelites were thinking 6 solar days for creation

Naturally, I have read what that scripture says, " 11 for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

It also seems obvious that the Israelites would take this as applying to our 24 hour days. Before going further, read the portion of scripture it addresses:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

What is this about? Is it about God creating or is it about the Sabbath?! Since Genesis chapter one does say "days" and not Terra-forming days or some other term, it would be logical for the subject to be stated as it is. Therefore, this subject here is not about creation but about the Sabbath, and why we should rest on the seventh day.

There is no contradiction with the creation account in this, because even if the creation account days were of long periods, they still are called days. If we then want to see what happened in the creation account, we go back and read it and judge it on its merits.

As I said, I have no other agenda but to go by the Bible. My explanation about how there is no limit to what God can do in one day means that if God did want to create things in one day, he would have. I posted a new thread about a scientific discovery that even shows how God could have caused sunlight to still reach our planet while being younger than what science claims, but I think nobody discovered it. Wrong forum?!

So, if you want to address the points I already have given, including the fact that the beginning is said to be from an eternity ago, I would be happy to speak to you on this point. In the end, though, each has to believe as we think is true.

Grandliseur · Nov 20, 2017

KWCrazy said:
No it doesn't.
7,000 year days = 7,000 year nights, and nothing survives.
Nothing died before Adam's sin. How, then, could he have evolved?

Sorry, you and I are not speaking from the same premises. Total disagreement.

GBTG · Nov 20, 2017

This is really simple... to whom is the "day" accounted. If there were no people at the time of Genesis "days" 1-5, then those five "days" must be the "days" of God, not man. To that end Yom is still correct you just have to apply it to the creator, not to man, for we were not there to observe. So the days of creation are like those days of man, hence the 6 day week with a Sabbath day. Perfectly logical and fine, accords with the Bible, does not sound like nonsense.

Regards, GBTG

Edison Trent · Nov 20, 2017

DarkSoul999 said:
There is considerable evidence of massive flooding in the Black Sea 7600 years ago. This was a true story passed down by mouth and then eventually written in the Bible. It was probably worse than the recent Tsunami in the pacific which killed 200,000+ people. However, it was NOT global. If it was worldwide then we would have seen the simultaneous annihilation of all civilizations and a gradual return of civilization after a complete social reset to the paleolithic!

I agree, I've seen shows on some of these places, that have been formed from what is called mega floods, some being the grand cannon, the English Channel, and the skatelands of Washington State, from receding glaciers of the ice age that build up huge walls of water then breaking loose and flooding everything in sight, so mega floods do and can happen for sure.

Job 33:6 · Nov 20, 2017

mindlight said:
We were discussing examples where there were no fractures and yet the rocks bent. Fractures can of course occur after solidification and that is not in dispute.

This is still insufficient for young earth creationism, as fractures occur at various times in earth history.

For example, lets say layers A B C D E F and G are laid down, a normal fault forms, the layers are offset, H I J K and L are laid down, a reverse fault forms. A through G encompass paleozoic rocks, H through L encompass mesozoic.

This is just an example off the top of my head.

If you propose that the rocks must have solidified and were then fractured, then you have to explain how the next 5000 feet of layers formed beyond that first era. Which is impossible to do with a single global flood.

Figure-2.3-Development-of-the-Kaibab-Upwarp.jpg

Job 33:6 · Nov 20, 2017

See if you can explain the fault there in the middle of this diagram, under the pretext of a global flood and solidification of rock prior to faulting. (as a young earther)

@mindlight

This is a loaded question, you will not be able to, but to demonstrate a point, I am proposing the question to you.

Grandliseur · Nov 20, 2017

GBTG said:
Ummm... chronologically one is before the flood and one is after... Last time I checked Noah and his offspring all spoke the same language.

Genesis 10:32 These [are] the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Nice attempt though!

Regards, GBTG

I am getting in the middle of your argument of those two scriptures. Here we must not get stuck on one verse but we must understand what is being said about the whole situation.

What is chapter ten about? It is an account of the family tree of Noah and his 3 sons. We are told about the first generational series of mankind, some names can even be found today, though, I have never made a study of this, I have seen a few such cases where we can see the old names being used in fairly historical writings.

This account is not relating anything to a specific historical event and since it was compiled by Moses, perhaps with old writings, and certainly by inspiration in around 1500 BC, it should not come as a surprise that Moses by God's dictates would refer to nations of these peoples, these offspring.

When then we are told that the confusion of languages occurred at Babylon, this means that there was no more than one language before then.

As in the Genesis account chapter one and two, we see one account being general in chapter one, while chapter two focuses on what happened with Adam. Here also, it is entirely logical to have one portion of Genesis devoted by itself to the family tree of Noah and his sons. The branching out of the account to explain their travels east and the Babylon account follows nicely in the whole account.

jhwatts · Nov 20, 2017

GBTG said:
Ummm... chronologically one is before the flood and one is after... Last time I checked Noah and his offspring all spoke the same language.

Genesis 10:32 These [are] the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Nice attempt though!

Regards, GBTG

Both are post flood however Genesis 11: (1-11) squeezes in between about Genesis 10:9 through Genesis 10:31.

Regardless, the scripture and verses are not in chronological order.

The same thing occurs at more that one place in the first five chapters in Genesis.

joshua 1 9 · Nov 20, 2017

GBTG said:
Ummm... chronologically one is before the flood and one is after... Last time I checked Noah and his offspring all spoke the same language.

Genesis 10:32 These [are] the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Nice attempt though!

Regards, GBTG

Science tells us: ""What is intriguing is that the genetic markers of this first pan-European culture, which was clearly very successful, were then suddenly replaced around 4,500 years ago, and we don't know why," said study co-author Alan Cooper, of the University of Adelaide Australian Center for Ancient DNA, in a statement. "Something major happened, and the hunt is now on to find out what that was." Ancient Europeans Mysteriously Vanished 4,500 Years Ago

Perhaps what they are hunting for 4500 years ago is the story of Noah and the flood.

GBTG · Nov 20, 2017

jhwatts said:
Both are post flood however Genesis 11: (1-11) squeezes in between about Genesis 10:9 through Genesis 10:31.

Regardless, the scripture and verses are not in chronological order.

The same thing occurs at more that one place in the first five chapters in Genesis.

I don’t understand how this does not account chronologically? Having just read both chapters all the way through they run parallel. This is not an apples to apples comparison to Genesis. This is like saying Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John happened in a chronological order, when they happened simultaneously. Genesis 10 is purely a genealogy, Genesis 11 is what happened during that genealogy.

In regard to references to these scriptures I don’t want to stray from the original argument of the earth being young. Genetics is for another time.

The matter at hand is still the logical order of the first book of Genesis, and if it was literal days of man or days of God.

Warm regards, GBTG

The Earth is young

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