What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

NeedyFollower · Nov 15, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Take for example 2 Timothy 2:15. It says,
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

So God's Word here is commanding you to study the Scriptures to show yourself approved unto God. Yet, Modern Translations say something else. They say things like make every effort to make yourself approved unto God. But being approved of by God is not just blind action. One has to first study God's Word and rightly divide the Word of truth.

1 Corinthians 6:20 says we are to glorify God not only in our body but we are also to glorify Him in our spirit, which are God's. The ESV leaves out glorifying God in our spirit and saying that our body and spirit are God's. There is no mention of this elsewhere in the immediate context.

Romans 8:1 talks about the Condemntion as not just being in Christ Jesus but ALSO walking after the Spirit. To change this is to change what the Condemnation is.

1 John 5:7 is the clearest teaching on the Trinity in the Bible. But if you have a Modern Translation, you really will not see such a clear teaching. In fact, many today have bought into the lie that this verse was not supposed to be in their Bible and that it was added later. That is silly.

See this article here:
Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7) - King James Version Today

1 Corinthians 7:39 in the ESV gives us false information. It says a wife is bound by her husband and yet the trusted KJV says that the a wife is bound by the Law as long as her husband lives. In other words, one has to be married by law and they are bound by that law as long as the husband lives. Yet, the ESV would rather have us believe it was not this way.

1 Corinthians 15:47 says that the second man is the Lord from heaven and yet the ESV says that the second man is from heaven and does not call Him Lord. This to me is a big problem. It is not until verse 56 until the ESV mentions Jesus. Who is the second man? Second man is from heaven but is He Lord? The ESV does not say.

In Ephesians 3:9 it is clear Jesus created all things, and yet the ESV does not make this fact clear in Ephesians 3 at all. It implies it is just God the Father who created all things.

In Ephesians 3:14 it says we are to bow to Jesus. Yet, Ephesians 3 in the ESV eliminates this truth.

Colossians 1:14 says we have redemption through HIS BLOOD. Yet, the ESV leaves out the blood.

1 Timothy 3:16 says GOD was manifested in the flesh. Yet, the ESV leaves out the fact that God was manifest in the flesh. So it is a corrupt Bible.

Hi Brother ..I am in the process of reading " Best Seller " by Brian Moynahan . It is regarding the writing of the first english language Bible. The KJV kept about 85% of Tyndall's translations ( in some instances , I think Tyndall uses a better translation of a phrase than the KJV committee chose ..for example , instead of " Be not be conformed to this world ( KJV ) ..Tyndall had originally written "Fassion not your selves to this world " as you know , their spelling and letters were much different. As I stated earlier ..I am very much a KJV fan but realize that it does have some errors . ( Tyndall hoped his translation would be improved upon as he was being chased all over europe while translating it. . )
With that said , I am with you on the omissions of the ESV .
The enemy of the truth "via the established church of the day " hunted Tyndall and others and many were burned at the stake for publishing an English language version . Tyndall understood that the whole bible was to be studied in order to rightly divide the truth . This agrees with Proverbs 25:2 ..It is the glory of God to conceal matters ; to search out a matter is the glory of kings . This also agrees with Hebrews ..Without faith, it is impossible to please God for you must believe that He is and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
I am thankful you see the errors from many of the newer translations but again just wanted to exhort you in caution from any self-rightousness you may fall into from being a KJV only person . ( By the way dear brother ..I am not saying you ARE in any way self-righteous ..just be careful of that snare ! ) Grace and peace in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ ..Be fruitful in your service to Him . Pray often and always ..I am thankful for your break down of the KJV and the ESV.

DamianWarS · Nov 15, 2017

Jason0047 said:
God says in His Word that His Word is perfect and that it would be preserved for all generations.
In fact, if somebody were to try and destroy God's Word, we see that God would protect or preserve His Word. We see an example of this in Jeremiah 36:22-32 where king Jehoiakim burns the scroll in a fire (i.e. to eliminate God's Word) and then later God has Jeremiah re-create another roll that says the same thing. In other words, the written Word could not be destroyed by fire, just as the Living Word cannot be destroyed by fire. For the fourth who was in the fiery furnace with Daniel's friends was the Son of God (Daniel 3:25).

So God has the power to intervene directly and protect the preservation of His Word when it is needed at the right time.

Yes. All of them that differ from the KJV are sort of like a watered down version of the Word of God. However, this does not mean that certain basic truths like salvation through Christ, living holy through the Lord, etc. are not taught within these other versions; But knowing the whole truth on many verses or passages is just not possible because words have been omitted and changed. But to whom much is given, much is required. KJV folk actually have more responsibility with having the pure Word than those who do not have it.

Sorry I'm just not in the place where you are and don't see how this conversation can continue based on such blinded bias to the KJV. It's clear that this thread has an agenda to declare the KJV as the supreme written word of God that it ignores intelligent conversation. It's a very Islam/Quran mindset and I can no longer be a part of it.

gordonhooker · Nov 15, 2017

DamianWarS said:
Sorry I'm just not in the place where you are and don't see how this conversation can continue based on such blinded bias to the KJV. It's clear that this thread has an agenda to declare the KJV as the supreme written word of God that it ignores intelligent conversation. It's a very Islam/Quran mindset and I can no longer be a part of it.

I agree with you - when it gets to the stage this topic is at it is obvious it is entirely agenda driven. I think the Bible quote in my signature says it all, I have included the KJV translation here:

2Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. (KJV)

Bible Highlighter · Nov 16, 2017

DamianWarS said:
Sorry I'm just not in the place where you are and don't see how this conversation can continue based on such blinded bias to the KJV. It's clear that this thread has an agenda to declare the KJV as the supreme written word of God that it ignores intelligent conversation. It's a very Islam/Quran mindset and I can no longer be a part of it.

I know you are not in the same place I am at. If you were, you would challenge what I said with Scripture in return. What is odd is that the Modern Translation view cannot be defended with Scripture and yet the KJV position can be defended with God's Word. I provided three reasons that are biblical. In fact, every teaching or truth we hold to should be able to be defended with God's Word. It is strange that your position cannot be defended in such a way. In Acts chapter 2 we learn that God was perfectly able to communicate to everyone using their own language. Why you think God has changed and is not able to act as a translator for His own Word is beyond me. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). But not all Words of God say the same thing. Hence, not everyone's faith is the same because each Bible is slightly different. Some have even denied the Trinity because the Modern Translations removed 1 John 5:7. They think this removal was justified. Today, we have a Queen James Bible. There is a Bible for different people. But God's Word does not change. His Word will endure forever.

As for the Islam/Quran comment in reference to believers believing the KJV is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God:

That is just a baseless accusation. People who believe in the Quran not because they are guided to that truth by the evidence. They believe in this religion because they want to believe in a God, but yet they do not want the truth. The Quran also is highly centered or themed on hate or violence. If one were to take this book seriously, it is not good news for everyone else. But if somebody takes the KJV seriously, and they accept Christ as their Savior and allow Him to live in their hearts, they will be a new creation and they will see amazing things happen that will transform people's lives for the better. They will have a peace and a love unlike that of the person who follows the Quran. So I would say that your accusation is just plainly false and is a baseless accusation (Set out to make the KJV-onlyist look like a bad guy).

But we need more people today believing the Word of God. Even if it is Christians who just believe in following Modern Translations and do not regard the KJV as the perfect Word of God. God can do so much good through the lives of men who trust in His Word on many levels. But I would caution my fellow brothers and sisters here (including yourself) not to think of themselves too highly whereby they compare their fellow believer’s trust in God’s Word as being like that of the Quran. That is not nice.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 17, 2017

NeedyFollower said:
Hi Brother ..I am in the process of reading " Best Seller " by Brian Moynahan . It is regarding the writing of the first english language Bible. The KJV kept about 85% of Tyndall's translations ( in some instances , I think Tyndall uses a better translation of a phrase than the KJV committee chose ..for example , instead of " Be not be conformed to this world ( KJV ) ..Tyndall had originally written "Fassion not your selves to this world " as you know , their spelling and letters were much different. As I stated earlier ..I am very much a KJV fan but realize that it does have some errors . ( Tyndall hoped his translation would be improved upon as he was being chased all over europe while translating it. . )
With that said , I am with you on the omissions of the ESV .
The enemy of the truth "via the established church of the day " hunted Tyndall and others and many were burned at the stake for publishing an English language version . Tyndall understood that the whole bible was to be studied in order to rightly divide the truth . This agrees with Proverbs 25:2 ..It is the glory of God to conceal matters ; to search out a matter is the glory of kings . This also agrees with Hebrews ..Without faith, it is impossible to please God for you must believe that He is and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
I am thankful you see the errors from many of the newer translations but again just wanted to exhort you in caution from any self-rightousness you may fall into from being a KJV only person . ( By the way dear brother ..I am not saying you ARE in any way self-righteous ..just be careful of that snare ! ) Grace and peace in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ ..Be fruitful in your service to Him . Pray often and always ..I am thankful for your break down of the KJV and the ESV.

I believe the 1769 is the perfect Word of God. This is when the printing process was more perfected and whereby spelling was more standardized.

I believe the KJV is divine for three reasons biblically.

#1. God's Word says that it is perfect and that it will be preserved for all generations. English is the world language; And it is logical to assume that God would preserve His Word for our world language today because His Word says that it would be preserved for all generations.

#2. A side by side comparison between the KJV and Modern Translations shows us that the KJV is superior and the Modern Translations are corrupt.

#3. Biblical Numerics show us that the KJV is divine in origin. The amazing pattern of meaning behind the numbers in the Bible primarily appear in the KJV and not the Modern Translations.

NeedyFollower · Nov 18, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I believe the 1769 is the perfect Word of God. This is when the printing process was more perfected and whereby spelling was more standardized.

I believe the KJV is divine for three reasons biblically.

#1. God's Word says that it is perfect and that it will be preserved for all generations. English is the world language; And it is logical to assume that God would preserve His Word for our world language today because His Word says that it would be preserved for all generations.

#2. A side by side comparison between the KJV and Modern Translations shows us that the KJV is superior and the Modern Translations are corrupt.

#3. Biblical Numerics show us that the KJV is divine in origin. The amazing pattern of meaning behind the numbers in the Bible primarily appear in the KJV and not the Modern Translations.

Hello brother ...Many of our brothers and sisters came to a saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through Wycliffes , Tyndales and then the KJV translation of 1611. In England ( and many other countries ) it was so opposed by what was considered the church ( about the same time of reformation ) that it was pretty much a guarantee of being burned at the stake to even have a copy of the gospel or portions of the gospel in any other language than the Latin Vulgate. As you are aware, the latin translation was by Jerome but latin did not convey concepts of the hebrew or the greek ( new testament ) as well as the english . And of course the problem was , no one but the very educated read , understood or spoke latin. That meant primarily the wealthy or someone connected ..not the common people . I believe it was Tyndale that said that it was his hope that even the plow boy should know the scriptures better than the clergy. So , is the KJV divine inspired ? Yes ...I believe the enemy ( via the church and through secular powers ) tried to stop it . But as every translator acknowledged in their humility that it was still but a human effort and yet by God's Grace the light still shown through . In the early copies ( 1611 and before ) there used to be a preface stating that. Godly men used to be humble and truthfully they still are. Tyndale ( a martyr and devout man of God ) made many corrections and trusted more would be made. ( He is the one you quote when you say that God's Word is perfect . ) God's word is perfect ...That was written prior to the 1611 translation and the 1769 translation. God's Word is perfect ( and spotless and blameless and guileless and beautiful and lovley beyond all human descriptions which all fall short of His true glory .
This remains true despite the translation error in Act's 7:45 of the 1769 KJV . ( It should read Joshua and not Jesus as anyone who knows the Exodus story knows ...Joshua brought the tabernacle of witness into the territory of the gentiles ....exactly as later Jesus ( Joshua / Yashua ) was to bring the tabernacle of witness to the gentiles ...It was an amazing foreshadowing ( as there are many in the OT . ) Moses/ The Law/the Israelite's regarding the old covenant and temporal promised land and Jerusalem and Joshua / Yeshua / Jesus as a light to the gentiles into the eternal promised land and the new Jerusalem. ( We seek a city who's maker and builder is God . ) Brother ... Is this not wonderful ?????

God's Word is perfect . He showed us just how perfect His Word is by submitting to the will of the Father even unto death . I do not disagree with you regarding many of the new translations but be careful not to confuse the written word with the living Word . It was the reason why Jesus was crucified by those who knew the written word but did not know the living word . As He said I am the Way , the Truth and the Life. Our faith is in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by WHO ? " And from a child thou has known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus . "
The Word of God is Our Lord Jesus Christ . May you grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and bear fruit unto His glory . That is my hope for myself as well . Peace .

Bible Highlighter · Nov 19, 2017

NeedyFollower said:
Hello brother ...Many of our brothers and sisters came to a saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through Wycliffes , Tyndales and then the KJV translation of 1611. In England ( and many other countries ) it was so opposed by what was considered the church ( about the same time of reformation ) that it was pretty much a guarantee of being burned at the stake to even have a copy of the gospel or portions of the gospel in any other language than the Latin Vulgate. As you are aware, the latin translation was by Jerome but latin did not convey concepts of the hebrew or the greek ( new testament ) as well as the english . And of course the problem was , no one but the very educated read , understood or spoke latin. That meant primarily the wealthy or someone connected ..not the common people . I believe it was Tyndale that said that it was his hope that even the plow boy should know the scriptures better than the clergy.

I am not saying that a person cannot be saved by reading a Modern Translation. However, when it comes to important doctrines or truths, the pure Word of God (KJV 1769) is more effective. The Trinity, the blood atonement, righteousness, Christology, are more fully and purely taught with no filters of man's false thinking.

You said:
So , is the KJV divine inspired ? Yes ...I believe the enemy ( via the church and through secular powers ) tried to stop it . But as every translator acknowledged in their humility that it was still but a human effort and yet by God's Grace the light still shown through . In the early copies ( 1611 and before ) there used to be a preface stating that. Godly men used to be humble and truthfully they still are.

So God's inspiration upon His Holy Word is not perfect? I disagree. Only one Bible is perfectly divinely inspired by God. Everything God does is perfect and without error.

While the Bible was written by the hands of men, ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Not all Bibles are profitable for doctrine because many Bibles remove or water down certain doctrines or truths.

The preface of the KJV is irrelevant. Just as God used men like Moses who did not think they were anything to take part in God's work, the Lord still used Moses (despite what he thought).

You said:
Tyndale ( a martyr and devout man of God ) made many corrections and trusted more would be made. ( He is the one you quote when you say that God's Word is perfect . )

No. I am not quoting Tyndale. I am quoting God's Word (1769 KJV). The work that God provided with the 1769 KJV was a final work that was divinely inspired by God that is perfect.

You said:
God's word is perfect ...That was written prior to the 1611 translation and the 1769 translation. God's Word is perfect ( and spotless and blameless and guileless and beautiful and lovley beyond all human descriptions which all fall short of His true glory .

No.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

You said:
This remains true despite the translation error in Act's 7:45 of the 1769 KJV.

Some say that Joshua is translated as Jesus and they are the same name. But I am leaning towards the fact that Acts of the Apostles 7:45 is saying that this is in fact Jesus. How so? Because Jesus was the One who helped Joshua conquer the Gentiles.

Joshua 5:13-15

Jesus appeared to Joshua in the form of a man. This man was worshiped by Joshua (v. 14) and this man declared that Joshua was standing on Holy ground (v. 15)

We learn that Jesus gives plans to Joshua to help defeat his enemies at AI.

In another battle: Who took down the wall of Jericho? Was it Joshua or Jesus?

To see other appearances of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament go here:
Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.

As for Hebrews 4:8:

Jesus is the One who ultimately gives rest and it was not Joshua.
In Matthew 11:28 says that Jesus comes to give us rest within the New Testament.
This was kind of rest that the Old Testament saint did not have like the New Testament saint.

You said:
( It should read Joshua and not Jesus as anyone who knows the Exodus story knows ...Joshua brought the tabernacle of witness into the territory of the gentiles ....exactly as later Jesus ( Joshua / Yashua ) was to bring the tabernacle of witness to the gentiles ...It was an amazing foreshadowing ( as there are many in the OT . ) Moses/ The Law/the Israelite's regarding the old covenant and temporal promised land and Jerusalem and Joshua / Yeshua / Jesus as a light to the gentiles into the eternal promised land and the new Jerusalem. ( We seek a city who's maker and builder is God . ) Brother ... Is this not wonderful ?????

I understand the parallel you are trying to make and it does work. But the real person who helped to give Joshua victory or rest for the land was Jesus and not Joshua. Jesus is God and no saint cannot have any victory or salvation without Jesus including the Old Testament saint.

Also, typifications of Christ are only wonderful if we trust the message of the Word of God as being true or trust worthy. We cannot pick and choose which words in our Bible is correct or false. We either accept all of what God's Word says or we are forced to think God makes mistakes (Which is not possible).

You said:
God's Word is perfect . He showed us just how perfect His Word is by submitting to the will of the Father even unto death .

Jesus says to the Father, thy Word is truth.
Jesus says abide in me and abide in my words.
The written Word of God has a symbiotic relationship with the Written Word of God.
They are both perfect.
The written Word is a reflection of the Living Word (Jesus).
For God's works are perfect.

You said:
I do not disagree with you regarding many of the new translations but be careful not to confuse the written word with the living Word .

I am very well aware of the differences. I can say the same for you, as well.

22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:22-25).

1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" (1 Peter 2:1-2).

1 Peter 2 still is talking about the communicated Word of God. For the milk of the Word is needed for us to grow. Jesus is not the milk of the Word!

You said:
It was the reason why Jesus was crucified by those who knew the written word but did not know the living word . As He said I am the Way , the Truth and the Life. Our faith is in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by WHO ? " And from a child thou has known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus . "

The Holy Scriptures (and not the holey scriptures) is how we know about Jesus Christ. No Scripture and no knowledge of Jesus so as to have faith. So faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. You cannot have faith in Jesus if there was no Scriptures. Not all faiths are the same. Some people try to follow another Jesus. But we follow the Jesus as described in the Bible and not as how somebody else writes about Him.

You said:
The Word of God is Our Lord Jesus Christ . May you grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and bear fruit unto His glory . That is my hope for myself as well . Peace .

I am in agreement that the Word of God is also Jesus Christ. But you cannot undermine the Written Word of God as being perfect, too. For it would undercut the perfection of our Lord Jesus Christ. For God's works are perfect.

NeedyFollower · Nov 20, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I am not saying that a person cannot be saved by reading a Modern Translation. However, when it comes to important doctrines or truths, the pure Word of God (KJV 1769) is more effective. The Trinity, the blood atonement, righteousness, Christology, are more fully and purely taught with no filters of man's false thinking.

So God's inspiration upon His Holy Word is not perfect? I disagree. Only one Bible is perfectly divinely inspired by God. Everything God does is perfect and without error.

While the Bible was written by the hands of men, ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Not all Bibles are profitable for doctrine because many Bibles remove or water down certain doctrines or truths.

The preface of the KJV is irrelevant. Just as God used men like Moses who did not think they were anything to take part in God's work, the Lord still used Moses (despite what he thought).

No. I am not quoting Tyndale. I am quoting God's Word (1769 KJV). The work that God provided with the 1769 KJV was a final work that was divinely inspired by God that is perfect.

No.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Some say that Joshua is translated as Jesus and they are the same name. But I am leaning towards the fact that Acts of the Apostles 7:45 is saying that this is in fact Jesus. How so? Because Jesus was the One who helped Joshua conquer the Gentiles.

Joshua 5:13-15

Jesus appeared to Joshua in the form of a man. This man was worshiped by Joshua (v. 14) and this man declared that Joshua was standing on Holy ground (v. 15)

We learn that Jesus gives plans to Joshua to help defeat his enemies at AI.

In another battle: Who took down the wall of Jericho? Was it Joshua or Jesus?

To see other appearances of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament go here:
Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.

As for Hebrews 4:8:

Jesus is the One who ultimately gives rest and it was not Joshua.
In Matthew 11:28 says that Jesus comes to give us rest within the New Testament.
This was kind of rest that the Old Testament saint did not have like the New Testament saint.

I understand the parallel you are trying to make and it does work. But the real person who helped to give Joshua victory or rest for the land was Jesus and not Joshua. Jesus is God and no saint cannot have any victory or salvation without Jesus including the Old Testament saint.

Also, typifications of Christ are only wonderful if we trust the message of the Word of God as being true or trust worthy. We cannot pick and choose which words in our Bible is correct or false. We either accept all of what God's Word says or we are forced to think God makes mistakes (Which is not possible).

Jesus says to the Father, thy Word is truth.
Jesus says abide in me and abide in my words.
The written Word of God has a symbiotic relationship with the Written Word of God.
They are both perfect.
The written Word is a reflection of the Living Word (Jesus).
For God's works are perfect.

I am very well aware of the differences. I can say the same for you, as well.

22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:22-25).

1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" (1 Peter 2:1-2).

1 Peter 2 still is talking about the communicated Word of God. For the milk of the Word is needed for us to grow. Jesus is not the milk of the Word!

The Holy Scriptures (and not the holey scriptures) is how we know about Jesus Christ. No Scripture and no knowledge of Jesus so as to have faith. So faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. You cannot have faith in Jesus if there was no Scriptures. Not all faiths are the same. Some people try to follow another Jesus. But we follow the Jesus as described in the Bible and not as how somebody else writes about Him.

I am in agreement that the Word of God is also Jesus Christ. But you cannot undermine the Written Word of God as being perfect, too. For it would undercut the perfection of our Lord Jesus Christ. For God's works are perfect.

Brother ..I do believe we agree in many points since we both agree with God. If I agree with myself, it is nothing since my opinions are wind and vanity. And as you know, I don't even get an opinion any more than a slave has an opinion ..nor does a dead man have an opinion . We put on Christ who is God's opinion. We are dead and only alive in Christ.
ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. When this was written, the Anglo's ,(english) later to become the anglo-saxons were unconverted barbarians still .
Timothy was told by our apostle Paul, that thou has known the Holy scriptures since your youth which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus . Again this was not the KJV about which Paul was telling Timothy so I trust by speaking the truth , I am not contradicting the truth. But understanding the Word by the Word via the Holy Spirit is more than an acknowledgment or agreement with written words. An agreement with a written word is not faith. An agreement with the Living Word is salvation .

What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" ( Micah 6:8 ) Can two walk together except they be agreed ? ( Amos 3:3 ) So in order to walk with God, I must agree with God ( and I do ) ...and I by His grace endeavor to walk humbly with Him for He is . " Learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart " ( Matthew 11:29 )
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit. ( Isiah 57:15 )

Sadly many people in my area of the country are die-hard King James only believers but yet , they seem to lack a meekness and are are given to pride...although I guess maybe that is a struggle for many . Whereas God gives grace to the humble, He opposes the proud. The proud can not learn, nor be wrong , nor repent.

The letter killeth but the spirit gives life. My concern is that many have put their salvation is KJV . And I ask you . What value has "a belief" in any orthodoxy teachings if it leaves a man unchanged in heart ? There are many through out history who " believed" all of the things you outlined regarding orthodox belief. Yet taking up arms and killing others would indicate that they never saw themselves as an enemy of God that through God's sacrifice , Jesus Christ , they were forgiven . And for that reason only .

As I mentioned in another post ..I like my KJV ( 1769 ) bible ..it is worn out ..front cover gone ..pages missing . But, in truth , there is no salvation in it . Only in the understanding of it.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2017

NeedyFollower said:
Brother ..I do believe we agree in many points since we both agree with God.

This can only be by the Word of God. A person can say they believe in God, but if it is not the God of the Bible, then they are believing in another god (little "g").

You said:
If I agree with myself, it is nothing since my opinions are wind and vanity. And as you know, I don't even get an opinion any more than a slave has an opinion ..nor does a dead man have an opinion .

Who said I was proposing an opinion? I believe Scripture clearly teaches that there is one Word of God that existed since it was written down. The Scriptures existed through out time perfectly in the languages of Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and (now) English.

For how do you determine a truth or doctrine within the Bible?
By the Bible of course!
See. What you cannot do is defend your position or belief with the Bible. The "Modern Translation View" or the "God's Word Exists in a Dead Language Only View" is not only illogical but it cannot be defended with Scripture. However, Scripture does teach that there is one written Word of God or one communicated message by which our faith in Christ is based upon.

God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); For the Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 17:11). In other words, if the Bereans thought the written Word was corrupt in some way they would have no way of really knowing if the spoken Word of God was true or not.

You said:
We put on Christ who is God's opinion. We are dead and only alive in Christ.
ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. When this was written, the Anglo's ,(english) later to become the anglo-saxons were unconverted barbarians still .

God's Word continued on into the English. It was preserved. If not, then you are off the hook. God cannot hold you accountable to a message that is corrupted in some way. For if you cannot trust one part of the Bible, then what makes you trust the rest of it? It is all in one package deal. One either accepts the whole of the Bible or they don't accept all of it. But our faith does not rest in a holey bible but a Holy Bible.

In fact, you wrote or quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in English to me and not the Greek. You have no idea what the Biblical Greek really says because you do not have an apostle Paul to confirm such a thing. You did not grow up speaking and writing Biblical Greek to truly know what it says. You are only guessing. The only way to truly know what the Greek says is by looking at your Bible in the language that you are familar with. God will hold you accountable to what you know in the English and not the Biblical Greek. For there is no real possible way for you to know if you are correct in your Biblical Greek interpretation or understanding. It's a dead language. But God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

You said:
Timothy was told by our apostle Paul, that thou has known the Holy scriptures since your youth which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus . Again this was not the KJV about which Paul was telling Timothy so I trust by speaking the truth , I am not contradicting the truth. But understanding the Word by the Word via the Holy Spirit is more than an acknowledgment or agreement with written words. An agreement with a written word is not faith. An agreement with the Living Word is salvation .

Yes. You are contradicting yourself by saying this. You cannot have faith in Jesus without the Holy Scriptures. Our faith comes from the Holy Scriptures. In fact, Jesus says for us to abide in Him and abide in His words. How do we know this? By the Holy Scriptures. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Whether you believe this to be Jesus or the written Word, you still have to come full circle to accepting the fact that this verse is based upon: (a) The Written Word and (b) Your English understanding of this verse and not the Greek. For you do not read the Bible in Biblical Greek.

You said:
What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" ( Micah 6:8 ) Can two walk together except they be agreed ? ( Amos 3:3 ) So in order to walk with God, I must agree with God ( and I do ) ...and I by His grace endeavor to walk humbly with Him for He is . " Learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart " ( Matthew 11:29 )
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit. ( Isiah 57:15 )

Again, you are quoting Scripture to defend your argument. Without Scripture there is no faith or salvation. If there was no written Word of God, or memorized Word of God you would not know of faith in Christ. So you cannot have salvation without the Scriptures. In fact, when Jesus says that you need to be born again of water he is talking about the Holy Scriptures. This means that you received the seed of the Word of God into your heart (like the parable of the sower) by accepting Christ and believing the gospel (Which is by the written Word of God).

You said:
Sadly many people in my area of the country are die-hard King James only believers but yet , they seem to lack a meekness and are are given to pride...although I guess maybe that is a struggle for many . Whereas God gives grace to the humble, He opposes the proud. The proud can not learn, nor be wrong , nor repent.

Well, your world view or experience is not the reality of things. There are plenty of people who are humble who read the KJV only. But in my experience in debating the KJV vs. Modern Translations I have been insulted and ridiculed. I have been called a bible worshiper, etc. This happened a lot at other Christian forum websites I was at. So both sides may be in the wrong, but the more I have observed, the more I see certain Christians saying that I cannot trust my KJV (of which my faith is based upon). But I did not receive the word of God as the words of men but in fact as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

You said:
The letter killeth but the spirit gives life. My concern is that many have put their salvation is KJV . And I ask you . What value has "a belief" in any orthodoxy teachings if it leaves a man unchanged in heart ? There are many through out history who " believed" all of the things you outlined regarding orthodox belief. Yet taking up arms and killing others would indicate that they never saw themselves as an enemy of God that through God's sacrifice , Jesus Christ , they were forgiven . And for that reason only .

And you think that having faith in Jesus Christ is not possible with a KJV Bible? That a person cannot be born again spiritually with a KJV Bible? So for hundreds of years before the Modern Translations came upon the scene, all people who used a KJV Bible for hundreds of years were unregenerate and not saved? That is absolutely silly, if that is what you are suggesting. For if a person put their faith in the KJV, they will believe in Jesus and walk with Him just as if they did so with the NIV or the NLT. I am saying that if a believer wants to deepen their walk with God, it is best they use the pure Word of God (the 1769 KJV). Why? Because the Modern Translations put the devil's name in them and they water down important doctrines and truths of our faith. They make changes for the worse and not for the better. Yes, the Modern Translations are easier to understand and I encourage people to use them so as to help update the hard to understand language sometimes in the KJV, but a person needs to have a final word of authority in a world language that exists today (So they are without excuse).

You said:
As I mentioned in another post ..I like my KJV ( 1769 ) bible ..it is worn out ..front cover gone ..pages missing . But, in truth , there is no salvation in it . Only in the understanding of it.

I am not so sure I believe you because you said that a person cannot put their faith in the KJV. This tells me that you do not believe that the KJV is the same Bible that you are reading or it is the same faith that you hold to. You appear to be against the KJV and yet you also say you love it. You are contradicting yourself, my friend.

sparow · Nov 21, 2017

Jason0047 said:
What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

Please see my other CF thread here on answers to various supposed contradictions in the KJV.
I have a few more answers to supposed contradictions for the KJV I would like to add later.

Anyways, may God bless you;
And may you please be well.

The Biblical languages do not have exact equivalent words in English or other languages; there are only approximations; the KJV is as close as it gets to a word for word translation and because of this the translation maintains the original rhythm. All translations begin with the translators interpreting the scripture; the reader of the translation interprets the interpretation.

NeedyFollower · Nov 21, 2017

Jason0047 said:
This can only be by the Word of God. A person can say they believe in God, but if it is not the God of the Bible, then they are believing in another god (little "g").

Who said I was proposing an opinion? I believe Scripture clearly teaches that there is one Word of God that existed since it was written down. The Scriptures existed through out time perfectly in the languages of Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and (now) English.

For how do you determine a truth or doctrine within the Bible?
By the Bible of course!
See. What you cannot do is defend your position or belief with the Bible. The "Modern Translation View" or the "God's Word Exists in a Dead Language Only View" is not only illogical but it cannot be defended with Scripture. However, Scripture does teach that there is one written Word of God or one communicated message by which our faith in Christ is based upon.

God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); For the Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 17:11). In other words, if the Bereans thought the written Word was corrupt in some way they would have no way of really knowing if the spoken Word of God was true or not.

God's Word continued on into the English. It was preserved. If not, then you are off the hook. God cannot hold you accountable to a message that is corrupted in some way. For if you cannot trust one part of the Bible, then what makes you trust the rest of it? It is all in one package deal. One either accepts the whole of the Bible or they don't accept all of it. But our faith does not rest in a holey bible but a Holy Bible.

In fact, you wrote or quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in English to me and not the Greek. You have no idea what the Biblical Greek really says because you do not have an apostle Paul to confirm such a thing. You did not grow up speaking and writing Biblical Greek to truly know what it says. You are only guessing. The only way to truly know what the Greek says is by looking at your Bible in the language that you are familar with. God will hold you accountable to what you know in the English and not the Biblical Greek. For there is no real possible way for you to know if you are correct in your Biblical Greek interpretation or understanding. It's a dead language. But God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Yes. You are contradicting yourself by saying this. You cannot have faith in Jesus without the Holy Scriptures. Our faith comes from the Holy Scriptures. In fact, Jesus says for us to abide in Him and abide in His words. How do we know this? By the Holy Scriptures. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Whether you believe this to be Jesus or the written Word, you still have to come full circle to accepting the fact that this verse is based upon: (a) The Written Word and (b) Your English understanding of this verse and not the Greek. For you do not read the Bible in Biblical Greek.

Again, you are quoting Scripture to defend your argument. Without Scripture there is no faith or salvation. If there was no written Word of God, or memorized Word of God you would not know of faith in Christ. So you cannot have salvation without the Scriptures. In fact, when Jesus says that you need to be born again of water he is talking about the Holy Scriptures. This means that you received the seed of the Word of God into your heart (like the parable of the sower) by accepting Christ and believing the gospel (Which is by the written Word of God).

Well, your world view or experience is not the reality of things. There are plenty of people who are humble who read the KJV only. But in my experience in debating the KJV vs. Modern Translations I have been insulted and ridiculed. I have been called a bible worshiper, etc. This happened a lot at other Christian forum websites I was at. So both sides may be in the wrong, but the more I have observed, the more I see certain Christians saying that I cannot trust my KJV (of which my faith is based upon). But I did not receive the word of God as the words of men but in fact as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

And you think that having faith in Jesus Christ is not possible with a KJV Bible? That a person cannot be born again spiritually with a KJV Bible? So for hundreds of years before the Modern Translations came upon the scene, all people who used a KJV Bible for hundreds of years were unregenerate and not saved? That is absolutely silly, if that is what you are suggesting. For if a person put their faith in the KJV, they will believe in Jesus and walk with Him just as if they did so with the NIV or the NLT. I am saying that if a believer wants to deepen their walk with God, it is best they use the pure Word of God (the 1769 KJV). Why? Because the Modern Translations put the devil's name in them and they water down important doctrines and truths of our faith. They make changes for the worse and not for the better. Yes, the Modern Translations are easier to understand and I encourage people to use them so as to help update the hard to understand language sometimes in the KJV, but a person needs to have a final word of authority in a world language that exists today (So they are without excuse).

I am not so sure I believe you because you said that a person cannot put their faith in the KJV. This tells me that you do not believe that the KJV is the same Bible that you are reading or it is the same faith that you hold to. You appear to be against the KJV and yet you also say you love it. You are contradicting yourself, my friend.

Brother , I hope you can "hear " what I am saying. Many Germans rejoiced when they received the Word of God in German as much as Luther was able to translate it . But they received what they were able once they were born again , enlightened , by the LIVING WORD. The Living Word bears witness to the written word but it still must be rightly divided or else we would still be waiting for an earthly king as the messiah. Or to your point , we would be following another Jesus.
Whether you believe me or not regarding my old KJV being used , marked and torn does not make it more the truth or less the truth . It is or it isn't and God Himself knows.
I do quote the Bible and like the Bereans , I do study to see if these things be so. This is how I by God's grace saw the parallel of Moses ( the Law ) yielding to a shadow of Christ ( Joshua = Grace and Truth ) in Acts 7:45 ..The Old Covenant promised land to the New promised land . A city who's maker and builder is God. If that was Jesus (the Christ ) in the flesh ( and I do not believe it was ) , then why did they not enter into their rest ? It was but a shadow of Christ who pointed to a better covenant . Though through and by the Holy Spirit , he did speak as God moved him as Joshua was a prophet . " Choose you this day , who you will serve , as for me and my house , we will serve the Lord. Just as Jesus and His house , serves the Lord.
People will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears . They will be turned into merchandise. Peter was a CONVERTED follower of Christ when he was called out by Paul for disassembling and forsaking the gentile believers. Peter got deceived ...carried away...led astray...and that was Peter ! Peter who knew the Lord in the flesh ..walked on water to the Lord ..saw His transfiguration....That is the reason that Paul says in Corinthians ( according to the KJV ) that the prophets are to speak two at a time and let the others judge ...because we are prone to blindness ..prone to traditions . And it keeps us humble to be wrong. ( Not that we are wrong in seeing God's great love for us in giving us His Son . And that is humbling to one like myself who lived his whole life in wickedness . I trust you were humbled when God spoke to you ?
Brother , my hope is not to knock the KJV or to make anyone doubt's God's word. I just want to make sure believers are trusting in the Living Word as is my hope. Maybe this is an unfruitful "rabbit trail " , I do not know. But I do believe that the overwhelming issue of " the church" is the love of this world ...it is not whether they believe the KJV to be the word of God.

ClementofA · Nov 21, 2017

"Please note if Jonah was in "hell," as the KJV has it, then Jonah escaped from a place where, according to modern theologians, there is no escape."

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

kenneth558 · Nov 24, 2017

I first confess that I have NOT read all the postings of this thread.

I do wish to caution participants that the OP seems to only want posts that contrast KJV with original language and with any other English renderings of the original writings, NOT whether the Bible in its original languages is credible and error-free otherwise...

That said, the strongest rebuke I would make against the KJV is the marriage-busting political-correctness evident in Ephesians 5:33. The original language tells wives to "fear" their husbands with a second witness correctly translated in I Peter 3:2. Most or all other English translations from the period correctly use the word "fear" in Ephesians 5:33, but it became popular after that time period for Bible translations to use the incorrect word "reverence". The word "reverence" is what Jesus used (Mark 12:6, Luke 20:13) in the parable of the vineyard owner musing that that vineyard husbandmen would "reverence" His Son (and possibly Hebrews 12:9) and is a different Greek word. I searched myself for any other KJV renderings of the Greek word for fear and found ALL other occurrences to be rendered to some form of fear and NONE of them to any form of reverence, which is a witness against the KJV deviating in Ephesians 5:33.

I do not accept the definition given in Strong's concordance and any other New Testament dictionaries to say that the Greek word for fear can also mean reverence, at least not without some evidence for it other than the faulty KJV translation in Ephesians 5:33. I've seen none.

Numerous English translations, mostly older ones, correctly have the word "fear" in Ephesians 5:33.

Please understand that my research is several years old and my memory could be faulty, so do your own research and correct me if I'm mistaken.

John Robie · Nov 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I believe the 1769 is the perfect Word of God. This is when the printing process was more perfected and whereby spelling was more standardized.

Here’s where your argument ultimately fails, though I am sure you will find away around it.

Your claim is that God can perfectly preserve His word, and that you have scripture to defend it. Yet how many revisions were made (and how many translations before that) before we “arrived” at this so-called perfect translation?

Many.

So the process at arriving at the “perfect” AV is not much different than arriving at the more modern (and I emphasize more modern since the AV is in itself a modern translation) translations. The main difference being that the more modern translations have better manuscript evidence.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 25, 2017

John Robie said:
Here’s where your argument ultimately fails, though I am sure you will find away around it.

Your claim is that God can perfectly preserve His word, and that you have scripture to defend it. Yet how many revisions were made (and how many translations before that) before we “arrived” at this so-called perfect translation?

Many.

So the process at arriving at the “perfect” AV is not much different than arriving at the more modern (and I emphasize more modern since the AV is in itself a modern translation) translations. The main difference being that the more modern translations have better manuscript evidence.

I believe God preserved His Word perfectly in 4 languages through out history.

1. Hebrew.
2. Greek.
3. Latin (Not the Catholic Latin Vulgate).
4. English.

Before 1769, God’s Word was preserved perfectly in Latin.

As for a Scriptural defense:
Just see my last recent post.

John Robie · Nov 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I believe God preserved His Word perfectly in 4 languages through out history.

1. Hebrew.
2. Greek.
3. Latin (Not the Catholic Latin Vulgate).
4. English.

Before 1769, God’s Word was preserved perfectly in Latin.

As for a Scriptural defense:
Just see my last recent post.

I’ll ignore the obvious flaw in your reasoning and ask this.
Which would be more reliable, the oldest Greek manuscripts or the more recent Latin manuscripts?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 25, 2017

John Robie said:
I’ll ignore the obvious flaw in your reasoning and ask this.
Which would be more reliable, the oldest Greek manuscripts or the more recent Latin manuscripts?

In reality, I believe the oldest Greek texts (that come from the Textus Recepus) are not currently available or known to the public.

Ultimately we don’t have a time machine to confirm the accuracy of the manuscripts most folks believe to be the Word of God. Most today believe that the corrupt older Greek texts that the Catholics use for their Bibles and for the Modern Translations today is the best texts. These Greek texts were favored by occultists Wescott and Hort’s Greek Translation that is the foundation for the majority of your Modern Translations.

I believe the Latin Bible that closely follows the KJV is the oldest known manuscripts the public knows about. What stays hidden beyond the public eye is another matter.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 25, 2017

kenneth558 said:
I first confess that I have NOT read all the postings of this thread.

I do wish to caution participants that the OP seems to only want posts that contrast KJV with original language and with any other English renderings of the original writings, NOT whether the Bible in its original languages is credible and error-free otherwise...

That said, the strongest rebuke I would make against the KJV is the marriage-busting political-correctness evident in Ephesians 5:33. The original language tells wives to "fear" their husbands with a second witness correctly translated in I Peter 3:2. Most or all other English translations from the period correctly use the word "fear" in Ephesians 5:33, but it became popular after that time period for Bible translations to use the incorrect word "reverence". The word "reverence" is what Jesus used (Mark 12:6, Luke 20:13) in the parable of the vineyard owner musing that that vineyard husbandmen would "reverence" His Son (and possibly Hebrews 12:9) and is a different Greek word. I searched myself for any other KJV renderings of the Greek word for fear and found ALL other occurrences to be rendered to some form of fear and NONE of them to any form of reverence, which is a witness against the KJV deviating in Ephesians 5:33.

I do not accept the definition given in Strong's concordance and any other New Testament dictionaries to say that the Greek word for fear can also mean reverence, at least not without some evidence for it other than the faulty KJV translation in Ephesians 5:33. I've seen none.

Numerous English translations, mostly older ones, correctly have the word "fear" in Ephesians 5:33.

Please understand that my research is several years old and my memory could be faulty, so do your own research and correct me if I'm mistaken.

So you think wives should actually fear their husbands? If so, I would say that this helps to prove my case that the KJV is the only Bible you should ultimately trust. For loving marriages in the Lord are not founded in fear.

brinny · Nov 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
So you think wives should actually fear their husbands? If so, I would say that this is one of the very reasons you should not make Modern Translations your final Word of authority.

Amen Jason, and thank you for fighting the good fight, and knowing your Bible stuff.

God bless you.

John Robie · Nov 25, 2017

Jason0047 said:
In reality, I believe the oldest Greek texts (that come from the Textus Recepus) are not currently available or known to the public.

Ultimately we don’t have a time machine to confirm the accuracy of the manuscripts most folks believe to be the Word of God. Most today believe that the corrupt older Greek texts that the Catholics use for their Bibles and for the Modern Translations today is the best texts. These Greek texts were favored by occultists Wescott and Hort’s Greek Translation that is the foundation for the majority of your Modern Translations.

I believe the Latin Bible that closely follows the KJV is the oldest known manuscripts the public knows about. What stays hidden beyond the public eye is another matter.

So you admit that your view isn’t based upon fact, but just what you believe. Such as...

“I believe God preserved His Word perfectly in 4 languages through out history.

1. Hebrew.
2. Greek.
3. Latin (Not the Catholic Latin Vulgate).
4. English.”

There’s no support for this.

You have a conclusion, and then you’ve found “evidence” to support it. That’s the opposite way of going about it.

What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

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