The book of Genesis...

joshua 1 9

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"The Earth is thought to have been formed about 4.6 billion years ago by collisions in the giant disc-shaped cloud of material that also formed the Sun. Gravity slowly gathered this gas and dust together into clumps that became asteroids and small early planets called planetesimals."

Carl Sagan use to talk about how we are "star stuff": "We're made of star stuff," Sagan famously stated in one episode. His statement sums up the fact that the carbon, nitrogen and oxygen atoms in our bodies, as well as atoms of all other heavy elements, were created in previous generations of stars over 4.5 billion years ago."

I prefer Neil Degrasse who has taken over for Sagan


 
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GBTG

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From my perspective you are both partially correct and both partial incorrect... Yes the water on the Earth is older than the sun which is biblical. But the water that was the Sea is Genesis 1:10, if God is perfect why does he he need to create something more than once? Unless he is talking about two different things?

Direct English translation from the Hebrew:

Genesis 1:1-2 “in·beginning, Elohim (God), created, the·heavens, and, the·earth, and·the·earth, she-became, chaos, and·vacancy, and·darkness, over, surfaces-of, abyss, and·spirit-of, Elohim, vibrating, over, surfaces-of, the·waters.”

Genesis 1:6 "and·he-is-saying, Elohim, he-shall-become, atmosphere, in·midst-of, the·waters, and·he-shall-become, separating, between, waters, to·waters"

Genesis 1:9-10 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let dry land appear and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth: and the gathering of waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good"

I believe God is describing a sea of atoms in Genesis 1:1-2, as they are vibrating, vast, and abyss. The depth of the whole of the Universe filled with all atoms or matter until God starts to mold the universe (Second day of creation, logical).

I believe the separation of"waters" in Genesis 1:6 is the description of Gravity, (separates gases/liquids/solids) which creates atmosphere. How can you have an Earth prior to Genesis 1:6 if there is no atmosphere (no gravity)? This is the second "day" of creation.

Genesis 1:9-10 is the actual Earth and Seas... named properly by God. Again the bible does not support a 24hr. day! At best you could state the second "day" of creation if you invoke the Shekinah Glory of God, if you can forgo the logic problem of the first "day" of creation. The second problem is that the sun and stars are not created until the 4th "day" of creation. So what then is the first "day" of creation describing as time?

As for the creating of our sun and its planets there are two well regarded scientific theories/models on this topic. Both have tremendous flaws. The first makes it impossible for the creation of any moons not just the moon of Earth. The second accounts for moons but does not allow for any gas giant planets. The problems therefore are obvious and there is a long way to go for either to be reasonably accurate, as long as scientist ignore the possibility that planets can form without a sun.

Google "rogue planets" and you will get quite a few that have been discovered, that should not be possible with man's current understanding of cosmology.

If you agree with current science dating than the Earths water is older than the sun and it is accorded in the Bible. If you agree with the Bible you cannot state that the water in Genesis 1:1-2 is the Sea, as God does not name the Sea until the next "day" in creation. Land and Seas cannot form without Gravity, and gravity needs atoms on which to act... logical. If the Sea's are not named by God until the 2 day of creation, what is all the "water" describing previous to this?

Warm regards, GBTG



 
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omega2xx

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That is what pops up when you do a google search. Perhaps you should talk to google about how their search engine works. I do not have time to play around with it. The point was made that water on the earth is actually older than the sun. This is pretty much what the Bible says is that we have water on the earth before we have light. FIRST God said let there be light then he separated the light from the darkness.

What is the significance of having water 3 days before we have the sun?

We need to have a point in time and a place. We are looking at the heavens and the earth in the beginning before there was light, before there was a Sun. This is the plan simple literal reading of the Bible. Simple enough a child can understand.

The point is the beginning of creation of the universe. The place is earth. We had light before we had the sun.

Gen 1 "1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters 3 Then God said,"Let there be light"; and there was light. 4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.…"

Earth Has Water Older Than the Sun


What does it matter if the water is older than the sun. Both are needed to make the creation very good.
 
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omega2xx

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"The Earth is thought to have been formed about 4.6 billion years ago by collisions in the giant disc-shaped cloud of material that also formed the Sun. Gravity slowly gathered this gas and dust together into clumps that became asteroids and small early planets called planetesimals."

Carl Sagan use to talk about how we are "star stuff": "We're made of star stuff," Sagan famously stated in one episode. His statement sums up the fact that the carbon, nitrogen and oxygen atoms in our bodies, as well as atoms of all other heavy elements, were created in previous generations of stars over 4.5 billion years ago."

I prefer Neil Degrasse who has taken over for Sagan



To bad Sagan didn't offer any evidence for his wild speculations.
 
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joshua 1 9

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To bad Sagan didn't offer any evidence for his wild speculations.
They use spectrographic analysis to measure the wavelengths. Every element that makes up a star shows up as a different color. I was a theater major in college and worked on the lighting crew. So we studied the color theories and the physics of light. My son knows more about math and physics than I do, but I know enough to get by and do my job. We do not question the science to much at NASA because if they do not get it right people die. So they do all they can to get it right and they do not tamper with the results. It does not look good when a rocket blows up and all the school children have to watch their science heros die. In fact I have a niece right now in Texas that has a full scholarship from NASA. They are going to pay for her PHd in chemical engineering. Also I have friends that work as techies for NASA and they have been through their training for various jobs that they have available.
 
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joshua 1 9

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What is the significance of having water 3 days before we have the sun?
IF you want to meet your friend then you have to have an exact place and a exact time to meet them. The Bible is exact or literal, this is what a Paradigm is. In this verse we are talking about the fourth day. That gives us the time. We are talking about the firmament. God created light (Sun) in the first day. On the fourth day he was doing a work in the firmament or the atmosphere. The stars and the sun had already been there for a long time. The earth is maybe 4.6 billion years old and the Universe is more like 13 billion years old. For the universe a day is like a billion years.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I prefer Christ, who was actually there when the Father created the heavens and the earth.
He was more then there. It was through Him that the world was made. John 1:3 "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Not everything is in the Bible though. We have natural evidence and artifacts that God has provided for us and Science is given the job of gathering that evidence. Of course that does not mean we are obligated to any of their opinions.
 
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GBTG

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The reason water being older than the Earth is significant, is that the Bible stated this many millennia prior to science being able to prove it. Therefore what is the possibility that Moses would know this? He could not have! This is proof that God is the author of Genesis, he has described what he created to Moses who wrote it down. Science just happened to confirm the timing of one of God's creations. I believe that is significant and worth understanding. I believe all of science is proof of the Creator.

Einstein for instance came up with the theory of relativity. Did Einstein invent or create this or merely discover what God had created, to whom should go the credit?

Warm regards, GBTG
 
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omega2xx

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IF you want to meet your friend then you have to have an exact place and a exact time to meet them.

Genesis is not about meeting a friend.

The Bible is exact or literal, this is what a Paradigm is. In this verse we are talking about the fourth day. That gives us the time. We are talking about the firmament. God created light (Sun) in the first day. On the fourth day he was doing a work in the firmament or the atmosphere.

Okay, but you still haven't told me what the significance of the first and forth day is.

The stars and the sun had already been there for a long time.

How do you know that?

The earth is maybe 4.6 billion years old and the Universe is more like 13 billion years old. For the universe a day is like a billion years.

How do you know that?
 
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omega2xx

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They use spectrographic analysis to measure the wavelengths. Every element that makes up a star shows up as a different color. I was a theater major in college and worked on the lighting crew. So we studied the color theories and the physics of light. My son knows more about math and physics than I do, but I know enough to get by and do my job. We do not question the science to much at NASA because if they do not get it right people die. So they do all they can to get it right and they do not tamper with the results. It does not look good when a rocket blows up and all the school children have to watch their science heros die. In fact I have a niece right now in Texas that has a full scholarship from NASA. They are going to pay for her PHd in chemical engineering. Also I have friends that work as techies for NASA and they have been through their training for various jobs that they have available.

Math can't prove the age of the universe and neither can using a spectograph.
 
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GBTG

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The significance of the first "day" of creation is nuclear fusion, atoms, and temperature. All earthen material what we would call the physical.

The 4th "day" is the start of time, seasons, ect. as the sun, moon, and all the starts are created. If this is when God says time starts how can you have a 24hr "day" prior to this logically?

Warm regards, GBTG

PS Math can show age of the universe if one looks at speed and distance. If an object moving at x speed, travels x distance, we know the rate at which it traveled. If you apply this to the universe you get a rough average of distance traveled its way older that ~6-10k years for our solar system to be where it is, or do you presume our whole solar system is not moving?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Genesis is not about meeting a friend.
It is about meeting Jesus. The wise men knew when and where the place and the time when Jesus would enter the world. They were there to greet Him with gifts. Now the bride needs to be ready for the Bridegroom. The Bible warns us about those who are NOT ready when Jesus comes for them. Just as there is a time and a place for the first coming, there will be a time and a place for the second and the third coming.
 
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omega2xx

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It is about meeting Jesus. The wise men knew when and where the place and the time when Jesus would enter the world. They were there to greet Him with gifts. Now the bride needs to be ready for the Bridegroom. The Bible warns us about those who are NOT ready when Jesus comes for them. Just as there is a time and a place for the first coming, there will be a time and a place for the second and the third coming.

Genesis does snot tell us when and where to meet Jesus.

I ask you how you know the age of the earth is 4.6 billion years old. You did not respond.
 
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omega2xx

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The significance of the first "day" of creation is nuclear fusion, atoms, and temperature. All earthen material what we would call the physical.

The 4th "day" is the start of time, seasons, ect. as the sun, moon, and all the starts are created. If this is when God says time starts how can you have a 24hr "day" prior to this logically?

Warm regards, GBTG

PS Math can show age of the universe if one looks at speed and distance. If an object moving at x speed, travels x distance, we know the rate at which it traveled. If you apply this to the universe you get a rough average of distance traveled its way older that ~6-10k years for our solar system to be where it is, or do you presume our whole solar system is not moving?

Pass the mustard, it will make that bolony taste better.

Objects moving in space is not evidence of its age. It is also not evidence for the BB, or that the universe is expanding.
 
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GBTG

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Pass the mustard, it will make that bolony taste better.

Objects moving in space is not evidence of its age. It is also not evidence for the BB, or that the universe is expanding.

Well your overwhelming proof to the contrary has made your point very clear! Where did I state big Bang? Any person with a telescope can tell you observably that things are moving in space. If, that we can apply simple measurements to that movement is beyond you, there is nothing further to discuss. I can make this no simpler for you to understand. If you want to continue to discredit any measurement presented then we are at in impasse, and there is nothing to be benefited from this conversation.

Regards, GBTG
 
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Edison Trent

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Before posting dates that old you need to do some research into the problems with radio-metric dating. Every one know the sun is only 4.3275 years old, and most of the things in our universe, including the sun can't be dated.

The sun is 4.3 years old, do what?
 
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