Why Jeremiah 31:31-34 is YESHUA'S NEW Covenant

Doug Melven

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Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--

The first covenant was not faultless because IT had anything wrong with it... GOD IS THE AUTHOR therefore it was PERFECT. The covenant was found not faultless because the PEOPLE couldn't abide... which is why verse 8 above (in red) says the fault was found in THEM not it.
The 10 words as God gave them were perfect. As Paul said, "The law is holy, just and good".
But God found fault with it because we were faulty and could not keep it.
Writing words on our heart that were written on stone does not make them any easier to keep.
It is still a standard that we have no hope of measuring up to.
But if we follow the Spirit, all of the law will be fulfilled. I just have to walk in the Spirit and follow Him.
In order to know His Voice I must Know His Word in order to test the spirits.
 
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Ken Rank

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The 10 words as God gave them were perfect. As Paul said, "The law is holy, just and good".
But God found fault with it because we were faulty and could not keep it.

If the words are perfect then how can fault be found in it? Don't be so dogmatic, Doug, respectfully... to not see the contradiction you just made. The book of Hebrews does not say "God found fault in it," it says, "God found fault with THEM," the PEOPLE. They are who did not do what He asked them to do... so He removes the text from the stone and places it where He commanded Israel to keep it and they couldn't, on the heart.
 
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Doug Melven

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The book of Hebrews does not say "God found fault in it
I didn't say it had a fault. God did. Hebrews 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
 
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Ken Rank

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I didn't say it had a fault. God did. Hebrews 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Read verses 7 and 8... it is made clear the fault was THEM. Your position, even though you are trying to justify it... is that God who is perfect made a perfect law that had fault. That is contradictory and needs to be thought out better.
 
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Doug Melven

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Read verses 7 and 8... it is made clear the fault was THEM. Your position, even though you are trying to justify it... is that God who is perfect made a perfect law that had fault. That is contradictory and needs to be thought out better.
The law was perfect. But because we are imperfect, we could not keep a perfect law.
God found fault with it because we could not keep it. Therefore He made a new covenant.
Under the Old Covenant, you could have your sins forgiven, but you could not be made righteous.
So He gave us a New Covenant in which He said I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
 
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Ken Rank

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The law was perfect. But because we are imperfect, we could not keep a perfect law.
God found fault with it because we could not keep it.

For the 4th and last time... verse 8 says God found fault with THEM... people... not IT. That is what the bible says and you keep saying something it does not say. If God is perfect, and the law was perfect (because He is perfect and He is the author of the Law) then nothing Israel did made the Law imperfect or faulty. They were expected to keep it on their own hearts... and they didn't... the fault is with THEM which is why Hebrews said "having found fault with THEM." It is black and white.... don't allow your own bias to blind you to things that are plainly stated. Whatever you end up believing, fine... but don't keep saying "it" when the bible clearly says "them!"

Be blessed... we really have no reason to continue on this topic.
 
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Doug Melven

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For the 4th and last time... verse 8 says God found fault with THEM... people... not IT. That is what the bible says and you keep saying something it does not say. If God is perfect, and the law was perfect (because He is perfect and He is the author of the Law) then nothing Israel did made the Law imperfect or faulty. They were expected to keep it on their own hearts... and they didn't... the fault is with THEM which is why Hebrews said "having found fault with THEM." It is black and white.... don't allow your own bias to blind you to things that are plainly stated. Whatever you end up believing, fine... but don't keep saying "it" when the bible clearly says "them!"

Be blessed... we really have no reason to continue on this topic.
Yes, verse 8 says He found fault with them (us), therefore He said the first covenant was not faultless in verse 7.
 
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Ken Rank

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Yes, verse 8 says He found fault with them (us), therefore He said the first covenant was not faultless in verse 7.
It is the people who are at fault... not the perfect God's inspired text. Thanks for the conversation... be blessed.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not really, may I share a thought?

There is really two ways I can go with this, maybe best to do both.

1. They aren't really the 10 Commandments, there are 10.... "words." I know, "us Christians were raised knowing the 10 commandments." And my reply, "I know, but in some places "commandment" is a bad word to have used as a translation. For example...

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

The covenant IS the 10 commandments, that is the text... the part Israel would agree on to be in covenant with God. And I can see that it plainly states "commandments" in the English. But here is the thing, the word for commandment there is davar (H1697) and it means "a word; by implication a matter (as spoken of) of thing; adverbially a cause." Even in the Septuagint (Greek OT translated in 300BC) we have the word rhema which is "that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word." It isn't the 10 commandments... it is the 10 Words... the 10 spoken things and they are more matter of fact than they are commands. In other words, it more like God saying, "You will not steal" rather than, "thou shalt not steal or else" which is how we view it even though that isn't how we say it. It really is more of a statement of fact, like "my people won't steal."

2. But this deals more directly with your comment as, of course, The 10 aren't the whole law.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

Paul uses 1 of the 10 as his example but the Law that revealed sin was the WHOLE LAW. If you think I am bonkers on this... just ask yourself.. where in the 10 does it say that a man shouldn't lay with a man as he would a woman? That is sin, it is even an abomination... but not in the 10 so it took more than the 10 to reveal all sin. If Paul has said, "I would not have known sin except through the 10 Words" then you would have a point AND you do to a small point anyway as breaking any of the 10 is sin. :) But it just doesn't stop at the 10. Sin is defined as acting in opposition to the will of God. If He says "don't do ____" and we do, that is sin. If He says "you will do ____" and we don't, that is also sin.

And that all goes beyond the 10... is my main point.

Absolutely, and I agree.

I like the way you pointed out that it is not thou shalt not, or else. Yes, that is how I saw the Old Covenant, and the other: my people will not do _______ is how I see the New Covenant. The difference being, the Holy Spirit dwells inside NT believers, but was not available to the OT believer, only to prophets, leaders and kings. And, yes, I agree the other abominations are also sins and make up the LAW. You see, I see a difference between the Law and the Covenant. I see the Covenant as being the Ten Commandments, Exodus 34:28. And I see the Law as covering all unrighteousness, including the things of the flesh like brawling, fornication, homosexuality, drunkenness, etc.

Jesus and His giving of the Holy Spirit to each one is essentially the main difference in the Old and New regarding righteousness.

I see other things that were in the Old, but are now done away with because of we now have Jesus, the substance of shadow. Those would be the Sabbath, Holy Days, and circumcision, and sacrifices.

And because of the disobedience of some of the Jews, the gospel has now gone to the Gentiles, making unclean meats, now clean. They may not be healthy, but are no longer a sin.

But, and this may sound patronizing - I don't mean it that way, but I, personally, see nothing wrong in Messianics and Seventh-day Adventists to keep kosher, and to keep the Sabbath. I think we are all on the same page when it comes to sacrifice...
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Loads of insight in your post, century lady,and I agree no harm in observing any rules that make one feel better,as long as they don’t attach any type of rule-keeping to their salvation....agreed?
 
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Ken Rank

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Absolutely, and I agree.

I like the way you pointed out that it is not thou shalt not, or else. Yes, that is how I saw the Old Covenant, and the other: my people will not do _______ is how I see the New Covenant.

My point is the Hebrew for the Sinai covenant is also "my people will not do ___."

The difference being, the Holy Spirit dwells inside NT believers, but was not available to the OT believer, only to prophets, leaders and kings.

I disagree with the "only prophets, leaders and kings" comment as I can show more than just prophets, leaders and kings operating in the Spirit. But instead of focusing there, I want to focus here...

2 Cor 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as an earnest.

2 Cor 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as an earnest.

This is not earnest as in "an earnest effort," this is earnest as in a deposit, a down payment. The underlying word is arrhabōn which means "a pledge, something given in advance as a deposit; downpayment." This is literally, "10% down, the rest upon his return." We Christians speak like we are engulfed in the Spirit when the wording is clear that while what we have is special, it marks us, comforts and guides us... teaches us... it is still only something to hold us over until his return when we get even more.
 
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1stcenturylady

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My point is the Hebrew for the Sinai covenant is also "my people will not do ___."



I disagree with the "only prophets, leaders and kings" comment as I can show more than just prophets, leaders and kings operating in the Spirit. But instead of focusing there, I want to focus here...

2 Cor 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as an earnest.

2 Cor 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as an earnest.

This is not earnest as in "an earnest effort," this is earnest as in a deposit, a down payment. The underlying word is arrhabōn which means "a pledge, something given in advance as a deposit; downpayment." This is literally, "10% down, the rest upon his return." We Christians speak like we are engulfed in the Spirit when the wording is clear that while what we have is special, it marks us, comforts and guides us... teaches us... it is still only something to hold us over until his return when we get even more.

The "earnest" we have now is great! I look forward for more!
 
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BobRyan

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Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Which is a great place to NOT find "Not like the LAW that I gave them about not taking my name in vain"

The Gospel is not about ways to get by with taking God's name in vain or to not feel as if it is "still a sin"
 
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BobRyan

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Being saved by grace means being saved via the "ONE Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 -- and that means the New Covenant where sins are forgiven and the heart is changed.

Please explain the definition for the term "My Law" as referenced by Jeremiah in the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33

"This IS the New Covenant I will make.... I will write My LAW on their mind and heart"

Some have attempted to spin-doctor the text of Jer 31:31-33 away from its obvious meaning -- and yet we have these irrefutable facts.

1. No text says "not the LAW that I gave at Sinai"
2. No text says that Jeremiah did not know the TEN Commandments were in the LAW of God
3. No scholars claim that the LAW of God known to Jeremiah did not include God's Ten Commandments

Answer to the question above is for certain that: Jeremiah and Paul were in agreement on that point according to Acts 24

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets

The moral law of God can be found in what Moses wrote -- so obvious that even BOTH sides of the Bible-Sabbath vs Sunday debate agree that all TEN of God's TEN commandments are included in the moral LAW of God (not ceremonial or civil law) written on the heart.

A few examples of the Law of Moses - to see just why both sides admit that it is written on the heart

Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Ex 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain"
Ex 20:12 "Honor your parents"

According to the Gospel teaching of Christ - it is a mistake to preach against the LAW of Moses according to Christ in Mark 7:6-12

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

"Moses said" = "Commandment of God" = "Word of God"

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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BobRyan......in light of what Paul says in regard to “weak brothers” (those that fret over what to eat What days to worship,etc) who do you consider in this thread would be closest to Paul’s definition...myself and Doug or you and your supporters? Thank you and I hope you have enjoyed your turkey day
 
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Absolutely, and I agree.

I like the way you pointed out that it is not thou shalt not, or else. Yes, that is how I saw the Old Covenant, and the other: my people will not do _______ is how I see the New Covenant. The difference being, the Holy Spirit dwells inside NT believers, but was not available to the OT believer, only to prophets, leaders and kings. And, yes, I agree the other abominations are also sins and make up the LAW. You see, I see a difference between the Law and the Covenant. I see the Covenant as being the Ten Commandments, Exodus 34:28. And I see the Law as covering all unrighteousness, including the things of the flesh like brawling, fornication, homosexuality, drunkenness, etc.

Jesus and His giving of the Holy Spirit to each one is essentially the main difference in the Old and New regarding righteousness.

I see other things that were in the Old, but are now done away with because of we now have Jesus, the substance of shadow. Those would be the Sabbath, Holy Days, and circumcision, and sacrifices.

And because of the disobedience of some of the Jews, the gospel has now gone to the Gentiles, making unclean meats, now clean. They may not be healthy, but are no longer a sin.

But, and this may sound patronizing - I don't mean it that way, but I, personally, see nothing wrong in Messianics and Seventh-day Adventists to keep kosher, and to keep the Sabbath. I think we are all on the same page when it comes to sacrifice...
I also see nothing wrong with them living like they desire. What I do see wrong is the effort to force others into their life style without justification in relationship to God.
 
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Loads of insight in your post, century lady,and I agree no harm in observing any rules that make one feel better,as long as they don’t attach any type of rule-keeping to their salvation....agreed?
Or their self imposed rule keeping to mine.
 
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Being saved by grace means being saved via the "ONE Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 -- and that means the New Covenant where sins are forgiven and the heart is changed.

Please explain the definition for the term "My Law" as referenced by Jeremiah in the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33

"This IS the New Covenant I will make.... I will write My LAW on their mind and heart"

Some have attempted to spin-doctor the text of Jer 31:31-33 away from its obvious meaning -- and yet we have these irrefutable facts.

1. No text says "not the LAW that I gave at Sinai"
2. No text says that Jeremiah did not know the TEN Commandments were in the LAW of God
3. No scholars claim that the LAW of God known to Jeremiah did not include God's Ten Commandments
It's amazing that you can say verse 32 doesn't refer to the ten commandments. It's amazing that you can say the new covenant is the same law in the face of verse 32. Some of us have read the whole Bible and know Israel was punished for not observing the sabbath(s) inclusively. The 4th commandment is about it. While Israel wasn't punished for the 7th day, they were punished for not observing the sabbath (meaning all required sabbaths).
 
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